How to complain about a CCBILL program after unfair suspension?

[LouiseLloyd]

How do you complain about the unfair account suspension by a ccbill sponsor?

The sponsor is claiming I have violated the terms of promotion by using a related domain name and using my own tube site for promotion despite emailing the program owner regularly and have received confirmation of using both the domain name and trailer videos for promotion?


I do not want to give the program name at this point as I am still waiting for a reply to the email I have sent to program owner.


Any help would be good.

[spunky99]

what do their terms of service say?

[LouiseLloyd]

This will make you LOL

Not Found

The requested URL /v3/terms.php was not found on this server.

[bean-aid]

Do what you did. Bring it to gfy, there is no other avenue that is effective

[Jakez]

Originally Posted by beaner

Do what you did. Bring it to gfy, there is no other avenue that is effective

[LouiseLloyd]

Originally Posted by beaner

Do what you did. Bring it to gfy, there is no other avenue that is effective

That's my thinking, will wait for some clarification from program owner and CCBill once their offices open.

Seems it's to do with the domain name though despite gaining written (email) approval and promoting the site for a few years now.

Looks like some other affiliates have been banned too.

All this bearing in mind that the program has no available terms online now and never has from my recollection!

[LouiseLloyd]

Well turns out it's to do with the domain name.

I own roxy-raye.com and have been promoting roxyraye.com via ExtremeBank for the last year or two sending $xxx in sales each month, turns out they have recently updated their acceptable promo methods which are displayed via the sites FAQ's and not the Terms page.

So what is an affiliate to do when for a year or two it's okay to use a domain to promote a sponsor then all of a sudden it's not despite not been a register trademark nor receiving any prior warning?

When are affiliates going to stop getting fucked over by sponsors when they all of a sudden think they are too big?

CCBill need to update their own terms to prevent sponsors fucking over affiliates like this and all of the other shady ways they do.

Meh!

[femdomdestiny]

Links pulled

[BIGTYMER]

Now that's Extreme!

[Jel]

Originally Posted by LouiseLloyd

Well turns out it's to do with the domain name.

I own roxy-raye.com and have been promoting roxyraye.com via ExtremeBank for the last year or two sending $xxx in sales each month, turns out they have recently updated their acceptable promo methods which are displayed via the sites FAQ's and not the Terms page.

So what is an affiliate to do when for a year or two it's okay to use a domain to promote a sponsor then all of a sudden it's not despite not been a register trademark nor receiving any prior warning?

When are affiliates going to stop getting fucked over by sponsors when they all of a sudden think they are too big?

CCBill need to update their own terms to prevent sponsors fucking over affiliates like this and all of the other shady ways they do.

Meh!

Send your traffic elsewhere, simples.

[Qbert]

Send the traffic to other programs with Roxy Raye content. She's done shoots for a number of others.

[LouiseLloyd]

Originally Posted by Qbert

Send the traffic to other programs with Roxy Raye content. She's done shoots for a number of others.

Good advice and will probably be the only option should there be no compromise.

[TheDA]

Originally Posted by LouiseLloyd

Well turns out it's to do with the domain name.

I own roxy-raye.com and have been promoting roxyraye.com via ExtremeBank for the last year or two sending $xxx in sales each month, turns out they have recently updated their acceptable promo methods which are displayed via the sites FAQ's and not the Terms page.

So what is an affiliate to do when for a year or two it's okay to use a domain to promote a sponsor then all of a sudden it's not despite not been a register trademark nor receiving any prior warning?

When are affiliates going to stop getting fucked over by sponsors when they all of a sudden think they are too big?

CCBill need to update their own terms to prevent sponsors fucking over affiliates like this and all of the other shady ways they do.

Meh!

Fuck them. If that is the way they want to play, drop them, point the domain at some of her other sites with content on and concentrate on other stuff.

Frustrating I know but what else are you realistically going to do?

[Adraco]

Yeah, if they don't want to talk about it, leave them alone, keep the domain and send elsewhere.

A program owner must at his own discretion be able to allow or disallow any type of promotion. If he's not happy with a certain type of promotion, it must be reasonable to update the terms and say that from day this and that, we will no longer approve of method 1 2 or 3. A fari warning would be nice, like a month or two ahead of it going into effect, or maybe two major days of the year for updating terms, New Years and half years, June 30th / July 1st, that would be very fair and also make it easy to keep track of when new stuff come into effect.

[CamTraffic]

you better off not sending them traffic
Especially if they don't have an TOS posted

[SmutHammer]

If you need a new project, take a look at www.lilcandy.com I'll get you anything you need to get it going, and don't mind her name being used in the domain.

[raymor]

If they demand that you turn over the domain citing trademark, they are estopped from doing that based on the, fact that they have you written permission to use it.

[Lace]

Was just looking at them to promote a few sites of theirs but I'll go somewhere else.

Thanks for the heads up.

[DVTimes]

yes

just promote other sites

i promoted one site for years and some berk cancelled me.

i promote another site now and it gets sales.

so i win

[DVTimes]

these are the sites i would promote if i was you:

http://www.wouj.com/sites.htm

[TheDA]

Originally Posted by DVTimes

yes

just promote other sites

i promoted one site for years and some berk cancelled me.

i promote another site now and it gets sales.

so i win

What did you get cancelled for? Tell us the story.

[LouiseLloyd]

Hey thanks all, you know how it is when you get burned, happens far too often, wouldn't mind if I was some cookie stuffing, hacking, illegal tube site owning scammer, but from a legitimate affiliates perspective it really hurts when you get let down by a sponsor.

Will check out some of your recommended programs.

[LouiseLloyd]

Haha,

So the webmaster has got back to me and looks like he has purely used the domain issue as an excuse to ban me, his real problem is the fact that it is a tube site, legal tube site may I add, using content which I have received permission to use.

So could anybody point out the difference to me between a tgp/mpg site other than the style? I mean basically it's just a thumbnail and link linking to a post where the promo material is located?

WTF!?

[crash_jackson]

wtf?? change them...

[ExtremeBank_Adam]

Originally Posted by LouiseLloyd

Haha,

So the webmaster has got back to me and looks like he has purely used the domain issue as an excuse to ban me, his real problem is the fact that it is a tube site, legal tube site may I add, using content which I have received permission to use.

So could anybody point out the difference to me between a tgp/mpg site other than the style? I mean basically it's just a thumbnail and link linking to a post where the promo material is located?

WTF!?

I have asked this affiliate to send me a copy of the email that he says I sent, giving him permission to use our content on his site, roxy-raye.com. I don't have access to my email at the moment, because I'm shooting all day and out of the office.

We have never allowed anyone to use alternate domains, typos or hyphenated "typos" of our domains. Once I get some time, I'll reply to this thread in full, but this affiliate is only giving half of the story...

[LouiseLloyd]

Haha Adam,

Are you saying that you have only just noticed after 18months that I have sent all the sales via roxy-raye.com.

Also can I clarify you have no terms, you never have, the terms page returns an error which is why I asked you what promotional methods you do not allow to which you replied "only email" marketing.

Have a great day Adam :-)

[ExtremeBank_Adam]

Originally Posted by LouiseLloyd

Haha Adam,

Are you saying that you have only just noticed after 18months that I have sent all the sales via roxy-raye.com.

Also can I clarify you have no terms, you never have, the terms page returns an error which is why I asked you what promotional methods you do not allow to which you replied "only email" marketing.

Have a great day Adam :-)

I am saying that I have asked you three times now to forward me the email you claim to have.

My terms are not published as you would like them to be, yet they are on the site and have been for many years and are spelled out plainly (in part):
We don't allow typos or alternate domain name spellings to send traffic. For example, sites like naughtyalysha.net or naughty-alysha.com are not allowed.

Also, you have been sending traffic since November, 2010 (just checked), not 18 months like you claim. While this is insignificant, please don't exaggerate the facts in your favor. As soon as I was notified that you were sending hits via an unauthorized method, I contacted you. In addition, the email where you asked about promotional methods was only from a few weeks ago. You have been sending traffic (admittedly) for over a year now, but you only asked a few weeks ago? Also, I have only suspended your account from new transactions, not from rebills, and I notified you the moment I did it. I didn't try to scam you by not letting you know, etc.

I am back to shooting now, so please forward me that email at your earliest convenience.

[LouiseLloyd]

Here's the facts:


I signed up to the extreme bank affiliate scheme on 16th Oct 2010


At which time I checked the sites terms (which did not exists) and the FAQs which did not state anything about non promotion via domain misspellings.
http://web.archive.org/web/201011021...nk.com/faq.php
http://web.archive.org/web/201010190....com/terms.php


The site has never had any terms available at any point since joining the affiliate scheme.


How can an affiliate violate terms that do not exists?

[GonZo]

Originally Posted by LouiseLloyd

Here's the facts:


I signed up to the extreme bank affiliate scheme on 16th Oct 2010


At which time I checked the sites terms (which did not exists) and the FAQs which did not state anything about non promotion via domain misspellings.
http://web.archive.org/web/201011021...nk.com/faq.php
http://web.archive.org/web/201010190....com/terms.php


The site has never had any terms available at any point since joining the affiliate scheme.


How can an affiliate violate terms that do not exists?

He notified you directly via email and has even requested the email where he said he gave you permission. In the end its his content - his program - his terms.

I noticed also that Adam said you are still getting rebills but no new transactions after being notified. Sounds pretty fair as your not out anything going forward and what you do is up to you.

You can argue all you want and appeal to CCBill about it but in the end he owns the content and the program and can run it anyway he wants.

Id point the traffic at another program that the model has shot for and focus on making money.

[Tom_PM]

If your joins retain well, try to strike a deal for exclusive promotion on that domain or something maybe.

[stocktrader23]

Originally Posted by ExtremeBank_Adam

I am saying that I have asked you three times now to forward me the email you claim to have.

My terms are not published as you would like them to be, yet they are on the site and have been for many years and are spelled out plainly (in part):
We don't allow typos or alternate domain name spellings to send traffic. For example, sites like naughtyalysha.net or naughty-alysha.com are not allowed.

Also, you have been sending traffic since November, 2010 (just checked), not 18 months like you claim. While this is insignificant, please don't exaggerate the facts in your favor. As soon as I was notified that you were sending hits via an unauthorized method, I contacted you. In addition, the email where you asked about promotional methods was only from a few weeks ago. You have been sending traffic (admittedly) for over a year now, but you only asked a few weeks ago? Also, I have only suspended your account from new transactions, not from rebills, and I notified you the moment I did it. I didn't try to scam you by not letting you know, etc.

I am back to shooting now, so please forward me that email at your earliest convenience.

I don't know the chain of events or who's telling the truth or not. I just wanted to say that programs that ban alternate domains are being stupid. It says to me that the program owner has no idea what exactly affiliates are doing to drive traffic to your sites. You might lose a few sales that would have come to your main page anyhow but you also gain a lot of traffic that you would never have had without that affiliate. In this case its' even worse because he has other sponsors he can point this to and just replace your content and go on about his day so it will cost you whatever sales you were worried about anyhow in addition to all of the extra traffic.

It's a dumb policy. A dumb policy with good intentions but a dumb policy regardless.

Sigh.

[Jel]

Originally Posted by stocktrader23

I don't know the chain of events or who's telling the truth or not. I just wanted to say that programs that ban alternate domains are being stupid. It says to me that the program owner has no idea what exactly affiliates are doing to drive traffic to your sites. You might lose a few sales that would have come to your main page anyhow but you also gain a lot of traffic that you would never have had without that affiliate. In this case its' even worse because he has other sponsors he can point this to and just replace your content and go on about his day so it will cost you whatever sales you were worried about anyhow in addition to all of the extra traffic.

It's a dumb policy. A dumb policy with good intentions but a dumb policy regardless.

Sigh.

Amen.

8chars

[signupdamnit]

Originally Posted by LouiseLloyd

Here's the facts:


I signed up to the extreme bank affiliate scheme on 16th Oct 2010


At which time I checked the sites terms (which did not exists) and the FAQs which did not state anything about non promotion via domain misspellings.
http://web.archive.org/web/201011021...nk.com/faq.php
http://web.archive.org/web/201010190....com/terms.php


The site has never had any terms available at any point since joining the affiliate scheme.


How can an affiliate violate terms that do not exists?

You may be right in that he changed the terms but if he's letting you keep the rebills then that seems reasonable. It still sucks but you are free to send those visitors somewhere else if you determine that he does not have a case for trying to seize the domain from you.

Now if you send the visitors elsewhere after he tells you to take a hike and he tries to take your rebills then he would be a full blown scumbag. But it's his affiliate program and you can't force him to accept your traffic nor should you try.

[stocktrader23]

Originally Posted by signupdamnit

You may be right in that he changed the terms but if he's letting you keep the rebills then that seems reasonable. It still sucks but you are free to send those visitors somewhere else if you determine that he does not have a case for trying to seize the domain from you.

Now if you send the visitors elsewhere after he tells you to take a hike and he tries to take your rebills then he would be a full blown scumbag. But it's his affiliate program and you can't force him to accept your traffic nor should you try.

Can we not try to talk some sense into him at least?

[VIXEN ESCORTS]

This is crazy, if you were using roxy-raye.com to promote non extremebank roxy raye sites he couldn't say or do anything unless he went for trademark legalities. But you use the domain to promote his stuff and he doesn't like it !!

[iSpyCams]

Programs that wont allow you to send traffic via variations of their domains are basically saying they'd prefer you to send it to someone else.

If I was you I'd get myself some non exclusive content of that bitch and make my own pay-site.

These finicky fucking control freaks would be much better off if they just realized that people are gonna do what they do either way, they might as well keep cashing the checks cause if they don't someone else will.

I don't know why there are affiliates at all anymore, I discovered myself even the weakest fucking site in the world can make more money billing on its own than sending joins to someone else.

[bean-aid]

Originally Posted by pompousjohn

Programs that wont allow you to send traffic via variations of their domains are basically saying they'd prefer you to send it to someone else.

If I was you I'd get myself some non exclusive content of that bitch and make my own pay-site.

These finicky fucking control freaks would be much better off if they just realized that people are gonna do what they do either way, they might as well keep cashing the checks cause if they don't someone else will.

I don't know why there are affiliates at all anymore, I discovered myself even the weakest fucking site in the world can make more money billing on its own than sending joins to someone else.

Very true. I don't understand why successful sites that only direct traffic to sponsors don't just buy there own content and make a paysite.

It takes a little bit of money for the content and knowledge to keep up SE rankings but shit, they would make 5 to 10 times more money. I am setting up free sites and saying fuck it to sponsors... I want the traffic. Once the traffic... then a paysite.

[Jel]

Slating him is gonna accomplish nothing, not everyone knows everything, so at least be civil with the bloke and let him see the other side of the coin instead of getting his back up, and making him more likely to say gfy.

Biz should always be about win-win, and in a legit biz thread like this, a load of shit slinging accomplishes lose-lose, or at best win-lose.

Adam you seem a very reasonable person, so take a step back and read what stocktrader says - he is 100% spot on. Don't cut your nose off to spite your face, especially in the current climate

[stocktrader23]

Originally Posted by Jel

Slating him is gonna accomplish nothing, not everyone knows everything, so at least be civil with the bloke and let him see the other side of the coin instead of getting his back up, and making him more likely to say gfy.

Biz should always be about win-win, and in a legit biz thread like this, a load of shit slinging accomplishes lose-lose, or at best win-lose.

Adam you seem a very reasonable person, so take a step back and read what stocktrader says - he is 100% spot on. Don't cut your nose off to spite your face, especially in the current climate

And I'd be happy to prove it. roxyraye.com is not setup to receive any benefits from search engines anyhow so this is even more clear cut. The domain in question shows nowhere for the search 'roxy raye' so they have basically booted free money out of their system over this.

[Jel]

edited:

I read your post wrong

[LouiseLloyd]

At the end of the day I made some good sales from extremebank for v.little work, I think what really narked me was I had noticed a drop in sales due to new affiliate and also some leaks on the site so decided to spend a few days last week updating my site to start taking advantage of some of the search traffic and was hoping to really start promoting the site more serious.

Regardless once a sponsor does anything that makes you question the legitimacy of their program you can never realistically return as you were as you will always suspect they will seek revenge or shave your sales some how especially when you have brought it to the boards.

So thank you for letting me vent my frustrations and hopefully I highlighted a few issues.

I look forward to working with some new sponsors.

[ExtremeBank_Adam]

Originally Posted by LouiseLloyd

At the end of the day I made some good sales from extremebank for v.little work, I think what really narked me was I had noticed a drop in sales due to new affiliate and also some leaks on the site so decided to spend a few days last week updating my site to start taking advantage of some of the search traffic and was hoping to really start promoting the site more serious.

Regardless once a sponsor does anything that makes you question the legitimacy of their program you can never realistically return as you were as you will always suspect they will seek revenge or shave your sales some how especially when you have brought it to the boards.

So thank you for letting me vent my frustrations and hopefully I highlighted a few issues.

I look forward to working with some new sponsors.

I don't hold grudges, I don't seek revenge, I don't shave sales. I'm sorry that you're not happy with our program, and I'm glad you converted well with us. And, if you would have done ANY of the stuff you did on a different domain, I would have been ok with it. Hell, move all of your stuff over to a different domain now and I'll reactivate you. Just don't use a typo or hyphenated version of our domains. That's (almost) all I ask.

Any other affiliates looking for a good hardcore, sponsor that converts... hit me up. We use CCBill, and are currently converting at about 1:500 on ALL traffic total, even the traffic that doesn't fit our program (softcore, etc.) or tube traffic. Our best affiliates are converting at less than 1:40.

LouiseLloyd, like I mentioned, I'll invite you to move your stuff over to a new domain and I'll reactivate you. I think that's pretty fair. I'll even Paypal you 10 bucks to buy a new domain if you want.

[stocktrader23]

Originally Posted by ExtremeBank_Adam

I don't hold grudges, I don't seek revenge, I don't shave sales. I'm sorry that you're not happy with our program, and I'm glad you converted well with us. And, if you would have done ANY of the stuff you did on a different domain, I would have been ok with it. Hell, move all of your stuff over to a different domain now and I'll reactivate you. Just don't use a typo or hyphenated version of our domains. That's (almost) all I ask.

Any other affiliates looking for a good hardcore, sponsor that converts... hit me up. We use CCBill, and are currently converting at about 1:500 on ALL traffic total, even the traffic that doesn't fit our program (softcore, etc.) or tube traffic. Our best affiliates are converting at less than 1:40.

LouiseLloyd, like I mentioned, I'll invite you to move your stuff over to a new domain and I'll reactivate you. I think that's pretty fair. I'll even Paypal you 10 bucks to buy a new domain if you want.

What do you have against hyphenated domains? Serious question because he helped, not hurt your business.

[ExtremeBank_Adam]

Originally Posted by stocktrader23

What do you have against hyphenated domains? Serious question because he helped, not hurt your business.

Personal preference. This whole thing started because a member was going to his site and couldn't find the "members" link, so he emailed me for support. He was even using our colors and graphics to make his site have the same look as ours. I want NO confusion to our members over what site is ours.

[Rochard]

Why complain to CCBill? That's like having a billing issue with your power company and bitching to your mortage company.

CCBill has no control over who a program suspends.

[stocktrader23]

Originally Posted by ExtremeBank_Adam

Personal preference. This whole thing started because a member was going to his site and couldn't find the "members" link, so he emailed me for support. He was even using our colors and graphics to make his site have the same look as ours. I want NO confusion to our members over what site is ours.

Understandable, but users are retarded. Thousands of people tried to log into Facebook from a third party site and bitched about the new look when that site took over the top Google result for Facebook. In the end, he's making you money and nothing is actually confusing to those with a brain so I just think that should be considered. You absolutely have the right to do whatever you want with your business, it's just a silly stance in my opinion.

[seeandsee]

Originally Posted by Rochard

Why complain to CCBill? That's like having a billing issue with your power company and bitching to your mortage company.

CCBill has no control over who a program suspends.

As i can see, that affiliate [thread starter] is not complaining about CCBill... he is looking for way to get himself back in aff.program (that use ccbill)...

[Chris]

yea i dont get why ppl wont allow promotion on domains similar to yours

if you didnt buy em thats your fault


tons of our guys have vimax related domain names that we could of bought

[Jel]

Adam: Your user is a fucking idiot. There is *nothing* to stop anyone registering roxyrayemembers.com or whatever, and 'confusing' a different total fucking moron intentionally. Appeasing 1 window-licker at the expense of many affiliate sales is a really bad business move. You will never please 100% of surfers, because of the very reason that although 'the customer is always right', you need to bear in mind 'the customer is always a fucking retard'.

Seriously, that is a very bad biz decision to make.

[Jel]

Oh, and same colours/graphics is to make the transition from SE freesite to your paysite as seamless as possible. Pretty standard marketing.