Mutt posed a good point. Is there an affordable solution to the decline ip paysite sales?

He took a product we bought once a couple of years and turned it into a product we bought repeatedly as soon as the new version came out.

This was what offline porn was about.

People went to buy the next version of an Ed Powers, Buttman, Private, Wicked, or magazines, series. Looking to see what they were getting up to this month. Wanting another months supply based on last months supply. We killed that.

Steve Jobs took a one off buy product and by improving it every time, with a few more extra gadgets and nice design, then big launches he created this need to get the latest version. Never gave the product away, never gave free updates and never intentionally went a step backwards with the product to pay for the marketing. He largely let the product market itself. he did some pushing, but ultimately people bought the next one based on the last one.

In online porn porn people don't buy the next one, this is based on what the last one was like. And the fact the free one is better. Because that's where we spend our money and concentrate our efforts.

Sorry, no, that's just marketing bullshit you sucked up like a little jericurled bitch.

Penn and Teller proved it on bullshit by giving everyone tap water in fancy glasses and telling them it was posh. Everyone, like you, bought the bullshit.

No. He invented personal computing.

Tempted to read what Damian said. I'm thinking positively again.

Thinking he might have something worth reading and taking him off ignore.

No I can't be bothered it's probably, most likely his standard pointless dribble.

Shit stupid me. I was dead right. It was more of his pointless dribble.

Why did I open it just to take this thread to another page I suppose. LOL

Fucked that up then.

And wow. I predicted you'd not make a week with me on ignore. YOu didn't even last 3 hours.

Fucking lollington lol.

PS 200 hundy people laughing at Paul's lack of ideas.

When you go into an airport there is free water everywhere, it is free yet the shops still sell it often right next to where it is free

Most workplaces have free water for their employees, either from the tap or from machines. I wouldn't be surprised if there wasnt a law to allow employees access to water. They don't charge employees for taking a glass of water from the tap. It is free. Yet employees go out in their lunch break and buy it and take it back to work.

When you go to the gym there is free water everywhere, it is free yet the gyms still sell it in vending machines right along side where it is free

When you go into a restaurant anywhere in England pretty much and ask for tap water the restaurant will give it to you for free, yet people still buy it. Including my Mrs

Often apartments and flats have water included in their rent. It is free, they pay no extra to have it. Yet people who get it for free still pay for it and put it in their fridge.

Most people who pay water rats in the UK are not metered. I'm not metered at home so I have to pay what I pay regardless of how much water I use. So when I take a glass of water out of the tap it costs me no extra. It is free. But my Mrs like millions of others still buys water.

When I use to live at home with my parents, like many other people, they didn't charge me extra for water I drunk. It was free. But I still bought it.

If you wanted to, you could collect water in the garden in a big tank when it rains, or scoop up the snow when it snows and drink it for free. Yet people still buy it.

Water is often free. Even when drunk at home, unless you have a meter, then drinking extra water on top of what you have to pay is free.

I would say its almost impossible to not get free water. Usually right along side where you pay for water.

It has been proven time and time and time again, people buy water because they want to. Not because it tastes better and certainly not because they can't find free water.

Water is bought as a lifestyle choice. When you buy into bottled water you buy into a life aspiration. No one buys water for any other reason. They "think" they do. They are wrong though. Ask the people who buy and sell water.

Water is bought and sold between countries who have an abundance of water. Waters biggest market is countries that have unlimited supplies of water selling to other countries that have unlimited amounts of water. Not countries without water. They don't buy hardly any.


Water is free. Yet people still buy it.

Let me explain a small point to everyone.

IT DOESN'T MATTER IF DRINKING WATER, SHOWER WATER, TOILET WATER, TAP WATER OR BOTTLED WATER OR ICE COLD VODKA OR VINTAGE CHAMPAIGN IS FREE.

We sell porn.

So all you trolls running off on a tangent trying to prove water is free, is a waste of your time and shows you all up as clueless.

I HAVE TIME TO POKE FUN AT YOU. WHAT'S YOUR EXCUSES?

isn't who complaint that there is to much FREE porn out there?

I took gideon off "Ignore" wondering what intelligent comment he might make in this thread.

Now back to "Ignore" for him.

Your grammar is worse than mine, but it's a great point.

The fools, who call themselves marketing people, comparing online porn to the bottled water business are missing a few fundamental points.

Damina came closest to it with his answer of people on street corners giving out free bottled water. Still not precisely right.

The people giving away free porn stand between the buyers and sellers. Buyers often wade through tons of free porn to get to a paysite. There are a few who can go straight to a paysite but it's tiny %.

The culture is to buy bottled water. We online have done our utmost to make the culture to not buy online porn.

Rarely do people get unclean water water when buying bottled water, they run a much biger risk of getting poor porn when buying a membership.

And I could go on and on. But the pseudo marketing men in online porn will still dribble out the same crap about bottle water and free water. To deter people from looking at the truth. In the marketing world online porn must be a joke.

We spent 12 years or more, giving away as much porn as possible, when BW crashed we didn't do much to the product that made a real difference. We just loaded the Internet with more free porn. Yes trolls we put bigger WMV and FLV movies inside sites. And 100,000,000 surfers prefer Tubes to members areas. So I guess that wasn't such a great move.

It all started a long time ago when people decided the best way to sell porn was to give it away. And claimed the reason it worked was because millions were coming online for porn. Well 12 years later that's exposed as bullshit. They got an online connection and came to get the free porn. And a few bought. Maybe as few as 1-200. Of that 200 there were many who had bought offline porn.

Now the free porn model is hitting online porn. and they point the finger at pirates. Still ignoring the real cause, they ca look in a mirror to see who to blame.

And this post while being spot oo true, will get nothing but pointless abuse, to deter people from discussing the problem and finding a solution. If there is one now.

Remember that everyone as the replies come in.

paul why do people spend money advertising paysites on tubes month after month?

The biggest problem with online porn is the people in it.

If you started in 1998, survived, did well, kissed asses, supported everyone in their flawed theories. you often achieve "Bro" status. People tell you how clever you are, because you told them how clever they are and the business is built on sand.

If you're someone who hits online porn after decades of working offline, direct and indirect, marketing and selling your product and yourself, learning what customers want, learning how to create, market and sell it. And see online is largely producing crap, has no idea what customers want, don't even like to meet customers and can only sell it by giving it to 100s to find 1 to buy (not selling or marketing in anyones book) and point out it's wrong. You achieve Troll status.

Doesn't matter that 12 years later you're proved right. You're still an idiot for calling the idiots wrong.

As they tap away from their living rooms, they think they're part of a big industry. Think online porn made more than offline, then quote production companies figures to prove themselves right, because quoting the retail porn business figures would show their ignorance. Worse still they still think as the ship sinks, throwing buckets of water into the ship is still going to save it.

The bright ones have long gone, the clever ones are going. And an old retiree sits here poking fun at them. For the mess they made.

paul why do people spend money advertising paysites on tubes month after month?

Because it's cheaper than letting you send them traffic as an affiliate, because it's the only place left with decent traffic, because many of the sites are owned by the big boys and doing deals with each other, because the idiots in this business want to pay their assassins. Because it's cheaper than making a site that's worth joining. Because throwing gasoline on a fire is the best way to put the fire out.

You really are clueless. Wait till sales on paysites aren't worth buying ad space for, because people can't be bothers to go to the ad to click.

Hi PJ, had to go eat breakfast and gave your question for thought. So why do they?

Without irony this time.

Look around GFY at the money spent given to affiliates to get a sign up. Think back to 1998 to the birth of the affiliates system and it's growth. The whole structure of the affiliate system was flawed. People did buy porn and it was easy to sell, the people with paysites often thought they didn't and it was hard to sell.

So they paid a lot of money to a lot of people and gave them all the tools they needed to erect a wall between the buyer and seller. And the solution to all problems was to pay for more builders and give them more bricks.

Tubes and earlier TGPs cost online porn billions. Yes they did not create sales, they destroyed the need to buy. We all remember the ratios off a TGP. One on The Hun had to be very good or the BW burn would cost more than the returns. That's because 1,000s were consuming and not buying. Top spots were often bought by sponsors themselves, to get sign ups and get affiliates attention.

The only thing save us from the Tsunami was BW costs, we wouldn't do anything to save ourselves.

Better question is. Why did online porn create it's own assassin and pay so much to him. 10% would of been more than enough to pay affiliates, a few pictures per set, fine, a few banners fine. And the rest. Well this was the common sense route.

You're self employed, sub contractors. Go do it for yourself.

There's a phrase that says "He who pays the piper calls the tune." Not in online porn. Sponsors pay the piper and the piper calls the tune.

The amount of money and over all support given to affiliates would of been far better spent in house with a marketing department. That's largely what the big Tubes are today. Owned by the big boys and good luck to anyone trying to compete with them.

So to answer your question , why do they advertise on Tubes? The industry built it's house on sand and the only way to keep it afloat is to pile more sand under the foundations.

Or simply.

They have little alternative.

Not because Tubes are better, because no sponsor can say Tubes have replaced the old sales. Was it you that said you were doing 1-800 off Tube traffic? You never told us how many surfers it takes to get 800 to a site. Can you. Will you?

I first wandered into an Internext show, crossing the corridor from the AVN show. And was shocked with the people selling manning stands then.

Did buyers of the Zmaster content discs know where the images came from, thought about what they were doing? The images were often the out takes from a porn video shoot or old stuff from the archives of magazine shooters. The discs were selling in the 1,000s. Of course it was saturated, that was Zmasters and my aim. We want loads of people to buy the same sets over and over again.

Then the sponsors who were offering me @5,000 a year and slightly more to shoot exclusive for them. The best was $50,000 They didn't have a clue what a successful magazine shooter makes. Here was a Brit, in Las Vegas, on their stand for business and they still though $25,000 was a wage for me.

Then content brokers who didn't have the money or a clue what would sell or were going to rip me off. Not wanting to pay $300 for the license to sell my sets online. Soon found out $300 was a steal for them.

Bunch of clueless people. most didn't last very long. We all remember those who did and forget those who fucked up.

Then site owners and sponsors. did they really think buying custom content from someone who couldn't sell the same scene 7 times from a store wasn't that good? Forget magazines, none of the content shooters in 2000 had a clue how to shoot 120 frames for a set that would sell for $3,000.

Then the guys who think shooting porn is about the camera. It's not, it's about the model and the way the shooter directs her. Cameras even in the days of film weren't that hard to use. Video has stopped being on film before many here were born. No excuse for that. But a guy who had no idea how to shoot porn, thought he could do it because he had a camera.

That surfers only wanted cheap badly shot content masquerading as amateur. When the truth was clear, that's all they could afford to buy.

And that's the truth about the birth of online porn. It was a business started on a shoestring by people who couldn't market bottled water in the desert, couldn't tell the difference between a nude model and porn. And worse of all people who were so convinced they were right, when they were doing all they could afford to do, and the rest of the world was wrong, created instead of the best thing to hit porn, created the worse.

Yes you can now tell me I'm wrong. Doesn't change the fact online porn is on a downward slope and know one has a clue how to apply the brakes or even thinking of it. Just trying to pick up more speed by supporting the their nemesis. Pay Tubes for ad space.

Maybe the demise of of online porn will make a more read book than one on how to shoot porn, very soon.