At what point do profits become "greed"? - GoFuckYourself.com - Adult Webmaster Forum

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xenigo

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#1

At what point do profits become "greed"?

02-12-2012, 12:31 AM

I spend a lot of time reading Engadget, BGR, Yahoo News, etc. In every dialogue I watch on SOPA, DMCA, piracy, etc... and now reading commenter dialogue on Tribler news stories... I see content creator "greed" cited as one of the main catalysts for piracy.

Something along the lines of "Man, fuck MPAA, RIAA, and Hollywood... fuck those people who want to charge me $10 to see a movie. Fuck those assholes that wanna charge me $8 on iTunes. They make millions. They're just being greedy... so I'm totally gonna seed a torrent on PirateBay..."

So, in the name of preventing piracy, I would like to avoid becoming "greedy".

I don't want to offend anyone with my profits, clearly. That would be absolutely terrible.

So at what point does good old capitalism become "greed"? I think we need to figure this out.

I believe I have stumbled upon the secret to stopping piracy.
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#2

02-12-2012, 12:33 AM

When you did something illegal to obtain the "profit"

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#3

02-12-2012, 12:39 AM

There is none.

Greed is 'Good' -- Greed is American.

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02-12-2012, 12:42 AM

Originally posted by astronaut x

When you did something illegal to obtain the "profit"

Well, I agree. But I'm not sure people labeling others as such have the same mindset we do. I see people pointing fingers at people all the time on YouTube and Yahoo saying "20,000 sq foot house? That's the definition of greed!"
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#5

02-12-2012, 12:43 AM

Now I think about it a bit more... Greed really is good and it is America... But its when someone gets SOOOOOOOOOOOOO far ahead that 'the game' is no longer possible to play with them.

Zuck
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Buffet
Bill Gates
etc etc etc

Greed creates a fun game... but when you get so far ahead like these guys and thousands of others.... the game is Over.

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#6

02-12-2012, 12:59 AM

Ask Wall Street.
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#7

02-12-2012, 01:05 AM

greed is more than you need

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xenigo

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#8

02-12-2012, 01:07 AM

Originally posted by BIGTYMER

Ask Wall Street.

Wall Street definition of greed: Selling loans to unqualified overly-risky individuals... Rolling mortgages into mortgage backed securities, giving them false AAA ratings... selling them to unsuspecting lending institutions... riding our economy on a foundation of quicksand. Watching everything crumble, taking bailout money from government and paying bank executives exorbitant "performance bonuses". Basically shady business tactics that resulted in a collapse of our economy.

Cyber Thief definition of greed: Anyone who makes a lot of money online.
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#9

02-12-2012, 01:35 AM

Most of the companies these parasites accuse of greed employ 10,000s if not 100,000 of people. The parasites talk as if these are one/two man bands with all the money flowing into a few pockets. Without that excuse there parasitical actions have no cloak of respectability.

Yes a few musicians, actors, CEOs get paid a lot of money. Piracy effects them and the girl on the counter selling a ticket, DVD, etc. The girl on the counter loses her job and all her income, the musicians, actors, CEOs get paid a little less.

Linking Wall Street greed with parasites excuses is like linking a chicken to a cow, because they both live on a farm.

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xenigo

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#10

02-12-2012, 01:48 AM

Originally posted by Paul Markham

Linking Wall Street greed with parasites excuses is like linking a chicken to a cow, because they both live on a farm.

Yes. And beyond that, they're simply saying "It's easy and convenient for me to steal, so I am. Oh, and fuck you. I have the right to do it."

and then:

"Oh, I need an excuse so I can sound legit... you want my money because you're greedy."
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#11

02-12-2012, 02:15 AM

While some of these people may be intelligent, thoughtful individuals who oppose copyright for ideological reasons, for the most part you're arguing with spoiled brats who never experienced any real hardship or adversity in their life. Their ancestors fought for their right to live, now they're fighting for their right to live off of others. Now that is fucking greed right there.
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#12

02-12-2012, 02:30 AM

Originally posted by sixsax

Now that is fucking greed right there.

Amen.
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#13

02-12-2012, 02:32 AM

Here's something I posted on BGR in their story about Tribler:

Please clarify something I've been wanting to know for a long time now; At what point, exactly, does a company's profits become "greed"? I don't want to be greedy, but I do run a business for the sake of making money. I want to make sure I don't exceed that limit, and end up in the cross hairs of people labeling me as such... and then pirating everything I've ever created. If you can sense some sarcasm, you aren't mistaken. I've observed enough dialogue on this subject to discern that making any amount of money is considered "greed", and we can go round and round with the subjective definition. There is a growing movement towards trying to stop that from happening. If people want to continue to take away my financial motivation, people like myself won't have any inclination to continue creating content. That's the bottom line.

And to answer your question, people pirate content because they think "if it exists on the internet, it should be free." It's the "everyone's doing it" group-think mentality, and the "I don't know who I'm hurting, I don't know who they are" far-removed distance factor. There's also the "these people make MILLIONS, I'm not hurting them" self-entitled mentality. Let's not forget the "I pay Comcast $120 a month for 25 megabits so that gives me the right to download whatever I want" factor. And the "yeah, people get sued but it couldn't ever happen to me" factor. And then there's the displacement of responsibility "I'm not the one that uploaded it so I'm not the one who will get in trouble" factor. Oh and the "it's digital so it's not considered 'stealing'..." factor. People have a million justifications for stealing... and all of them are unique. None of them are justified.
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#14

02-12-2012, 02:41 AM

I think greed happens when it is purely for profit and nothing else, ie more than you 'need' as another member said. Yes everyone will have a different version of need, but in a capitalist society if your (individual) making >1m pa and are then still trying to squeeze out every last cent that is probably greedy.

In corporate for me it is when it become purely for shareholder profits. Large business' do have a social responsibility but when you start cutting jobs, or moving them offshore or making people work extra hours all just for a profit when you are already making billions of dollars, that is greed. (Of course fire people if they aren't performing)

Aus banks are a classic example. They now raise interest rates outside of our Reserve Banks cycle, just to make a profit. Because they have an oligopoly they can. They each make billions a year PROFIT and still cut back on jobs. Its this short term, shareholder driven, mentality that will eventually bring down large corporates like this.

On the other hand, there was a privately owned transport co here in Aus that recently sold for $200m. What did the owner do? Gave each of his staff a bonus (some up to 100k) based on the time they had been with the company.

Sustainabilty over Greed/Capitalism is where we need to move as a Western society in a World where scarcity is going to be forever increasing. Post-capitalism still has a long way to go to work itself out, but things are slowly changing in some areas.

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#15

02-12-2012, 02:51 AM

Greed is when a largely self-taught and only semi-competent photographer takes pictures of hot naked girls and shoots video clips which feature hot naked girls all the while thinking that it's his god given right to make an amount of money per year which is equal to or greater than the first 8-10 years of salary for someone with a bachelors in photography from NYU and a masters in photojournalism from Columbia and who takes pictures and shoots video of things other than hot naked girls all the while dodging bullets in motherfucking Lebanon.
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02-12-2012, 03:00 AM

Originally posted by jimmycooper

Greed is when a largely self-taught and only semi-competent photographer takes pictures of hot naked girls and shoots video clips which feature hot naked girls all the while thinking that it's his god given right to make an amount of money per year which is equal to or greater than the first 8-10 years of salary for someone with a bachelors in photography from NYU and a masters in photojournalism from Columbia and who takes pictures and shoots video of things other than hot naked girls all the while dodging bullets in motherfucking Lebanon.

Dollars are votes of confidence. If my customers genuinely love what I do, and they reward me with their dollars... that somehow makes me greedy?

(and I guess it would have to equal 8-10 years worth of someone else's salary?)

I don't think it's my right, but I don't see any greed going on there. All I see is customers voting for something they love, and wanting to reward the creator.
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#17

02-12-2012, 03:19 AM

Originally posted by jimmycooper

Greed is when a largely self-taught and only semi-competent photographer takes pictures of hot naked girls and shoots video clips which feature hot naked girls all the while thinking that it's his god given right to make an amount of money per year which is equal to or greater than the first 8-10 years of salary for someone with a bachelors in photography from NYU and a masters in photojournalism from Columbia and who takes pictures and shoots video of things other than hot naked girls all the while dodging bullets in motherfucking Lebanon.

?? photojournalist made their choice of what they wanted to do.

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#18

02-12-2012, 04:11 AM

greed is like drugs...just don't overdo it
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#19

02-12-2012, 04:44 AM

Originally posted by SlutsBukkake

I think greed happens when it is purely for profit and nothing else, ie more than you 'need' as another member said. Yes everyone will have a different version of need, but in a capitalist society if your (individual) making >1m pa and are then still trying to squeeze out every last cent that is probably greedy.

In corporate for me it is when it become purely for shareholder profits. Large business' do have a social responsibility but when you start cutting jobs, or moving them offshore or making people work extra hours all just for a profit when you are already making billions of dollars, that is greed. (Of course fire people if they aren't performing)

Aus banks are a classic example. They now raise interest rates outside of our Reserve Banks cycle, just to make a profit. Because they have an oligopoly they can. They each make billions a year PROFIT and still cut back on jobs. Its this short term, shareholder driven, mentality that will eventually bring down large corporates like this.

On the other hand, there was a privately owned transport co here in Aus that recently sold for $200m. What did the owner do? Gave each of his staff a bonus (some up to 100k) based on the time they had been with the company.

Sustainabilty over Greed/Capitalism is where we need to move as a Western society in a World where scarcity is going to be forever increasing. Post-capitalism still has a long way to go to work itself out, but things are slowly changing in some areas.

I'm living off my pension which was based on Shares. So I'm greedy?

Much of the rest is a recipe to justify communism and there we see real greed.

Nothing motivates man better than feeding his family. When he can give them bread he wants to give them cake, then cream, then a cherry on the cake. This is often labeled as greed. I find now I have little motivation, my family is well fed, we own the house, car and everything else. We don't have a swimming pool and yes it's only a 3 bedroom house, but I don't have any motivation and greed (need) would be a great one.

However after reading the blogging thread it might be nice to do something with a blog that's a little out of the box.

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#20

02-12-2012, 05:23 AM

Originally posted by xenigo

Dollars are votes of confidence. If my customers genuinely love what I do, and they reward me with their dollars... that somehow makes me greedy?

(and I guess it would have to equal 8-10 years worth of someone else's salary?)

I don't think it's my right, but I don't see any greed going on there. All I see is customers voting for something they love, and wanting to reward the creator.

First off, my comment was not directed at you. It wasn't directed at anyone in particular and you certainly have every right to do whatever it is you feel you need to do (within the bounds of ethical behavior) to maximize the profitability of your business. Just keep in mind that what you are doing as a content producer is just that. A business.

Creators who are truly passionate about their work tend to be driven more by the process of creating than by the profit potential of the end product.

Here's an excerpt from a blog post which I feel exemplifies that very point.

"Every professional photographer who?s ever shot a model in the nude remembers their very first experience. It?s practically the equivalent of your first kiss. It?s a feeling you can never forget. Your hands shake with nervous excitement and anticipation as you try to calm your nerves. Once you experience this, it stays with you for a lifetime.

As a former fashion model and ?consumer brand? art director (read: corporate art slut), photography had always been on the periphery of my life and one of my greatest passions. Finally, at age 29, I decided once and for all to make photography my career. I was living in New York City at the time and asked a friend who was a successful commercial photographer/cinematographer to give me some pointers. She quickly taught me the fundamentals of lighting, the ?zone system? and how cameras work. She also led me through books by the Masters like Ansel Adams, Sebastiao Salgado and Henri Cartier-Bresson, and gave me one very valuable piece of advice:

?Shoot what you love!?

From my heart, I knew that my greatest interest as a photographer was the female nude. I was drawn to the seemingly infinite beauty and creativity that this subject matter offered. It took a little soul searching to come terms with this; friends and family suggested I was just ?going through a phase?. But just two weeks later, I quit my marketing job, bought my first digital SLR, did a couple of test shoots for my portfolio and then hopped on a plane to Budapest."

And here's another:

"If you wanna label, if you need to label my work? Just call it fun! That?s what I call it and that?s why I do it. Sex, grrls, pussy, tits, naked, nasty, fucking, masturbation, kissing and so on is just that? FUN! My life is all about capturing the fun and having fun with it! We do not call shoots work, we call them playtime for a reason! It?s all about the fun and if it?s not going to be fun then I am NOT showing up!"

It's highly unlikely that anyone in this thread knows from where those quotes originated because over the pst two years you have all spent such a large amount of time whining like a bunch of stupid little cunts. You're probably also not familiar with what it's like to have the type of passion for your work that either of the above have theirs. What you dont understand is that it's that very passion which has enabled true creators like Brigham Field and Richard Avery to thrive with sites like X-Art and Juliland, while you clowns sit around in internet forums bitching about the same shit day after day with the likes of Jim Gunn and the disgusting shit-loving Belgian cat freak.

That's all.

Originally posted by ottopottomouse

?? photojournalist made their choice of what they wanted to do.

No shit. They are not the ones sitting around and complaining like a bunch of whiny little cunts. They do what they do because they want to do what they do. Why do you do whatever the fuck it is that you do?

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#21

02-12-2012, 06:06 AM

When you start fucking people over. For example see banks.

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#22

02-12-2012, 06:15 AM

Copyright length of Life of the author + 70 years in not greed ...
http://copyright.cornell.edu/resources/publicdomain.cfm
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#23

02-12-2012, 06:22 AM

if the jews are making money it's greed.
If the muslims are making money it's terrorism.
If the gypsies are making money they are thieves.
If the african-americans are making money that's because they are selling crack.
If the white people are making money that's because they are stealing the 3rd world.
If the chinese are making money that's because they are copying copyrighted stuffs.

And if chris mallick is making money that's because his movies are the best.
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#24

02-12-2012, 06:48 AM

Greed and power should be outlawed. Arrest bankers and punish the rich. Do i sound like a 99%er yet?

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#25

02-12-2012, 06:54 AM

Since in this case, "greed" is going to be defined by losers, i seriously doubt there is ever going to be a satisfactory definition. In this case anyone who is successful is labeled "greedy" by losers.

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#26

02-12-2012, 06:57 AM

also, in the case of online piracy.. people aren't stealing because of some long internatal deliberation and dialogue about what is an acceptable level of profit. in most cases, its to rebel and act out against authority. "greedy studios" just becomes one more rationalization for theft... because no one HAS to buy entertainment from movie studios and no one HAS to steal it.

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#27

02-12-2012, 07:19 AM

Originally posted by xenigo

People have a million justifications for stealing... and all of them are unique. None of them are justified.

Nonsense. If someone can't afford food for themselves of their family, for example, then they are perfectly justified in "stealing" it. Theft is a cost of doing business, and copying is not even even theft.
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#28

02-12-2012, 07:32 AM

Originally posted by helterskelter808

Nonsense. If someone can't afford food for themselves of their family, for example, then they are perfectly justified in "stealing" it. Theft is a cost of doing business, and copying is not even even theft.

Theft is never justified. Millions of hungry people around the world live in extreme poverty and they do not resort to theft.

Also if "copying" is not stealing go copy the US dollar and try to explain it to the police...I mean you did not "Steal" anything right? Go and do it or STFU

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#29

02-12-2012, 07:34 AM

I ask myself this everytime I'm at a casino when I'm up a lot of money......and then end up walking out with nothing but my car keys.
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#30

02-12-2012, 07:34 AM

Originally posted by crucifissio

Theft is never justified. Millions of hungry people around the world live in extreme poverty and they do not resort to theft.

well they should.
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#31

02-12-2012, 07:36 AM

Originally posted by helterskelter808

Nonsense. If someone can't afford food for themselves of their family, for example, then they are perfectly justified in "stealing" it. Theft is a cost of doing business, and copying is not even even theft.

We are talking about stealing entertainment... not food to feed a baby. And no matter what you think, "theft" is still "theft" regardless of your rationalization for it.

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#32

02-12-2012, 07:36 AM

Is a pro athlete with a big multi-million contract being greedy? Or is he maximizing his talent and current demand for his services?
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#33

02-12-2012, 07:49 AM

Originally posted by porno jew

well they should.

riiight....you have no problem with poor people bursting in your house and taking everything you have...oh wait you are just a two faced troll like the guy who claims "copying aint stealing" but we will not practice what he preaches and copy money and go explain it to the police how its OK...because he is also a silly troll...

I can envision you, being robbed, with a smile on your face saying "it's ok rob me! I have more money than you poor people take everything"...

But hey don't let the painfully obvious fact that you don't really mean what you are saying deter you from posting it anyway....we all believe you we really do

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#34

02-12-2012, 07:51 AM

It doesn't matter at all. The people who justify stealing by claiming "Greed" would find another reason to justify their actions even if you gave away every dollar you made.

Thieves steal, it's as simple as that.
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#35

02-12-2012, 07:52 AM

Originally posted by crucifissio

Millions of hungry people around the world live in extreme poverty and they do not resort to theft.

Leaving aside the fact that you have absolutely no clue what "millions of hungry people around the world" do or don't do to survive, are you seriously arguing that extreme poverty or starvation is preferable to theft? If so, I'll stop now, because it's pointless trying to debate with such a total fucking imbecile.

Also if "copying" is not stealing go copy the US dollar and try to explain it to the police...I mean you did not "Steal" anything right?

Copy a drawing you made of your penis and tell the police. See if they consider it stealing.

Go and do it or STFU

Make me STFU, or STFU.
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#36

02-12-2012, 07:55 AM

Originally posted by TheSquealer

We are talking about stealing entertainment... not food to feed a baby. And no matter what you think, "theft" is still "theft" regardless of your rationalization for it.

Okay, I download a movie. What have I stolen?
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#37

02-12-2012, 07:59 AM

Originally posted by helterskelter808

Leaving aside the fact that you have absolutely no clue what "millions of hungry people around the world" do or don't do to survive, are you seriously arguing that extreme poverty or starvation is preferable to theft? If so, I'll stop now, because it's pointless trying to debate with such a total fucking imbecile.

Copy a drawing you made of your penis and tell the police. See if they consider it stealing.

Make me STFU, or STFU.

Well I'm a double refugee and I have been through 2 wars and I live in a 3rd world shit hole...but you obviously know more about poverty than me LOL you are poor in the brain...

The rest of your post is the intellectual equivalent of stomping your feet on the floor like a 5 year old...not that the first part made you look like the sharpest pencil in the box LOL

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#38

02-12-2012, 08:00 AM

Greed gets you a boat. A big boat.
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#39

02-12-2012, 08:02 AM

Greed is thought of by those without. If they had it too it would be all good

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#40

02-12-2012, 08:07 AM

"greed" is a rationale for theft by the entitled.

These are people who have never created anything tried to sell it.
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#41

02-12-2012, 08:09 AM

A decent solution to piracy would be a la carte bandwidth. If someone has to pay an extra 50 bucks (or more)per month because they need to download more than the average person, then you'll see a huge drop in piracy.
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#42

02-12-2012, 08:14 AM

Originally posted by pornmasta

if the jews are making money it's greed.
If the muslims are making money it's terrorism.
If the gypsies are making money they are thieves.
If the african-americans are making money that's because they are selling crack.
If the white people are making money that's because they are stealing the 3rd world.
If the chinese are making money that's because they are copying copyrighted stuffs.

And if chris mallick is making money that's because his movies are the best.

That seems to sum it up pretty damn good.

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#43

02-12-2012, 08:31 AM

Originally posted by helterskelter808

Okay, I download a movie. What have I stolen?

Every surfer you send to a sponsor... every join you would have had figured out where to get the content for free and downloaded it and as a result, you made $0.00.

...what have they stolen?

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#44

02-12-2012, 08:54 AM

Remember the rich are rich because they have taken more than they should from the majority, or have just stolen it .

Like Facebook, takes everyones data and sells it. Is it really theirs to take?

Or land, taken by the gun in the past and used to perpetuate social inequality now.

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#45

02-12-2012, 08:58 AM

So you think that paying $10 to see a movie is too much to ask for.

I gave this some thought while I was on working on this beautiful Sunday morning. Let's take the first Sherlock Holmes movie in 2009 - Grossed Five Hundred and Twenty-three dollars to date. That's a lot and even more so when you figure it only costs them one hundred million to make. But you need to look at the bigger picture. That movie was made by Silver Pictures, which makes a film or two a year. That same year they also made another movie that was a complete loss. Then factor in the amount of money they spend on advertising, which isn't included in the cost of production. Sherlock Holmes made them a lot of money, but but other movies were made at a loss.

Then factor in that half the money made was shared with another production company.

And when you spend $10 for a movie, not all of that money goes to the production company. Your paying for the theater itself, it's staff, it's insurance, it's advertising, etc etc etc etc.

Makes you think, doesn't it?

Herschel Savage
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u-Bob

there's no $$$ in porn

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#46

02-12-2012, 09:14 AM

http://mises.org/daily/5903/The-Myst...Marginal-Pairs
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TheSquealer

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#47

02-12-2012, 09:37 AM

Originally posted by Rochard

So you think that paying $10 to see a movie is too much to ask for.

Yes, they think stealing entertainment of all things, is a basic human right... and trying to make it sound as if "the man" is charging 100.00 for a 1/4 cup of baby formula and there are no other options or choices but to pay or the baby dies.

Last edited by TheSquealer; 02-12-2012, 09:40 AM.

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Yes, fewer illegal immigrants working equates to more job opportunities for American citizens.

Rochard
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helterskelter808

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#48

02-12-2012, 10:15 AM

How about $100 for a cinema ticket? If you think that is greed, then the only difference between you and them is that you differ on the number. If the ticket was $5 who's to say ten times as many people would watch? Also, it assumes everything is equal. You might not mind paying $10 for a good movie, but unfortunately most movies are complete shit. That's theft, ripping people off with an overpriced, substandard product.

Plus I'm pretty sure cinemas make their money on the overpriced popcorn and coke. Shit even Murdoch complained about it.

Last edited by helterskelter808; 02-12-2012, 10:19 AM.
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Jim_Gunn

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#49

02-12-2012, 10:49 AM

Originally posted by jimmycooper

...It's highly unlikely that anyone in this thread knows from where those quotes originated because over the pst two years you have all spent such a large amount of time whining like a bunch of stupid little cunts. You're probably also not familiar with what it's like to have the type of passion for your work that either of the above have theirs. What you dont understand is that it's that very passion which has enabled true creators like Brigham Field and Richard Avery to thrive with sites like X-Art and Juliland, while you clowns sit around in internet forums bitching about the same shit day after day with the likes of Jim Gunn and the disgusting shit-loving Belgian cat freak....

Why did you see fit to invoke my name in this thread, lol? I never bitch in this forum because I am quite satisfied with my work, lifestyle, money and business relationships. And frankly there is no one like me participating here. I took a job originally only paying $350 per week to get myself into the business twenty years ago back in the VHS days because I wanted to get an opportunity to shoot what I love- new young teen girls. I enjoy finding them, picking their clothes and settings out, trying to get them to have a real orgasm on camera and sometimes even getting them to squirt for the first time among other firsts. And now all these years later I am busier than ever doing that and similar types of production for clients all over the world where my work is seen and enjoyed by millions of people every week.
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$5 submissions

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#50

02-12-2012, 01:41 PM

Here's a clue: ALL societies run on GREED. Capitalism is an economic system that turns this TRUTH into an engine that benefits a wider group of people than other systems. It's not perfect but the alternatives suck.

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