Verisign asking for "Web Takedown" powers. This could clean up .com real nice maybe.

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  • seeric
    ..........
    • Aug 2004
    • 41917
    #1

    Verisign asking for "Web Takedown" powers. This could clean up .com real nice maybe.

    Good news for content owners? People who don't want shit done to their computers with malware? etc.

    I wouldn't want to be a .com right now with all kinds of stolen content on my domains, that's for sure.

    Today, US agencies can get court orders instructing VeriSign to hand over domains. While imposing US law on .com owners from other countries is controversial, at least overseas registrants know where they stand.

    Now VeriSign is talking about cooperating with European law enforcement agencies too.



    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/10...kedown_powers/


    Could mean something, could mean nothing. It looks like a start though.

    Discuss.

    Tags: None
    • CyberHustler
      Masterbaiter
      • Feb 2006
      • 28760
      #2
      Man, fuck allat!
      “If you can convince the lowest white man he’s better than the best colored man, he won’t notice you’re picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he’ll empty his pockets for you.”

        Comment

        • seeric
          ..........
          • Aug 2004
          • 41917
          #3
          Could potentially give Verisign the power to pull .coms that are harboring stolen content farms and don't remove at the request of the owner by DMCA. There are tons of them.

            Comment

            • blackmonsters
              Making PHP work
              • Nov 2002
              • 21001
              #4
              As long as they can stick to the correct purpose it would be good.

              It can't work like youtube's initial form of DMCA which was abused by bullshit
              claims so much that they had to change it.

              That would suck.
              Your neighbor will murder you with frogs
              Click here

                Comment

                • CyberHustler
                  Masterbaiter
                  • Feb 2006
                  • 28760
                  #5
                  Could be good if used only for that, but do you think they will only stick to stolen content farms though? Or will this turn into "this site isn't morally correct in my book, take down!", or a bunch of fraud complaints destroying businesses?
                  “If you can convince the lowest white man he’s better than the best colored man, he won’t notice you’re picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he’ll empty his pockets for you.”

                    Comment

                    • seeric
                      ..........
                      • Aug 2004
                      • 41917
                      #6
                      Yes, could be potential for abuse for sure. People screwing with each other like the Hatfields and the McCoys. LOL.

                        Comment

                        • nextri
                          Confirmed User
                          • May 2004
                          • 1661
                          #7
                          This is not a good thing at all. It basically gives the US court system control over the internet. The internet is international, and it's not right that it's controlled by the US. Foreign webmasters and domain owners have little chance of getting a fair chance to defend themselves in a US court, considering the costs involved in having legal representation in a foreign country.

                          I'm all for ways to prevent content theft and piracy, but giving the US government control over the rest of the world when it comes to the internet, is not the right way to do it. They basically want to make US laws apply to everyone all over the world in regards to the internet.
                          DivaTraffic - Traffic for Models

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                            • Relentless
                              www.EngineFood.com
                              • Aug 2006
                              • 5697
                              #8
                              The company said today it wants to be able to enforce the "denial, cancellation or transfer of any registration" in any of a laundry list of scenarios where a domain is deemed to be "abusive". VeriSign should be able to shut down a .com or .net domain, and therefore its associated website and email, "to comply with any applicable court orders, laws, government rules or requirements, requests of law enforcement or other governmental or quasi-governmental agency, or any dispute resolution process", according to a document it filed today with domain name industry overseer ICANN.
                              That bolded part is the problem. If they are shutting domains down based on court order, clear legislative rules and requirements... that's one thing. When it becomes broad enough to allow them, at their own discretion without any oversight, to shut down domains based on quasi-governmental dispute resolution there is way too much gray area for them to go after sites based on subjective obscenity beliefs, bogus claims, patent trolls with very little justification etc... and that 'cure' would be worse than the disease.

                              Only, if they limit it to very clear specific reasons for shutdowns would I be all for it.


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                                • seeric
                                  ..........
                                  • Aug 2004
                                  • 41917
                                  #9
                                  Originally posted by nextri
                                  This is not a good thing at all. It basically gives the US court system control over the internet. The internet is international, and it's not right that it's controlled by the US. Foreign webmasters and domain owners have little chance of getting a fair chance to defend themselves in a US court, considering the costs involved in having legal representation in a foreign country.

                                  I'm all for ways to prevent content theft and piracy, but giving the US government control over the rest of the world when it comes to the internet, is not the right way to do it. They basically want to make US laws apply to everyone all over the world in regards to the internet.
                                  Well, with all due respect, .com is a USA based registry, so no matter what they are bound by USA laws. Verisign is out of the Commonwealth of the State of Virginia, USA. If I broke laws in France, and I had to represent myself there, then so be it. I wouldn't break laws in or on the countries jurisdiction that I didn't want to defend myself on. Criminals don't really think things through.

                                  Don't break the law and you won't have to represent yourself is the way I look at it.

                                    Comment

                                    • nextri
                                      Confirmed User
                                      • May 2004
                                      • 1661
                                      #10
                                      Actually, they want to be able to do it even without a court order. That is even more ridiculous and makes for some scary scenarios.
                                      DivaTraffic - Traffic for Models

                                        Comment

                                        • seeric
                                          ..........
                                          • Aug 2004
                                          • 41917
                                          #11
                                          Originally posted by Relentless
                                          That bolded part is the problem. If they are shutting domains down based on court order, clear legislative rules and requirements... that's one thing. When it becomes broad enough to allow them, at their own discretion without any oversight, to shut down domains based on quasi-governmental dispute resolution there is way too much gray area for them to go after sites based on subjective obscenity beliefs, bogus claims, patent trolls with very little justification etc... and that 'cure' would be worse than the disease.

                                          Only, if they limit it to very clear specific reasons for shutdowns would I be all for it.
                                          Agreed. I think that is what he was saying in essence. Which I agree with.

                                            Comment

                                            • raymor
                                              Confirmed User
                                              • Oct 2002
                                              • 3745
                                              #12
                                              I can certainly see both sides of this one. There will undoubtedly be a comment period. Does anyone have a better solution? I don't think you can just leave a fake bank site at chãse.com up, defrauding people just because it's registered in China.
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                                                • nextri
                                                  Confirmed User
                                                  • May 2004
                                                  • 1661
                                                  #13
                                                  What this can lead to though, is that some random government agency finds something questionable on a website, that might have been user uploaded, or even user posted slander of some sorts, then proceed to seize the domain, without the domain owner having a chance to represent himself.
                                                  DivaTraffic - Traffic for Models

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                                                    • L-Pink
                                                      working on my tan
                                                      • Mar 2005
                                                      • 39151
                                                      #14
                                                      Originally posted by seeric
                                                      Well, with all due respect, .com is a USA based registry, so no matter what they are bound by USA laws. Verisign is out of the Commonwealth of the State of Virginia, USA. If I broke laws in France, and I had to represent myself there, then so be it. I wouldn't break laws in or on the countries jurisdiction that I didn't want to defend myself on. Criminals don't really think things through.

                                                      Don't break the law and you won't have to represent yourself is the way I look at it.


                                                      .

                                                        Comment

                                                        • blackmonsters
                                                          Making PHP work
                                                          • Nov 2002
                                                          • 21001
                                                          #15
                                                          Originally posted by nextri
                                                          This is not a good thing at all. It basically gives the US court system control over the internet. The internet is international, and it's not right that it's controlled by the US. Foreign webmasters and domain owners have little chance of getting a fair chance to defend themselves in a US court, considering the costs involved in having legal representation in a foreign country.

                                                          I'm all for ways to prevent content theft and piracy, but giving the US government control over the rest of the world when it comes to the internet, is not the right way to do it. They basically want to make US laws apply to everyone all over the world in regards to the internet.
                                                          But the only reason this is being discussed is that the international community isn't
                                                          doing jack shit to stop the theft of mostly US copyrighted works.

                                                          If Russia, China etc... would actually shut something down besides political websites
                                                          then we wouldn't be at this point.

                                                          They can stop any website that says "The Government Sucks" but they can never shut
                                                          down a site with $10 billion worth of stolen US content.
                                                          Your neighbor will murder you with frogs
                                                          Click here

                                                            Comment

                                                            • Phoenix
                                                              BACON BACON BACON
                                                              • Nov 2002
                                                              • 35475
                                                              #16
                                                              interesting stuff, if you are legit should be no problem

                                                              however, i suspect this will be used for more bad then good
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                                                                Comment

                                                                • seeric
                                                                  ..........
                                                                  • Aug 2004
                                                                  • 41917
                                                                  #17
                                                                  Ahhhhhh yes, the good old "User Uploaded" innocent victim. We know that none of the stolen content sites employ third world uploaders. How could any innocent tube/fileshare owner dare be caught up in the snare of a bad, bad surfer uploading content.

                                                                    Comment

                                                                    • epitome
                                                                      So Fucking Lame
                                                                      • Jun 2009
                                                                      • 12156
                                                                      #18
                                                                      I see nothing mentioned about changes to DMCA so I don't know why people are mentioning that.

                                                                        Comment

                                                                        • Rochard
                                                                          Jägermeister Test Pilot
                                                                          • Dec 2001
                                                                          • 75733
                                                                          #19
                                                                          Interesting....

                                                                          Originally posted by seeric

                                                                          Today, US agencies can get court orders instructing VeriSign to hand over domains. While imposing US law on .com owners from other countries is controversial, at least overseas registrants know where they stand.
                                                                          Why is this controversial? American company, American law.
                                                                          Herschel Savage
                                                                          Brooklyn, NY

                                                                            Comment

                                                                            • pornguy
                                                                              Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                              • Mar 2003
                                                                              • 62910
                                                                              #20
                                                                              I sent a 19 page DMCA to them today about a site they host and registered.
                                                                              PornGuy skype me pornguy_epic

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                                                                                • nextri
                                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                                  • May 2004
                                                                                  • 1661
                                                                                  #21
                                                                                  Originally posted by Rochard
                                                                                  Interesting....

                                                                                  Why is this controversial? American company, American law.
                                                                                  ICANN is an international organization that gave Verisign the rights to maintain the .com registry.

                                                                                  .com is not a US tld, it's an international TLD
                                                                                  DivaTraffic - Traffic for Models

                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                    • seeric
                                                                                      ..........
                                                                                      • Aug 2004
                                                                                      • 41917
                                                                                      #22
                                                                                      Originally posted by nextri
                                                                                      ICANN is an international organization that gave Verisign the rights to maintain the .com registry.

                                                                                      .com is not a US tld, it's an international TLD
                                                                                      You clearly don't understand how registry works.

                                                                                      BTW, you don't maintain much credibility with FacePorn as a sig. That is a pretty clear case of mark infringement in my opinion.
                                                                                      Last edited by seeric; 10-11-2011, 10:17 AM.

                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                        • cherrylula
                                                                                          lol
                                                                                          • Jan 2002
                                                                                          • 15969
                                                                                          #23
                                                                                          The internet is so full of trash, someone's going to have to clean it up eventually.

                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                            • Rochard
                                                                                              Jägermeister Test Pilot
                                                                                              • Dec 2001
                                                                                              • 75733
                                                                                              #24
                                                                                              Originally posted by nextri
                                                                                              ICANN is an international organization that gave Verisign the rights to maintain the .com registry.

                                                                                              .com is not a US tld, it's an international TLD
                                                                                              Again, Verisign is a US company. If they have take down rights, borders will not matter. An American company will be able to shut down any website no matter what country it's in.
                                                                                              Herschel Savage
                                                                                              Brooklyn, NY

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                                                                                                • Relentless
                                                                                                  www.EngineFood.com
                                                                                                  • Aug 2006
                                                                                                  • 5697
                                                                                                  #25
                                                                                                  What seems to be missed here is that the SAME people who are skirting the law now by publishing sites with stolen content will be the ones who abuse this new tool and use it to shut down competition with little proof....

                                                                                                  What stops someone from publishing content stolen from a members area and then filing a 'claim' that the true originator of the content 'stole' it from them and needs to be shut down. What stops people from filing bogus complaints by the thousands just to clog up the system or create the perception that a truly honest site is somehow dishonest...

                                                                                                  The possibility of abusing this new tool makes it worse than the reality of not having it available. They must list VERY specific rules for it and have a streamlined FREE appeals process or it will backfire and do harm to honest sites instead.


                                                                                                  Website Secure | Engine Food
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                                                                                                    • pornmasta
                                                                                                      Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                                                      • Jun 2006
                                                                                                      • 19818
                                                                                                      #26
                                                                                                      this will never happen

                                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                                        • nextri
                                                                                                          Confirmed User
                                                                                                          • May 2004
                                                                                                          • 1661
                                                                                                          #27
                                                                                                          Originally posted by seeric
                                                                                                          You clearly don't understand how registry works.

                                                                                                          BTW, you don't maintain much credibility with FacePorn as a sig. That is a pretty clear case of mark infringement in my opinion.
                                                                                                          That might be your opinion, I happen to disagree.

                                                                                                          But tell me this, if it's a pretty clear case of infringment. Following that logic. How is faceporn vs facebook different than youporn vs youtube or redtube vs youtube? Or the million other tube sites?
                                                                                                          DivaTraffic - Traffic for Models

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                                                                                                            • Barry-xlovecam
                                                                                                              It's 42
                                                                                                              • Jun 2010
                                                                                                              • 18083
                                                                                                              #28
                                                                                                              If you think Verisign will be that concerned to act on the copyright infringement issues of pornographer's stolen works ... Don't hold your breath.

                                                                                                              I think that this will be mainly in response to phishing sites, counterfeit software as well as illegal pharmaceutical sellers and designer goods counterfeiters.

                                                                                                              I suppose Verisign could be sued by adult industry players to enforce the new rules ... That is what it will probably take.

                                                                                                              As far as the USA controlling the Internet -- some registries are USA entities and subject to USA laws -- case closed. The are other registries you can do business with that are not affected by USA law.

                                                                                                                Comment

                                                                                                                • porno jew
                                                                                                                  Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                                                                  • Nov 2006
                                                                                                                  • 10166
                                                                                                                  #29
                                                                                                                  First they came for the torrent downloaders,
                                                                                                                  and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a torrent downloader.

                                                                                                                  Then they came for the tube video uploaders,
                                                                                                                  and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a tube video uploader.

                                                                                                                  Then they came for the file locker users,
                                                                                                                  and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a file locker user.

                                                                                                                  Then they came for me
                                                                                                                  and there was no one left to speak out for me.

                                                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                                                    • Nautilus
                                                                                                                      Confirmed User
                                                                                                                      • Sep 2002
                                                                                                                      • 1631
                                                                                                                      #30
                                                                                                                      If they're going to shut down filesonic and thepiratebay, I'm all for it.
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                                                                                                                        • halfpint
                                                                                                                          GFY's Halfpint
                                                                                                                          • Jun 2007
                                                                                                                          • 15223
                                                                                                                          #31
                                                                                                                          Well that means Youtube, Facebook and Google are all fucked Yeah lol

                                                                                                                          Edit: well google is fucked anyway so that wont make much of a difference
                                                                                                                          Last edited by halfpint; 10-11-2011, 04:41 PM.

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                                                                                                                            • Robbie
                                                                                                                              Leaner, Meaner, Faster
                                                                                                                              • Aug 2002
                                                                                                                              • 20960
                                                                                                                              #32
                                                                                                                              Originally posted by nextri
                                                                                                                              I'm all for ways to prevent content theft and piracy
                                                                                                                              I see people say that all the time. Especially when they aren't the ones having their work stolen and monetized by other people.

                                                                                                                              With all respect...if you had skin in the game and put your ass on the line like we do...you would really understand what being against piracy really is.
                                                                                                                              -Robbie
                                                                                                                              ClaudiaMarie.Com

                                                                                                                                Comment

                                                                                                                                • u-Bob
                                                                                                                                  there's no $$$ in porn
                                                                                                                                  • Jul 2005
                                                                                                                                  • 33063
                                                                                                                                  #33
                                                                                                                                  A disaster waiting to happen. The potential for abuse is enormous.

                                                                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                                                                    • porno jew
                                                                                                                                      Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                                                                                      • Nov 2006
                                                                                                                                      • 10166
                                                                                                                                      #34
                                                                                                                                      so what are the going to do with filesonic.ph? the piratebay.ph?

                                                                                                                                      stupid law that wont stop anything but will just be abused.

                                                                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                                                                        • Robbie
                                                                                                                                          Leaner, Meaner, Faster
                                                                                                                                          • Aug 2002
                                                                                                                                          • 20960
                                                                                                                                          #35
                                                                                                                                          Originally posted by u-Bob
                                                                                                                                          A disaster waiting to happen. The potential for abuse is enormous.
                                                                                                                                          As I said in my last post...if you had skin in the game you would see it differently.

                                                                                                                                          This business has been hit by piracy with full guns blazing.

                                                                                                                                          We have almost ZERO legal recourse thanks to the outdated DMCA laws.

                                                                                                                                          So if the govt. "abuses" it...it won't be any worse for the people who are already being "abused" and losing millions of dollars already.
                                                                                                                                          And face facts...if the U.S. govt decides to take over the internet and censor it to the ground they will. No matter what. And if it's found unconstitutional? Well, they'll just ammend the constitution and make it legal. Just like they did with federal income tax.

                                                                                                                                          Fucking govt. runs every damn thing. And if they are going to put piracy on their radar? GOOD. About fucking time.
                                                                                                                                          -Robbie
                                                                                                                                          ClaudiaMarie.Com

                                                                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                                                                            • gideongallery
                                                                                                                                              Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                              • Aug 2003
                                                                                                                                              • 7082
                                                                                                                                              #36
                                                                                                                                              Originally posted by seeric
                                                                                                                                              Well, with all due respect, .com is a USA based registry, so no matter what they are bound by USA laws. Verisign is out of the Commonwealth of the State of Virginia, USA. If I broke laws in France, and I had to represent myself there, then so be it. I wouldn't break laws in or on the countries jurisdiction that I didn't want to defend myself on. Criminals don't really think things through.

                                                                                                                                              Don't break the law and you won't have to represent yourself is the way I look at it.
                                                                                                                                              so if a single packet of traffic is routed thru a country that outlaws porn you should be prosecuted for that too.

                                                                                                                                              not one single piece of content is routed thru the dns name resolution request

                                                                                                                                              the entire "infringing" transaction happens after the verisign transaction happens because tcp/ip is routed to an IP ADDRESS, not a domain.

                                                                                                                                              “When crimes occur through the mail, you don’t shut the post office down,” Steve Wozniak

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                                                                                                                                                • crockett
                                                                                                                                                  in a van by the river
                                                                                                                                                  • May 2003
                                                                                                                                                  • 76818
                                                                                                                                                  #37
                                                                                                                                                  I always wondered how long it would take politicians to realize that .com is technically a US extension.

                                                                                                                                                  It would end up just being a censorship tool and really wouldn't affect piracy as the thieves would just use other domain extensions if it became a issue and surfers would adapt.
                                                                                                                                                  Last edited by crockett; 10-11-2011, 06:31 PM.
                                                                                                                                                  In November, you can vote for America's next president or its first dictator.

                                                                                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                                                                                    • BIGTYMER
                                                                                                                                                      Junior Achiever
                                                                                                                                                      • Nov 2004
                                                                                                                                                      • 17066
                                                                                                                                                      #38
                                                                                                                                                      Bad news...

                                                                                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                                                                                        • porno jew
                                                                                                                                                          Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                                                                                                          • Nov 2006
                                                                                                                                                          • 10166
                                                                                                                                                          #39
                                                                                                                                                          http://it.kat.ph/blog/post/278/

                                                                                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                                                                                            • BareBacked
                                                                                                                                                              Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                              • Feb 2007
                                                                                                                                                              • 3685
                                                                                                                                                              #40
                                                                                                                                                              Originally posted by nextri
                                                                                                                                                              This is not a good thing at all. It basically gives the US court system control over the internet. The internet is international, and it's not right that it's controlled by the US. Foreign webmasters and domain owners have little chance of getting a fair chance to defend themselves in a US court, considering the costs involved in having legal representation in a foreign country.

                                                                                                                                                              I'm all for ways to prevent content theft and piracy, but giving the US government control over the rest of the world when it comes to the internet, is not the right way to do it. They basically want to make US laws apply to everyone all over the world in regards to the internet.
                                                                                                                                                              I was under the impression that us law always controlled the .com
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