Worst German bond auction since the Weimar Republic.

[u-Bob]

Things are starting to get interesting....

[Barry-xlovecam]

Bright side is oil prices are down -- that in itself is an economic stimulus.

Some of the debt is related to energy costs in some way.

The Debt Domino Theory -- scary to consider thats effects ...

[MaDalton]

well, at 1.98% interest the investors rather torture other countries who need the money more urgently and are willing to pay more.

Like France - 3.6% or Belgium - 5.14%

[12clicks]

the people of germany have to be livid over this whole EU thing. The Euro will be germany's undoing. The idiot socialists of Europe will drag down the strong german economy with them when they fail.

[u-Bob]

Drove past a bank earlier today. +- 25 people waiting at the atms.

[u-Bob]

Originally Posted by 12clicks

the people of germany have to be livid over this whole EU thing. The Euro will be germany's undoing. The idiot socialists of Europe will drag down the strong german economy with them when they fail.

That's actually not far from the truth. Former French president, Francois Mitterrand admits in his memoirs that he pushed for the creation of the euro (France would otherwise not withdraw its troops from Germany after the unification unless Germany became part of the new eurozone) because that way the French socialists could keep their inflationary policies going.

Until then Germany (having witnessed the effects of hyperinflation firsthand) had (almost) always maintained a very strict monetary policy. This seriously pissed of the French because it limited their abilities to print new money out of thin air. If they inflated too much and the Germans kept their monetary base (relatively) fixed, the difference in interest rates would expose the extent to which the French had been devaluing their own currency.

[Caligari]

Originally Posted by 12clicks

the people of germany have to be livid over this whole EU thing. The Euro will be germany's undoing. The idiot socialists of Europe will drag down the strong german economy with them when they fail.

And who forced Germany to join the EU bright boy?

The EU has been a corporate engineered scam from the get go, all you have to do is follow the criminals i.e. Goldman Sachs in Greece.

It was never a matter of "if" the EU would implode, only a matter of "when."


.

[sperbonzo]

Originally Posted by u-Bob

Things are starting to get interesting....

Interesting is a good word for it....



.


.

[12clicks]

Originally Posted by u-Bob

That's actually not far from the truth. Former French president, Francois Mitterrand admits in his memoirs that he pushed for the creation of the euro (France would otherwise not withdraw its troops from Germany after the unification unless Germany became part of the new eurozone) because that way the French socialists could keep their inflationary policies going.

Until then Germany (having witnessed the effects of hyperinflation firsthand) had (almost) always maintained a very strict monetary policy. This seriously pissed of the French because it limited their abilities to print new money out of thin air. If they inflated too much and the Germans kept their monetary base (relatively) fixed, the difference in interest rates would expose the extent to which the French had been devaluing their own currency.

its what happens when politicians promise unrealistic benefits like free healthcare, early retirement and a 4 day work week.
eventually, the house of cards collapses.
And then you have children talking about corporations being the problem.

[stag44]

Originally Posted by Jesus H Christ

I was also reading that this morning and found it very odd. Markets are already down as I also wrote this last night. Anyway, we're getting close to some real shit going down and waiting for France to lose their AAA, as all hell will break lose after that.

French should have lost their AAA years ago......... Unfortunately, the ratings agency haven't been digging quite deep enuff.... They are not is as bad a situation as Italy or Spain but they are not far behind...

I just hope it happens on Sarko's watch

[u-Bob]

Originally Posted by stag44

They are not is as bad a situation as Italy or Spain but they are not far behind...

True. Most Greek and Italian paper is being held by... French banks. The Greek bailouts were actually a French bank bailout.

[MaDalton]

this thread is too depressing to follow

[sperbonzo]

Originally Posted by u-Bob

True. Most Greek and Italian paper is being held by... French banks. The Greek bailouts were actually a French bank bailout.

You DO pay attention, don't you? I thought I was the only one on this board that followed banking that closely.... and then only because it's my living...




.

[Waldi]

Originally Posted by MaDalton

this thread is too depressing to follow

i agree, they want all our money, go fuck yourself

[12clicks]

Originally Posted by sperbonzo

You DO pay attention, don't you? I thought I was the only one on this board that followed banking that closely.... and then only because it's my living...




.

thats why Germany is under threat. France is cooked, they just aren't admitting it yet.
pretty soon germany will be trying to save the entire EU on its own.


bad spot to be in.

[Phoenix]

so the world bank will have to step in and bail whole countries out.
they use USD i believe

once everyone has to take the loans, the usd will get stronger again

[Sly]

Originally Posted by Phoenix

so the world bank will have to step in and bail whole countries out.
they use USD i believe

once everyone has to take the loans, the usd will get stronger again

All part of the master plan.

[OneWhoKnows]

Originally Posted by 12clicks

its what happens when politicians promise unrealistic benefits like free healthcare, early retirement and a 4 day work week.
eventually, the house of cards collapses.

Dude, sorry - but only someone from the US can make a statement like that. Free healthcare is common for more than 60 years (or even longer in a couple of countries) in most "first generation" EU countries and it always used to work. The problem is that we're getting older and older and the few young and fully employed ppl are the ones having to pay for all the others. That plus the middle class is slowly dying and one day, we'll only have rich and poor left, like in Russia for example. So the benefit of free healthcare is not unrealistic at all, it's just our politicians have been asleep during the last few decades and now they start waking up but dunno what to do.

Oh, and we don't have a 4-day work week, at least I don't know any EU country that has it.

[OneWhoKnows]

Originally Posted by 12clicks

thats why Germany is under threat. France is cooked, they just aren't admitting it yet.
pretty soon germany will be trying to save the entire EU on its own.


bad spot to be in.

Have to agree with you on that one

[Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Sly

All part of the master plan.

economic hitmen

damn i need to put on some metallica

[JFK]

Originally Posted by MaDalton

this thread is too depressing to follow

specially living where you are

[MaDalton]

Originally Posted by JFK

specially living where you are

yeah - cheap food, drinks, healthcare, rent and beautiful women plus party every weekend - damn this place, i'm gonna shoot myself

my co-pay on my last doctor visit was $1.50 and my monthly dose of my blood pressure medication costs me $10.70 - damn these socialists!!!!

PS: with all this complaining people forget that without the EU, most European countries wouldnt be as rich as they are. It's local politians and governments who fucked up each country individually for the sake of getting re-elected, not a general fault of the EU. the idea is right, the execution lacks professionals...

[redwhiteandblue]

Originally Posted by MaDalton

PS: with all this complaining people forget that without the EU, most European countries wouldnt be as rich as they are.

If you mean "rich" as in "up to their ears in debt" then yeah, maybe.

[Caligari]

Originally Posted by Jesus H Christ

GS was a small player in the global problem. The true culprit is the Federal Reserve as they fought all the way trying NOT to get the audit published. The markets are shaky because the first audit in 100 years was published on Monday. The irony is most Americans haven't a clue how bad we're being played or the fact, Ron Paul is a true American hero.

I don't care how the press spins that - those numbers are scary as fuck and proves we are all in deep shit.

Yes, they were just one of many enabled by the fed and looking at that audit it is scary as fuck.

16 trillion dollars...

$16,000,000,000,000.00 had been secretly given out to US banks and corporations and foreign banks everywhere from France to Scotland. From the period between December 2007 and June 2010, the Federal Reserve had secretly bailed out many of the world?s banks, corporations, and governments.

This was a plan not only destined to fail, but I believe engineered to fail.

The EU was a sucker punch whose impact is being felt right now, and how people view the federal reserve as anything but completely criminal is beyond belief.

This system, which is out of control, is eating itself, and before it's finished gnawing on it's last leg it's making damn sure to dole out those austerity parting gifts for the unwilling players.


.

[faxxaff]

Germany is just doing what the USA has been doing for 2 years, it's called quatitative easing to drive long term interest rates down. The current crisis is way bigger than 2008, but people are prepared for it, that's why the DOW is where it is and not below 6000 where it should be.

[MaDalton]

Originally Posted by redwhiteandblue

If you mean "rich" as in "up to their ears in debt" then yeah, maybe.

first of all: have you anything to complain about your personal standard of living or would you prefer to move to south sudan or something similar?

second: you are confusing governments and businesses - most of the latter are fine, thanks to a huge open market called the EU

you folks are complaining about things that have no influence on your personal life. at least i don't notice any.

[cykoe6]

Originally Posted by faxxaff

Germany is just doing what the USA has been doing for 2 years, it's called quatitative easing to drive long term interest rates down.

Actually Germany is refusing to allow the ECB to do a quantitative easing which is why the crisis continues. If Germany allows the ECB to buy up all the junk sovereign debt (as the rest of the EU is demanding) then Germany will be on the hook for the whole mess (resulting in a huge transfer of German wealth to the weaker members of the Eurozone) ....... if they refuse to do so (as they have so far) then the whole Eurozone will collapse. It is not just French banks that own a lot of worthless sovereign paper...... German banks do as well. Additionally the collapse of the Euro will significantly impact Germany's export based economy as the new Deutschmark appreciates significantly against the other new currencies.


Basically the are damned if they do and damned of they don't...... which is why they keep muddling along and hoping for the best.

[faxxaff]

Originally Posted by Jesus H Christ

if this were to happen, why would the new Deutschmark appreciate significantly? Good post BTW..

Of course it will get much stronger. A) to reflect strenght of it's industry and B) because less money will flow out of Germany. Without Germany, Euro would be close to parity with US$ at this time.

[Caligari]

Originally Posted by Jesus H Christ

That's just a partial list. Do you see Fanny, Freddie, GM, etc. totals? I'd bet it's more like $25 trillion.

This is where I get totally confused. If any of us are late on our mortgage/cc payments, go run your credit and find out what happens? How can these bank/Co's have a credit rating at all? Also, why isn't the media all over this? Fox News will reports the OWS hippies as idiots or whatever, but won't report on something major like this?

How could anyone have any confidence in any market right now?

You mentioned Fox News, and I am sure you are aware that it is owned by News Corp which also owns Dow Jones which of course publishes the Wall Street Journal...

So we can see just how "fair and balanced" Fox News really is

I would consider them the global mouthpiece for the current global economic swindle, but the truth is that you have MSNBC which is owned by General Electric which still has 49% stake in NBC.

Disney owns ABC etc....

Which one is more sinister? I don't know, they are all pretty suspect, but Fox News has got to take the cake.

In any case, with the media controlled like this it's not surprising we aren't seeing the true extent of the fraud being perpetrated world wide.

.

[faxxaff]

Originally Posted by Jesus H Christ

my point was/is, if you just had a major failed currency, how could anyone trust your new currency, regardless?

currencies trade on market demand and supply ..... that's why DM would go up and Greek Drachmen would go down.

[Caligari]

There is something else about Disney/ABC though.
Recently ABC has taken over Yahoo News or "combined forces" with Yahoo news, so during this entire OWS scenario they have released a number of "stories" which are presented in the "News" section on the right side of the yahoo page, and sometimes on the front page as "headline news."

Here are some examples-
http://news.yahoo.com/why-nazis-comm...191900304.html
http://news.yahoo.com/sexual-assault...200100603.html

Once again, these are linked as "news" stories but when you look at the stories at the beginning they are labelled as "Commentary."

Just an indicator to show where ABC/Yahoo is really at, and to show just how much they love to talk about those "OWS hippy commies" and gloss over the very stories (massive corporate bailouts) that many in OWS are screaming about.


.

[cykoe6]

Originally Posted by Jesus H Christ

if this were to happen, why would the new Deutschmark appreciate significantly? Good post BTW..

If the Euro breaks up the new German Deutschmark would rise significantly against the new Italian Lira, Greek Drachma, French Franc, etc. to reflect the fact that the German economy is much stronger. Currently the Euro keeps the weaker economies locked into a stronger currency (the Euro) which is primarily based on German strength. This is why they cannot devalue themselves into economic growth and solvency (by printing more money) as is usually done during an extreme recession (See the US quantitative easing program).


Because they are unable to devalue within the Euro structure the weaker EU states want to to have the ECB buy massive amounts of Eurozone sovereign debt (thereby allowing them to remain solvent until growth returns). Germany is opposed to it because they fear inflation and because they would be the de facto guarantor of all the debts purchased by the ECB (severely harming Germany's credit worthiness). If the Euro breaks up however, Germany will lose the current artificially large export advantage they enjoy in the currency union (they will lose the advantage because of the appreciation of the new Deutschmark)....... hence the two sided problem.


Germany (with the cooperation of the ECB) has been using a mercantilist strategy similar to China (with its artificial Yuan peg to the Dollar) to keep their exports high....... but of course this causes massive disruptions in the import countries like high indebtedness and current account imbalances (as can be seen in the US and the weaker EU nations). This is why currency unions and pegs always fail eventually. They are an artificial construct which create huge economic imbalances that always need to be remedied at some point.

[Adraco]

Originally Posted by sperbonzo

You DO pay attention, don't you? I thought I was the only one on this board that followed banking that closely.... and then only because it's my living...

.

I would beg to be included in that group too, also because of my "normal job". I read 8 newspapers a day and follow this almost to the hour (I do have to sleep sometimes) and have attended a few of the big meetings.

[Caligari]

Originally Posted by Adraco

I would beg to be included in that group too, also because of my "normal job". I read 8 newspapers a day and follow this almost to the hour (I do have to sleep sometimes) and have attended a few of the big meetings.

What is your take on the situation right now?


.

[Sunny Day]

[QUOTE=MaDalton;18581389]yeah - cheap food, drinks, healthcare, rent and beautiful women plus party every weekend - damn this place, i'm gonna shoot myself

GF is Bi-Polar. needs over $1000 a month in meds. More than she earns, if they drug companies didn't give her free meds, she would be totally insane. The Canadian & UK health systems are crap, but at least you someday get to a doc. US system sucks if you have no insurance or money.

[Supz]

Originally Posted by 12clicks

the people of germany have to be livid over this whole EU thing. The Euro will be germany's undoing. The idiot socialists of Europe will drag down the strong german economy with them when they fail.

Yea, Since Germany's economy is thriving and everyone else's is in the shitter, and they share a currency. I can't see this being far from the truth if something devastating happens over there. Maybe China wants to bail them out next.

[Barry-xlovecam]

Originally Posted by Phoenix

so the world bank will have to step in and bail whole countries out.
they use USD i believe

once everyone has to take the loans, the usd will get stronger again

Then comes the deflation with the USD Appreciation;

USD is worth more and USA Assets are worth less dollars -- sounds too good -- it is.

[DaddyHalbucks]

It's time to go buy a cup of coffee.

[stag44]

Originally Posted by Supz

Yea, Since Germany's economy is thriving and everyone else's is in the shitter, and they share a currency. I can't see this being far from the truth if something devastating happens over there. Maybe China wants to bail them out next.

Well the EU asked China for a bail out. China told the EU to fuck off.... And, quite right too!!

UK is trying to tell them to fuck off - EU was told Euro would fail, not only by us, but theres a big problem with our politicians having the balls to do so.... Hopefully the EU threat to devastate the UK economy with this transaction tax to part pay for this Euro fiasco will change things...

Watch out for major riots in the next few years in a lot of EU countris!

[Paul Markham]

IMO

The citizens of the Western Countries have been living on borrowed money for far too long, to maintain a life style they did not earn. The train is heading for a brick wall, the crash of 2008 was a rehearsal.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by MaDalton

yeah - cheap food, drinks, healthcare, rent and beautiful women plus party every weekend - damn this place, i'm gonna shoot myself

my co-pay on my last doctor visit was $1.50 and my monthly dose of my blood pressure medication costs me $10.70 - damn these socialists!!!!

Off soon for a 3 monthly check up at the oncology clinic. I'll have to put the 30 krown on me CC as I'm broke.

drugs are free to us invalids.

PS: with all this complaining people forget that without the EU, most European countries wouldnt be as rich as they are. It's local politians and governments who fucked up each country individually for the sake of getting re-elected, not a general fault of the EU. the idea is right, the execution lacks professionals...

The original concept of a Common Market was great. Then the bureaucrats took over and it became a nightmare. And now truly fucked with their dream of a USE. United State of Europe.