If the affiliate program's C.P.A./Attorney say you must fill out whatever they say you must fill out, that is what you would be required to do,... or you move along. I would take the guidance of my accountant and attorney over some affiliate trying to 'school me' on international law, or their perception of such.

In the end, it is my counsel signing my tax return, or defending me in regards to the IRS. If they were to tell me you as an international affiliate were to provide a copy of your legal I.D. docs, and sign some W-9, you would sign it or I would never approve you as an affiliate. If you were an affiliate and refused, I pay you whatever was remaining, and close your account.

At the end of the day, I am not going to risk my business over one guy's interpretation of both U.S. and international law. That is why you pay counsel who specialize in such matters to handle it.

:2 cents:

It sounds like you want to be the 'gideongallery' of international tax laws.

:2 cents:

Those who cannot attack the thought, instead attack the thinker.~Paul Valery

Over the years, it has happened a couple of times that a program at first insists they need a w8 form form all foreign affiliates "because their accountant said they need it". When they eventually check things with their accountant, it always turns out that a w8 is only needed in very specific cases (as I described in this thread).

that's what I do when a program turns out to be engaging in fraudulent activities. When they refuse to pay foreign affiliates unless those affiliates sign a false statement.


Oh, I'm not trying to school you on international law. I'm pointing out a misconception about IRS requirements. And if you want to take this whole thing personal, as it seems to me you're doing, then so be it.

And for the record, I have discussed the different forms with my own accountant. He strongly advises against signing those w8 forms in my case because in my case they don't apply.


That's fair. You have the right to do business without whoever you want and you have the right to refuse to do business with whoever you want. And when, as you say, all remaining funds are paid, there's no problem.

What i was complaining about in this and a similar thread are programs that don't do the right thing and refuse to pay their affiliates. I'm sure you'll agree that THAT is shady.


Same here. I don't promote half of the EU based affiliate programs out there, because a surprisingly big part of them don't correctly apply the EU VAT directives. Being EU based myself, I don't risk doing business with them. When dealing with US based, I avoid those that require certain things from their foreign affiliates that my accountant calls risky.

Agreed on all accounts.

In the end, it comes down to you as an affiliate are going to do what you want (or your counsel advises you) and the affiliate program is going to do what their own counsel advises them. I know for me, I would listen to my counsel. After all, you are paying someone much more intelligent and versed in these matters than you or I.

I would not hold someone's income owed should the situation come up. I would simply pay what's owed, and wish you the best as I closed your account for your pleasure. After all, if I had been paying you for months or years, one more payment before closing their account is not going to change your liability one way or the other.

:2 cents:

In that case we agree on what ultimately is one of the most important things in business (as well in life), integrity.

u-bob what did you do in AFF's case after the've asked you for W8?

the've asked me to send w8, I then replied

then they replied with this!?!?:
wtf should I do, why would they ask me for this shit after years of promotion?

IRS is getting tougher
 

Due to changes in the US tax law, all businesses are required to issue 1099's to every business or individual the pay more than $600 in a year. Whether or not a W9 or W8 is on file.

W8 Instructions

"Purpose of form. Foreign persons are subject to U.S.tax at a 30% rate on income they receive from U.S.
sources that consists of:
Interest (including certain original issue discount (OID). Dividends; Rents; Premiums; Annuities;
Compensation for, or in expectation of, services performed; connected with the conduct of a trade or business in the
Substitute payments in a securities lending transaction; Other fixed or determinable annual or periodical gains, profits, or income."

The key sentence is "Compensation for, or in expectation of, services performed;"
You as an affiliate are expecting compensation for a service performed.


The US business is paying you money. To prove they paid out the money they must receive a W9 from any US based company or individual or a W8 from a foreign based company or individual. If they don't have this document on file, they are required to withhold 30% of the money due you. Companies don't want to fuck with the hassles of withholding. So they put in a policy, no W9 or W8, no payment.

You don't want to get paid, then don't fill out the form.

The statement
"If you are not a US citizen/company etc and do not own any property in the US and have no employees in the US, you must not file a w8ben form. If you do, then you're making a false statement."
IS TOTALLY INCORRECT
The fact that a US corporation is paying you, makes it US income, unless you fill out a W8 to prove you are not a US corporation or citizen.

You fill out the W8, the IRS won't tax you. However, they will report that money to the country you are in, if they have a tax treaty.

From the IRS's own website:
http://www.irs.gov/publications/p515/ar02.html
Oracle, icq me if you want me to send you an copy of the "USA Tax Certification Form ? Non-United States Citizen" form I use because W8 forms don't apply to my situation.

Every major mainstream program accepts it, so I guess it's fine :)
I stopped using AFF/FFN a few years ago, so I don't know what they'll do.

W8ben applies to US sourced income. "Sourced" refers to where the work was done, not where the one paying is located.

When you as an American visit Amsterdam, do you refuse to pay for your hotel room unless the hotel provides you with a w8 form?
When you as an American order a coffee in Paris, do you withhold 30% the price unless the waitress gives you a w8 form?

Switch to any other which doesn't require to fill out any forms :2 cents:

Well got an email from AFF to send a W8 form. After what ? 10 years with them if not more ???? I ain't US based nor do i have anything US based