UK Law Changes? RGB Cash Shutting Down... Why?

[Socks]

Just got this e-mail... What law changes?

Hi All

RGBCash (Ukpussytalk.com and Sexshowvideos.com)
Because of law changes in the UK, we are no longer accepting new subscriptions to our sites. Thank you for your traffic over the last few years.

regards

Richard B
rgbcash.com

[Paul Markham]

Go ask on B&B.

[Socks]

Go ask on B&B.

[SubAms]

Just got this e-mail... What law changes?

Hi All

RGBCash (Ukpussytalk.com and Sexshowvideos.com)
Because of law changes in the UK, we are no longer accepting new subscriptions to our sites. Thank you for your traffic over the last few years.

regards

Richard B
rgbcash.com

There's a new licencing authority in the UK called ATVOD and they're making it unworkable for UK webmasters to operate adult sites.
Some of the main things being:
Not allowed to accept debit cards, as under 18s can use them.
Not allowed to show explicit pics and trailers on sites without verifying the age of surfers.
The licence has reduced from about £3000 per site per year to £300 as sites were just moving offshore but if you were to licence they then have the power to censor free areas.

or something like that...

edited to say it doesn't affect me or my sites

[Socks]

There's a new licencing authority in the UK called ATVOD and they're making it unworkable for UK webmasters to operate adult sites.
Some of the main things being:
Not allowed to accept debit cards, as under 18s can use them.
Not allowed to show explicit pics and trailers on sites without verifying the age of surfers.
The licence has reduced from about £3000 per site per year to £300 as sites were just moving offshore but if you were to licence they then have the power to censor free areas.

or something like that...

edited to say it doesn't affect me or my sites

Wow that's pretty crazy, wonder if that's a sign of things to come in North America too... Does it apply to free sites as well as paysites? Like if you have a network of 1,000 blogs they think you're going to cough up $300k pounds?! What's the point of putting all these people out of business?

As a Canadian, I used to really want to visit England. It was top 3 on my list. Now I think I'd go on a free trip, but that's about it.. Seems like the laws are very tight over there, the weather is shit, etc. I've had friends go there and say they didn't like it, which is strange.. Seems like the only thing interesting about England these days is its history. Just my ignorant opinion from someone whose never stepped foot there, but my sense of what England is has changed a lot from my ideas of old to what I read today.

[247mg]

Rubbish. To be honest

[SubAms]

Wow that's pretty crazy, wonder if that's a sign of things to come in North America too... Does it apply to free sites as well as paysites? Like if you have a network of 1,000 blogs they think you're going to cough up $300k pounds?!

There's a £25k per year cap although they haven't decided the amount for smaller companies yet.
The tariffs and details are all on their site
http://www.atvod.co.uk/

Bootybox have already closed their site after this
http://www.atvod.co.uk/uploads/files...ion_091211.pdf
more and more are being investigated daily.

It's meant to be rolling out across Europe..

[DamianJ]

It applies to any site that provides videos that people can watch. It's nothing to do with adult specifically. According the the law, a cookery website that had video instruction would need to pay. Or offshore.

[NewNick]

Rubbish. To be honest

Agreed.

[SubAms]

It applies to any site that provides videos that people can watch. It's nothing to do with adult specifically. According the the law, a cookery website that had video instruction would need to pay. Or offshore.

sure but they would only have to pay the licence fee whereas adult have a list of unworkable rules to adhere to

[kazbalah]

Maybe this is an alternative to SOPA type laws.. make it so people have to pay insane amounts to host adult sites, then only big companies can do it, less competition and less shady operators..

[Tijuana_Tom]

The UK did some studies and decided it's people especially the youth are too addicted to sex and pornography.

What's ironic is the UK is notorious for it's perverts but now suddenly it's not ok?

Pretty soon they will limit the amount of alcohol you can drink.

Is it because of Muslim influence?

[AllAboutCams]

dont use .co.uk

[livexxx]

Pretty soon they will limit the amount of alcohol you can drink.

Minimum prices are being mooted to be applied to alcohol too.

[Paul Markham]

How do they deal with the situation of sites outside the UK being viewed inside the UK?

[AdultKing]

Maybe I am missing something but what's to stop sites just moving their services offshore and ensuring that editorial responsibility is shifted to a holding company in another jurisdiction ?

[freecartoonporn]

buhahaha stupid people.

[DamianJ]

The UK did some studies and decided it's people especially the youth are too addicted to sex and pornography.

No, the Daily Mail, notorious lie-fest published some shit about that.

Please link to the original research.

[DamianJ]

Maybe I am missing something but what's to stop sites just moving their services offshore and ensuring that editorial responsibility is shifted to a holding company in another jurisdiction ?

Nothing whatsoever, which is what most people have done.

[DamianJ]

How do they deal with the situation of sites outside the UK being viewed inside the UK?

What has that got to do with anything, and how could they stop it anyway, if it was their remit to stop that, which it isn't.

[Paul Markham]

What has that got to do with anything, and how could they stop it anyway, if it was their remit to stop that, which it isn't.

So the whole thing about "licensing" is just what is home produced.

As for the EU adopting the same policies, will that include the same rules on porn related sites? Because every country has different rules on porn. Here I can buy porn in most petrol stations, newspaper/magazine shops and newsstands and DVD shops.

Seems to me just another way to raise taxes.

Whether or not they decide to block sites that don't conform to UK is another question.

How do UK based Tube sites fair under this law?

[DamianJ]

So the whole thing about "licensing" is just what is home produced.

Yes. As it clearly states.

[adultmobile]

This seems pretty like what's in place in Germany since long time:

-------------
ATVOD requires is that there should be in place a Content Access Control System "CAC"
Acceptable for age verification purposes include:
- Confirmation of credit card ownership or other form of payment where mandatory proof that the holder is 18 or over is required prior to issue.
- A reputable personal digital identity management service which uses checks on an independent and reliable database, such as the electoral roll.
- Other comparable proof of account ownership which effectively verifies age.
-------------

Plus the tax thing, this is a different issue.

So EU is going to disable cookies so can't use affiliate tracking, also can't show anything naked prior to payment made. Long live the russian webmasters?

[Paul Markham]

This seems pretty like what's in place in Germany since long time:

-------------
ATVOD requires is that there should be in place a Content Access Control System "CAC"
Acceptable for age verification purposes include:
- Confirmation of credit card ownership or other form of payment where mandatory proof that the holder is 18 or over is required prior to issue.
- A reputable personal digital identity management service which uses checks on an independent and reliable database, such as the electoral roll.
- Other comparable proof of account ownership which effectively verifies age.
-------------

Plus the tax thing, this is a different issue.

So EU is going to disable cookies so can't use affiliate tracking, also can't show anything naked prior to payment made. Long live the russian webmasters?

All this will mean to the rest of us is there will be a lot of cheap UK based sites to buy or move traffic away from. The big ones will move out of the UK or license and adapt.

The porn industry doesn't rely on UK sites, it relies far more on UK based buyers. They will still be there. Not heard anything about it becoming law, here in CZ and will wait until I do.

[adultmobile]

It is especially fucked because these atvod specifically say that ccbill, epoch are not compliant, from their sentence on terminated Bootybox:

"CCBill.com and Epoch could process debit card payments. Since a debit card can be held by a person under the age of 18, ATVOD has made clear in Guidance that possession of such a card can not be regarded as confirming age.
The UKash payment system (embeded in Epoch) fell short of being an effective content access control mechanism. Ageverification took place only if the relevant vouchers were bought from one of the three possible types of retailer."

Any parent can be a spy and report own kid watching an adult site:

http://www.atvod.co.uk/regulated-ser...ified-services

"inclusion within this Directory merely confirms that we have received a notification"

I quickly browsed I could find mostly UK adult sites, one I know it is onlytease.com and art-lingerie.com ... regarding art-lingerie it shows naked in home , and anyway even no naked previews and using ccbill or epoch for member area would not make it compliant, now I wonder.
As they require:

----------
ATVOD requires is that there should be in place a Content Access Control System "CAC"
Acceptable for age verification purposes include:
- Confirmation of credit card ownership or other form of payment where mandatory proof that the holder is 18 or over is required prior to issue.
- A reputable personal digital identity management service which uses checks on an independent and reliable database, such as the electoral roll.
- Other comparable proof of account ownership which effectively verifies age.
----------

But in reality, no online adult verification service like this technically exists for UK. An UK webmaster can not apply to some government-provided and supported AVS service or standard, they simply say you're not compliant and not even show a single compliant site, as no one exists or can exist. At least in germany they made some standards for adult verification, maybe Nathan knows these as used to run german sites too, but no wonder manwin is in Canada, could not run pornhub as german entity - and not as uk one anymore too.

At some point in the future all adult sites will have to move under some rebel island not compliant with usa, canada, euro union and australia laws (in meantime all banning nudity and cookies), let's bump this thread in 2015 and 2020 for news.

[Barry-xlovecam]

The whole age verification scheme was found unconstitutional and struck down in the COPA trial years ago in the USA. So, this type of legislation is a no-starter in the USA but the same overall goals could be attempted by other means.

You are right about the cookie tracking tho ... If it can be made to work in the EU it will see its international adoption in varying forms.

English law has been evolving into an anti-porn stance for some time and I am surprised it didn't end up in the courts there. However, if the German porn laws are an example, it just may be allowed under the EU charter.

This is a fine example of how a government will protect its citizens from the evils of Internet Porn ... Most cannot make the content illegal but they will try to make its creation and distribution as difficult as possible.

World governments cannot successfully censor the Internet totally -- there are too many back doors out; China and the Islamic states are a good example. This scares the piss out of the worlds governments as they cannot control the exchange of information -- porn is just a side show, albeit a popular diversion of the day to day existence of most people.

Australia is a good example of what the UK censorship laws may produce and that is a harbinger of bad tiding ...

[VIXEN ESCORTS]

Lets not go crazy here, firstly cookies are not being banned, websites merely have to inform their users of the cookie policy, just like terms and conditions, privacy policy which we all ignore anyway. You can use ccbill and epoch to process debit cards PROVIDED you verify that the person is over 18 and there is a solution in the UK. Costs a bit though. The act that Atvod use as their bible actually only talks about content that could seriously impair a minor, pretty extreme stuff, sado masochistic, cp, acts causing physical harm etc.
What ATvod have done is "IN THEIR JUDGEMENT" extended it to regular explicit stuff, open pussy cum shots, cocks etc.Because you can't show any of that stuff on TV and we are all TV channels now. Atvod is all about a level playing field between online and TV. By the way, apparently only in the UK did the regulator decide to include adult sites !!

[Paul Markham]

This is just another example of how politicians will fuck an economy.

The UK based businesses online will have to adhere to this. Those operating outside the UK can sell to the UK as much as they like and not bother.

I'm not in favor of no political involvement, just no stupid political involvement.

I know I'm a dreamer.

[Emil]

I cant stand all the shit politicians make people go through. This will just lead to more businesses moving offshore and less tax-money to the UK.

[DamianJ]

I'm not in favor of no political involvement, just no stupid political involvement.

Can't have one without the other.

Seems like you are always in favour of governments censoring the web, handing them powers to shut off sites at will, and now you are getting what you want, you've realised it is bad?

Heheh. You're a funny little thing.

/me ruffles your hair

[Paul Markham]

Can't have one without the other.

Seems like you are always in favour of governments censoring the web, handing them powers to shut off sites at will, and now you are getting what you want, you've realised it is bad?

Heheh. You're a funny little thing.

/me ruffles your hair

Can you make an announcement regarding the UK sites you market for. Affiliates need to be told.

I'm in favor of online following offline laws, where it's possible. IMO without blocking non UK sites that don't comply this is an exercise in futility.

Have you informed ATVOD of this?

I have. Waiting for a reply.

[DamianJ]

Can you make an announcement regarding the UK sites you market for. Affiliates need to be told.

Announcement regarding what Paul? No sites I work for are affected by ATVOD.

Have you informed ATVOD of this?

Inform ATVOD of what?

I have. Waiting for a reply.

But you are not based in the UK, what did you tell them and why do you think they'd care?

[VIXEN ESCORTS]

Don't be too harsh on ATVOD please, I mean first of all it means that DVTIMES got a sign-up this year to his sites. And the woman I spoke to at Atvod said they're "only small" and that's why they're struggling to get around all the sites in an equitable manner. I believe her, those ATVOD people work damn hard, 11pm Bank Holiday evening in the UK those ATVOD people were diligently perusing Black Vixen......well according to Strongbox, they were )

[MaDalton]

why doesnt someone develop an age verifaction service? Germany has that since 10 years or so and a couple of companies made really good money with that.

it's not convenient but its also not the end of the world

(going offshore is the other solution to that)

[VIXEN ESCORTS]

There is an age verification service and I will be using it, I was just laughing at the fact that Atvod employees were jacking off to Black Vixen late one bank holiday Monday.....Unless of course they DO really work that hard. People might think I am a cunt but I have been moaning for the last 8 years about how the UK adult industry is mainly a bunch of gonzo dickheads who make jack shit and just pretend to run adult websites so they can get a discounted fuck. I do real LOL's when I see them shitting their pants now.

[VIXEN ESCORTS]

Also there has been no law change in the UK. The law that is being "quoted" dates back to 2003, Labour government, what has changed is that a "quango" has been appointed that has made "subjective" additions to how they enforce that law. Ripe for a challenge in the courts, but when the counter argument is "we are protecting children" what are the chances ?

[adultmobile]

There is an age verification service and I will be using it.

What service is that, there any link?

[VIXEN ESCORTS]

Sure ATVOD endorsed age verification

[smashits]

On business front, I can understand why so many people related with adult industry are disappointed.

But,think of it in this way,it will help our children to stay away from these sites.Not only this,it will put restriction on Child pornography stuff.

I think it is a good move from UK Goverment.

[DamianJ]

But,think of it in this way,it will help our children to stay away from these sites.

Think it through.

You are a 15 year old boy wanting a wank.

You are not allowed to join UK pay sites. But you can get ANYTHING you want from tube sites for free.

Doh!

It's got nothing to do with stopping kids accessing porn, and everything to do with generating revenue.

Not only this,it will put restriction on Child pornography stuff.

How?

I think it is a good move from UK Goverment.

It's not.

[Freaky_Akula]

Damian owned smashits with common sense and logic.

[DVTimes]

rather than moan, if your in the uk write to your mp.

I did.

------------------------------

Dear Sir/Madam,

RE: ATVOD

I am writing to you regarding ATVOD (Authority for Television On Demand).

In the last year or so UK based (adult and I believe non adult) websites (that have films) have been subjected to a bizarre tax from ATVOD.

Basically if a site is in the UK and contains films the owner now needs to pay a HUGE fee and comply by many rules.

The rules (as I believe them to be) state that this only applies to:

• Sites in the UK. But this is the owner uploads content from the UK. Thus if the owner moves outside the UK (or claims to) he/she does not pay a fee or have to comply by the rules.
• Only certain sites. Sites that are ‘user generated’ are exempt. Thus if the sites lets people upload there own films then the sites is exempt.

The ATVOD rules also mean that the member’s area must not take certain types of cards. This means that the main (all in fact) payment processors are no longer viable. In other words ATVOD are stopping sites from using payment processing.

Many UK sites are simply changing there ‘whois’ (contact info) details so ATVOD cannot contact them, and thus ATVOD have no idea if the sites are UK based or not.

The result is many UK sites are simply closing as they are unable to operate, or moving outside the UK.

Thus a site that makes a small income for a model has to close. But a large sites that makes millions but has content provided by the public, is exempt.

This also means that if your outside the UK you can operated with no problems, but those in the UK are shut down.



One must question what the point of the ATVOD is? While it’s a tax, its rather pointless as the result is that MANY UK sites are now closing and thus as sites close that’s less tax. Also I know a lot of models now closing there sites and going on the dole. So ATVOD will mean less tax paid. ATVOD has no benefits to anyone.

Porn sites shoot models aged 18 or older. They have full ID of the models. By shutting down the sites the net will simply be full of ‘free’ porn. We will see more porn tube sites open (thus children will see it, while at the moment its in protected members areas). No one will know how old the models are (as it will simply be uploaded all over). No one can contact those in the films (at the moment you can if you can contact the pay site).

To sum up, ATVOD will simply shut down UK websites (both adult and non adult), but non UK sites will do better. It will mean more people on the dole. It will mean that less tax will be raised.

One can only conclude that those who support ATVOD wish to put people on the dole and shut UK businesses down. It seems rather odd.

I write this to point out that ATVOD needs to be scraped. Many people simply cannot afford to pay the license fee. But why should they pay even £1 when its not giving them any benefits and those outside the UK pay nothing.

I have a female friend who set up a website. She has now had to close it and is now on the dole. She was looking at earning £30k (estimated) a year, and was going to employ staff to help run the site. But instead is on the dole and cannot understand why the government is doing its best to keep her and her friends on the dole.

On the other hand I see on webmaster forums that site owners in the USA are celebrating ATVOD as they have seen there membership increase and making even more money.

[DamianJ]

On the other hand I see on webmaster forums that site owners in the USA are celebrating ATVOD as they have seen there membership increase and making even more money.

lol

more lies from DVTimes.

[SGS]

Surprised at SBB to be honest. They jumped in bed with the bogus web certification thing and then with .xxx too. lol

[BaldBishop]

What does this mean for companies like CrakCash? I have noticed they have a London address in their footer.

[DVTimes]

Just to make it clear:

If you have no vids on your site then they have no power over you. Its only if you have vids.

If the content is user generated, your excempt. By this if say you just run the site but others upload then your excempt. So tube sites are excempt.

One must remeber that just becase a domain name is registered to you does not mean you run the site(s).

One could sugest that if the UK sites buys content rather than shoot it. And if the site uses an automatic content organiser in the members area. One could sugest that the content provider uploads the content via tfp. In such a case one could argue under there rules that the site is excempt as no one in the uk (if the content is bought from a non uk place) is editing the content. Thus under the rules one is excemp.

[DVTimes]

To be honest I do wonder if its against competition laws.

By this the uk is putting uk businesses at a huge disadvantage to other eu and non eu countries.

i do wonder if uk sites could even sue the uk goverment.

[VIXEN ESCORTS]

I do wonder if the person from Atvod who reviewed BritishSlags.com was able to claim damages !

[DVTimes]

On business front, I can understand why so many people related with adult industry are disappointed.

But,think of it in this way,it will help our children to stay away from these sites.Not only this,it will put restriction on Child pornography stuff.

I think it is a good move from UK Goverment.

Surly it will increase CP.

The advantage of pay sites is that you have a contact to fiond out how old the models are and it sort of self regulates.

By closing pay sites you loose this.

At the same time porn tube sites are not part of the rules. With these anyone can upload from camera phones. I know some main big tube sites have underaged content. One I was told about is a girl who is 16 (from Liverpool) who is gang banged by 5 lads. The thing is how do you know how old people are and if they gave concent to be on the site?

Also while the licence may make a few pounds, by moving sites outside the UK or closing them it makes less tax.

Most sites are run as a hobby, not a business.

[DVTimes]

Maybe I am missing something but what's to stop sites just moving their services offshore and ensuring that editorial responsibility is shifted to a holding company in another jurisdiction ?

Nothing.

In fact somone like paul could make good cash by setting up a site ofering to edit everything outside the uk.

he does not even need to, just claim he does. and people in the uk just say he does everything.

its why the whole thing is a farce.

very soon people will find ways around it, lets be honest.

lets face it, you can get around paying tax in the uk.