Killing off File Lockers - Page 24 - GoFuckYourself.com

FoxtrotAlpha · 07-10-2012, 07:23 AM

Although some of these hosts are coming back with alternative payment processors, it is damaging them greatly at least.

One of the only reasons people bought accounts from them in the past was because they used PayPal. Users have lost trust in them now and are refusing to use these alternative processors, meaning even if they're functioning, they're losing big money.

JOKER · 07-10-2012, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamianJ

First campaign is free, after that it is 50 bucks a month. Point is, if you do it now, it will measure and track all the reach this initial push gives you. Makes a baseline. The data you get out of it is AWESOME.

I begged them to let me do adult on there, but no dice. I use them constantly for mainstream clients. Spectacularly good.

But, as I said, just a suggestion!

Thanks, we'll def. look into it also for further social outreach.

Point of this CTA - (Call to action) though is to see how important it is to the people already within the adult industry to take action and get involved in this campaign.

My point is: It has it's reasons why we don't just use social media agencies for making this go viral.

You input is appreciated and has been noted for later use though. Thank you.

AK is away for a bit, I'm sure he will say his piece to this as well.

EpicPanda · 07-10-2012, 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JOKER | JOKEREMPIRE Inc.

First: This is sanctioned by and in collaboration with AdultKing.

Here is YOUR chance to help and make an impact:

It's simple: Re-tweet these two tweets and have as many friends re-tweet them as well:

https://twitter.com/ColdCopy/status/222135904251297793

Post them to your Facebook or any other media with many eyes on it, that's fine as well.

[B]Goal: Raise massive awareness and get #stopfilelockers #coldcopy together with #piracy trending

Retweeted

JOKER · 07-10-2012, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhadPanda

Retweeted

Thanks!

DamianJ · 07-10-2012, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JOKER | JOKEREMPIRE Inc.

Thanks, we'll def. look into it also for further social outreach.

Point of this CTA - (Call to action) though is to see how important it is to the people already within the adult industry to take action and get involved in this campaign.

What offerpop does is you make a post with a landing page, donate/thankyou whatever. This has tracking on it.

Then you tweet it, and ask people to rt with instructions. You then get stats on your tweets reaching your audience AND their audience so you can assess the reach your tweets had.

It also gives you more useful data. And there are ways you can use it to get people to follow you back and much more.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JOKER | JOKEREMPIRE Inc.

My point is: It has it's reasons why we don't just use social media agencies for making this go viral.

I'm not arguing, just explaining, offerpop isn't an agency. It doesn't tweet for you or anything. It's just a really good way of getting more reach, more people to follow you and loads of lovely data.

It would be perfect for what you're doing.

They have facebook stuff too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JOKER | JOKEREMPIRE Inc.

You input is appreciated and has been noted for later use though. Thank you.

AK is away for a bit, I'm sure he will say his piece to this as well.

Oh you're welcome. Keep up the good work!

Paul Markham · 07-10-2012, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RubyGoodnight

Look like panic is starting to set in at WJ.

Why keep the file hosts forum section, on Wjunction ?

Do you think filehosting will ever go back to normal like before?

I read some of the posts, obviously kids or people with no grasp of the real world.

They think this will stop with losing Paypal.

Or stop with just file hosts who pay uploaders.

The flaw is obvious, what's being done here can be done to anyone who has anything on their servers that doesn't comply with the processor's Terms.

Also they seem to think they have a right to pirate other peoples hard work.

Nautilus · 07-10-2012, 08:38 AM

Yet another image host lost it's paypal and moneybookers accounts thanks to Met-Art anti-piracy team:

http://www.imagehyper.com/credits.php

Three.Thousand · 07-10-2012, 10:33 AM

Dropbox can smell the blood:
http://blog.dropbox.com/index.php/ne...box-pro-plans/

JosephFM · 07-10-2012, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nautilus

Yet another image host lost it's paypal and moneybookers accounts thanks to Met-Art anti-piracy team:

http://www.imagehyper.com/credits.php

So image hosting sites going down too?

Nautilus · 07-10-2012, 10:56 AM

Torrentfreak on Paypal banning file lockers:

http://torrentfreak.com/paypal-bans-...ncerns-120710/

Nautilus · 07-10-2012, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JosephFM

So image hosting sites going down too?

Those who pirate copyrighted shit - yes.

Nautilus · 07-10-2012, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Three.Thousand

Dropbox can smell the blood:
http://blog.dropbox.com/index.php/ne...box-pro-plans/

"Sharing is caring" part is troubling. Are they planning to become the next piracy heaven?

AdultKing · 07-10-2012, 11:15 AM

I've just been informed by Tom Hymes from AVN that depositfiles are now processing with Paypal again.

Uploading.com are using resellers.

Looks like it's killing time.

AdultKing · 07-10-2012, 11:26 AM

Interesting article.

http://torrentfreak.com/paypal-bans-...ncerns-120710/

AdultKing · 07-10-2012, 11:55 AM

Half of the sites Terminated just over a day ago are now reprocessing with Paypal, I will be in contact with Paypal in the morning and have already sent them an email.

Update to story here: http://stopfilelockers.com/huge-payp...-file-lockers/

JOKER · 07-10-2012, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdultKing

Interesting article.

http://torrentfreak.com/paypal-bans-...ncerns-120710/

It sure is...

The spin is starting, trying to discredit you that you had nothing to do with all the shutdowns, but that was to be expected.

I think we're slowly moving into the 2.nd stage of grief: Anger. this should be fun.

Nautilus · 07-10-2012, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdultKing

I've just been informed by Tom Hymes from AVN that depositfiles are now processing with Paypal again.

Uploading.com are using resellers.

Looks like it's killing time.

They're using paypal for two highest priced options only, payment page says nothing about Depositfiles and only states "LAMBONESCO LTD.". Bogus account obviously, not approved by Paypal to accept payments for Depositfiles.

They also had some billing company to process cc payments for them just yesterday, but is gone now and it happened so quickly I cannot even remember the name of that company, payservice of something. Now they're processing through depfil their own reseller.

It sure looks like they're desperate and grasping the straws.

AdultKing · 07-10-2012, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nautilus

They're using paypal for two highest priced options only, payment page says nothing about Depositfiles and only states "LAMBONESCO LTD.". Bogus account obviously, not approved by Paypal to accept payments for Depositfiles.

They also had some billing company to process cc payments for them just yesterday, but is gone now and it happened so quickly I cannot even remember the name of that company, payservice of something. Now they're processing through depfil their own reseller.

It sure looks like they're desperate and grasping the straws.

We'll keep chipping away, I knew that these little spotfires would spring up again, these companies want to keep profiting from stolen content. So we'll keep applying pressure.

nikki99 · 07-10-2012, 12:33 PM

bump..............

Nautilus · 07-10-2012, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdultKing

We'll keep chipping away, I knew that these little spotfires would spring up again, these companies want to keep profiting from stolen content. So we'll keep applying pressure.

Pirates worship their illegal income more than we can ever even imagine, and fight tooth and nail for it. Because they cannot create anything on their own, and stealing is the only way for them to make it big. So yes, unfortunately there's still a long road ahead to hunt down whatever new options they'll invent to bypass terminations. Only a few of them will probably just give up and close up shop.

Btw that depfil payment page looks just about as scammy as postbackurl "cc processor" used by uploaded.to currently. No links to TOS, no privacy policy, not refund policy, no any of the contact info and support e-mail and phone numbers, nothing. It is so obviouly in violation with all VISA and MC regs you can accept bets on how fast it's going to be terminated.

But actually, it is possible that it will not be terminated because there's nothing to terminate - both depositfiles and uploaded.to are quite likely were never approved by VISA and MC as merchants and are just fishing for cc numbers now, to run them later through some obscure offshore merchant account, and then run into the sunset with their last catch.

AdultKing · 07-10-2012, 12:46 PM

Alot of them use redirects to legitimate looking sites that then just then redirect again to a Paypal page. FileRose.com was doing that if you look carefully at your url bar when clicking buy membership.

They're sneaky bastards.

DWB · 07-10-2012, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdultKing

Alot of them use redirects to legitimate looking sites that then just then redirect again to a Paypal page. FileRose.com was doing that if you look carefully at your url bar when clicking buy membership.

They're sneaky bastards.

AdultKing · 07-10-2012, 01:18 PM

Lots of Black Coffee this morning. It's just gone 6.15 am , been going at it for 3 hours!

We're working on the site for the project hub and for the collaboration system to sit behind.

Emails have been sent to Paypal about the bypassing of the Paypal terminations, I expect those issues to be dealt with swiftly.

Had contact from a couple of file locker sites asking how they could work to become compliant. Interesting times.

Nautilus · 07-10-2012, 01:34 PM

Hm... Is it time to add filepost to the list too? I do not see paypal at their premium page any longer.

http://filepost.com/premium/

JosephFM · 07-10-2012, 01:59 PM

Bump ditty bump.

AdultKing · 07-10-2012, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nautilus

Hm... Is it time to add filepost to the list too? I do not see paypal at their premium page any longer.

http://filepost.com/premium/

No, Alex from FilePost has been in contact with me to see how they can become compliant. I don't know why they haven't got Paypal but we didn't do it.

Axeman · 07-10-2012, 02:18 PM

Keep up the good fight AK!

DarkJedi · 07-10-2012, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdultKing

No, Alex from FilePost has been in contact with me to see how they can become compliant. I don't know why they haven't got Paypal but we didn't do it.

Obviously because they don't want their PP account suspended and all funds frozen for 6 months.

Also, there is no way they can become compliant, because the whole business model is built around hosting pirated content. People who want to store and back up their personal files just use Dropbox.

georgeyw · 07-10-2012, 02:44 PM

I wonder if any of our Aussie news programmes will cover this story

just a punk · 07-10-2012, 02:46 PM

Three.Thousand · 07-10-2012, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkJedi

Obviously because they don't want their PP account suspended and all funds frozen for 6 months.

Also, there is no way they can become compliant, because the whole business model is built around hosting pirated content. People who want to store and back up their personal files just use Dropbox.

Hold up, are you sure that average people don't have GB worth of content they created themselves? such as videos of their cats, videos of them playing video games, maaahooosive word documents, GB of holiday photos,..... and upload these and profit from them because thousands upon thousand of people are willing to buy premium accounts to download this?

SplatterMaster · 07-10-2012, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberSEO

Alexa PayPal

Interesting isn?t it? If you look at the max data you will see traffic start to rise in 2010. Same with AlertPay.

BAKO · 07-10-2012, 03:11 PM

Doing it big. Good job

georgeyw · 07-10-2012, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Three.Thousand

Hold up, are you sure that average people don't have GB worth of content they created themselves? such as videos of their cats, videos of them playing video games, maaahooosive word documents, GB of holiday photos,..... and upload these and profit from them because thousands upon thousand of people are willing to buy premium accounts to download this?

I could honestly say I have a few TB of videos i've created myself. However they go up on YT

JOKER · 07-10-2012, 03:18 PM

I think this with File Lockers or Piracy instead if "Your Mom" should be AK's new avatar

georgeyw · 07-10-2012, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JOKER

I think this with File Lockers or Piracy instead if "Your Mom" should be AK's new avatar

Love that idea!

DWB · 07-10-2012, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberSEO

Bananas.

They have been cashing in big time on illegal content of all sorts.

AdultKing · 07-10-2012, 03:50 PM

Will those with ICQ and Facebook please hit me up , I need you to do me a quick favor to help the effort!

xenigo · 07-10-2012, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DWB

Bananas.

They have been cashing in big time on illegal content of all sorts.

Holy shit! This is disgusting. That is one truly disturbing snapshot that paints the state of this industry. Unfathomable. Couldn't have imagined the chart would look like that...

That insight alone should get a ton of people behind this movement.

johnnyloadproductions · 07-10-2012, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xenigo

Holy shit! This is disgusting. That is one truly disturbing snapshot that paints the state of this industry. Unfathomable. Couldn't have imagined the chart would look like that...

That insight alone should get a ton of people behind this movement.

I'm of course there is just some speculation here.
But paypal would never want mainstream news agencies to ever catch win to just how much money they are making off of these file lockers. Granted it's still probably not there largest source but I'd venture to say if you completely cut paypal out of the file locker industry it's a good 5% of they're income or possibly more. They do roughly $3-4 billion in sales.

I wouldn't be surprised if they total $50-100 million a year from the file lockers globally. I'm keeping things conservative. Keep in mind they had accounts for rapidshare, depositfiles, filesonic, letitbit, fileserve, megaupload, and countless others.

PR is more important in this case then having a full blown case of damage control on your hands. You can only pass the buck so much when the total truth comes out.
The problem is only a few people know the intricacies of how these online businesses work.

georgeyw · 07-10-2012, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnnyloadproductions

I'm of course there is just some speculation here.
But paypal would never want mainstream news agencies to ever catch win to just how much money they are making off of these file lockers. Granted it's still probably not there largest source but I'd venture to say if you completely cut paypal out of the file locker industry it's a good 5% of they're income or possibly more. They do roughly $3-4 billion in sales.

I wouldn't be surprised if they total $50-100 million a year from the file lockers globally. I'm keeping things conservative. Keep in mind they had accounts for rapidshare, depositfiles, filesonic, letitbit, fileserve, megaupload, and countless others.

PR is more important in this case then having a full blown case of damage control on your hands. You can only pass the buck so much when the total truth comes out.
The problem is only a few people know the intricacies of how these online businesses work.

The figures for megaupload were upwards of 100million weren't they?

I'd say it would be a hell of a lot more than $100 million.

Gozarian · 07-10-2012, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdultKing

Will those with ICQ and Facebook please hit me up , I need you to do me a quick favor to help the effort!

nicu_nutza at yahoo

SiMpLe · 07-10-2012, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Three.Thousand

Hold up, are you sure that average people don't have GB worth of content they created themselves? such as videos of their cats, videos of them playing video games, maaahooosive word documents, GB of holiday photos,..... and upload these and profit from them because thousands upon thousand of people are willing to buy premium accounts to download this?

I just teehee'd

livexxx · 07-10-2012, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberSEO

thats some serious saving in bandwidth bills

krylon · 07-10-2012, 06:05 PM

yeah, there should only be one file host available for anyone person to use.

Just like all our users should just go to pornhub to watch porn.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkJedi

Obviously because they don't want their PP account suspended and all funds frozen for 6 months.

Also, there is no way they can become compliant, because the whole business model is built around hosting pirated content. People who want to store and back up their personal files just use Dropbox.

livexxx · 07-10-2012, 06:17 PM

AK, I think you need a tab on the stopfilelockers that says what it is that you are doing and what the aims are. I've sent the site link to a few media people and a couple of them have said, so what exactly is it. Something as simple as "About" would do the trick.

Screwed Up · 07-10-2012, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

Bump.

PiracyPitbull · 07-10-2012, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Three.Thousand

Hold up, are you sure that average people don't have GB worth of content they created themselves? such as videos of their cats, videos of them playing video games, maaahooosive word documents, GB of holiday photos,..... and upload these and profit from them because thousands upon thousand of people are willing to buy premium accounts to download this?

I bought a one year Filesonic premium membership ages ago because I assumed that id be getting all these great cute pet clips and hilarious people falling over videos.

Imagine how ripped off you feel when you find out its all the latest full length movies, music collections, software and pornsites

Gozarian · 07-10-2012, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by livexxx

AK, I think you need a tab on the stopfilelockers that says what it is that you are doing and what the aims are. I've sent the site link to a few media people and a couple of them have said, so what exactly is it. Something as simple as "About" would do the trick.

http://stopfilelockers.com/category/file-lockers/

DarkJedi · 07-10-2012, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by livexxx

AK, I think you need a tab on the stopfilelockers that says what it is that you are doing and what the aims are. I've sent the site link to a few media people and a couple of them have said, so what exactly is it. Something as simple as "About" would do the trick.

At this point (the whole thing is obviously getting huge) a professional web design is in order. Blog hardly cuts it anymore.

I'm sure someone who is helping out with the effort could spare their web developer to put together a good website.

07-10-2012, 08:38 AM	#1157
Nautilus Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 1,631	Yet another image host lost it's paypal and moneybookers accounts thanks to Met-Art anti-piracy team: http://www.imagehyper.com/credits.php __________________ . . FerroCash - 50+ quality niche paysites to promote \| 100K+ FHGs \| Check recently added galleries New sites \| Pantyhose \| Nylon \| Shemale \| Strapon \| Lesbian \| Mature/MILF \| Anal \| Old&Young \| Gay \| Feet Morphing RSS feeds - check them at the Official blog\| Page Peels (Sample 1 : Sample 2) Wish to review or evaluate our sites before promoting them? Contact me for free password. ICQ: 38.89.22.76 e-mail: support AT ferrocash.com

07-10-2012, 10:56 AM	#1160
Nautilus Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 1,631	Torrentfreak on Paypal banning file lockers: http://torrentfreak.com/paypal-bans-...ncerns-120710/ __________________ . . FerroCash - 50+ quality niche paysites to promote \| 100K+ FHGs \| Check recently added galleries New sites \| Pantyhose \| Nylon \| Shemale \| Strapon \| Lesbian \| Mature/MILF \| Anal \| Old&Young \| Gay \| Feet Morphing RSS feeds - check them at the Official blog\| Page Peels (Sample 1 : Sample 2) Wish to review or evaluate our sites before promoting them? Contact me for free password. ICQ: 38.89.22.76 e-mail: support AT ferrocash.com

07-10-2012, 12:33 PM	#1169
nikki99 Supermodel Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Sodoma & Gomorra Posts: 22,760	bump.............. __________________ Nikki Ladyboys Reseller Program SMC Revenue - Best Tgirl websites of the world now VR Non exclusive BIG Tranny/shemale Package for sale, full 2257 - hit me up skype: nikkimontero

07-10-2012, 01:34 PM	#1174
Nautilus Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 1,631	Hm... Is it time to add filepost to the list too? I do not see paypal at their premium page any longer. http://filepost.com/premium/ __________________ . . FerroCash - 50+ quality niche paysites to promote \| 100K+ FHGs \| Check recently added galleries New sites \| Pantyhose \| Nylon \| Shemale \| Strapon \| Lesbian \| Mature/MILF \| Anal \| Old&Young \| Gay \| Feet Morphing RSS feeds - check them at the Official blog\| Page Peels (Sample 1 : Sample 2) Wish to review or evaluate our sites before promoting them? Contact me for free password. ICQ: 38.89.22.76 e-mail: support AT ferrocash.com

07-10-2012, 02:18 PM	#1177
Axeman Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Swamp Posts: 5,192	Keep up the good fight AK! __________________ XXXRewards - Karups - Boyfun - Jawked. Paying on time since 1997. Contact me at brent [at] xxxrewards.com

07-10-2012, 07:23 AM	#1151
FoxtrotAlpha Registered User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 104	Although some of these hosts are coming back with alternative payment processors, it is damaging them greatly at least. One of the only reasons people bought accounts from them in the past was because they used PayPal. Users have lost trust in them now and are refusing to use these alternative processors, meaning even if they're functioning, they're losing big money.

07-10-2012, 10:33 AM	#1158
Three.Thousand Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: UK Posts: 287	Dropbox can smell the blood: http://blog.dropbox.com/index.php/ne...box-pro-plans/

07-10-2012, 11:15 AM	#1163
AdultKing Raise Your Weapon Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Outback Australia Posts: 15,602	I've just been informed by Tom Hymes from AVN that depositfiles are now processing with Paypal again. Uploading.com are using resellers. Looks like it's killing time.

07-10-2012, 11:26 AM	#1164
AdultKing Raise Your Weapon Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Outback Australia Posts: 15,602	Interesting article. http://torrentfreak.com/paypal-bans-...ncerns-120710/

07-10-2012, 11:55 AM	#1165
AdultKing Raise Your Weapon Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Outback Australia Posts: 15,602	Half of the sites Terminated just over a day ago are now reprocessing with Paypal, I will be in contact with Paypal in the morning and have already sent them an email. Update to story here: http://stopfilelockers.com/huge-payp...-file-lockers/

07-10-2012, 12:46 PM	#1171
AdultKing Raise Your Weapon Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Outback Australia Posts: 15,602	Alot of them use redirects to legitimate looking sites that then just then redirect again to a Paypal page. FileRose.com was doing that if you look carefully at your url bar when clicking buy membership. They're sneaky bastards.

07-10-2012, 01:18 PM	#1173
AdultKing Raise Your Weapon Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Outback Australia Posts: 15,602	Lots of Black Coffee this morning. It's just gone 6.15 am , been going at it for 3 hours! We're working on the site for the project hub and for the collaboration system to sit behind. Emails have been sent to Paypal about the bypassing of the Paypal terminations, I expect those issues to be dealt with swiftly. Had contact from a couple of file locker sites asking how they could work to become compliant. Interesting times.

07-10-2012, 01:59 PM	#1175
JosephFM Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 1,190	Bump ditty bump.

07-10-2012, 02:44 PM	#1179
georgeyw 58008 53773 Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 9,864	I wonder if any of our Aussie news programmes will cover this story __________________ TripleXPrint on Megan Fox "I would STILL suck her pussy until her face caved in. And then blow her up and do it again!"

07-10-2012, 02:46 PM	#1180
just a punk So fuckin' bored Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 32,345

07-10-2012, 03:11 PM	#1183
BAKO Etology.com Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Hollywood CA Posts: 18,359	Doing it big. Good job __________________ DatingNetwork.com Skype: Bako2323 New Product Launch date 2/20/2024 Sexbelt.com Hit me up if you want to start promoting our one of a kind product! Review sites welcome Sexbelt.com COMING SOON! SIGN UP HERE TO PROMOTE Sexbelt.com

07-10-2012, 03:18 PM	#1185
JOKER Facit Omnia Voluntas Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Offshore Posts: 2,105	I think this with File Lockers or Piracy instead if "Your Mom" should be AK's new avatar __________________ Facilitation - BizDev - Traffic - Consulting - Marketing Skype: jokerempire \| Silent Circle: joker

07-10-2012, 03:50 PM	#1188
AdultKing Raise Your Weapon Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Outback Australia Posts: 15,602	Will those with ICQ and Facebook please hit me up , I need you to do me a quick favor to help the effort!

07-10-2012, 06:17 PM	#1196
livexxx Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2005 Location: UK Posts: 1,201	AK, I think you need a tab on the stopfilelockers that says what it is that you are doing and what the aims are. I've sent the site link to a few media people and a couple of them have said, so what exactly is it. Something as simple as "About" would do the trick. __________________ http://www.webcamalerts.com for auto tweets for web cam operators