wrong. not every 10 years. solar panels on average have a lifespan of 20-25 years.

and you don't "dump" lead batteries, you recycle them. there are plenty of battery recycling facilities all over the world.

but i would agree natural gas is a good alternative with caveats such as fracking damage etc.


once again, who is ignoring arsenic and lead? safe recycling is the key.

.

Bzzzht! Wrong, sir Baddog.

The Tesla Model S gets 300 Miles on a single charge and does not lose power while parked for long periods of time. Its range is actually longer than most gas cars with the same performance.

:1orglaughWhere do you get your info? link please...:helpme
The disposal of HIGH level nuke waste is a growing crisis whether you want to believe it or not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioactive_waste

The car can be plugged in to any 110v or 220v outlet, and can also be charged into any electric charging station that are now being built as as the new super-charger stations.

man, man, man...

:Oh crap

(and btw - i dont like electric cars with batteries either)

Gasoline powered cars are very inefficient. Less than 10% of the energy in gas is actually converted into motion in a car. The other 90% is lost in excess heat and exhaust which itself contributes to greenhouse gas and other dangerous pollutants. Electricity at this level is much cleaner, cheaper, and spits out no pollution to move it.

Most electricity produced in Canada is Hyrdoelectic, meaning it is produced by water, which is sold to the US. Yes the US Still uses Coal for alot of electric power but this too can change.

Nuclear power is still much safer than coal. Including Japan, there are only 0.04 deaths per Terawatt hour vs Coal's 161 Deaths.

They've put up a few charging stations here in Orlando and business have figured out that having one in front of their business is a good way of attracting customers. I believe a Hooters or Wing House had one put in next to their restaurant. Customer comes in to get something to eat while their car gets a quick charge. This is only the beginning and more people will adapt and innovate as electric cars become more common and eventually the norm.

Nah... Solar panels aren't any good for home use yet. They are so expensive that it takes 10 years to recover the cost of installation. I wish they were better but.

Mark, I was wondering about this. If you are idling in trafic jams for hours, how would that effect the range ?

It takes 30 minutes to get a 300 Mile charge. Not as fast as Gasoline, but then again a full charge will cost only about $5.00 of electricity vs $60.00 of Gasoline.

easily done, get a 5-10k solar charging kit for your garage and you're saving $$$ in no time considering you'll otherwise be paying 2-3k minimum every year for gas...

.

You may not be around to see the "old folks" getting heart attacks, if you insist on driving like that :winkwink:

Good point, but the waste from Oil, Coal and Gasoline is shot into the air, and breathed into your lungs (and your kids lungs). Furthermore the waste is coming from not only coal plants, but from your own car.

Alot of people are afraid of nuclear for the wrong reasons, but are somehow not at all afraid of coal and gas, which kills tens of thousand of people every year. It's the same irrational thinking that make people afraid to fly. (More people die in car crashes than in air crashes)

These cars by Tesla are beautiful and exactly what the population needs.

However, something isn't right here. How come an outside company is able to make cars like these, but the big automotive companies are still dicking around with silly hybrids? With all of the vast amounts of money these big car companies have combined with their research facilities, why is it that only a brand new company is able to make these cars?

And as for Baddog's comments about range, well, we'll need to change our driving habits. I understand that Baddog is retired and all he does is drive around the country because he's bored to death, but in the future we won't be taking long road trips in our cars. If your going outside of your range, you'll either need to crash someplace for the night or take a train.

you know what the biggest problem in energy is? energy consumption. we would need half of the energy we produce if people would be forced to use it more responsibly

I see two problems with electric cars:

1 ) In a car crash how safe will it be to touch a cable in that car or any metal surface if the battery is damaged and leaking electricity to the car chassis? My diesel powered Ford has not that problem... Until a mechanical killswitch is implemented this kind of cars cannot be considered safe.

2 ) When the batteries run out, will I have 5 minute full recharge option like I have on gas stations with my current car?

Until these problems get really solved, I don't think electrical cars are even a competition to traditional cars.

Sooner or later, they will increase the cost of charging , at the behest of Big Oil. Adding surcharges etc, so it wont be as attractive an alternative:2 cents:

You can find some of the answers in a 2006 documentary called "who killed the electric car"

There is no engine to idle.

OK, but you still have to power all the acessorries, lights, etc and sitting in trafic will not help:winkwink:

Again, they are only good for around town and they are not very economical or good for the earth's wellness.

Anyone that thinks 300 miles is a lot is probably one of those people that are born and buried within 50 miles of each other with no venturing out of their comfort zone. I know you people are here.

300 miles is at 55 MPH. Who drives on the open road at 55 MPH? Besides, that is like Dodge saying you will get 30 MPG highway and 25 in the city. Those numbers are NEVER accurate unless you drive with the wind at your back and coast down hills.

Granted, but the electrical car will be an alternative. In the US, 82% of the people reside in cities and suburbs. Most of these people don't drive more than 300 miles daily and having them use an electrical alternative will definitely help decrease the human damage on the environment ( not to mention lowering their monthly expenses ). Internal combustion engine cars will probably still exist for a very long time and for very good reasons, but the majority will switch to electrical.

By the same logic we should still be writing our documents by carving them into stone! Think about it, if a meteor strikes the Earth now, what will be left of "our" civilization ? What will resist better ? Tiny writings on pieces of paper ? Microscopic grooves made into cd's and blu ray discs ? Or good old fashioned writing carved out of granite ?

Advanced technology is like a tower that's taller and taller. As we advance, it becomes easier and easier to topple. What's your solution ? Going back to the stone age ?

so what happens when you run out of charge ?

example.. i am driving down the road.. the car runs out of juice..

can you pop in some "AA" batteries to get to a plugin or do i have to have it towed.?

on the website it says 30 minutes for 160 miles ONLY on their special built supercharging stations that are much further apart than 160 miles. At home it would take you much longer. If you have to plugin to your standard wall outlet on a trip you will be waiting hours.

If you buy the special twin charger for home you get 60 miles for every hour of charge, otherwise you will be getting 30 miles for an hour of charge. That means for every hour you drive you will have to charge up for 2 hours.

It would surly be a pain to drive cross country in what is available today but they've already extended the range from the first cars available and I don't see why they won't come up with a way to push it to 500 miles and beyond. The day might come when they far out do gas cars and people will say why stop twice to put gas in my car when I can go twice as far on one charge.

It won't be long before business see the value in charging stations and places like Hotels, Restaurants, Malls and Walmart will offer free charging to attract customers much like free WiFi is offered today. As they become more available one could plan a trip evolving several hundred miles by choosing stops for food and sleep that also have charging available. The smoother the system gets the more it will become second nature. Probably even have apps for that :)

As for speed, once all the manufacturers get on board the speed will follow. Porsche and BMW have some exciting stuff in the works. This is the dawn of electric cars. Twenty years from now it will be much more acceptable.

A very limited alternative at the current price tag. :2 cents:

Possibly, at some point in time. Luckily, I will be dead before it becomes a standard. It would suck to have to take up wagon trains and horseback to do any kind of exploring.


http://www.gotbaddog.com/wp-content/.../cody_4605.jpg

http://www.gotbaddog.com/wp-content/.../cody_4619.jpg

Sweet ride, wouldn't mind one of those.

John Jeremiah Liver-eating Johnston:thumbsup

He was a bad-ass. Got the name because he went on a revenge killing of Crow Indians. They had killed his wife and unborn child when he was away. He went on a rampage, not only scalping his victims, but cutting their livers out. It was presumed he ate them, but no confirmation that I am aware of.

WTF.....Ok......:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

with or without onions ?:helpme

One of my favorite movies :thumbsup

As for the wagons, I can just imagine the pioneers sitting around the campfire and one of them is telling the others about how some guy in the east was trying to put an engine on the wagon so you no longer need a horse and all the others saying it will never happen because you could only go so far on a tank of gas and then you'd have to find some more gas. Why do that when grass is everywhere for your horse :winkwink:

Well, considering the location, I am going out on a limb and suggest sans onions.

Not sure I have ever seen it. I probably should though.

And then they polluted the land with gas stations. And let's not even get into how we fucked up the southwest with train tracks and telegraph lines.

No wonder the Indians were pissed.

(But I get what you are saying)

0-60 doesn't mean a thing. Electric motors develop their peak torque at 0 RPM anyway, but they taper off once they get going. I'm more interested in what the 60-120 times are.

While this is a Hybrid it shows where the technology is headed and puts to rest any fear for the lack of performance and those that think electric cars in the future will be nothing more than disguised golf carts :winkwink:

:2 cents::2 cents:

I stopped driving completely while living in Miami for 3 years. Its easy NOT to drive..

Just like the first mobile phones.

a former german imperator once said that cars are just a fad sinces horses are perfectly fine for what they are needed for

EXACTLY!!

New technology is always very expensive for the first adopters ... as the technology creators try to recoup as much of their R&D as they can, as quickly as they can ... but it is not long before they must reduce their prices to make the technology viable for the masses, or fade into obscurity.

The same Tesla S Sedan that is $60 out of the gate in 2012, will probably settle somewhere in the $35-40 thousand range by 2015 ...

I suggest bolting a Honda generator on the roof. That way you can drive while recharging.

.

How did you get around? Bicycle, cab?

As I was gassing up the Charger earlier I thought back to this thread and realized that with one of these innovative cars I could not even pick up a passenger at the airport unless they had zero baggage. I doubt I could get my two carry-on pieces in the car and have a passenger as well.

If you live in Miami, NYC or San Francisco. Try surviving in LA or Valparaiso without one. :2 cents:

Right, mobile phone started off at what, 3 figures, compared to this that is 5 or 6. Oh yeah, phones come with a 2 year contract, how will they do that with electric cars?

Not sure if this is referring to the Model S, or the video embed (I didn't watch it), but for refrence the Model S has a heap of cargo space, more then pretty much any similar car on the market. The battery lays flat on the floor, so you have both a massive boot and the 'frunk'.


It's a car, of course it will always cost more. Are you saying people will stop buying cars because they can't get them down to the price of a mobile phone? A mobile phone isn't the target, a competitive price relative to gas cars is. Given the quality of the sedan it is already competitive with similar cars (Merc's, etc), however their next planned iteration is a $30k car, that is a 3~ years off though.

Contract is irrelevant, as stated above. You don't get 5 years free fuel with your current car either.

Haters gotta hate.

I don't drive. I stopped a long time ago - right after it stopped being fun.There is no fucking way I'd ever spend $60K on a car that can only go 300 miles (best case).

In Toronto it doesn't matter how far a car can go on a charge, it matters more how long it can idle in traffic. If it can't idle for four to six hours, its useless.

Besides, electric cars are the biggest joke of the last century. My pretty battery-powered car is so green! But the coal-fueled and nuclear powerplants that it relies on aren't.

Haters gotta hate? Sheesh.

Stop being logical.

Odin, where do the kids sit?

There is technically 7 seats in the car. However the two rear facing seats are only for children, and can be folded down for storage. See this video as a demo:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=fRzdvLLQiYY&hd=1 - watch from 4:50 on.

I do believe in this car/company, not purely because it is electric though. If you watch some of the detailed videos and reviews on it (for instance watch the full video of the beta release) you will understand just how well engineered this car is. It is quite possibly the best engineered car in the US on pretty much every front. Keep in mind the founder and CEO of Tesla is also the founder and CEO of SpaceX, the company that will be docking with the ISS in a couple months and soon take over cargo and potentially human cargo for NASA. They are heavy on engineering talent, and very engineering focused, and it shows in their product.

[QUOTE=Caligari;18660026]wrong. not every 10 years. solar panels on average have a lifespan of 20-25 years.

You have batteries that last 20-25 years?!?! patent that shit! That's what puerile forever about solar power - the batteries cost more than the panels, and pollute more. As far as solar panels, the manufacturers of solar panels claim that they retain 90% of their capacity for ten years, 80% for fifteen years, and 60% for twenty years. So only if a) you believe the manufacturer isn't being the least bit optimistic and b) you're happy with getting held of the tasted output could you ever get 20 years out of photovoltaics.

You like solar. You wish everyone could use it. Great. The first step in getting solar used more is to have an understanding of how it can actually be used. I like Linux. I promote Linux. I don't go around saying that Linux is compatible with more games than Windows is because when people found out I was lying that would HURT the reputation of Linux. Same with solar. If you want to promote solar, be intellectually honest about it and promote it to people living in south Florida. Saying it's viable in New Hampshire hurts your cause, as does claiming that solar manufacturers are lying and their product lasts twice as long as they say it will, or claiming that a $25,000 solar system and three sets of fifteen batteries each is cheaper than paying your electric bill.


Look up how much arsenic, cadmium, and other toxic metals are released during the MANUFACTURING if the panel. You may be able to recycle the dead panel in 10-15 years, but that's too late because before you even take them out of the box you've already poisoned the planet during the manufacturing process. You might decide that you'd rather have arsenic pollution than carbon dioxide pollution and that's a perfectly logical decision. You can't intelligently make that decision as long as you pretend that recycling the panel afterwards will undo tbe release of toxins, though.

I'm a former member of Greenpeace. I'm all about protecting the environment. I just think that to ACTUALLY protect the environment we have to be honest with ourselves rather than being a fanboy, picking something our team likes and pretending it's perfect.