Patriot Act II: Americans...Kiss Your Rights Goodbye!!! - GoFuckYourself.com

wonton · 02-12-2003, 01:23 PM

Yeah. Yeah. It's me again. Call me a conspiracy nut if you will but did anyone actually read the new proposed "anti-terrorism bill"?

Link to Patriot Act II in PDF Format

I've personally read 150 pages of Patriot Act I and all pages of Patriot Act II. It is important to note that a tiny clause in Patriot Act I essentially defined terrorism as the breaking of *any federal or state law...*

Here is an excellent and concise analysis by Alex Jones:

TOTAL POLICE STATE TAKEOVER
The Secret Patriot Act II Destroys What Is Left of American Liberty

A Brief Analysis of the Domestic Security Enhancement Act 2003, Also Known as Patriot Act II
By Alex Jones
www.infowars.com
(Posted Feb 10, 2003)

Congressman Ron Paul (R-Tex) told the Washington Times that no member of Congress was allowed to read the first Patriot Act that was passed by the House on October 27, 2001. The first Patriot Act was universally decried by civil libertarians and Constitutional scholars from across the political spectrum. William Safire, while writing for the New York Times, described the first Patriot Act?s powers by saying that President Bush was ?seizing dictatorial control.

On February 7, 2003 the Center for Public Integrity, a non-partisan public interest think-tank in DC, revealed the full text of the Domestic Security Enhancement Act of 2003. The classified document had been leaked to them by an unnamed source inside the Federal government. The document consisted of a 33-page section by section analysis of the accompanying 87-page bill.

*Note: On February 10, 2003 I discovered that not only was there a house version that had been covertly brought to Hastert, but that many provisions of the now public Patriot Act II had already been introduced as pork barrel riders on Senate Bill S. 22. Dozens of subsections and even the titles of the subsections are identical to those in the House version. This is very important because it catches the Justice Department in a bald-faced lie. The Justice Department claimed that the secret legislation brought into the House was only for study, and that at this time there was no intention to try and pass it. Now upon reading S. 22, it is clear that the leadership of the Senate is fully aware of the Patriot Act II, and have passed these riders out of their committees into the full bill. I spent two hours scanning through S. 22 and, let me tell you, it is a nightmare for anyone who loves liberty. It even contains the Our Lady of Peace Act that registers all gun owners. It bans the private sale of all firearms, creates a Federal ballistics database, and much more.

The bill itself is stamped ?Confidential ? Not for Distribution.? Upon reading the analysis and bill, I was stunned by the scientifically crafted tyranny contained in the legislation. The Justice Department Office of Legislative Affairs admits that they had indeed covertly transmitted a copy of the legislation to Speaker of the House Dennis Hastert, (R-Il) and the Vice President of the United States, Dick Cheney as well as the executive heads of federal law enforcement agencies.

It is important to note that no member of Congress was allowed to see the first Patriot Act before its passage, and that no debate was tolerate by the House and Senate leadership. The intentions of the White House and Speaker Hastert concerning Patriot Act II appear to be a carbon copy replay of the events that led to the unprecedented passage of the first Patriot Act.

There are two glaring areas that need to be looked at concerning this new legislation:

1. The secretive tactics being used by the White House and Speaker Hastert to keep even the existence of this legislation secret would be more at home in Communist China than in the United States. The fact that Dick Cheney publicly managed the steamroller passage of the first Patriot Act, insuring that no one was allowed to read it and publicly threatening members of Congress that if they didn?t vote in favor of it that they would be blamed for the next terrorist attack, is by the White House?s own definition terrorism. The move to clandestinely craft and then bully passage of any legislation by the Executive Branch is clearly an impeachable offence.

2. The second Patriot Act is a mirror image of powers that Julius Caesar and Adolf Hitler gave themselves. Whereas the First Patriot Act only gutted the First, Third, Fourth and Fifth Amendments, and seriously damaged the Seventh and the Tenth, the Second Patriot Act reorganizes the entire Federal government as well as many areas of state government under the dictatorial control of the Justice Department, the Office of Homeland Security and the FEMA NORTHCOM military command. The Domestic Security Enhancement Act 2003, also known as the Second Patriot Act is by its very structure the definition of dictatorship.

I challenge all Americans to study the new Patriot Act and to compare it to the Constitution, Bill of Rights and Declaration of Independence. Ninety percent of the act has nothing to do with terrorism and is instead a giant Federal power-grab with tentacles reaching into every facet of our society. It strips American citizens of all of their rights and grants the government and its private agents total immunity.

Here is a quick thumbnail sketch of just some of the draconian measures encapsulated within this tyrannical legislation:

SECTION 501 (Expatriation of Terrorists) expands the Bush administration?s ?enemy combatant? definition to all American citizens who ?may? have violated any provision of Section 802 of the first Patriot Act. .....

Full Text of Above Analysis Here

TurboTrucker · 02-12-2003, 01:33 PM

You're a conspiracy nut.

Quote:

Originally posted by wonton
Yeah. Yeah. It's me again. Call me a conspiracy nut if you will but did anyone actually read the new proposed "anti-terrorism bill"?

ElvisManson · 02-12-2003, 01:35 PM

If what he says is true...is is fucking scary.

ChrisH · 02-12-2003, 01:36 PM

Brujah · 02-12-2003, 01:43 PM

Your point ? ;)

OneHungLo · 02-12-2003, 01:45 PM

Shouldnt you be out making osama bin laden tapes?

wonton · 02-12-2003, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ElvisManson
If what he says is true...is is fucking scary.

It is fucking scary. All you have to do is read the two pieces of legislation yourself.

Granted, Patriot Act I is over 400 pages long so almost no one on this board is going to read it in its entirety. But you CAN pull a PDF of Patriot Act I and at least READ THE RELEVANT SECTIONS that Jones and others object to. Just READ THOSE SECTIONS and you will see that Jones and Safire (NY Times) analyses are BANG ON!

Right after the next "terrorist attack" Patriot Act II will be rammed through congress and the senate just like Patriot Act I. And even if you don't believe that the government has a hand in terrorism and it is all Osama - fine! But EITHER WAY the end result will be a dictatorial power grab by the federal government whether you like it or not. This is the same government, by the way, who has already proposed different schemes to fully monitor the internet. Now that, at least, should get people on this board concerned.

READ PEOPLE. READ DAMMIT. READ. READ. READ!

kenny · 02-12-2003, 01:46 PM

We already covered this topic ounce today

FATPad · 02-12-2003, 01:47 PM

Crap! The sky is falling!

Better move your domains to someplace completely free like Germany, where they can't yank your domains off the net for no reason!

Libertine · 02-12-2003, 01:47 PM

Reading the damn thing right now, and it's creeping the fuck out of me.

wonton · 02-12-2003, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by FATPad
Crap! The sky is falling!

Better move your domains to someplace completely free like Germany, where they can't yank your domains off the net for no reason!

Well, I would indeed hate to see America become like that. But believe me, it may not be far off.

And the sky doesn't fall unless we let it fall. By not reading and educating themselves about their government's own pieces of legislation, Americans may indeed let their sky fall.

Massivecock · 02-12-2003, 01:50 PM

Exactly what I have been saying for 1 year staight now!

And to think everyone called me a Conspiracy freak.

Its a complete takeover. Just like I have been saying!
--
You people have no clue!

Wonton
Your on the Ball by friend!

For all you non-believers.
Ignorance is not bliss!

kenny · 02-12-2003, 02:00 PM

We already went over this ounce today...

wonton · 02-12-2003, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Massivecock
Exactly what I have been saying for 1 year staight now!

And to think everyone called me a Conspiracy freak.

Its a complete takeover. Just like I have been saying!
--
You people have no clue!

Wonton
Your on the Ball by friend!

For all you non-believers.
Ignorance is not bliss!

Agreed. But I would not refer to those who can't see this as "non-believers" as that implies some kind of religious or fanatical faith. I am not operating on any kind of faith or fanatacism. All I am doing is reading the government's own recent legislation, which is public and freely available on the net. Then I am re-reading the constitution and bill of rights and can clearly see that the former obliterates the latter. And the conclusions I draw are the same as that of hundreds of attorneys, constitutional experts and independent journalists (and a few mainstream ones) across the country.

It is a complete take over. It is the conversion of a free and democratic society into a military-corporate dictatorship. It is the foundation for a Soviet style society. But none of this should come as a surprise to anyone. History is cyclical and the historical model tells us that societies more often move towards tyranny than away from it. In America we have had a 200+ year run of countering that historic model but it looks like entropy is finally catching up with us.

Do I think we'll all be in the gulag tomorrow? No. But will society slowly but surely convert to a structure that even Orwell dare not imagine? Absolutely yes, if no one does anything about it.

Over the next 1 to 20 years... the times they will be a changing...

kenny · 02-12-2003, 02:05 PM

20 years, that is good I plan on having my own country by then

kenny · 02-12-2003, 02:07 PM

What country do you conspiracy people come from if I may ask?

wonton · 02-12-2003, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by kenny
20 years, that is good I plan on having my own country by then

Cool. We used to have our country too. It was called America.

In 10-20 years it will be called Amerika.

Of course, Bushie and his friends in the pentagon may decide to accelerate their plans and maybe Amerika will be at your doorstep within 2 years. I hope not. But the way things are going, I would not rule that out.

wonton · 02-12-2003, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by kenny
What country do you conspiracy people come from if I may ask?

Hey. I have a novel idea for you.

Why don't you actually read Patriot Act I, Patriot Act II, the US Consititution, Bill of Rights and Declaration of Independence. Maybe do that this weekend. None of these documents have been written by fringe lunatics (well maybe the first two). These documents were written by YOUR OWN GOVERNMENT.

Once you have done that, and if you have the IQ of a jelly bean or higher, you will clearly see that the first two documents pretty much nullify the last three.

Don't want to call that a conspiracy? I'm fine with that. Then let's just call it "politics".

Replace the word "conspiracy" in your mind with the word "politics".

The politics of America in the first decade of the 21st century is rapidly converting the country into a classic police state. That is a fact. It is a political fact.

ElvisManson · 02-12-2003, 02:15 PM

You may now start referring to GW as Nehemiah Scudder

( for anyone that knows Heinlen)

goBigtime · 02-12-2003, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wonton

Just READ THOSE SECTIONS and you will see that Jones and Safire (NY Times) analyses are BASED ON!

READ PEOPLE. READ DAMMIT. READ. READ. READ!

We can't. We are sedated. Musst watch Teeeeeveeeee.

wonton · 02-12-2003, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by goBigtime

We can't. We are sedated. Musst watch Teeeeeveeeee.

Ha! Ha! How true. Sad but true!

Funny at the same time.

kenny · 02-12-2003, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wonton

Hey. I have a novel idea for you.

Why don't you actually read Patriot Act I, Patriot Act II, the US Consititution, Bill of Rights and Declaration of Independence. Maybe do that this weekend. None of these documents have been written by fringe lunatics (well maybe the first two). These documents were written by YOUR OWN GOVERNMENT.

Once you have done that, and if you have the IQ of a jelly bean or higher, you will clearly see that the first two documents pretty much nullify the last three.

Don't want to call that a conspiracy? I'm fine with that. Then let's just call it "politics".

Replace the word "conspiracy" in your mind with the word "politics".

The politics of America in the first decade of the 21st century is rapidly converting the country into a classic police state. That is a fact. It is a political fact.

Why dont you worry about your own fucking country? I am having a absolute great time in mine. Do you hear me complaining? What the fuck man, dont you have anything better to do?

theking · 02-12-2003, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wonton

Hey. I have a novel idea for you.

Why don't you actually read Patriot Act I, Patriot Act II, the US Consititution, Bill of Rights and Declaration of Independence. Maybe do that this weekend. None of these documents have been written by fringe lunatics (well maybe the first two). These documents were written by YOUR OWN GOVERNMENT.

Once you have done that, and if you have the IQ of a jelly bean or higher, you will clearly see that the first two documents pretty much nullify the last three.

Don't want to call that a conspiracy? I'm fine with that. Then let's just call it "politics".

Replace the word "conspiracy" in your mind with the word "politics".

The politics of America in the first decade of the 21st century is rapidly converting the country into a classic police state. That is a fact. It is a political fact.

I am not a terrorist and I am not a criminal so if you will just capsulize what rights I will be losing. Thank you in advance.

wonton · 02-12-2003, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ElvisManson
You may now start referring to GW as Nehemiah Scudder

( for anyone that knows Heinlen)

LOL! I have seen many people refer to Bushie as Scudder. Just do a search on the net.

Interesting aside, Bush actually does have an ancestor named Scudder. And no I am not trying to make some conspiracy link with his real ancestor vs a ficticious character. I mention it only as an ironic tidbit. Life imitates art!

goBigtime · 02-12-2003, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wonton

Funny at the same time.

FUnny like.. haha it doensn't matter we're all dying anyway, pass the doritos and a corona?

WendyB · 02-12-2003, 02:29 PM

I bought my duct tape already. 2 rolls for $5.oo at home depot

wonton · 02-12-2003, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by theking

I am not a terrorist and I am not a criminal so if you will just capsulize what rights I will be losing. Thank you in advance.

PA I broadly defined "terrorism" as the breaking of any federal or state law. Internet porn, no matter how tame, breaks the decency laws of some conservative midwestern state somewhere...

Right now you are protected by the Frist Amendment. A few webmasters have gone to jail for "obscenity" on trumped up charges but by and large the First Ammendment protects all porno webbies from across-the-board prosecution. It is really the only thing standing between you and the justice dept.

Once PAII becomes the law of the land, the First Amendment will be trumped by the clauses inherent in this piece of "legislation". Then, the only thing that will stand between you and the justice dept. will be a wing a prayer. Good luck!

So if you define your freedom to post sexual pictures on the net as a "right". which the supreme court has pretty much agreed is a First Ammendment right. Then, to specifically answer your question, that is the right you are at serious risk of losing, amongst many others. Read the acts.

stocktrader23 · 02-12-2003, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wonton

It's good to see some people on this board do read up on their shit before they post their mind about it. I have tried to point this out 20 times and there's always a bunch of idiots saying it isn't so. Ah well, they'll figure it out when they are in federal prison for 20 years.

wonton · 02-12-2003, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by goBigtime

FUnny like.. haha it doensn't matter we're all dying anyway, pass the doritos and a corona?

Yeah something like that. Also funny that we are in an atypical historical cycle, where the people of an entire nation blindly write the script to their own doom. If we were all German living in Berlin in 1933, we would all be proudly waving the Nazi flag with joy and patriotism. We would viciously berate anyone who dared to speak negatively about our leaders. If we were Russians living in Moscow in 1919, we would be proud stalwarts of the revolution...and the list goes on and on.

There is a certain humor in seeing the masses bring down totalitarianism down on their own heads. Sort of like watching lemmings follow the leader over the cliff. That's fucking funny.

Doh! But it's also kinda sad..

stocktrader23 · 02-12-2003, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wonton

Yeah something like that. Also funny that we are in an atypical historical cycle, where the people of an entire nation blindly write the script to their own doom. If we were all German living in Berlin in 1933, we would all be proudly waving the Nazi flag with joy and patriotism. We would viciously berate anyone who dared to speak negatively about our leaders. If we were Russians living in Moscow in 1919, we would be proud stalwarts of the revolution...and the list goes on and on.

There is a certain humor in seeing the masses bring down totalitarianism down on their own heads. Sort of like watching lemmings follow the leader over the cliff. That's fucking funny.

Doh! But it's also kinda sad..

You are so right it isn't funny. Where you from Wonton?

Kris · 02-12-2003, 02:41 PM

Alex Jones = freak

wonton · 02-12-2003, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kris
Alex Jones = freak

Maybe. But in the analysis I posted, he is merely pointing out some clauses in government legislation. You can easily separate the clauses he is pointing out from his own opinions on the same. So forget about his opinions if you consider him a freak. But at least read the legislation yourself. Pull the PDF off a government website if you only trust the government. Then figure out for yourself what these pieces of legislation mean vis a vis all the rights we currently enjoy and have pretty much taken for granted. It is pretty obvious.

wonton · 02-12-2003, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by stocktrader23

You are so right it isn't funny. Where you from Wonton?

From the good old United States of America. I just happen to be one of the very few that reads everything and questions everything - not your typical American attitude.

kenny · 02-12-2003, 02:47 PM

I am going outside to drink a beer and clean my AK47. Mabye they will take secert photos of me and use them to steal all of the oil in Iraq somehow. I refuse to argue or post in these retarded anti-american threads anymore. A waste of time. I am enjoying my life as a free american.

goBigtime · 02-12-2003, 02:47 PM

Like it's funny that some people claim they are visted by aliens who say they have destroyed their own planet with weapons and are forced to lived undergound, and are trying to warn us about the possible destruction of ours....

But on the other hand its sort of sad

kinda like that?

kenny · 02-12-2003, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wonton

From the good old United States of America. I just happen to be one of the very few that reads everything and questions everything - not your typical American attitude.

So you are from America? And you bitch about it. You bitch about making money sitting on your ass and selling porn on the internet? Do you understand how this country evolved in order to allow your bitch ass to do so? You have no pride? You can do nothing but bitch and question your right to bitch? I am through with this dumb shit

wonton · 02-12-2003, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by kenny
I am going outside to drink a beer and clean my AK47. Mabye they will take secert photos of me and use them to steal all of the oil in Iraq somehow. I refuse to argue or post in these retarded anti-american threads anymore. A waste of time. I am enjoying my life as a free american.

It appears that you are the anti-american, given your persistence in not reading your government's own registration..

And I doubt you are a gun owner. Because if you were, you would find the PA II completely reprehensible. It sets up gun registries, bans the sale of private firearms and more. It is the first major step to revoking the second amendment. So kiss your AK-47 goodbye.

And enjoy your life as a "free american" while it lasts. True americans would do everything in their power to fight any threats to their freedom - foreign or domestic. Everyone on this board seems unanimous about fighting forein threats, and that's great. But few recognize the domestic threat and that's just ignorant.

Move your trailer park to a more upscale neighborhood with a better library and then do some research.

goBigtime · 02-12-2003, 02:55 PM

This guy knows whats up...

It's the only way to block the Y-rays.

Protect Your Mind. Sheeple Unite!

Really wonton.. people don't care (enough) to do anything or question anything more than just a verbal "WTF?!.. cRazy.. I need a hamburger".

We're kept too busy ratracing around these days to worry about stuff like reading 400 page Patriot Act's.

Maybe If you could summarize what your trying to say in a 30 second commercial slot between Friends and American Idol you would have a better shot at it.

wonton · 02-12-2003, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by kenny

So you are from America? And you bitch about it. You bitch about making money sitting on your ass and selling porn on the internet? Do you understand how this country evolved in order to allow your bitch ass to do so? You have no pride? You can do nothing but bitch and question your right to bitch? I am through with this dumb shit

I am trying to perserve America and its freedoms.

You are lazily and ignorantly alllowing it to slip away.

Who's the real bitch?

ChrisH · 02-12-2003, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by kenny

Why dont you worry about your own fucking country? I am having a absolute great time in mine. Do you hear me complaining? What the fuck man, dont you have anything better to do?

kenny,
This works for me.

This person is on your Ignore List. To view this post click [here]

It's kind of funny how many foreigners are overly concerned with the US though. I just ignore their ignorance and

goBigtime · 02-12-2003, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by kenny

So you are from America? And you bitch about it. You bitch about making money sitting on your ass and selling porn on the internet? Do you understand how this country evolved in order to allow your bitch ass to do so? You have no pride? You can do nothing but bitch and question your right to bitch? I am through with this dumb shit

He's bitching because that "evolution" that your speaking of is in the process of being regressed.

Joe Sixpack · 02-12-2003, 02:58 PM

"Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security will not have,
nor do they deserve, either one."
~President Thomas Jefferson.

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety."
~Benjamin Franklin

ChrisH · 02-12-2003, 03:02 PM

playa · 02-12-2003, 03:08 PM

The president already has a shit load of executive orders that he can put in place without the approval of congress,,

like martial law and there is also an order to basically making citizen a slave to the government

so this isn't really much different

kenny · 02-12-2003, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by goBigtime

He's bitching because that "evolution" that your speaking of is in the process of being regressed.

Listen bro, we already had this conversation about the patriot act. It was originaly passed by congress in a hurry post 911. A sunset act was left with it. The patriot act is being modified so that certain conditions have to apply in order for activity to take place. These conditions are for supected terrorist, etc. They are not worried about me or you smoking a joint in our back yard. But it has became completely obvious that this sorry bitch has nothing better to do then hate on his own country. Not just reguarding this matter, but everything this country does he is agaisnt. I am happy and lucky to be where I am. I refuse to listen to a fellow american piss on this country time and time again. With the obvious attempts to do so. That is why he is the first person on my ignore list.

theking · 02-12-2003, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wonton

I am trying to perserve America and its freedoms.

You are lazily and ignorantly alllowing it to slip away.

Who's the real bitch?

I will read the material but not now as I am busy. I am sure that I will find parts that bother me, but over all I do not think that the government is about taking everyones rights away and becoming a dictatorship. What I do think is we are at war at this very moment against terrorists that would harm the country and its people. This war is just as real as any conflict that we have engaged in. The Administration stated from the beginning that the war could last years, as many as ten years. Just today I heard two Senators state that the war will last 20-30 years. I personally think that it may very well be forever. I personally believe that the government is trying to put in place tools that will help them prosecute the war on terrorists and are not about persecuting or prosecuting the American people per se. Will certain powers be abused, probably, but we have checks and balances that will smooth out the rough edges over time. It really does not make a lot of difference what is enacted by the Congress as the Supreme Court is the ultimate abritrator about what is constitutional and what is not. I am not alarmed and I do not believe the sky is falling.

ChrisH · 02-12-2003, 03:30 PM

theking,
Some people are just unbeleivable. Go do a search on google for the Patriot Act, you will find two dozen or more active watchdog groups that are watching every move the government makes using this act and watching them closely!!

The Act expires in December 2005 so if they abuse it it will be GONE! Just like in the 70's when the FBI, and CIA were curtailed because of their surveilence practices. It will happen again if need be. All these "blame America first" idiots are just foaming at the mouth any chance they get.

As you said there are things I don't like in the Act, and things that are a no brainer IMO. Like wire tapping for instance. Why shouldn't the government be allowed to tap a "person" not just a phone line. If they have probable cause and a warrent, warrent being the KEYWORD here, they should be able to tap the person.

Eitherway it doesn't matter. The same people that "claim" it's about oil. Will spew there garbage no matter what!

wonton · 02-12-2003, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by theking

I will read the material but not now as I am busy. I am sure that I will find parts that bother me, but over all I do not think that the government is about taking everyones rights away and becoming a dictatorship. What I do think is we are at war at this very moment against terrorists that would harm the country and its people. This war is just as real as any conflict that we have engaged in. The Administration stated from the beginning that the war could last years, as many as ten years. Just today I heard two Senators state that the war will last 20-30 years. I personally think that it may very well be forever. I personally believe that the government is trying to put in place tools that will help them prosecute the war on terrorists and are not about persecuting or prosecuting the American people per se. Will certain powers be abused, probably, but we have checks and balances that will smooth out the rough edges over time. It really does not make a lot of difference what is enacted by the Congress as the Supreme Court is the ultimate abritrator about what is constitutional and what is not. I am not alarmed and I do not believe the sky is falling.

When we survey the history of America, we find that the government has historically done exactly that - consistently erode our individual rights and liberties. The America of 1776, 1876, 1976 and today were each very different place vis a vis freedom. In the old west, the local sherrif kept basic law and order in the town. Other than a few very basic laws, you were pretty much free to do whatever the hell you pleased. If you wanted to smoke opium in the center of town, you could do that. Life was not like the movie Tombstone or other westerns that completely exaggerate the amount of violence and gunplay in society. Shoot-outs were relatively rare.

Fast-forward to today and there a billion and one little laws that have been passed by local, state and federal governments. They even have laws that dictate that you can lose your job if you comment on your co-workers fine looking ass or tell an off-color joke. Laws like that would have been completely unthinkable just 40 years ago. If you proposed "sexual harrasment" laws in the 1950s in order to "protect" people, the general poplulation would have laughed their asses off. "You mean laws like the commies have? No thanks!".

We are more micro-managed today by the forces of government than ever before. If you transplanted a man from 1876 in to today's America he would probably die of shock from all the constraints placed on his life by the "authorities". And we haven't seen anything yet...

The world ten or twenty years from now will be as different as 1876 compared to 2003. Governments all throughout history have always tried (and succeeded) in gaining ever more greater levels of control over their poplulace. It is the (unfortuante) natural progression of societies. America has been the standout in world history. Only time will tell whether they remain so or not.

wonton · 02-12-2003, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ChrisH
theking,
Some people are just unbeleivable. Go do a search on google for the Patriot Act, you will find two dozen or more active watchdog groups that are watching every move the government makes using this act and watching them closely!!

The Act expires in December 2005 so if they abuse it it will be GONE! Just like in the 70's when the FBI, and CIA were curtailed because of their surveilence practices. It will happen again if need be. All these "blame America first" idiots are just foaming at the mouth any chance they get.

As you said there are things I don't like in the Act, and things that are a no brainer IMO. Like wire tapping for instance. Why shouldn't the government be allowed to tap a "person" not just a phone line. If they have probable cause and a warrent, warrent being the KEYWORD here, they should be able to tap the person.

Eitherway it doesn't matter. The same people that "claim" it's about oil. Will spew there garbage no matter what!

You are dead wrong. Another person who just prints something without doing any reading himself. The so-called "sunset clause" pertains to one very insignificant sub-section of the act. The great bulk of the act HAS NO SUNSET CLAUSE. And what little sunset provision is there, will be obliterated by Patriot Act II.

Can you read? If so, read the act yourself and don't rely on second or third hand information. The watchdog groups you are referring to are saying much the same thing I am saying.

Rochard · 02-12-2003, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by playa
The president already has a shit load of executive orders that he can put in place without the approval of congress,,

like martial law and there is also an order to basically making citizen a slave to the government

so this isn't really much different

I was gonna say..... The US Government has powers that we aren't even aware of. They can send the US Army into any town across the country and kick out everyone.

You can twist words around in thousands of ways. For example, the President needs Congress's approval to declare war. Simple problem - Don't declare war, and call it a military action.

02-12-2003, 01:23 PM	#1
wonton Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 802	Patriot Act II: Americans...Kiss Your Rights Goodbye!!! Yeah. Yeah. It's me again. Call me a conspiracy nut if you will but did anyone actually read the new proposed "anti-terrorism bill"? Link to Patriot Act II in PDF Format I've personally read 150 pages of Patriot Act I and all pages of Patriot Act II. It is important to note that a tiny clause in Patriot Act I essentially defined terrorism as the breaking of any federal or state law... Here is an excellent and concise analysis by Alex Jones: TOTAL POLICE STATE TAKEOVER The Secret Patriot Act II Destroys What Is Left of American Liberty A Brief Analysis of the Domestic Security Enhancement Act 2003, Also Known as Patriot Act II By Alex Jones www.infowars.com (Posted Feb 10, 2003) Congressman Ron Paul (R-Tex) told the Washington Times that no member of Congress was allowed to read the first Patriot Act that was passed by the House on October 27, 2001. The first Patriot Act was universally decried by civil libertarians and Constitutional scholars from across the political spectrum. William Safire, while writing for the New York Times, described the first Patriot Act?s powers by saying that President Bush was ?seizing dictatorial control. On February 7, 2003 the Center for Public Integrity, a non-partisan public interest think-tank in DC, revealed the full text of the Domestic Security Enhancement Act of 2003. The classified document had been leaked to them by an unnamed source inside the Federal government. The document consisted of a 33-page section by section analysis of the accompanying 87-page bill. *Note: On February 10, 2003 I discovered that not only was there a house version that had been covertly brought to Hastert, but that many provisions of the now public Patriot Act II had already been introduced as pork barrel riders on Senate Bill S. 22. Dozens of subsections and even the titles of the subsections are identical to those in the House version. This is very important because it catches the Justice Department in a bald-faced lie. The Justice Department claimed that the secret legislation brought into the House was only for study, and that at this time there was no intention to try and pass it. Now upon reading S. 22, it is clear that the leadership of the Senate is fully aware of the Patriot Act II, and have passed these riders out of their committees into the full bill. I spent two hours scanning through S. 22 and, let me tell you, it is a nightmare for anyone who loves liberty. It even contains the Our Lady of Peace Act that registers all gun owners. It bans the private sale of all firearms, creates a Federal ballistics database, and much more. The bill itself is stamped ?Confidential ? Not for Distribution.? Upon reading the analysis and bill, I was stunned by the scientifically crafted tyranny contained in the legislation. The Justice Department Office of Legislative Affairs admits that they had indeed covertly transmitted a copy of the legislation to Speaker of the House Dennis Hastert, (R-Il) and the Vice President of the United States, Dick Cheney as well as the executive heads of federal law enforcement agencies. It is important to note that no member of Congress was allowed to see the first Patriot Act before its passage, and that no debate was tolerate by the House and Senate leadership. The intentions of the White House and Speaker Hastert concerning Patriot Act II appear to be a carbon copy replay of the events that led to the unprecedented passage of the first Patriot Act. There are two glaring areas that need to be looked at concerning this new legislation: 1. The secretive tactics being used by the White House and Speaker Hastert to keep even the existence of this legislation secret would be more at home in Communist China than in the United States. The fact that Dick Cheney publicly managed the steamroller passage of the first Patriot Act, insuring that no one was allowed to read it and publicly threatening members of Congress that if they didn?t vote in favor of it that they would be blamed for the next terrorist attack, is by the White House?s own definition terrorism. The move to clandestinely craft and then bully passage of any legislation by the Executive Branch is clearly an impeachable offence. 2. The second Patriot Act is a mirror image of powers that Julius Caesar and Adolf Hitler gave themselves. Whereas the First Patriot Act only gutted the First, Third, Fourth and Fifth Amendments, and seriously damaged the Seventh and the Tenth, the Second Patriot Act reorganizes the entire Federal government as well as many areas of state government under the dictatorial control of the Justice Department, the Office of Homeland Security and the FEMA NORTHCOM military command. The Domestic Security Enhancement Act 2003, also known as the Second Patriot Act is by its very structure the definition of dictatorship. I challenge all Americans to study the new Patriot Act and to compare it to the Constitution, Bill of Rights and Declaration of Independence. Ninety percent of the act has nothing to do with terrorism and is instead a giant Federal power-grab with tentacles reaching into every facet of our society. It strips American citizens of all of their rights and grants the government and its private agents total immunity. Here is a quick thumbnail sketch of just some of the draconian measures encapsulated within this tyrannical legislation: SECTION 501 (Expatriation of Terrorists) expands the Bush administration?s ?enemy combatant? definition to all American citizens who ?may? have violated any provision of Section 802 of the first Patriot Act. ..... Full Text of Above Analysis Here

02-12-2003, 01:43 PM	#5
Brujah Beer Money Baron Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: brujah / gmail Posts: 22,157	Your point ? ;) __________________ Free Premium Domain Lists and Tools at Clickmojo.com For Sale: Obscenity.com

02-12-2003, 01:47 PM	#9
FATPad Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 6,693	Crap! The sky is falling! Better move your domains to someplace completely free like Germany, where they can't yank your domains off the net for no reason! __________________ <a href="http://www.adultcontent.co.uk">Adult Content UK - Great British Content</a>

02-12-2003, 01:47 PM	#10
Libertine sex dwarf Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 17,860	Reading the damn thing right now, and it's creeping the fuck out of me. __________________ /(bb\|[^b]{2})/

02-12-2003, 02:29 PM	#26
WendyB Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Woodinville Posts: 538	I bought my duct tape already. 2 rolls for $5.oo at home depot __________________ An act of kindness is a wonderful gift

02-12-2003, 01:35 PM	#3
ElvisManson Looking California Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 5,476	If what he says is true...is is fucking scary.

02-12-2003, 01:36 PM	#4
ChrisH Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: New York Posts: 1,355

02-12-2003, 01:45 PM	#6
OneHungLo So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Location: Your mom's front hole Posts: 40,906	Shouldnt you be out making osama bin laden tapes?

02-12-2003, 01:46 PM	#8
kenny Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 7,245	We already covered this topic ounce today

02-12-2003, 01:50 PM	#12
Massivecock Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 800	Exactly what I have been saying for 1 year staight now! And to think everyone called me a Conspiracy freak. Its a complete takeover. Just like I have been saying! -- You people have no clue! Wonton Your on the Ball by friend! For all you non-believers. Ignorance is not bliss!

02-12-2003, 02:00 PM	#13
kenny Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 7,245	We already went over this ounce today...

02-12-2003, 02:05 PM	#15
kenny Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 7,245	20 years, that is good I plan on having my own country by then

02-12-2003, 02:07 PM	#16
kenny Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 7,245	What country do you conspiracy people come from if I may ask?

02-12-2003, 02:15 PM	#19
ElvisManson Looking California Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 5,476	You may now start referring to GW as Nehemiah Scudder ( for anyone that knows Heinlen)

02-12-2003, 02:41 PM	#31
Kris Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 940	Alex Jones = freak __________________ I am the walrus.

02-12-2003, 02:47 PM	#34
kenny Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 7,245	I am going outside to drink a beer and clean my AK47. Mabye they will take secert photos of me and use them to steal all of the oil in Iraq somehow. I refuse to argue or post in these retarded anti-american threads anymore. A waste of time. I am enjoying my life as a free american.

02-12-2003, 02:47 PM	#35
goBigtime Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 7,761	Like it's funny that some people claim they are visted by aliens who say they have destroyed their own planet with weapons and are forced to lived undergound, and are trying to warn us about the possible destruction of ours.... But on the other hand its sort of sad kinda like that?

02-12-2003, 02:55 PM	#38
goBigtime Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 7,761	This guy knows whats up... It's the only way to block the Y-rays. Protect Your Mind. Sheeple Unite! Really wonton.. people don't care (enough) to do anything or question anything more than just a verbal "WTF?!.. cRazy.. I need a hamburger". We're kept too busy ratracing around these days to worry about stuff like reading 400 page Patriot Act's. Maybe If you could summarize what your trying to say in a 30 second commercial slot between Friends and American Idol you would have a better shot at it.

02-12-2003, 02:58 PM	#42
Joe Sixpack So Fucking Banned Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 3,793	"Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one." ~President Thomas Jefferson. "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." ~Benjamin Franklin

02-12-2003, 03:02 PM	#43
ChrisH Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: New York Posts: 1,355

02-12-2003, 03:08 PM	#44
playa Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: atlanta, GA Posts: 6,432	The president already has a shit load of executive orders that he can put in place without the approval of congress,, like martial law and there is also an order to basically making citizen a slave to the government so this isn't really much different

02-12-2003, 03:30 PM	#47
ChrisH Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: New York Posts: 1,355	theking, Some people are just unbeleivable. Go do a search on google for the Patriot Act, you will find two dozen or more active watchdog groups that are watching every move the government makes using this act and watching them closely!! The Act expires in December 2005 so if they abuse it it will be GONE! Just like in the 70's when the FBI, and CIA were curtailed because of their surveilence practices. It will happen again if need be. All these "blame America first" idiots are just foaming at the mouth any chance they get. As you said there are things I don't like in the Act, and things that are a no brainer IMO. Like wire tapping for instance. Why shouldn't the government be allowed to tap a "person" not just a phone line. If they have probable cause and a warrent, warrent being the KEYWORD here, they should be able to tap the person. Eitherway it doesn't matter. The same people that "claim" it's about oil. Will spew there garbage no matter what!