Ok but you should slow down. The electric company for one thing can not turn off service in winter when it's your heat source (at least not here in the northeast). Also, they dont threaten to terminate service unless you're over $100 in unpaid balance forward. Further, before they DO threaten to terminate, they offer you a payment plan which is usually pretty affordable. I've been there so know these things.

Maybe they did this with ALL of those examples too, but it doesn't mention it if so.

if they are running an illegal business you would have complained and they would have been shut down. so i doubt it is illegal if they are still doing it.

People don't get thrown out of a house after two months of late payments.

It's made to seem like they got a bill, didn't pay it, and got kicked out.

I'm sure there's more backstory there. They pretty much always want the money more than they want to take on a property.

you defend property tax but refuse obamacare - you americans are weird sometimes :upsidedow

Okay, we get it. Taxes are evil and should not be a part of life. But since they are part of life, accept it and discuss real options or start a revolution.

Just my opinion but you might be over reacting. That is nothing.

I'm not sure where you got any of that, but none of that follows typical protocol.

A $500 sewer bill is probably a year, quite possibly more depending on where she lives. We have a year right there. Then we have liens that need to be applied, that takes time. Then we have all of the other legal crap that would have needed to take place, that takes more time. Then we have the auction, that takes more time.

You: Let's ramble on and on and do nothing.
Me: Do something about your gripe or shut up.

The reason we have property tax is to pay for schools. Since the people that have kids can't be expected, for some reason, to pay for their own offsprings education property owners are stuck with the bill.

I pay over $1,000 a month to educate the children of others.

Also this isn't a hidden tax. Anyone purchasing real estate knows there is a yearly tax on it. Not paying would make those that do pay have to cover their shortage. How is that fair?

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There are also usually ways to get a property tax deferment in most states if I'm not mistaken. And I'm SURE with city and county bills like sewage and water, you can work things out in some way as long as you communicate with them.

Basically I'm just trying to say that these places WANT their money, they don't actively seek to kick old people from their homes over $400. The old lady probably didn't know what the heck was going on or who can guess.

As far as my utility and phone, what I said is totally accurate but obviously they're specific to those companies and my own state. So I don't think we've disagreed on anything so far.

However many times she was late... it was $400 something dollars on a sewer bill. Not state taxes, not federal taxes, not property taxes, but a utility bill. How can anyone lose a home over a utility bill?

That is like losing your home because you are late on your internet bill, even if you are a few months behind. Not paying a utility bill should not lead to the loss of your home. What happens when you don't pay other utilities? They turn them off. They don't take your home. Well, I guess they do now.

Sorry, we know you are old and can't make ends meet right now due to inflation or whatever reason you want to give us that your government legitimately caused, but you're three months late on your phone bill, so we're taking your home.

Today it's $400 behind on a sewer bill. Maybe when you're 80 years old it will be $40 behind on your electric bill. Maybe by the time your son is 80, they will just imprison people for such crimes. This shit is a slippery slope.

Might have been a county assessed sewer bill for maintenance of the sewer lines. Traditionally sewer is part of your water bill and non payment leads to disconnect of services only.

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So according to you no one needs to pay their utilities ever again. Or any other bill for that matter. Everyone can now just default on all their bills and the worst thing that happens is that your utilities gets turn off.

It doesn't work like that. If you fail to pay your bill, the service gets disconnected. Keep in mind that they don't disconnect you until your three or four months later. Then they move on to the next step, which is collections. Then - and at this point it's been nearly a year since the first late notice - they move on to legal filings, and sue you in court. That's another six month process. At this point the original $400 now includes interest, late fees, additional costs for collection attempts, and now attorney fees.

In the mean time you have your local city government, which provides us with sewage. In my case it's sewage, garbage, and water - All for $80 a month. My local city government is going broke, laying off police officers, firemen, closing down fire stations and police offices, and slashed the medical benefits of the very people who provide me with my sewage, water, and garbage. But in your world it's not important for this person not to pay for their service and then cost the local city government even more expenses...

And then you bitch about how the city is providing less.

maybe cities should set up a work program so some can work off some of their city bills. I'm always seeing local stories of people complaining that the city is allowing lots to become overgrown and filled with trash

The politicians in your local governments, just like in the federal government, have driven the city into bankruptcy. These extremes you're seeing now, such as losing a home due to a utility bill, are the result of mismanagement and corruption at the local, state, and federal levels of government. They are the real reasons people are subjected to such absurd collections.

Beyond all that, to actually agree with someone losing a home over a $400 bill is horrible and makes you the dick you've already made yourself out to be in this thread. :321GFY

At a time when 1 in 7 Americans is receiving food stamps the idea that someone can lose their home over $400. is kind of absurd. There are way to many organizations, church charities, etc to allow this to happen. The old lady must have been ignoring a shit load of communications asking for a resolution of the problem.

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That's the national average some states are much worse ..... "Mississippi reported the largest share of its population relying on food stamps, more than 21%. One in five residents in New Mexico, Oregon, Tennessee and Washington DC also were food-stamp recipients."

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I think you guys are getting sidetracked from the original post.
Yes, millions of people game the system.

That's what happens when you have a govt. handout (or any kind of handout)...people will take full advantage of it.

But my feeling is that when this country was founded there were certain ideals. One of them was a man's right to live his life unencumbered by the govt.

Of course the govt. has slowly over time written laws to change that. Hell, they even ammended the constitution in 1913 (the sixteenth ammendment) to give themselves the right to tax us on our income!!!

NEVER owning your own land and property (because of property tax) is one of those things that to me is outrageous

My belief is that if Thomas Jefferson and George Washington were somehow brought to the present in some time machine...they would start hanging politicians from the nearest tree.

And you Germans are pretty weird if you think one has anything to do with the other. For beginners, no one must own a home.

You are an idiot.

Do you not understand this?

I think the slippery slope begins with believing what you read on GFY is the whole story. No one is losing their home over a utility bill. :2 cents:

depending on where you live, if your home isn't worth that much money you might not have to pay any property tax.

Property tax exemption

A homestead exemption is most often only on a fixed monetary amount, such as the first 50,000 dollars of the assessed value. The remainder is taxed at the normal rate. In this case, a home valued at 150,000 would then only be taxed on 100,000; a home valued at 75,000 would only be taxed on 25,000.

The exemption is generally intended to make the property tax a progressive tax. In some places, the exemption is paid for with a local or state (or equivalent unit) sales tax.

The homestead exemption sales tax (HEST) in some places has been criticized for not exempting groceries, thus the poor end up paying some of their food money to subsidize those who can already afford their own homes. Since the poor typically rent, neither they nor their landlords get an exemption.
Examples

California - Exempts the first $7,000 of residential homestead from property taxes.
Georgia - Allows a 1% HEST, but it is only done in a few counties. None exempt groceries, but all must exempt prescription drugs.
Oklahoma - Allows a $1000 deduction of the assessed valuation if owners file for homestead exemption with the local county clerk. This is about $75 to $125 of savings per year.
Texas - Allows a deduction equal to 20% of house value. Additional exemptions are available for county taxes, people over 65 and people who are disabled.[4]
Florida homestead exemption - Allows a $50,000 exemption for the value of property which is assessed a property tax. Furthermore, increases in assessment shall not exceed the lower of: a) 3% of assessed value from prior year; or b) percentage change in CPI.[5]
Boulder, Colorado - Allows a 50% deduction for up to the first $200,000 (so $100,000 exemption) for seniors (over age 65) who have lived in their property for ten consecutive years.
Louisiana Homestead Exemption - Exempts the first $75,000[citation needed] of residential homestead from local property taxes.
Rhode Island Homestead Exemption- Exempts the first 20% of home value from property taxes.
Michigan Principal Residence Exemption - Exempts the homeowner from paying the operating millage of local school districts.

We all feel better when we can point a finger at someone and say "It's your fault" but I don't believe that's the case with local governments. In very (VERY) simple terms, city revenue is down, costs are skyrocketing, and there's more of a drain than ever on local city government resources.

It's very simple - Don't pay your bills, eventually they come after you. It doesn't matter if it's $400 or $40k.

I'm also guessing they are making this look minor. Maybe it was $400 in sewer bills, but this person also owes $15k in property taxes or something.

still, the people most likely to be affected by this kind of thing are the elderly, on fixed incomes, with no family to help.

so all you guys saying "pay your bills fuckin deadbeats" are basically saying you despise poor old folks who cant pay their bills and are afraid or unable to ask for help.

sounds about right, consider the names and political inclinations of those saying that.

The help is usually available for the asking. In some states...if not all states...the elderly can...based upon income...receive life time deferments for property taxes. In addition some states...if not all states...offer assistance for utilities etc.

you and I know the help is available for the asking. But, as you also well know, that help is limited, and comes with plenty of strings attached.

but does an old lady? how about an old guy too proud to ask for help? and what do they do when the help runs out?

attacking 80 and 90 year olds for not knowing that help is SOMETIMES available seems morally questionable. when was the last time you personally helped somebody in that situation?

oh right - government is supposed to provide that help - or maybe the church right - certainly not you.

when was the last time you said that government should have more money to help seniors?

Technically they forced all of us into a "retirement plan" called Social Security.

The scheme was that people would start getting it at 65. And most people didn't live much past that age. So they paid in more than they ever got back.

But now...the govt. dipped it's greedy hands into the pot and spent the money coming in (they never made the "lock box" for Social Security that Al Gore wanted), and people are living a LOT longer.

The govt. never was meant to "help seniors". That is fucking WELFARE.

What FDR set up was "social security" to ensure that we all had money saved for us by the govt. for out retirement. It isn't supposed to be "helping seniors" (welfare/entitlement)...it's SUPPOSED to be our own money coming back to us.

Of course these days in Washington they don't think of ANY money as belonging to the people who actually earned it.

I heard an ad on the radio the other day with the President criticizing Romney for wanting to "pay off" millionaires with tax breaks.

Only Washington D.C. logic could ever think that a person keeping the money they earned is the govt. "paying them off".

I've also heard tax breaks referred to as "Govt. spending"
WTF?!?!?!

So every penny that I earned and get to keep is considered govt. "spending" because they didn't get to get their thieving hands on it? lol

I've never had to ask for assistance from the government, so I don't have first hand experience.

but from what I am told the proceedures are intentionally humiliating, confusing, degrading, vastly complicated, unfair, and the people who administer those programs are unpleasant little fuckwads who take great pleasure in humiliating people.

I get that you want these old folks to be humiliated, to feel shame for beng poor; the most despicable thing you can be is a poor old person in america.

I personally can understand having so much pride that I would let the sheriff sell my home and throw me in the gutter rather than begging some government minityrant for help.

we are going to see a LOT more of this in the next few decades. america is going down a dark road, and a lot of people are going to get thrown under the bus.

yeah? so? what's your point?

entitlement programs are a problem, true. largely because of unexpected population bubbles (the boomers as example) and changing aging and death demographics, sure.

arguably we should always have let the old and the sick suffer in the ditches, like we did before the new deal, sure.

so whattya gonna do about it? what's your fucking solution?

you're glad to see old ladies kicked out of their homes, I gather? saves you some money, right?

I assume you have already moved out of the country? or are you still sucking at the public tit, driving the roads, enjoying the economy, benefitting from the education, and the old folks with money to spend?

most of you folks aren't big readers, but this was an easy read.

2030, by albert brooks, the tv personality - kind of a science fiction novel about a coming war between teh old and the young in america. he does a nice job of describing a possible future. some of his stuff - an absolute cure for cancer, and a bunch of other senior health care medical advances - seems highly unlikely. but, it's one of the better articulations of the coming old/young conflict.

http://www.amazon.com/2030-Story-Hap...=AG56TWVU5XWC2

yes, what to do about the demographic bulge of the boomers and the coming crisis is entitlements and longevity is a huge real and serious problem - and it deserves serious debate.

so man the fuck up and debate it seriously. you have to offer real solutions not pie-in-the-sky high school bullshit.

and if you are going to throw the old folks into the gutters man the fuck up, look them in the fucking eye, and stick in the fucking knife.

Do you know how much money the Federal govt. spends every day? And how much of it goes towards local roads and education? (that would be NONE by the way)

I don't suck at the public tit you idiot...the public sucks at MY tit. I'm a taxpayer (and one who pays a helluva lot more than most).

Social Security is NOT an "entitlement" program. Well...it wasn't SUPPOSED to be. It was designed and created and approved by the govt as a way for people to have their OWN money when they retired.

Looking back on it with hindsight...I don't think it's a good thing. But that's a matter of opinion.

ANYTHING ELSE is welfare and redistribution of wealth.

I care about MY family. And I help take care of them. Just like people did for thousands of years before Social Security...the world didn't start in the 1930's you know.

As for "public roads"...well, I pay property tax and local sales tax and a million other little fees where I live to pay for city roads and county roads and state roads. NO....I don't suck at the "public tit" to drive. None of us do. We PAY for it dearly.

As for federal highways...Turn your mind back to the 1990's when Bill Clinton slapped a national sales tax on gasoline that we pay to this very day that was touted by the govt. as money that would ONLY be used to build and maintain the interstate highway system. (of course they use if for other stuff every day...because they are thieves and liars, which is the definition of a politician).
So no..every time I put gas in one of my vehicles I pay for the use of federal highways too. So sorry...I don't suck at any "public tit" there either.

Education? Really? The Federal govt. doesn't pay for public schools. My local property tax does. And my college education was paid for by my grandfather (you know...my own FAMILY)...not the Federal govt.
So nope...far from sucking the "public tit" I am one of the people who the local govt. sucks MY tit to get money to pay for everyone's kids to go to school.

As for "enjoying the economy"....wtf are you talking about? The federal govt. doesn't make money for me! Matter of fact, they are doing so much deficit spending (4 billion in NEW debt every DAY) that it's killing the economy.

I don't know what world you live in. But I work hard for my money. And people like me who work, make money, and pay taxes are the LAST people who "suck the public tit"

It's insulting of you to say that to me and in the same breath act like it's OK for people living off the govt. (The REAL public tit)

i don't despise anyone. i just feel that everyone should pay their bills. it doesn't matter how old you are, man or women, if you want to own things that have bills associated with them then be prepared to pay those bills. if you can't afford to be a home owner then sell your house and rent a lessor expensive residence so you don't have to pay property tax bills. if you can't afford to pay your utility bills then find a room mate or don't use those utilities. people need to be responsible.

whether some knows there is help or can or can't get help, help is irrelevant. this comes down to someone wanting to own a luxury (home) but not being able to afford it. sorry, if you can't afford to pay the taxes then you shouldn't be a home owner. live with in your means. why can't people take responsibility? who was attacking an 80 year old women? the law is the same for all home owners, doesn't matter their age it would have been the same course of action.

There isn't a local church around that wouldn't have given that old woman $400 to keep her home. She had a problem, ignored the official warnings and didn't seek ouside help. Obviously.

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boo hoo hoo, big healthy man cries like a bitch over his taxes.

fucking whiner.

and not one word about solutions. you are just crying.

talk about solutions like a man.

essentially I agree.

but unlike you I feel sorry for the old people. I don't think they should have to be thrown into the ditches because of pride or ignorance.

lets hope you dont end up in a home you loved for decades, forced out of it because you live on a fixed incvome and cant pay steadily rising taxes and utilities.

live within your means is an easy thing to say for someone young and healthy with skills that can be sold in the marketplace.

Why are you trolling? I never said anything about "solutions".

What I first posted in this thread was that property tax is BULLSHIT. A person never owns their own property and home. It's really always belongs to the govt. If you had READ my first post you would have seen me say clearly that older people on a fixed income often lose their homes because of it. It's bullshit.

I really have no idea what you are talking about. I'm not whining or crying.

I'm just pointing out the truth. You are twisting stuff and acting like a jerk in this thread.

What do YOU do for a living anyway? What do YOU own? I'm an open book. You're the one on message board with a "nickname".

Tell me about yourself and what qualifications you have to make ANY kind of statements about economics, social structure, and paying taxes other than what you read on the internet...

lucky for you - you get to have someone else kick the old lady out of her house.

i bet you wouldn't be so tough if it was your mother.

all this proxy aggression and macho bullshit is just that - bullshit. posturing.

you are only able to be so tough because you dont have to watch it up close, or think about what it must be like to be old like that.

I bet you complain about school taxes too - and those are the local taxes that really hurt. but when they strip an old lady of your house you are all "bitch fuckin deserved it, if you can't afford your utility bills then live in a box.

you do realize that rents are higher than taxes and utilities on a home you own right? I own my house free and clear - I couldn't rent an efficiency apartment for what I pay to have a large old house.

I'm not trolling, I'm well known here for taking on you wingnuts. I like to fight. It's an interesting challenge to take on multiple opponents, and this is an easy topic for charged debate - kicking people out of there houses, and the coming war between the old and the young - and the coming war between wingnuts and everyone else.

I've been an adult webmaster since 98. I signed up here in 2001. I'm just an affiliate, but one who makes enough money to have been here all this time, and still be here.

I dont have any qualifications other than a college education and a lifelong interest in reading learning and science. I like to let my words speak for themselves, I don't rely on authority.

You raise an important issue - social security and medicare and the other entitlements. I have a longstanding interest in politics, and I like to discuss real solutions to big problems.

but all you are doing is bitching. my wife likes to do that to, just bitch about things without having to do anything serious about them.

if you want to throw down a solution, throw it down. I'll wait.

only the possible is relevant.

Brother you are in a fantasy world. There are no "opponents" and I'm not a "wingnut".

You presume a lot that you are ignorant of.