I am prone to colorful metaphors and analogies to make points. You can deal with it because that is not something I am going to change just because you feel like you should be able to point accusing fingers at everyone without being taken to task for it.

I think Porno Jew called it. You just really want to hear from people that confirm your suspicions. You don't want to believe Homegrown and you don't want to believe Peabody just because we figured out how to make it work for us. Somehow that brands our opinions and advice as ineligible and bullshit and makes us Kiss Asses. Backroom Casting Couch confirmed what Porntubeguy said but I guess they are also not to be trusted just because they agreed with him. Pay no mind to the fact that Porntubeguy actually went and essentially copied that type of content for his own site based on seeing its success in his time at youporn.

But I guess by keeping the blinders on you just missed that altogether... I wouldn't mind but you keep trying to present yourself as being objective when clearly you are not. No offense either - just giving my perspective, so sorry if it comes off critical, which can't be helped.

Where did Backroom Casting Couch post? Considering how long the topic is it's possible I did miss a reply or two.

ThePornTubeGuy runs one of the tubes and is promoting his own programs to get people to upload content. Of course I'm not going to trust him in the same way I would trust an independent pay site owner. Let's be real.

Like I said I'm mainly looking for objective experiences from people who haven't been defending tubes in the last year or don't own the said tubes themselves. I don't see where that is unreasonable. The idea is that you would think a few pay site owners saw Ruseful's stats and decided to give it a shot and would have made quite a few sales from it. Where are these people? If these tubes are so helpful to the pay sites then this topic should soon be filled with pay site owners praising them. I'm waiting to see it. One way or another let's see what the truth of the matter is.

And again, please don't be so defensive. I wasn't "pointing fingers at everyone". Take it easy. It's just that I know already how you feel because you've been posting in Manwin threads defending them for the last year. Your opinion is nothing new to me. I'd like to hear from others.

people have posted. you refuse to see it.

Well my first video clip is now live on Porntube.

So the testing begins :)

http://www.porntube.com/videos/claud...eampie_1116788

My experience so far is I can't even open a fucking account lol, timeouts, no confirmation emails, no replies to emails sent about problems. If I ever get to the stage of subbing any vids I'll be chiming back in.

Your watermark on that video is very difficult to see. Personally I wouldn't bother with the fancy watermark you use in your members area and just go with something plain and very easy to read at first glance. The volume of traffic from typeins will probably be larger than the banner. :2 cents:

Keep waiting because getting good ratios is not going to happen overnight and, frankly, most people won't figure it out because it actually does require an investment of time and energy and most people want a quick fix and a thousand sign ups in a week for no effort at all. Keep waiting because most of those that are successful at it don't want to help you. In fact, they can't wait to see your body floating by in the river of web failure like so many other webmasters. (Sun Tzu once said "victory is seeing the bodies of your enemies floating past in the river").

Peabody gave it a shot because he saw companies like Homegrown and others doing it. I have never seen him kiss Manwin's ass over it either. He seems to have approached it very much like us - cautiously and professionally and forming his own opinion based on his own unique experience. Still, in spite of acknowledging him as a straightshooter you can't take what he says according to your so-called standards of objectivity.

What makes people like Robbie have so much value to what he is saying then? No disrespect to him but he pretty much admitted he only took a very small crack at it, didn't like it, but now is saying not only that he would have to try again, but also started his own tubes, and even turned Claudia's site tour into a tube. So he is in fact a "tube site owner" and I suppose when he starts doing well with it then he will be a kiss ass too?

The sad thing is I am truly trying to help you but you can't hear my advice or anyone else's that has tried offering meaningful and practical business wisdom just because you have this false notion that I am along with others trying to defend Manwin.

Manwin scares me. They should scare everyone. They don't need me to defend them and they don't care if I do or don't. They are running a business. I am running a business. If we can make money together then all is good but that doesn't make us anything beyond what our partner agreement or affiliate terms describe. So quit painting me as some sort of Manwin booster-boy. More often than not they have to put up with us being a squeaky wheel about stuff so they probably consider us like a fly on a horse's ass that has to be flicked away constantly with a whip of the tail.

Because I'm cool like that. :)

We should be working together btw. If you want to trade some promo we will put Claudia Marie in our "Neighbors" section... juicy member's area traffic from HGV and I think our surfers will love her as we have a great base of big boob milf slut fans in our site.

You probably have a few options for how you could promote us and we are open to hearing what you think works. Hit up spike at homegrownvideo d com or skype him at hgspike.

I have a section in the members area as well that I do upsells with. Yours is called "Neighbors" , mine is called "Other Whores" lol :1orglaugh

So yeah, we can do that.

I <3 Far-L.

Actually Far-L I owe you an apology because I looked back and I can see where you thought that reply was about you now after reading back. I think I wrote the same three things in another reply but instead scratched that and just stuck it in with the reply to you. I had thought it was an independent reply not to you and couldn't understand how you seemed to think it was directed at you but now I see it looks like it did quote you. I definitely did not mean to imply that you were a Manwin employee. I know you're not. I see now you aren't a "Manwin booster boy" either.

I do think there are many pay site owners who have been reading and have decided to give it a shot to see. So I think we are going to hear the truth either way soon. I see Robbie and Jel are already starting tests. I read another thread where someone else stated they are getting into tube submissions. It should be interesting to see what people see. Like I said many pages back if it really helps paysite owners over the short and long term then that's great. I am skeptical. I think a lot will depend on how much content they are giving out. We will see.

I agree that the url on the watermark is hard to see.

Apology most graciously accepted. And just for the record, your healthy skepticism is a positive attribute and not anything I can fault. I think Peabody possesses that same quality and that has helped him in his own efforts undoubtably.

This thread has been at its best with a healthy and robust measure of scientific skepticism and where each hypothesis has been tested to garnish empirical factual data that can be presented and peer reviewed.

Where it gets in trouble is with those that still want to believe the Earth is actually flat and won't accept any evidence to the contrary.

I am in agreement and will make an easily read bigger text watermark for the clips to follow.

That's exactly what my cock told me... :1orglaugh

It's a knock off of Met-Art and nothing special. :1orglaugh

To be accused of being a knock off of Met Art, makes it special as few site get anywhere near that level.


My point?
Pity so few do then.

Can many producers here do just as good material? <-------This is my point and the answer is YES

Because they are. This level of content would of sold better with TGP sites.

Well the only way to find that out is to get a "knock off" of Met-Art and test it. I admit we are just taking his word for it and I've been skeptical of that in this thread. IMO there are far better ways to get this level of content onto his tubes than asking people with "filler porn" sites, to fill his Tubes. He wins on this as it will give him at the minimum more traffic to sell. I have stated 90% will not duplicate his results.
Agree. Even giving out galleries with free porn killed some sales. A line of text and a soft core tour, would of been the best way not to lose sales. We all knew a better way. The problem was, we all knew the better way and we all did it. :Oh crap

The porn is special when compared with the rest of online porn. To accuse the porn of ripping off Met-Art and saying it's not special, is a contradiction. To rip off Met-Art is has to be special. Which is why there are so few doing that. To rip off a Tube site, isn't special, which is why so many do it.

I agree with you on the rest.

Yes, we kept the content ownership rather than shooting for others. so nearly 4 years after we stopped producing the money still rolls in.

hard to see? thats putting it mildly.
Replace the video asap with a straight forward watermark. check a few other videos and see what others are doing.
the banners are tiny, surrounded by massive ads and premium upsells. the type-ins seem very important to me.

We have tried a couple of tubes and on one we got some good sales 3000 clicks and 6 sales, but we have two problems, we don't go for quantity but try and make quality short films which are edited. That means we are selling fifty 20-30 minutes films.

trailer

Our trailers are edited and are about 90 seconds long. the click through rates seem to be Ok but our material is just swamped in the tidal wave of material.

If we made 15 minute trailers that would be 70% of the movies

how can one bitch about tubes if the tube marketing is done correctly?

https://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=1065257

See the dumb ass replies. Pornhub as a Platinum sponsor and the rest are mostly billing companies.

I can testify Robbie's stuff is good big tit MILF. so his stats will be very interesting. Still the watermark isn't good, but it's got Claudia's name around it.

I will get around to submitting some stuff as soon as I get the new tour done and get some clips made.

If Jel submits we will have his stats also.

I'm confused. Paul says giving away porn killed the industry and now he is giving away porn?

Weird.

The point of the tube sites is the media vehicle for the consumers to watch porn. Do you want to download as a surfer when you can just click and stream and it actually works? think of yourself as a surfer. I don't like tube sites either and I hate the way everyone pretends to hate them and then lets them use their content.

with tubes paul has just found a new way to justify his wall of text tirades against affiliates.

he is still blaming them for his site's failure, not the simple truth that consumers did not want to join his site (speaking as a former affiliates of his).

How many people do you think say "I was going to pay for Paul's porn but since these tubes are here, I don't have to"?.. :Oh crap

I have to admit. If i cared about buying porn and didn't know that if I started promoting they would give it to me for free. I would much rather click a movie and see what I want to see than have to jump through hoops to get what I want.

All the tubes have to do is shorten clips, but I'm sure they know that but had to have a reason to exist

Said this before and will say it again...

High ctr is usually the main goal but high ctr is not necessarily the be-all end-all of tube marketing. Highly branded but low ctr with high conversions can earn more than high ctr with unbranded ads that get crap conversions and this seems counter-intuitive to many folks used to just focusing on high ctr as a measure of a campaign's success.

Of course, getting to a point where high ctr is generating great click to sales/joins is the holy grail of tube marketing.

Niche makes a difference. Brand helps. Content quality is important, but I see plenty of programs doing well even though the content does nothing for my cock-O-meter and I am sure it fails to register much on Robbie's as well.

I know.

Pretty much a sign of the Apocalypse.

Wouldn't leave home today without a raincoat and a good towel.

Didn't read this whole thread, however, have you tried xhamster? Fill out a profile as well.

I'm afraid I've been trying Xhamster since they first opened. That is if you call having your content stolen and uploaded to Xhamster and having to dmca it down every other day "trying". lol

Sometimes if you can't beat them, you have to beat them another way. Have them signup as an affiliate and they put a banner and text link on your vid. If over 5 minutes I believe they just give you a free (no affiliate) link.

Try it out... it converts. Then when others steal your content just ask them to put your link up on that page instead of taking it down.

So, finally all people that were always against the TUBES now join the TUBES and post their content there?

If you can't fight them, join them?

SPONSOR/CONTENT-PRODUCER <-> TUBES <-> SPONSOR/CONTENT-PRODUCER

I wonder where does the affiliate come into game?

We are completely excluded from the game in this new business model. And man, 90% in this forum are affiliates, are you not worried about it?

Really wondering.

That's the truth but I have been predicting this since day one.

Are your sales rising still as you just leave all that content up there and have them add a link? It seems to completely defy logic on the surface. Promo content, maybe. But full scenes?

It's a business you have to remember. That's why I think many affiliates will react by pirating content and opening their own tubes as it gets worse. The thing which I am extremely skeptical on is that the piracy is going to help pay site owners in the long run. I'm listening to experiences and taking note but it seems to defy logic and everything I know about business.

I suggested to Robbie to ask them, xhamster, to put up the link so he gets the clicks.

A few full scenes out of 500 scenes in members area is not such a big deal. It's only a suggestion, and ultimately the choice of the program owner.

I have actually never asked them to add the link to a stolen vid... only DMCA'd. It was just a thought I had and Robbie's content is stolen more then the program I am helping run.

His choice, how much for free, pro's con's etc... but my main point is the link to the site on the page of the video is very important.

I wouldn't think so. Especially for guys like me who shoot very exclusive stuff. We don't have a million generic porn scenes at our disposal and simply can't churn out hundreds of scenes all the time.

I'm just gonna keep dmca'ing those down.

I'm giving porntube a shot because they have a nice set up and I'm in control. I simply do not like it when a site like xhamster allows people to upload my full scenes and they know damn well that those are mine. And yet they just put them up there and make money off of other people's content.

That's just stealing. And it will come back and bite them in the ass. Kim Dot Com thought he was above it all too...

What I did was sign up for the tubes partner accounts system. Created accounts at programs I wanted to promote. One for me, one for the tube site owners. I'd let them have the banner traffic. I was more interested in the type in traffic. I got a bunch of traffic. I was really surprised that many surfers were typing my domain in. Personally I couldn't for the life of me get that traffic to convert. I got few sales, but not enough to warrant the time and effort it takes to continue.. Hats of to anybody that can make a go of it. Just wasn't for me.

That makes sense. 2% of your member area may not be a big deal. 60% might be a big problem. There's probably a point of optimization somewhere. Of course it's all out the window if people have stolen 100% of your member area and it's all over the place. Unless something extraordinary is happening.

I won't repeat what I've been saying but I wonder if some of these people submitting so much content might be sort of digging their own graves deeper and deeper without realizing it.

I would think that too. You can't give out 100% of your member area and still expect people to pay. I admit I don't know everything but this seems logical and in line with basic business principles. At the same time as you give out more you would expect the ctr and conversions to get worse past a certain point (much like setting price points). So to keep it sustainable you would have to continually chew through content which you would need to keep submitting. But then again does the surfer really care if you have 10,000 other videos if they already have what they need for free? I wonder because most surfers don't have any idea of what really is in the members area before joining. You would think once they have enough accessible to them for free they would stop joining at some point.

Don't forget that you can always delete your own vids, and DMCA the others once you see saturation.

They may do really well for you. My experience shows xhamster converts... I don't know about porntube. I think I read on the first page of this thread "Have you tried xhamster"

I'm certainly not a spokesman for them, I just know that they convert. I'm out of this thread... good luck

http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/661/picture2ugw.png

It's sad to see some blow something so simple:disgust

Then you must have blinked long and hard to miss it when Bang Bros and many others blew up with amazing success doing exactly that, as have other programs, pre tube era as well as post tube era.

The numbers don't lie. The numbers are logical even if one cannot make sense of why it works and defies the assumption of a result.

:2 cents:
Online porn more or less killed off DVD and magazine companies, greatly reduced adult cable and phone sex. As for content producers, it reduced them to working for peanuts. So why are affiliates different. When the bell tolls.

As a businessman if I find a great source of sales, models, money. I don't share it. I certainly don't campaign for others to come and get some of what I'm getting. Because it can only produce a downside. Eventually there will be more "Amateur" niche sites feeding from the source of traffic you're sourcing now. Are they will try it "get it wrong" and lose money.

Successful = you lose customers.
Failure = your campaigning cost them money.

Or do you think more Amateur niche sites submitting to the Tubes will bring Homegrown more customers? :upsidedow

Employees of a Tube site need more submitters. More videos = more surfers to sell as clicks.

Fuck me 31 page contract who read that shit for porntube and any cliff notes?

Fuck that idea then. I never sign anything like that. If you need 31 pages, you're hiding something.

Yes, more people that claim to have "amateur" standing in stark contrast to what we offer does bring us biz, the same way it is not unusual to see McDonalds and Burger King right across the street from one another. Take the content you produced and call "amateur" for example. I would be happy for people to see your version of amateur and compare it to Homegrown Video's and let the fans/buyers/surfers decide.

Warren Buffet, Bill Gates and scores of other billionaires share their advice readily and even invest heavily in their competitors as well. Do they worry that it will hurt them? No, they realize how it helps them.

You claim your market was killed by cheaply produced inferior product. I claim my success is based on cheaply produced superior product and excellent service and a strong community.

I have to ask because you are making so many big assessments about everything and I find myself disagreeing with so much of it... How is your paysite doing these days? How many DVDs did your company manufacture and distribute last year? How many licenses did you do with cable and satellite? It would be a big help to separate the first hand knowledge from the hearsay and hyperbole. :Oh crap

Having two shops selling a similar product opposite each other is good. Having 20 paysite owners giving the product away next to each other isn't the same. However as you point out few will have content as great as yours and fail. So you're just talking up them submitting to get more traffic you'll get more sign ups from and they will fail. Thanks for the info.

Your brother took my wife and I out for lunch in an attempt to buy the license on the Astral Blue content. They couldn't meet my price. Never shot amateur video here in CZ.

Trust me Homegrown is no Microsoft. Do they share patents and customer lists as well?

No I claim my market was destroyed by people spending a lot of money giving porn away for free. and couldn't afford good content. You do buy in cheap though.

I've been retired for 3.5 years. Still making money though. And as a set shooter. I will ask you how many solo girl scenes did you ever buy for $3,000 out right? I went where the money was best.

you put your foot in it with the first part.

Either the submitters are going to do well and encroach on your territory or they will fail. You'll pick up some extra traffic and maybe sign ups.

Ratios between people on a tube site and people buying a membership suck. We all know that and there's no dispute on it. So every new submitter has to bring for instance 10,000 surfers to get an extra sign up. Or he takes a sign up from another site.

So using that figure and it could be more or less. 100 sign ups a month will require 1,000,000 new surfers. 100 sign ups = $3,000 a month. It's great if you can tap into this source of traffic, once in you don't need lots of other people coming in and grabbing some of the traffic.

Of course filling the Tube with crap porn will bring more traffic, without a loss of sales for those with the very best content. Which I see Far-L has pointed out.

I can't decide whether to just bow to your omnipresent genius so you will fade away content with your own absolute amazingness to enjoy the rest of your perfect day being the guru of great marketing and overwhelming sales experience... or school you hard for your abject failure to represent even one small grain of truth.

Let's see...

hmmmmmmmmmmmmm....

Yeah, I think I have to go get my toast out of the toaster so I can butter my bread after I scrape off the slightly burned edges with a dull knife. Then I am going to wipe up the crumbs and throw them in the compost bin. Kind of a metaphor for your career trajectory when I think about it, isn't it?

What were you talking about again?