Absolutely incorrect. That is what YOU want the purpose of copyright to be but that's not it's original purpose. It is right there in the Constitution you know?

I never knew there was anything about copyright law in the constitution.

Help me out...quote the constitution where it explains copyright law. And then educate me on what current copyright law is. I'd like to show my attorney where he and the rest of the legal industry have got this all wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_Clause

I'm sure your lawyers are well aware of what copyright law has been transformed into but protecting producers for life was not the purpose. It has always been for the spread of information with the greater good of society in mind.

http://www.ladas.com/NII/CopyrightPurpose.html

And of course it was Paul that came in here with a typical derailment. This is a side issue of the regular discussion that had some interesting comments from all sides. He has been shown this stuff before, I should have just let his post go.

Ok, as I read that...the whole purpose of Copyright is exactly what I've been talking about...to stop the killing of production and ideas and new content.

I think we're together on that. I think that nobody should be able to take my vid 5 minutes after I release it and put it on their pirate site and make money off of ad sales while I lose my ass.

As for arguments about lifetime copyright and such...I am not even interested in that argument as it has zero to do with my work or the porn biz in general. For the most part...porn is a time sensitive.

Unless you're trying to run a "retro" porn site...the only thing that makes a big difference is your latest update. The older stuff is the body of work that keeps your customers happy, but without that latest update they soon leave anyway.

I'm happy with what I'm seeing as the founding father's original intention. And that original intention is EXACTLY what piracy is killing. It's stopping new material from being profitable for the creators.

You base that on what, a guess? You're the one starting the threads claiming to know the future and have all the answers, so the burden of proof is on you.

You should realize that it's not about the absolute dollar amount when it comes to what HBO spends on production, it's what the relation that is to their income compared to a porn site. Just saying that HBO spends more on production proves nothing and shows you either have little formal business knowledge or you are being disingenuous in your argument.

Google HBOs operating expenses and the revenue they generate and then compare it to a known porn site's numbers and tell me which one is overcharging based on income related to operating expenses. I bet you will find they are either very close, or the porn site actually has operating expenses as a higher percentage of their income than HBO.

Once again, you are the one claiming to know everything, so the burden of proof is on you to prove it. There is no question that people are buying porn membership in smaller numbers. But just based on the stats, a porn membership to a quality paysite is actually a very good value based on other entertainment choices no matter how you slice the numbers. Of course, I'm talking about a quality paysite, like an FTV Girls, Met Art, etc,. with years worth of videos available for the price of $30.

Once again, you may be right with whatever secret sites you are working on to make money. But to call membership based entertainment services old fashioned is incorrect based on the behavior of customers and the fact that most every American is paying for at least one monthly based entertainment option. And calling a porn membership to a quality paysite a poor value is also incorrect based on the numbers.

Bottom line, people are buying less porn because of piracy and the fact that it's now available for free, it has nothing to do with it being overpriced.

BTW, I'm not defending the porn industry. I got into this business when the tubes were already here, so I never saw the glory days and I've also never seen a decline in sales because I started during the piracy era. Not to mention, unlike most webmasters here, I made money before porn, porn wasn't the first thing I made money doing. So if it ever stopped being profitable, I would just leave. My point is that I'm not defending the porn paysite model or trying to hold on to the old days since I was never here for any of that, I'm just trying to make sure the argument is at least accurate.

You're right Jim. Porn producers not only face legal risks, but also a thousand other things that a mainstream production company shooting for HBO would never have to deal with.

And yes...the percentage of income used to produce a porn scene is much higher for us than it is for giant conglomerates that make Hollywood movies.

Fact is that the recurring billing model is all around us and everyone is used to it. From your electric bill, to your cable bill, etc., etc.

The "business model" isn't broke at all. It's just simple supply and demand.

When you HAD to pay for it to get good porn...people paid. When they get more porn than they are ever going to be able to view in an entire lifetime on Pornhub? They no longer pay for it.

Yes a law created On August 18, 1787 has so much relevance today, if you profit from piracy.

Keeping this law actually has the opposite effect of what the Constitution intended. Time to amend it.
As for lifetime protection, why not. It takes that long now to make the money back. Pre Internet I could return 10 times the investment on a scene in a year. Today it might take a life time for someone to make their money back. you just want tons of traffic on free site to sell traffic off of.

Sorry, is me pointing out things you don't want to discuss mean side tracking the thread?

How many of the sites that you get traffic from are 100% piracy free? List some to see where your coming from.

1.2 million uniques. If 1-100 were buying on a 50% rev share of a 2 month average membership. Your revenue per day would of been 30 cents on average per unique and $360,000 $2,520,000 a week.

Truth is that you were giving free content for surfers to get off to so they didn't have to pay for porn. Your 1.2 million were probably mostly the same loyal people to your free porn. So the uniques Monday, were the same for the rest of the week. Don't nit pick you know what I mean.

Yesterday you were destroying sales, today free is hurting your sales and you crossed the road.

No it won't. Because of Tubes that own content and the rush of paysites to get some traffic scraps off legal free Tubes will keep giving them tons of free legal content. The only thing that will turn back the clock to the good days is the price of giving away free porn being too expensive to give it away.

Few people have anything so uniques and great that it isn't cloned and available for free from another supplier.

Seriously Robbie you live in the past. Traffic sellers is living in today's world and profiting from piracy and free content. If you think eliminating piracy will bring back the ratios of 2005, your dreaming.

Remove porn from the Internet and it will bring back the revenues of 1998. Now that's the truth. Your "expanded market" argument you shot down in flames yourself with the 1.2 million. Most of them who were buying and still buying were in places porn was widely available. If you were converting 1-1,000 you would be long gone and retired.

$252,000 a week - $1,000,000 a month, $12,000,000 a year.

That would of put you into the area of a small porn shop's revenue and profit. A very small porn shop :1orglaugh

Paul your numbers and understanding of what I did are so far off it's just ridiculous.
I gave away free SAMPLES that were given to me and authorized by the content owners to maximize their sales.

I made more people money with more sales in a week than you ever have in your whole life.

It's not even close to being the same thing as piracy.

As for sites with legally licensed full scenes for free? They are cutting their own throat. And when a new law is finally passed they will all backpedal very quickly because their content will once again have value and they are throwing it away.

I know you think you know more than I do. And I don't hold that against you. But trust me Paul...when it comes to making money and knowing how to create, sell, write, produce, direct, and edit porn...you aren't in my league.

And no...don't tell me that yes you are or start naming some big "name" pornographer. My stats and my bank account and most importantly my CONTINUED success say that you're wrong.

But thanks for trolling the hell out of me when I'm trying to have a serious discussion. You definitely earned that award last year, and you're well on your way to winning it again. :)

Nothing said of any importance in a reply as usual. If you made more money in a week ever, it was long ago in times past and I highly doubt it. As you have no clue made. And if you made that much a week, you would be a multimillionaire closer to a billionaire than you think.

Anyway that aside, you live in the past. It doesn't matter if it was legal or pirated porn, it was free porn and that free porn was devastating the offline porn market. Which is where the vast majority of your money came from. The billing stats would show the countries, Western Countries with CCs and a decent access to the Internet and offline porn. You were giving it away to offline buyers and didn't care a hoot if your online free porn site was devastating other parts of porn.

Now the tables are turned and all you can blame is piracy. 10 years of teaching surfers not to pay for porn has made the shit hit the fan with the Big Tube sites. Now free porn is the demon, the demon you created and profited from.

Do you really think Manwin will sit back and do nothing and see their income from free porn disappear in a matter of months?

Do you think all the people who now don't pay for porn and download pirated porn will rush back to buying?

Do you think your sites are so unique that surfers have to buy that content and nothing else? Which means your boasts of protecting it are empty.

Here's what will happen if a sledge hammer hits piracy.

Music, film, games, programming industry profits will soar. Porn's profits will remain much the same with a few exceptions. The reason is simple. The fore mentioned don't spend all their time teaching surfers not to pay for music, films, games, programs, etc. Porn does. So the people now enjoying free pirated porn will move to free legal porn.

And your 1.2 million uniques a day will look like a blip. And the profits will be the around
same.

Traffic sellers will get over it, with pirated sites gone, the advertisers on these sites will have to buy adverts on legal Tube sites. So more profits for legal Tube sites to buy legal porn.

It's 2011 and until it becomes unprofitable to give away recorded porn to sell ad space this is how it will remain.

a real businessman would see this and not live in a fantasy world. Dreaming that Manwin will suddenly stop giving away free porn and taking traffic away from paysites. If that's the level of your business acumen, then you're not that good.

as for your porn level, give me a login to your site and I will see what that level is. I do know this. I have made enough to retire and not wish about the past to return, so I can make more money. I made enough in times before you clever guys decided to give it away for free. Yes we all know you made 100s of $millions from the TGP days. So retire and stop bitching, you like me had your days and it's time to forget the past.

The irony is noted fellows. I miss the days when a set was worth $3,000 to a shooter who did nothing else. The days before everything was free. But it's 2011 and I might turn my sites into free legal tube sites if they get rid of piracy. Like our friends at porn.com did and many more will. Maybe Robbie should do the same. :1orglaugh

Yeah, I was responding to Paul saying that the purpose of copyright was to "protect the creators of a product from every Tom, Dick and Harry thinking he can "share" his one copy with the world".

The only reason they granted copyright was to keep the flow of creative ideas going by giving people an incentive to release their copyrighted material. They didn't care about someone being able to profit from their work, that was just a side effect that was begrudgingly accepted. We are on the same page about that being the law, always was. I brought it up to show that it wasn't done because they wanted everyone making money on this stuff, they just accepted it.

Anyhow, I see he's already responded more to steer the conversation in yet another direction. I'll just let him spew I suppose.

In regards to your HBO comment, I never felt like pouring over their books. NetFlix on the other hand, the amount of money they were projected to spend just on licensing content in 2012 is about $90 per streaming customer not counting operating expenses. I can find no data on what they spent this year, was 10% of that amount in 2010.

Also, I never said that people will not spend $30 per month. However, most here (and you've made the same argument) is that the entire industry would be OK without piracy. FTV girls will always get some members at $30, so will niche sites that can't be easily reproduced. What you will not see is 10,000 paysites all commanding $30 per month from their users at this point. FTV has value, some random girls getting fucked site does as well but I'll be damned if it's $30 per month.

To you. If Joe Surfer thinks it has, then it has, period. Atm fuck all has value because everything's everywhere for jack shit.

really put your shit out under cc-sa and i will do the same

see which one of us sells more.

So what motive other than profit do you propose should be used "to keep the flow of creative ideas going by giving people an incentive to release their copyrighted material."?

Would love to have an answer on this.

Maybe a timeline, say 10 years. Or if that's too long 10 months. But that might mean some works would never be created as it takes longer to show a profit.

Maybe a limit on profit. Would it be 100% profit or 1,000% or what?

The side effect that was begrudgingly accepted was the motivation. You sound like a communist. No seriously, your ideas seem to be very left wing. I thought like you until I released that the only reason works of art like Sgt Peppers, Tommy, Dark Side, The Wall and more were ever allowed to be created was. A big music company funding the production because of the incentive of a profit.

Yes ignore me, because coming up with a reply is so hard. :1orglaugh

The Paul Markham reply template:

[1]Ignore every point made in the post you are quoting and begin brainstorming content to fill reply template[/1]

[2]Some sort of baseless calculation to show what kind of profits can or could have been made doing this and that[/2]

[3]Talk about how it was and how you think it is now, make sure to mention anyone who thinks otherwise is clueless.[/3]

[4]Free porn killed porn[/4]

[5]A series 2-5 irrelevant questions that show how much you don't know about what you're talking about[/5]

[6]A short, mostly fictional and/or exaggerated story to maximize wall of text[/6]

[7]Point your fingers at traffic sellers and buyers for no reason[/7]

[8]Ask to see webmasters sites for no reason[/8]

[9]Remind everyone you don't have time for losers and need to get back to your puzzles, even though you spend all day derailing everyones threads anyhow[/9]

[10]Close your reply by telling everyone to think very hard about what you've just said[/10]

[11]One last little remark that will piss everyone off and surely get you a quote, followed by orglaugh for maximum effect[/11][12]:1orglaugh[/12]

and how many of those exact type of statements were made by mpaa companies about the vcr before they got their heads out of their asses and put their shit on the medium for sale.

Just because your not smart enough to see the solution doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Why is gideongallery still posting on GFY?

Thank God I have that moron on "ignore" He's not even in the adult industry.

free speech

the foundation of your industry.

Its not the ability to copy that we need to fear at all. This is irrelevant. What needs to be stopped, and what can be stopped, is easy access and high traffic to these easy access sites.

Comparing the failed war on drugs to the war on piracy is flawed. Drug users are addicted to the "goods". Parasites are not addicted to free movies. They are lazy and stupid and most of them will quit once pirated stuff becomes a pain in the ass to get.

Making life hard to pirates will make a difference. It's like turning off facebook. It's not the end of social networking but there will never be another Facebook again. User experience in 2.0 is dictated by the # of other users and their content. A new pirate site means NOTHING without user uploads and visits.

Was there not an add-on added to SOPA that limits it use to non-adult companies & copyright.. That would then result in little to nothing happening to help adult deal with copyright issues in or out of the USA...

Please correct me if I'm wrong and drop a link where newer info can be found.

What I'm talking about to is a few weeks old and I have not had time in the last month to keep up with SOPA:



If this is still the road the SOAP is going down then I just simply can't support it in anyway. And lets not forget there are many sites hosted in USA owned by people in the USA where DMCAing them still does little to slow them down.