He may be a skinny guy. But it doesn't mean that he has a healthy level of testosterone. A blood test for free t would confirm that quickly.

I read a doctors report that said the average man of 60 has LESS testosterone in their body than an 18 year old girl. And testosterone is what makes you a man. If your dad's testosterone levels were where they should be he would feel even better and be even more healthy and strong.

Nothing wrong with "better" is there? :)

You don't jab yourself with a needle daily. That's diabetics with insulin.

Once a week is more than enough. And I knew a guy who is in his 20's but had a genetic testosterone deficiency who took injections once every 2 weeks.

The misinformation about men's hormones is pretty bad out there.

Bottom line: the average man's body creates the MOST testosterone by the time they are 18 years old (that's why your dick was always hard all day long). By the time your 30...production is decreasing FAST. By the time you are middle-aged...you're practically a girl (hormonally speaking).

But we aren't cavemen living to the rip old age of 32 anymore. We have made huge strides in medicine and sanitation that now have healthy folks living to be 100 years old.

Even if you only make it to 80...you are going to live the majority of your life with low testosterone levels. But you don't have to. And tens of millions of men in the U.S. go to the doctor and take care of that.

You want to know why guys like George Clooney and Brad Pitt are 50 years old and look great? Hollywood stars have been taking advantage of modern science for decades now.
Hell, they are taking test and HGH and kicking ass.

You can too if you choose to. Just don't mess with it until you are around 40.

1. You dont jab yourself every day. an HRT based testosterone is usually a more prolonged released testosterone (long ester) Usually Testosterone Cypionate Or Testosterone Decanoate. These only need to be used 1x per week for Cyp, or 1x every 10 days for Dec.

2. There are no negative side effects associated with bringing your levels back to normal homeostasis. You have to realize HRT is different than taking anabolics for the sole reason of mass building. An HRT dose is about 150-250mg per week where as a Muscle building dose ranges anywhere from 500-1000mg per week.

3. Artificial testosterone is synthesized in a lab and come from plant sterols from yams or soy.

Are you on steroids?

No I do not. I will be competing an an all natural NPC polygraphed show in august.

the reduction is not permanent...even without post cycle therapy your natural serum testosterone will return to normal...even if your balls literally shrink to raisins they can be restored in less than a week with some post cycle therapy or even during the cycle...I can make my balls large like mandarins and shoot cum like a horse if I wanted...

you simply do not know the difference between an educated user and the average dip shit kid who is looking for a short cut...

testicular size is not a direct correlation of your levels being back to normal. it can take up to 3 months. Only true way to tell is with a blood test

testosterone levels are less important to some than ball size and load volume :1orglaugh but you are right they may not be in direct correlation...

On that peter north clomid diet? hahaha

Physicians should start taking records of their patient's test levels when they're 18 because who's to say your test is low if it was never measured?

Because there is a level of free testosterone that is an average level in an 18 year old. Just like there are levels of other things in your blood that determine all kinds of things.
As you age those levels drop.

They DO have years of numbers on how much testosterone a healthy young man has in his system. And they also have years on the numbers for people as they age.

If you are below certain level of free testosterone in your blood you have a deficiency. And even if you are at the lower end of "acceptable" you aren't gonna feel as good as you could with levels closer to the higher end of normal. :)

That's a lot different than what I was referring to, these guys on facebook have died in their early 20's from overdosing and they have thousands of fans excited about what great shape they had. All I'm saying is it's beyond dumb to be so vein your risk life to impress people you don't know.

Who are you referring to that has died? Exogenous hormones can not cause death, they can however magnify a pre-existing problem.

Steroids will kill you soon or late.

The long term side effects are IRREVERSIBLE and anyone saying different is full of shit. Consider this as free advice.

Anyway, if you don't believe me, just try for yourself, its your own BODY. There is no going back to the damage and HARM STEROIDS or HGH will do to your ORGANS and body.

Period.

Life will also kill you sooner or later. Frank Zane, Arnold, Lou Ferrigno. All professional level BBer's who used for decades and are still alive and kicking into their 60's and 70's. Not to mention when they have used there was no where near the plethora of information and knowledge there is now (no blood work done, no post cycle therapy used, and cycled for months on end). HGH and insulin used by BBer's today, that is what causes premature deaths ON TOP OF steroid ABUSE. Things are different nowadays

You guys keep switching from steroids to HGH to testosterone. Is one much safer than the other?

I was under the impression (but really I have no clue) that tess is a safe solution as it's something that you produce naturally and if you keep it at a certain level you aren't damaging yourself.

I have no clue about HGH, and steroids I've heard can do some serious long term damage. I'm sure there are cases where by appearance you don't see issues but who knows what is going on inside these people.

Would "everything in moderation" work here, or are these things something that you need to do on schedule forever to get and then keep the results?

Fuck steroids :pimp

but that's just it, is it healthy to have heightened amounts of testosterone in your body after your body stops producing it naturally? The death rate of wrestlers and football players before 55 is through the roof. They keep speculating it has more to do with the brain injuries, but brain injuries don't cause heart attacks--steroids do though.

as for being a man, my dad is still a bad ass.. was visiting with him last year and saw his knuckles all bashed up. It took a while to get it out of him but I found out he got into a bar fight the week before--he hasn't changed a bit apparently. My uncles are all newly retired construction workers and hard as nails so whatever it is they are doing it seems to keep them from being 18 year old girls safe to say ;)

bullshit...

millions of people world wide safely use steroids...it is the nectar of the gods...note I said USE and not ABUSE...

deaths by steroids alone? not possible...but the pro body builders take up to 20 types of medication at once....4-5 types of steroids oral and injectable, 2-3 types of anti estrogens, HGH, IGF, T3, Insulin, Clen, EPO, blood pressure meds, diuretics, pain meds, anti inflamation meds, ephedrine, caffeine ect ect + down 5.000+ calories/day during bulking season...

so yes crazy pro bodybuilders and un educated idiots will die from years of ABuse...fuck them...its natural selection...steroids should be legal everywhere and used under doctors supervision...but the US gov. has put it underground and made a spectacular fail just like with any other prohibition...

Steroids do not cause heart attacks, they merely amplify a pre-existing condition. If you have high cholesterol it will make it worse, if u have cancer it will most likely make it spread or grow faster, ect. All the golden era bbers are still alive for the most part....theyre not dead and some even still train. Notice its players of this day and age...ill go back and say it again...HGH AND INSULIN are the problem.

http://blog.bodybuilding.com/BodyBBD...f-c5ab4375f73e

Hes still alive, in great shape, and personal trains people.

Yes it is. The only reason your body stops producing it naturally is because up until modern times your body DIED naturally before you ever reached what we now call old age.

Wrestlers and football players use exorbitant amounts of pain killers. And football banned steroids decades ago.
Concussions and brain injuries are THE most dangerous thing they face.

As for pro wrestlers...having been in that industry I can tell you it's a lot like being in a band (which I also do). A LOT of hard partying and heavy drinking. And tons of mixing that with pain killers.
That's always been the case. Even back in the days of Harley Race & Dusty Rhodes when steroids and the "body builder" look weren't in vogue. Pro wrestlers still dropped like flies from car accidents, heart attacks, greasy food on the road every night, etc.

And using a small amount of testosterone on a weekly basis to get your levels up to normal is going to do nothing but make you healthier. We aren't talking about doing bodybuilder levels.
That's abuse.
You can abuse aspirin and kill yourself. Same with steroids.

I laugh at the roid monkeys at the gym who don't know how to diet properly. They are big but have no definition and have fat faces... soon they will likely grow man tits.

I've noticed the only girls that seem to really be attracted to major meat heads who are obviously on gear are other body builders or major slut bags with issues.

Those are guys on some kind of cycle to gain mass. They are pretty much abusing steroids for size and muscle. If they were actual competitive body builders they would then go on a leaning out cycle to cut down all body fat before their competition.

But as for "normal" people...sounds to me like you're describing guys who are too young to be using testosterone. And they are over using it and retaining water (the bloated look).

As for the girls who like muscular guys. You're right. All women are monolithic in their thinking.
All "Good" women only prefer soft and chubby guys. Only major slut bags would ever want good looking lean muscular guys. That's a fact. :upsidedow

This is a scientific fact? That the only reason the body stops producing testosterone is because live expectancy has changed dramatically? Then why doesn't the body stop producing a lot of other things?

Do I look like Mr. Science to you? :1orglaugh

I don't know. People were different a couple of hundred years ago. For thousands of years you had 15 year old males breeding 12 year old females to reproduce our species because we didn't live very long.
Now you have people having babies in their later years.

Medical science found ways to keep our hearts going a lot longer through better diets. Disease was kicked back by new medicines (hell...before antibiotics you were a dead man if you got hurt or even caught the clap)

My guess would be that nature didn't see any reason to continue having your body spit out testosterone because you were already dead.

If you don't agree with what I'm saying, then just stop taking all medicines. Stop eating healthy. Don't go to the gym.
Or just continue being selective in the things you do that extend your life and keep "other things" working.

I like the way I look and feel. I'd like everyone to be able to be 100% of what they can be. But you can lead a horse to water....

A moon face is a side effect of Steroids. Usually you will see a desproportioned WIDE JAWS, even on women.

However that side effect does not affect all people. Others, finish with a giant body and micro, thin slim JAW, which also looks ridicolous. The kind of FISH FACE of Michael Phelps (not saying that he takes gear, just using his face as sample)... Their head is a micro head comparing with the body like in the movie BettleJuice.

Both types are always funny to watch because they are convinced they look hot, when they actually are true monsters.

Again, anyone can do what they want with their body, but being a LIAR of facts, should be punished. There is a very good reason FDA bans steroids, and 90% of US LAZY dudes buy MEXICAN produced anabolic steroids.

Period.

You you for real? This is probably the dumbest thing I have ever read. Moon face lmao...wow. and widened jaws are usually a side effect from HGH not steroids.

You might want to read up on that.

CONGRESS forced the FDA to make steroids a CONTROLLED substance. They aren't "banned". Doctors prescribe them every minute of every day.

Matter of fact if you actually researched it...Congress did that as a knee jerk reaction to Lyle Alzado claiming that steroid ABUSE cause him to contract a brain tumor that killed him. That was never, ever proven...but Congress reacted because of all the publicity.

The American Medical Association (the AMA) told Congress NOT to do that. (you know, the DOCTORS)
But Congress had televised hearings and all wanted to look "tough" and so they did it anyway.

Those are the facts. Look it up for yourself.

Steroids were 100% legal up until that point. And still are legal almost everywhere in the world EXCEPT the "free" U.S. :)

Robbie you are honestly the only one in this thread who actually has a clue. The ignorance in this thread is amazing

Most prominent side effect of HGH is an over inflated enlarged stomach (coleman), which looks UGLY as fuck.

BTW, I always thought u were natural by looking your avatar. You don't look that big, just a bit of work on gym, nothing special.

Yeah, you will tell me you were not taking gear in that pic, lol.

21" biceps?

im 5'7 185lbs my man and have 17" arms training for 7 years, and those guts are from INSULIN in conjunction with HGH not HGH alone. You really should educate urself instead of believing the first thing you read on the internet. I wasnt taking gear and I dont, competing in an all natural show in august which is polygraph tested.

Actually "Moon Face" is a term used to describe facial water retention / bloat when using steroids and failing to control estrogen.

Larger jaws are linked more to HGH abuse since it is a growth factor. Steroids won't enlarge your bones like that alone, however, when lifting and training heavily, your body will naturally produce more HGH->IGF-1 which will contribute to overall growth but not strangely disproportionate bone growth like HGH abuse.

It seems like you're associating any athletic person that might have an odd look to them to be abusing steroids.

If we're throwing out statistics based on hunches, I'm be willing to bet close to 90% of steroids are actually coming from China, not Mexico.

Your "FACTS" are more of an uneducated and biased opinion. You don't agree with steroids or performance enhancing drugs for whatever reason and you're stating your opinion as facts.

If you did the research and remained objective, you'd see that steroids can be used to improve quality of life both physically and psychologically. That is, steroids that are used properly.

And just so everyone knows, we all produce steroids naturally. From cholesterol. So technically, you all are "on" steroids right now.

Bingo. You're all a bunch of "roid monkeys" and you didn't even know it. lol

I'm not talking about the guys who look normal and big who have used gear. I'm talking about the d-bags that look like they are about to explode. I rarely meet quality women attached to these clowns.

I think juice is a great thing if used properly.

This is actually typical bullshit from someone who obviously is against it but needs to tell himself a story to feel better.

There's been studies to show that supplementing with steroids builds muscle (significant amounts, too) no lifestyle change whatsoever - just sitting on the couch. It also reduced fat as well.

Obviously somebody that's active would benefit even more.

And, since "steroids" can encompass straight testosterone supplementation, all the "OH you lose it faster" and whatever other crybaby stories are also obviously false just on the face of it because how could there possibly be a difference.

Not recommending steroids. I just dont like fruitcakes spouting misinformation.

Go eat a banana and do your circuit training black monster.

You're talking about guys trying to gain muscle mass. I don't know if that makes them douchebags. I know a lot of guys like that. None of the ones I know are douchebags. Pretty nice guys actually.

But yeah, the bloated look kinda sucks aesthetically. On the other hand...all that water retention and extra weight makes them super strong and able to lift a LOT.
Some guys get caught up in that and really like to lift heavy so they kinda get carried away with it.

i was bigger than you when i was 21 and have been training for 20 years and didn't work half as hard as you i'm sure.. so lets not bother using sizes and years of experience as a credential as there are plenty of fools with both that don't know what they are talking about.

was arnold on hgh or steroids? i'm pretty sure its the latter and i'm pretty sure it led to damaging his heart.. one example doesn't really make much of an argument though does it? ;)

My doctor uses roids.... I always thought that was interesting

Arnold was taking steroids back when athletes were taking a lot of them ORALLY.

It's a miracle any of them survived with their livers intact. Today's bodybuilders inject intramuscular almost exclusively.

Also keep in mind that Arnold was MR OLYMPIA
That means he used steroids in quantities that are insanely abusive.

And as I said before...you can take thousands of aspirin every day and injure your body (even die) So yeah...if you take 1000's of times the amount of steroids that are safe (like professional bodybuilders do) you could very well hurt yourself.

Having said that...I plan on drinking many, many times the "safe" level of alcohol this weekend. :)