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kane	12-03-2011 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sly (Post 18604951)

Do you have brothers and sisters?

I am a 180 compared to my brothers. Raised pretty much the same, I probably had a more difficult life.

Kids aren't as controllable as non-parents like to think they are. Sure, you definitely can influence them, but many simply live in a world of their own and you can't do much with them until they figure it out themselves. After all, we all are different people.

I have two brothers that are very smart and very capable of doing great things. Neither of them have any desire to apply their skills and prefer to drift through life.

This is very true. I see it in my brother's kids. His daughter who just turned 16 gets straight A's, plays several sports and is a great kid. She is almost freakishly good. I was joking around with her one day and told her that she seemed like she was too good to be true. She explained to me that she saw her older brother always in trouble and always grounded and always angry and it seemed like it was over stupid stuff. So she decided to do the opposite. She likes school and wants to do things with her life so she studies hard. She is brutally honest with her parents about where she is going, what she is doing and who she is with and she does the chores and stuff they ask of her. In return she has a ton of freedom an a great life.

If I didn't know them and you told me she and her brother were raised by the same parents I would never believe it.

kane	12-03-2011 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sly (Post 18605050)

I don't think it's going to work either. The contract will not matter because the wife will cave and everything will be the same. This situation is different than the one of MrPheer. This kid already knows he can get away with murder. He will leave before being shackled.

My theory is that he will sign it and things will be fine for a very short period of time. Then they will collapse and he will leave and go stay with a friend or another family member for a short period of time to "prove" that they will miss him.

If his mom let's him go that might work out for him, but I have a feeling she will let him back into the house during the day when my brother is at work and thing whole thing is going to crash and burn.

kane	12-03-2011 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by you-big-dummy (Post 18604967)

Common man, wait till their asses go to work, he'll have his boys bust that house up first chance he gets. Worse, if something tragic happens to his son, dude wont forgive himself.
Christmas around the corner! ` Fucked up scene!

In an interesting turn of events the boy had a girlfriend who has her own place. He moved in with her. She was leaving for two weeks to go with other family to visit family out of state and told him he couldn't stay at her place by himself (that is a long story of its own). So he comes back to my brother's place. 48 hours later my brother's company truck is broken into and about $1500 worth of tools are stolen. The company he works for paid for them all and has insurance that will replace them, but my brother called the police who dusted for finger prints. I won't be at all shocked if the boy or one of his punk friends was behind this.

theking

12-03-2011 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kane (Post 18605064)

If push comes to shove...the cops cannot help to evict the boy. Your brother will have to go through a legal tenant/process and court to get him evicted...then if the boy still refuses to leave the cops can remove him.

johnnyloadproductions

12-03-2011 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Pheer (Post 18605009)

You have to lay down clear rules and consequences.

I let my GF's 19yr son move in "temporarily" to help him get his life in order. First rule was, no drugs (yes I consider weed to be a drug) for two reasons:
1. You cant put your life back together doing that shit.
2. If you have money to buy it, then you have money to be on your own, so get out if you want to do it.

Made it his job to go get a job. Took a few weeks but he got hired at a local hotel and 4 months later was promoted to front desk manager.

I've set down very clear rules on how my household works. Consequences for being disrespectful, not helping around the house, etc etc. That part was easy because I just had to remind him that he is here as a guest, I'm doing him a favor, I make the rules, and at any time he decides he doesnt want to follow the rules he can pack his stuff and walk out the door.

It took a little adjustment period (on both sides) but he is doing much better. I'm going to start charging him rent after the first of the year (I gave him 45 days notice about this) and I plan on just putting the money aside and giving it back to him as soon as he can get his own apartment.

So yeah its much easier to kick the kid out but you'll most likely never have a relationship with the kid again, or you can be tough and try to maintain your patience, set firm rules and do not bend. Your brother may have to kick his kid out for a few days to help him gain a little perspective on life, living under a few rules and doing better for yourself is better than being homeless.

Excellent and very fair perspective.

I moved out permanently just after turning 21. It was the only time I could afford to comfortable after getting a job that payed well. You have to have rules and structure if you are to be any kind of success.

porno jew

12-03-2011 04:53 PM

sorry sounds like a dysfunctional disaster of a household. rational solutions wont work. they don't seen reasonable. there is deeper issues going on. unfortunately it's just going to follow it's own tragic trajectory unless they snap out of it.

L-Pink

12-03-2011 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by porno jew (Post 18605100)

Agreed, the guy needs to run away with his secretary or the daughter of a neighbor. :2 cents:

.

kane	12-03-2011 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by porno jew (Post 18605100)

Sadly, I have to agree with you. I have this feeling that there is no good end to this and eventually it just ends with my brother getting divorced and people going their own way.

johnnyloadproductions

12-03-2011 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by L-Pink (Post 18605106)

Agreed, the guy needs to run away with his secretary or the daughter of a neighbor. :2 cents:

.

:thumbsup

Rochard

12-03-2011 05:35 PM

I left home when I was barely sixteen. My father died when I was nine months old, I collected social security, and once I figured out that it was my money I had the checks sent directly to me. It wasn't much, only like $600 a month, but when your sixteen that's a lot of money.

I never looked back.

I made huge mistakes, but I landed in the Marines that they unfucked me.

AmeliaG

12-03-2011 06:29 PM

edit edit

Nembrionic

12-03-2011 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kane (Post 18605045)

My brother doesn't think it will work. He thinks it will be just like every other time they have given him any kind of ultimatum. For a few days, maybe even a few weeks, things will be great. Then he will fall back to his old ways and his mom will jump in to make excuses for why he did this and why he shouldn't be in trouble for it.

He wanted to kick him out today, but his wife convinced him to try the contract.

Perhaps his mom should kick his frekkin' ass something good then.

If everytime he fucks up he's being saved by his mother, no wonder he keeps doing it.

kane	12-03-2011 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nembrionic (Post 18605311)

Perhaps his mom should kick his frekkin' ass something good then.

If everytime he fucks up he's being saved by his mother, no wonder he keeps doing it.

Yep, I think if his mom had disciplined him some when he was younger and stuck with it, this situation wouldn't be happening.

Jakez

12-03-2011 08:06 PM

If he thinks a weed problem is bad tell him to just wait until the prescription pill abuse and stealing start, and getting busted for both and his wife and/or him spending a large chunk of their hard earned money paying fines, court fees, probation visits, etc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sly (Post 18604951)

Ditto.

lagcam

12-03-2011 08:24 PM

You can't just kick the kid out and leave him to starve or get into more trouble.

If the relationship between son and father (or step father) can't be saved, then the right thing to do is sit down with the boy and say "This house isn't big enough for both of us and as you won't live by my rules, you have to go. Here is some money for a room and to cover you for one month. After that you are on your own. You can come here to eat sometimes, but you come as a guest and you don't live here. You want to be a man, be a man."

shade001

12-03-2011 10:12 PM

Um, question. If the kid's mom has been going behind your brother's back all these years what makes your brother think she won't just wait until he leaves the house and welcome the SOB back with open arms?

V_RocKs

12-03-2011 10:57 PM

If this is the mother... why is he still around?

I had similar issues with my GF's kids... Only the issue was with her ex.... So I put it on the kids... And we just kicked her younger one to the curb...

I was kicked to the curb myself.. Best thing that ever happened for me... I thought I was cool for a few months... Then it really sunk in that I needed to quit being a shithead... Still took me years to "grow up" enough to be responsible for my own actions...

But if it were my GF's fault I wouldn't stick around. I'd be a shithead too... What would happen with our own kids had we decided to have some?

V_RocKs

12-03-2011 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard (Post 18605159)

I made huge mistakes, but I landed in the Marines that they unfucked me.

This is why whenever someone has something bad to say about you, I tell them to say it to your face... They just shut the fuck up after that.

Jakez

12-03-2011 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by V_RocKs (Post 18605538)

I thought I was cool for a few months... Then it really sunk in that I needed to quit being a shithead... Still took me years to "grow up" enough to be responsible for my own actions...

So how could you speed up that process? What was it that really made you grow up?

kane	12-03-2011 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shade001 (Post 18605484)

Well, in theory he is hoping that she is finally at her wits end with him. This is the first time in his life that she has actually tried to punish him or ever said anything negative about him so maybe she is just fed up. In the past he used to mostly treat her decently because she always bailed him out of trouble, but recently he has just become dick to her too and she is tired of it.

kane	12-04-2011 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by V_RocKs (Post 18605538)

I'm not so sure she will be for much longer. There are two major things standing in the way. First, when the boy is not around their family life is great. Both parents get along and both the daughters do fine. The boy is the rotten apple in the bunch. My brother is hoping if he is out of the picture and not living with them then it will make things better. Second, if they get divorced my brother will get fucked bad because he has nice pension from his job that she will get half of. She never works so he will have to pay spousal support and it would just be an ugly mess. They have gone through a lot together that you could write a book about and about 90% of is centered around the boy being an asshat.

V_RocKs

12-04-2011 01:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jakez (Post 18605554)

So how could you speed up that process? What was it that really made you grow up?

Having to help myself ultimately... Running out of options... Then seeing somebody else do twice as much as me with half the resources and ask myself why I am fighting the establishment? The hard part about it all is that you want your kids to be freedom fighters... The kind of people that overthrow tyranny... But how do you inform them about when they are the fringe? When they are the ones without a clue of what is best? You can't. All you can do is set an example and hope they figure it all out some day.

V_RocKs

12-04-2011 01:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kane (Post 18605580)

I think what they will find out is if the mother had stopped babying the boy he would have had a chance. She will always second guess what she could have done better. Their relationship will never be what he always wanted... but then most aren't. However, it won't be anywhere near what he thinks is acceptable either. And again, however, he is not much different than the mom. She babies the son. He babies the mother.

They should seriously go to some kind of therapy or he is going to find out that removing the son from the equation isn't going give their lives the right answer. It will always be off by one.

kane	12-04-2011 02:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by V_RocKs (Post 18605656)

Part of the problem with the son's mom is that she is basically treating him like she and her brother were treated by thier mom. She laughs about how much trouble she got in when she was in school and how her mom was down there screaming at the teachers and principle for "getting her in trouble." When she was older and moved out on her own she got a job, but would blow her money and mom would pay her bills and bail her out. Her brother was so bad the school finally told them that they could choose to pull him out and send him to another school so it didn't look too bad, or they were going to expel him. So now she shrugs it off and says she turned out fine so her son will to. And her son is following right in her footsteps. He got expelled from high school, has no job, relies on everyone to care for him etc. The only reason the two daughters likely aren't that way is because my brother has been there since day one with them and has had more influence over them.

kane	12-04-2011 02:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by V_RocKs (Post 18605656)

Oh, and as for therapy. They tried that a few times and here is basically how it turns out. The family gets together and talks about how the boy is pissing them all off. The boy either refuses to talk or doesn't think he is doing anything wrong so they just gave up. Obviously they would need to commit to it to make it work and it looks like none of them are willing to do that.

EukerVoorn

12-04-2011 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kane (Post 18604919)

Well, in a way you are 100% correct, but about 99% of the blame falls on the kid's mom and grandma. To make a long story short when my brother met his wife she already had the boy from a previous relationship. He was about 4 when they got together. His biological dad has been in and out of his life and is unreliable at best. He was the first grandson in the family and his mom and grandma basically treated him like he was a deity. They all but threw rose petals at his feet when he would walk.

No matter what my brother would do as punishment, she would go behind his back and undo it. Of course, my brother didn't know this until recently. A few cases in point. The boy, when he was about 10, stole money out of his mom's purse to buy a video game. He got grounded to his room, no TV no nothing for two weeks. When my brother wasn't home his mom let him come out of his room, watch TV, play games whatever. Another time he decided that he didn't like school (he was in 6th grade) so she didn't make him go. After two weeks of not going the school called the emergency contact number (my brother's work number) to find out if he was okay. He went home and asked why the boy was not in school. She lied to his face and said he was. When he told her that school seems to think otherwise she finally confessed. That incident nearly led to their divorce. In 8th grade the kid failed 14 out of 16 classes. The school told them he needed to be held back, but she refused. As it turns out, she was doing all his homework. To this day - and it makes me sad as hell the say this - he is 18 years old and essentially illiterate.

This has caused massive strain on the family. They had two other kids together and both of them are very good kids in part because their mom actually does discipline them along with my brother. For some reason she can't say no to the boy and now after all these years it is coming back to haunt her. He has been in trouble with the law multiple times, blew off all his probation stuff, gets in more trouble and no matter what he does she makes excuses for him and seems to make like it is okay for him to be this way.

Thanks for explaining and confirming that the kid hasn't been raised properly. Someone asked me if I have brothers, the answer is yes, and the youngest one was raised and protected by our mother just like you explained and he became a real asshole... lazy, not working, stealing, un unreliable piece of shit. I don't think he was born that way, but that the way my mother raised, spoiled and protected him, fucked him up completely.

kane	12-04-2011 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EukerVoorn (Post 18607103)

yep, sadly it kind of runs in my brother's wife's family. Her mom never punished her and it was bad enough that when she got in trouble at school her mom would go down and yell at the teachers and principle for "getting her daughter into trouble." When she became an adult and was living on her own she had a job and would often blow through her check and not be able to pay the bills so her mom and dad would step in and pay them. Her brother has a daughter who is the same way. She isn't so much a shithead, but she is 23, has never had a job, just got her diver's license and does nothing but sit around all day watching TV or being on the computer. It is just sad.

My brother and I were raised to work for what we wanted and be respectful of others so it is a clash of ideals for sure.

Jakez

12-04-2011 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EukerVoorn (Post 18607103)

And as kids you thought he was going to be the most successful?

V_RocKs

12-05-2011 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kane (Post 18605666)

Then they are going to the wrong therapist. And I wasn't talking about taking the boy. I was talking about going to somebody that can get it into the parents heads that if they are going to write him off, this is how you have to do it and deal with it internally and with each other.

kane	12-05-2011 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by V_RocKs (Post 18609251)

I would agree fully. It needs to start with his mom. She needs to see that the way she was raised didn't make her turn out "okay." She can't say no to anyone no matter the consequences, she is co-dependent and had other issues, but she doesn't see them.

If they could get into therapy and help her see what she is doing and how changing herself could make things so much better that would be a huge step forward.

baddog

12-05-2011 10:07 PM

I raised great kids. No need to kick them out.

Supz	12-05-2011 10:11 PM

I have only used this as a term for jerking off. "Kick the kids out of the house"

porno jew

12-05-2011 10:13 PM

the family should get together with a sheet of acid and get to the core of what the real deal is.

EukerVoorn

12-06-2011 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kane (Post 18609402)

I would agree fully. It needs to start with his mom. She needs to see that the way she was raised didn't make her turn out "okay."

Mothers like that will never see and understand what they are doing wrong, when you try to talk about it with them they always feel you're attacking them so they will get defensive. People like this don't have any rationality inside them and I honestly believe that people like this shouldn't be allowed to breed. They shouldn't even be allowed to have dogs.

EukerVoorn

12-06-2011 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jakez (Post 18607116)

And as kids you thought he was going to be the most successful?

No, he was always considered the "cute little funny one". At first he was really cute and funny, I have great memories about our early childhood. But then our mother divorced our stepfather to marry with the next stepfather who was this successful businessman making good money and that's where the shit started... my mother suddenly had enough money to spoil the youngest kid. She bought him anything he wished for, and he never had to help in the household. The worst thing he did was taking our mother's car after she died, sell it, keep the money and not pay his share of the expenses of my mother's funeral. In fact he made money of my mother's death by acting that way.

The older ones including me grew up in poverty and we were sent out to work so that we could help paying for food and we weren't allowed to leave the kitchen after dinner before we had done the dishes, all things like that. It wasn't a very hard childhood, it was disciplined and I think that was good.

Every time I meet a new person and that person is very egocentric, self-endulged, oversensitive, bad mannered and lazy, I think the person is an only child and was spoiled as a kid. Then I start to ask him questions to get my confirmation and often my assumtions turn out to be correct :1orglaugh

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