Again I wasn't insulting. You never did anything to me. But whatever you need... Rock on. :thumbsup

Are you implying that due to any outside issues that Martin had in his personal life that he deserved to be profiled as suspicious, reported to the police, followed, confronted and then shot to death simply for standing up to an armed stranger who MISTAKENLY thought he was on drugs, was up to no good and was a potential burglar?

Oh...okay.

:1orglaugh

:1orglaugh

Actually you are half right in referring what I am saying. If all that stuff you're saying is an actual issue, then yes he probably could have been shot for those mistaken reasons.

Do I think that is right? No, Of course not. He was just a kid. But if you are going to shoot someone and you live in Florida and you are looking for someone to shoot a kid who smells of weed is a good fucking target.

I don't think Florida actually has an advanced culture either though.

I don't want to stress you, but I dont think you read that last bit I wrote correctly.

If a 'backhanded compliment' is an insult disquised as a compliment, then a 'reverse backhanded compliment' would be a compliment disguised as an insult.

I incorrectly wrote 'backhanded compliment' in my first response to what you said, but what I _meant_ was reverse backhanded compliment - a compliment disguised as an insult.

not that it's important, and I'm gonna drop it after this, but it felt like you still thought I was saying you had insulted me, and obviously you hadn't.

saying I am too logical and need to lower my standards is high praise, especially in gfy.

http://www.brassmonkeysaloon.com/images/monkey1.gif

Is that a banana in your hand or are you just happy to see me?

It's all cool. I am so fucking drunk now I can't even begin to decipher this shit LOL :thumbsup

You're okay with me. You never cost me a dime. That's what I care about

And sometimes funny pics like these LOL :thumbsup

What if

Zimmerman was black?

I don't think his last name helps. If it was Lopez or Gutierrez maybe...

It would have probably been more black on black bullshit and not something that would squeeze into the headlines even a little.

My opinion anyway.

Not that they recused themselves because they knew he was guilty, but because they didn't seem to do think it was worth a trial.

He's not white, right? Or am I wrong. I can't stand the way this shit is going. And I don't think the kid should have been shot. Why aren't they making this an issue of gun control over black gets shot by whitey. Oh yeah, It's Florida. Sorry Wasn't thinking

Do you live in LA? it's powerful culture here. They try and clan with the blacks when it is necessary but mostly they hate that ghetto jungle shit too, when they can. Probably why there was no riots out here so far. We usually start them LOL

This case does not require a racial component to be worthy of a trial and it shouldn't be used to determine that either way. If race was the reason the community brought it up to a national level, well who cares? The case still looks to be worth a trial.

I totally agree with you 100 percent, but this won't end things. People still need to deal with this and overcome...

His daddy is white, you are what your daddy is or was

Power rangers on dude

He's not quality white, he's not white trash- he's non white.

If he's found guilty, they'll loot and riot and murder and rape just the same. They are essentially animals, not quite self-aware, and can't change their nature.

They're really actually very self-aware.

Human nature just is what it is.

They're being manipulated, obviously.

Actually you are wrong.. OJ was found guilty in the civil suit for their murders.. He only got off on the criminal trial because of a technicality.

So now you are presuming that Martin smelled of weed and on that basis alone continue to defend the shooting death of someone who simply was walking through a neighbourhood?

The reactions by some here clearly show that there is an underlying element of judgment of Martin after the fact. It's almost as if Zimmerman's actions are being excused because some here believe that the information that came out about Martin later on justified him being shot.

The fact that he was profiled and typecast as a criminal is being ignored because some here feel that it brings up race. This is unavoidable because if the break-ins in that community were not done by blacks, then Zimmerman likely would not have looked twice at Martin.

If Martin was not identified by Zimmerman as black and then automatically cast in the same grouping as the burglars (mistakenly, I might add), Zimmerman would not have said (referring to Martin) that "These assholes. They always get away" nor would he have grouped Martin as a "fucking punk". He probably would have not left his vehicle at all!

Again, given the above, does anyone here get that discussing race in this case is unavoidable? It might make some uncomfortable. It might even piss off a few others who believe that Martin's killing just means that there is one less troublesome negro in the country. The bottom line is that justice has to be served for a profiling, pursuit, conflict with and killing of a teenager that was based completely on a case of civilian profiling and was unjustified.

Your post is so hypocritical that I don't even know where to begin....

You and others like you have ALL based your 'public lynching' of Zimmerman around ASSUMPTIONS and what ifs, and ignoring the actual evidence that we have thus far.

What if Trayvon had killed Zimmerman? Then all of you hypocritical fucks would be screaming from the roof tops that Trayvon is innocent.

What if Zimmerman had been black. There would be fuck all in the media about it.

What if George Zimmerman's name was Pedro Gutierrez. Fuck all would have been in the media about it.

Face it, all of you fucktards are looking at Zimmerman as "dat white boy" and Trayvon as some purportedly innocent black kid who was viciously gunned down as a result of a racially motivated hate crime.

Get off it already, or at the very least, stop being a major hypocrite when producing your counter arguments.

And again, I have no opinion on the case itself. The only thing I am commenting on is all of you fucking hypocrites that can do nothing but focus on the damn race of each person involved. I'm pretty sure all of you clowns are 1000 times more racist than the media circus made Zimmerman out to be.

Sorry, my legal background doesn't allow for lynching. I leave that to those who openly have shown prejudicial tendencies right here on this very forum. You clearly have made the mistake of lumping me in with others who may simply want Zimmerman to be arrested based on his racial background. This is not the case. Justice needs to be served for the killing of a teenager who simply was walking down the street, minding his own business.

Regarding your comments surrounding ASSUMPTIONS, I've analyzed this case on evidence presented thus far:The full 911 tapes. Full interviews with Zimmerman's lawyer, friends and the information coming thus far from the police. I've not followed the news stories because I know that they pick an angle and stick with it.

If you follow what I have stated regarding this topic in the various threads on GFY and looked at how the case is progressing, I have been right on point. Look back at my post history and you will see that this is true.

I can almost guarantee that many of the arguments that I have made here will be presented by the prosecutor in the court.

As for your talk of hypocrisy, you have launched your little tirade based on "WHAT-IF's". Let's deal with FACTS. The reality is that Zimmerman racially and criminally profiled Martin, was recorded doing so and then set in motion a chain of events that led to the uncessary killing of a teenager, thereby exemplifying dangerous conduct. This is what will be presented in the court and likely will cause Zimmerman to be found guilty.

To add to what I said in my previous post, you exemplify why so many appear to simply want Zimmerman to go free.

There is an automatic assumption by some of you that anyone who wants Zimmerman to face the consequences of his deeds (AND points out the clear evidence that Zimmerman's actions against Martin were motivated by the burglaries by blacks) is racist.

Logically adults should be able to be comfortable enough with themselves to face the truth of the matter: Zimmerman repeatedly typecast Martin as a criminal without due process or reasonable cause and acted on his presumption without the legal authority to do so. It may have been mistake, but he will have to face the consequences of the dangerous conduct he exemplified which resulted in his taking of a life.

All you have are assumptions and opinions while constantly ignoring the actual facts.

Hate to break it to you all but there is no way they are going to prove without a shadow of a doubt that it was murder.

Once again, you are speculating. There is absolutely no proof that Zimmerman did any such thing. All of YOU are making this about race, because trayvon was black and was killed by whitey.
If you were truly focusing on the facts, and not speculation, assumptions and opinions then you would realize that the ONLY time zimmeran brought up race was when the police asked him. And even then he wasn't sure... hence the "I *think* he's black" part.

Stop lying to yourself already.

And again, I don't care if zimmerman goes free or goes to jail. I do expect him to get a fair trial like everyone else though... which won't happen thanks to the media and all of you racists making it out to be a racially motivated hate crime.

The 911 tapes and the interviews are actual facts that are on record. I was not surprised that an impartial prosecutor felt that there was sufficient factual evidence to charge Zimmerman.

If we were speaking of first degree murder I would agree with you, but for second degree murder they only need to prove that Zimmerman exemplified dangerous conduct that led to the loss of a life.

Actually, if this were true he would have been charged at least a month ago. The evidence hasn't changed. All this is is grandstanding to appease the black community, and probably a political move; It is election season after all (not sure when the DA elections are but obama sure as shit is using this "case" to win the black vote). And what happens if the prosecutor wins? man, this is a nice resume building case to pin under his belt.

I actually meant to say under a fair trial but nonetheless, if he's convicted at this point, anyone with any amount of common sense would have to question just how biased the prosecutor and jury are.

At any rate, I'm not even sure this will make it to trial. I mean, it's not like everyone who's making this out to be some racism fueled hate crime doesn't want him dead. And hell, even if he's found not guilty, I bet he doesn't survive a week.

False. Such is expected of those who do not think along legal lines. This is not about me, but how the case has to proceed in a court of law.

Again, The racial element is key because of:
1. The burglaries in the neighborhood that were done by blacks
2. Zimmerman's statement that there were break-ins in the neighborhood.
3. His early identification of Martin as black within the first minute of the 4 minute call
4. The second time he identified Martin as black it was unprompted by the dispatcher 1:04-:1:09 of the call
5. Zimmerman's claim that "These Assholes. They always get away". Clearly a reference to the burglaries and an expression that he viewed Martin as a potential burglar
6. Zimmerman's further claim of "fucking punks" Thereby further typecasting an innocent teenager as a potential burglar
7. His refusal to wait for the police even when the dispatcher stated that they were only a few minutes away and leaving his vehicle

These things add up and will serve as evidence in the case. Now if you personally have an issue with the fact that race will play a role in this case, then that is your personal issue, not mine.

Yes, I'm sure they will twist it every which way they can to make it sound as racially motivated as they possibly can.

"These assholes" != These black people
"fucking punks" != fucking black people

But yes, I know they will do their best to twist and turn it into zimmerman saying that he thinks all blacks are criminals.

I mean fuck, I guess no one should ever report suspicious behavior anymore because hot damn... to do so would be fucking racist.

I'll stand by my opinion that this entire ordeal is nothing but nonsense. They really might as well take him out back and put him in front of a firing squad...

So let me ask you, when zimmerman ends up dead, are you going to so adamantly demand his killers be brought to justice? I highly doubt it.. more like you'll cheer that he got what he deserved...

The initial prosecutor did want to proceed, but the moved was blocked for whatever reason.

An impartial prosecutor had to come in and analyze the facts of the case. If there wasn't enough evidence to continue, the refusal to charge Zimmerman would have be vindicated.

Cases become public knowledge well in advance in many instances. This does not stop these cases from going to court.

This is not a racism-fueled hate crime. That is not my opinion of the matter. My view is that Zimmerman's collective actions in the scenario indeed exemplified dangerous conduct that resulted in Martin's killing. Evidence shown thus far prove this.

So, he followed procedure exactly as stated. He called the police and observed from a safe location. When the 911 operator told him he didn't have to, George says OK and returns to his vehicle.

No one is saying that Zimmerman thinks that all blacks are criminals. That is a ridiculous assertion. Again, I do not believe that Zimmerman is a racist or has anything against blacks. He simply make the tragic error of lumping an innocent teenager in with burglars who happened to have targeted the error.

What is proven by the steps I put forth is that it shows a clear instance of criminal profiling by Zimmerman against Martin. This civilian level profiling led to actions that resulted in the death of a teenager who was walking home from the store.


Reporting suspicious behavior is fine.

Getting out of your vehicle while armed to pursue someone based on a flawed opinion, getting into a conflict with that person because of said flawed opinion and then ending up killing that person because of that flawed opinion is dangerous conduct. IS really is that simple.

That's because you appear to simply be on the other end of the one-dimensional spectrum that this entire this is about race. Yet again, it is about the killing of a teenager who was walking down the street that was due to a flawed analysis of the type of person he was (based on race).

Zimmerman does not deserve to die for his error. He deserves to be brought to justice and jailed for his conduct.

Anyone who harms him should face the full brunt of the law. I definitely would not cheer for or support Zimmerman's murderers if he was to be killed. That would mean that the judicial system failed both Martin and Zimmerman

I doubt it... they would have just kept looking until they found someone who would prosecute.

I was speaking more along the lines of him ending up dead first...

Everyone sure as shit is making it out to be.

To begin with, look at how badly and adamantly the media flat out lied. Where's the justice for knowingly and purposefully fabricating evidence in order to sway the public's opinions? Do you honestly believe any jury in Florida is going to be unbiased? Are you seriously that jaded? Oh, one guy got fired, big deal. Chances are he'll have another job within a month or 2.

And just today.. look at the headlines... "Zimmerman 'profiled' Trayvon Martin, prosecutor's filings claim". If you don't think that's not them trying to make this a racially motivated hate crime then I don't know what to tell you.

The "unbiased" prosecutor is doing nothing but playing the race angle because that is the only thing he has. The rest of the evidence doesn't prove anything, so all he can try to do is present said evidence in such a way to make it more than it was. They are going to try and sway the jury's view (as if it can be any more swayed than it already is) of zimmerman as some black hating racist, and then they'll serve up the actual facts of the case.

Even if that was to turn out to be the case, Zimmerman still has a significant level of culpability in the eventual killing of Martin by leaving his vehicle while armed.

Furthermore, the police department's neighborhood watch representative stated that she specifically told persons from that neighborhood watch community to allow the police to handle any situation they found suspicious. Zimmerman went against those instructions and his words against Martin clearly exemplify his intent to pursue and confront Martin. Being armed elevates his culpability in that scenario.

+1

Although I don't agree that being armed is a factor in his level of culpability, his actions do create that situation :2 cents:



.

Let me stop you right there... where are the FACTS that prove trayvon was innocent? Again, this is speculation. How do you actually know that trayvon wasn't one of the burglars? Where's your proof that he wasn't casing some houses or apartments or w/e?

You have no proof. You are trying to form a fact from speculation.

So reporting suspicious behavior is racial profiling? Hell, I guess no one should ever do sucha thing again.

And LOL about the "civilian level profiling"... the actual police are much worse than that. And hell, even if the police showed up in time, trayvon still probably wouldn't been shot.. except then it would have been 10+ times instead of once.


Apparently it's not considering everyone, including yourself, is basing the entire case around racism.

Yes, following a suspicious person while on the phone with the police in the hopes of the police being able to find him and question him is completely wrong.

2 separate witness accounts state that zimmerman was the one screaming for help. And there are reports that trayvin had no injuries - although, why an official autopsy wasn't conducted is beyond me. If one was conducted then where's the evidence that trayvon had been hit as well? - indicates that he was the aggressor. It doesn't prove that he was but it creates enough doubt.

EVERYONE has ALREADY made this about race. Even your so called unbiased prosecutor. Their very first angle is making zimmerman out to be racist.

So you say, but I doubt you'll be so adamantly out for "justice" for zimmerman like you are now.

Irrelevant. The media is not on trial here. Zimmerman is.

You clearly don't understand legal process. Zimmerman was not charged with a hate crime. The "profiling" in question falls in line with the words that Zimmerman stated.

Taking away race actually hurts Zimmerman's defense. Following that line of thought he criminally profiled a teenager who simply was walking down the street as a burglar with no due process, no evidence and no called-in reports by the neighborhood community that a break-in recently took place.

At least by saying that Martin was black Zimmerman can say that he had a reason to pursue Martin due to the recent rash of burglaries by blacks.

Your inability to analyze situation without getting upset at anyone who brings up race is the problem at hand. Read what I stated above in this post again. Maybe you'll get it this time.

I was in a neighborhood watch, the cops come and talk to your group and if they say it once they say 100x do nothing and call the police. No following ,no confronting call the police. Also a cop did want to arrest him on the scene.
http://articles.nydailynews.com/2012...atal-shooting-
"The lead homicide detective probing the fatal shooting of Trayvon Martin wanted the Florida neighborhood watch volunteer slapped with manslaughter charges from the get-go.

Investigator Chris Serino, of the Sanford Police Department, expressed doubt in George Zimmerman?s account of how the shooting went down"

Having a permit to carry does impose a higher level of responsibility on all of us who do so. That is the inherent nature of the license. Namely, that a person who bears that license has been approved as competent and responsible enough by the state to bear arms on their person at any time.

lol, look at you... "if that turns out to be the case". Sounds to me that that's exactly what he was doing.

But wait, next you guys are going to try and say that Zimmerman purposefully set it up to sound like he was leaving and would meet up with the police so that he could go after trayvon and kill him... Next presentation in court will be that zimmerman masterminded the whole thing so he could go kill the black guy...

I don't agree that being armed should elevate his culpability. He never "pursued and confronted" Martin. The timeline for him leaving is vehicle is around 10 seconds at best, and was instigated by the 911 operator asking him to describe the suspect, his location, and where he was heading. Then, he "loses sight" of Martin and returns to his vehicle.

Some people keep saying that he "pursued and confronted". There is nothing on the 911 tape, no witnesses, nothing that would suggest this. To me, this is a key point in the incident. For someone to "observe from a safe distance" is not the same.

Yes, I know, I know... the only thing going on right now is the zimmerman case. Forget that the media did so much lying and fabricating details to make him out to be a racism fueled murderer. If you don't think the media's role played a HUGE part in this case, then you my friend are delirious.

Yes, when he was asked by the dispatch officer, he responded "he looks black", then he later confirmed that with "he's a black male"; obviously after he got a clear look at him.

Actually, it would not. There is no way in hell he could have known that trayvon was a kid. Late teens could easily be 18 or 19... and hell, 17 isn't a "kid" by any means.

Again, speculation in order to twist the entire event into what you want it to be.

Actually, the only thing I'm upset about is the FACT that this entire event has been blown so out of proportion that it's sickening. From the media to the "unbiased" prosecutor... they are all making this out to be a racially motivated hate crime. Sure, they might not be charging him with a hate crime because to do so would be laughable; but that's how they're presenting the case thus far.