Originally Posted by TheSquealer (Post 18828118)

And for the record, when it comes to using hormones/steroids like Testosterone and HGH etc.. its easy to talk trash and be critical and cling safely to a taboo word like "steroid" or "chemicals" as you seem to prefer, without having any real idea of whats being discussed or what steroids even are - nevermind the wide range of drugs that word encompasses which range from totally benign in almost any quantity to lethal when abused.

At the end of the day, you are dying. Good diet and exercise will help your health but for the most part, it isn't going to do a great deal to offset the decline in testosterone production and HGH secretion - to the point where its going to have a radical benefit to your health. Your body is breaking down and falling apart. Its designed to. This begins in your mid 20's as a male and heads on a trajectory that climbs steeper and steeper with age. Testosterone and HGH in the context of hormone replacement therapy in males is about preventative measures to slow your body's physical decline. If your test levels are down to very low end of the range, you can't move it back up to the high end with exercise alone. You can only move it up slightly. If going from 300ng/dl to 400 is good enough for you while you try to do everything perfect... that's fine. As for myself, i'm happy at 1000-ish.

Its easy to talk it all down.. but in 20 years when YOU are the one with a bad hip, bad knees, arthritis, failing mind etc.. it will be too late for you for the most part. And that's what some of us work very hard to prevent... with diet, exercise AND hormone replacement therapy.

Tical is the last person in this forum that I would be challenging on the subject.

Originally Posted by bossku69 (Post 18825242)

I've been in a slump past few months, if not years really. Went to the doctor to see if its thyroid related and everything comes back "normal"

<tangent> what is "normal" is the same for me, a big frame 280lb 6'3" man compared to that of a 5'2" 110lb Asian man... its not right </tangent>

Went to my doctor last week, told him I have every sign of this problem and its increasing, except for ED. Got some blood work taken and called this morning to say "everything's normal..." BULLSHIT!

I took testosterone as a study back in 2004 while living in LA. During this 8 week treatment, I felt like a million bucks, then after it ended, over time, kept going down and down until now.

Rather, my doctor wants to put me on an anti-depressant and no matter how much I tell him Im not fucking depressed, he says he can't prescribe any meds for low T. Since there is such a high range to be "normal" I'm thinking I go get it done again but this time make sure I get a lack of sleep and lay around all the day before. I think because I got it taken the morning after I was active that night the numbers were higher.

Anyone have this or same issues?

Originally Posted by tical (Post 18825860)

I'm on TRT and starting it was one of the best moves I ever made. My GP also wanted to just give me anti depressants and viagra and send me on my way but I knew something else was going on.

Post up your lab work results and I'll tell you if I think you should see another doctor... general practitioners typically won't be much help. If you have any questions hit me up... I've been on TRT for 3 years now and understand it well.

Originally Posted by tical (Post 18826038)

Hey Phil,

I didn't want to bother going the androgel route either. I'd rather do 1 poke a week than have to rub gels on myself daily. Plus 10 weeks at this dose only costs me about 70 bucks w/o insurance... androgel is much more expensive!

I'm prescribed 100mg of cyp per week and that puts me at the top of the range. I also take 250iu of HCG weekly to keep the balls plump along with 12.5mg of aromasin twice a week (on injection day and 3 days later) just to keep estrogen in check.

Occasionally I'll cruise at a little bit of a higher dose for a couple of months... around 300mg... because... well... I want to hah!

If you were going to go with 200mg it would probably be a good idea to spread it out into 2 shots of 100mg each just so that you don't have any crazy spikes in estrogen. Even though cyp is a long ester, there is still a large spike after the injection.

Originally Posted by bns666 (Post 18826060)

get this, works great

http://www.t-nation.com/img/store/alphaMale.jpg

Originally Posted by Sly (Post 18825477)

Probably should have refused the shot but I was so out of it I didn't care what happened to me

Originally Posted by MaDalton (Post 18863781)

drop 80 lbs :2 cents:

Originally Posted by bossku69 (Post 18863785)

well thats the goal :winkwink:

however no motivation, I don't want to do much more than sit around

Originally Posted by bossku69 (Post 18863785)

well thats the goal :winkwink:

however no motivation, I don't want to do much more than sit around

Originally Posted by tical (Post 18826055)

This isn't always the case. Diet and exercise won't reverse premature andropause, cure bad genetics, or repair an impaired metabolism (which is critical for higher levels of circulating hormones as well as the utilization of them).

Diet and exercise can definitely lend them self to a better sense of well being and all over improvement but it can't turn an aging man into a 20 year old again... genetic aging won't allow it. This is where HRT comes into play... anti-aging medicine.

Also to note, being overweight will increase the level of estrogen in your body. Elevated levels of estrogen influence the negative feedback loop that lowers testosterone.

It works like this:

Your body has an equilibrium of testosterone (androgens) and estrogens that is determined by your metabolism, genetics, age, etc. This is all controlled by your hypothalamus.

1. A small percentage of testosterone you produce is converted to estrogen by an enzyme.

2. Your hypothalamus recognizes this estrogen and uses it as one measurement to control the release of gonadatropins that will signal your balls to produce testosterone.

To your body, too much estrogen means there must be too much testosterone... so it must be lowered to reach that equilibrium once again. Your brain reduces demand for the production of testosterone.

If estrogen is produced by adipocytes (fat cells) and not the aromatizatoin of testosterone,your body will strive to correct this estrogen imbalance by lowering testosterone.

Lose weight and your T should increase slightly... but don't expect a miracle.

Originally Posted by MaDalton (Post 18863805)

i dropped like 35 lbs by sitting around, just eating differently

but being fat causes your problem, any medication will just make it worse

Originally Posted by bossku69 (Post 18864015)

Ive always had problems with loosing weight, but in the past 2-3 years it is been increasing more difficult. I work out 2-3 times a week, walk, do some cardio, etc., and no real weight loss. If i dont, I will easily put on 5+ lbs a week.

I know something is wrong, this can't be normal but the doctors Ive gone to just look and the results and say "its normal" but I highly doubt someone eating healthy and the proper calorie intake each day plus moderate exercise would GAIN weight :mad:

Originally Posted by webmax (Post 18830285)

I am 30. I have been on 12iu HGH/eod since Jan. Also been on deca 600mg/week; test enanthate 1g/week and cycles of trenbolone, anadrol and dianabol.

Make sure to have your anti estrogens. Also best to go black market, it will save you a lot of money.