Every news organization and website in the world besides redstate, worldnetdaily and faux news.

oddly, back then, in the time before the crisis, deficits actually did matter.

The time to spend money like a drunken father is when theres a crisis to solve, not when you wnat to have a big party and a few fake wars.

But we overspent for pleasure - now when we need it it's not so easy.

But, there is still available to us the cheapest money to borrow and spend any of us have ever seen in our lifetime.

Your command of the facts and ability to fashion a coherent argument to support your position is clearly on display as usual. :winkwink:

There is a terrible irony in all this.

Suppose the fox-controlled republicans are able to exploit obama's uncletomisn and win in 2012. Seems unlikely given their candidates, a pathetic bunch of idiots and no-idea fanatics, but lets say it happens.

The republicans will then immediately do the only logical thing, which is to borrow the cheapest money the world has ever seen and spend it as fast as possible. Trillions of it.

The democrats, who actually care about the country, and are unwilling to hold the people hostage, will have to go along. (well, their corporate masters and donors will make them go along - the passive dem pols are a bunch of fucking traitors, the lot of them.)

This will basically all be the fault of the obamanuts - who kept saying "give him time, he'll start to fight any day now.".

ironic.

It will be funny tho, to watch all the fox followers shut their little parrot yaps about deficits.

We could take bets on what the fox parrots will be told to do next by murdoch and ailes... They won't be allowed to talk about deficits.

The point is,that no one knows the numbers. The next point is that not just FOX news believes that this administration has buried the country in record debt. I only posted 2 quick links from the left. So the national perception is that this administration has added 4 trillion to the national debt.

I have over 2 decades of experience running a business. I know most if not all of the accounting tricks. I also know that you and thedoc don't know what the absolute real numbers are. Neither do I or 12clicks.

You called me a tea party member. That is incorrect. I am not religeous. I am not happy about working for the government until May every year and anyone that says they are I would question their mental status.

Try reading back a few posts.... and that claim works two ways.

Also, are you saying that you can simply add up the budget and get how much Obama spent? Because I'll laugh at your ass too....

Oh boo hoo hoo, you aren't happy about paying taxes, isn't that just so sad.

That's just immature petulance. Nobody likes to pay taxes, but we like living in a society that is rich.

This anti-tax bullshit is just another unimtelligent, unthinking, childish dogma that your side is using to distort the national conversation and attempt to seize power again - and when you do your kind will spend just like before, and pig out at the trough just like before.

It's empty rhetoric. Your kind won't ever refuse to take the benefits of taxes. You will always start your wars and hand out that pork. You know people are selfish and can be manipulated thru their selfishness, and you do so with naked ambition.

Not that my pointing out the immaturity will change anything.

I want your kind to seize power again. But don't think you fool anybody with this anti-tax nonsense. It's sophmoric.

Presumably you know who Bruce Bartlett is.

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/20...unlucky-ducky/

after that long read ... AMEN! right to the money! you nail it :2 cents::warning

LOL, NPR did a brilliant job... let's add up the difference AND they totally ignored the real war costs, truly, lol..... I don't even need to read the cbs one. And yes, I find it VERY funny that the number 4 trillion is repeated through the brainwashed masses without a second thought... no worries, I find it equally sad as well.

I'm not here to impress anyone, I post here for pure sure self entertainment value.

Where am I in the world? Not sure what the statement means exactly, but I live in Arizona.


I know the numbers aren't 4 trillion or 3.5 trillion, and I never claimed to know them exactly... However I know the range, I also told you where you could find information on it as well, I've posted it about 15 times on this forum, now I just laugh at the request... what can I do, most of you (not saying you) just ignore it and keep on the same war path..

Truly, I can only laugh at this point.

Nailed what?

Free markets don't exist, have never existed, and the odds are microscopic that they ever will exist.

It makes just as much sense to talk about how the green cheese of the moon could solve world hunger.

Have you been to the moon to prove it's not true? :1orglaugh

When you say my kind,you mean the people who cover the costs that the majority of the population takes for granted? I could move my businesses to Mexico and put many many more dollars into my pocket. What would a couple of hundred more unemployed Americans mean to anyone?

Yet, I stay in Wis. one of the highest taxed states in the nation and do the right thing. My company pays 70% of our employees health insurance. We contribute to their 401ks,we give them free dental and life insurance. We have been fortunate,and have done well and are once again paying out to the emplyees in a profit sharing plan.

What I say to your kind is you all talk a good fight, but never do you deliver the goods.
Talk is cheap. Cover a six figure payroll every week and make damn sure the government gets there share every week then come talk to me. Small business didn't get handouts. We took risks and worked harder.

you fucking leftys make me laugh.

None of you have a clue why the tea party happened. look at the timeline. Tea party started to become politically relevant the exact moment deficits went from 3-400 billion to 1.4 trillion & beyond, approximately early 2009. There was a tea party-like entity before that, mostly ron paul dead enders. The deficit was not wide enough, the debt not big enough, to antagonize a revolt inside the republican party.

Thats what happened when the wall street bailouts started. the conservatives went bezerk at the bailouts & the explosion in the deficit. This event radicalized the conservatives into the tea party, on the basis that spending is lavishly out of control...the govt spends 42% of its total budget with debt. The national debt, as an entity, has become as large as the entire economy & is growing a lot faster then it. So Bill8 saying deficit spending doesnt matter? LOL.

tea party is like a cancer...something that revolts inside a body, is created by an unhealthy imbalance in that body. Exactly like cheeseburgers lead to cancer, so does deficit spending. Just like chris christie is addicted to cheesburgers, democrats (& the old guard repubs) are addicted to spending, & antagonized the tea partys radicalism.

be assured, bill8, that if the tea party gets into power, they will not pig out at the trough. they, like abortion activists, are a 1 issue entity. That issue is spending.

Please people, have fun debating this stuff. stop using such hate. both parties eat at the trough of the elite & have warped the world to funnel all the wealth to the ecclestone sisters. Tea party should cave on taxes, dems should cave on spending, both parties should put voters in front of lobby money. Will it happen? no. so carry on blaming just the tea party & repubs for all the problems. its entertaining.

While I don't think you're one of those people.....

However thinking you pay for everyone else is kinda pathetic... everything you have, ever done, ever will do, was paid for by past generations of people that paid a hell of a lot more of our money into taxes than any of us today.

You could move your business to Mexico and live in Wis? Yeah.... have fun in that shit hole.

Btw, no reason to pull the big dicks out, while 200 staff is nice, you're no different than the guy with 1 employee and no money left over. At that, it's kinda dick to say come talk to you after they do six figures a week... that's like saying come talk to me when you finally reach my sales level, it's just dick... even though its correct.

Statistically, Republican controlled congress and Presidents have spent far more than Democrats. It's been posted here, many, many, many times...

And no, I don't care which has done it more, just pointing it for you, it's an fyi only.

that being historically correct, you are referring to the other side of the tea party...the bob dole/george bush republicans. Dick cheney is in that mix. The politicians from that era are losing power. Witness how eric cantor basically vetoed john boners effort to compromise with obama. The republican brand is now associated with the failures of the Bush administration, so everyone who wants power in the party now affiliates themselves to the tea party idealogy.

mmmmm, roasted chicken...

http://scaryreasoner.files.wordpress...ed_chicken.jpg

Which of the elected "tea party" members have actually cut spending?

Your kind is the republican voter. And the kind of person who uses a releatively immature form of anti-tax rhetoric, while taking advantage of all the things all our taxes provide. Your kind, the republican voters, want to keep yours, and take everyone elses too, without paying for it, while you are at it.

You know how I can determine your anti-tax rhetoric is immature? You never clearly state what you want to cut. You state no policy for the low tax starved government you want to see.

If you want to man up and say what the fuck you want to cut so you dont have to pay taxes, go ahead.

Dude, I've owned dozens of business in my time. I started out in the construction industry, owned between 5 and 7 different companies, depending on how you wnat to classify ownership and companies. Then moved into computer services for small businesses, and did that for a decade. Then moved into porn, and have done that for 12 years and going. Your talk about how I don't know about running businesses is just more lazy rhetoric.

I hated paying fucking taxes like fire, and still do. But I'm not a fucking baby about it, and I'm not going to pretend I don't get benefits from the taxes I pay.

Look, I don't mind that you hate the hahahahahahas and spics and poor shits. I personally don't know many and if you think you can fuck them go ahead. I don't care that much that you hate the old farts - my parents get the medicare and social security, but they also own teh family farm outright, they should be okay, and besides they will be dead soon.

I don't care who you hate, ultimately - just don't think you can spin out this wahwah boohoo anti-tax bullshit and have anybody who has really thought about it take you seriously.

I'm not a lefty in any sense you would understand that word. If the republicans weren't antiscience, and were talking about creating the 21st century economy, I'd happily vote for them. That's not going to happen because you republican voters have decided to be religious fanatics and economic dolts. I despise the dems because they lied about starting work on the 21st century economy - but at the moment they are a better bet for eventually starting to create the new economy. But I will drop them the second somebody who isn't a corporate asslicker comes along.

The only thing I really care about is science, intelligence, and the new economy. I don't care who you hate, and you are welcome to kill anybody you like, as long as you create the new economy.

I love guys who barely have a pot to piss in talking about how much their betters should pay in taxes.

its so funny watching the uneducated blame Bush for deficits while HE was president but explain that obama's deficits aren't his.:1orglaugh

i would retort that the threats of default & govt shutdowns each time a spending bill comes up, & the creation of the supercommittee, are all the consequence of the tea party votes in the house.

what i say to dems is this. We see the tea party vision for medicare. its to "de-entitle" it, make it a voucher & leave seniors to the profiteering of the monopolistic health insurers. What is the dem alternative. The status quo is financially unsustainable. Only the dems can make the hard choices to reduce benefits while maintaining the entitlement is available to all seniors.

2012 is going to be a referendum on whether the public is more afraid of the deficit, or losing entitlement benefits.

it is funny to see how all the well to do business men did it on their own...im talking big corps not small fry porn moguls...btw...so keep your panties on everyone.

Where they live and grew up, the schools they went to, public or private, the roads they drive on, the sidewalks they used to walk to school. the safety level in going to a bank machine without fearing to be kidnapped. Rapid access to some of the best healthcare in the world, genetic engineering them their own damn cold heart to replace when it finally shrivels up....none of these things mentioned helped them at all.

Of course the fact that the people they hire in their home country are educated, and know better then to stick their hands in a dangerous machine(usually) didnt help them either.
yep...these proud men, went out into the wilderness, and carved out their own empire

everyone stand back and clap for them.

they have apparently paid back enough.
time to move your business out of country and slash costs.

Kudos to you minte for not moving...i am sure the quality of your work wouldn't change if you were in mexico ;)

I was thinking more a the local level, the districts they're over. While I'm sure someone has cut spending... you would think all of them would be echoing at the local level what they plan on doing at the federal level. By them not doing that... it kinda shows they're full of shit.

I didn't know the tea party did the super committee, I thought Obama came up with that completely stupid, unconstitutional, sub-congress.

Medicare was perfectly fine before all the States invested the money into the markets and lost all of the money in the 08 crash. Well of course "now" it's a problem.

Vouchers are extremely bad ideas... how about some real logic, regulate the medical industry like every other fucking country in the world! Bam, problems solved! Yep, pills should not cost $300 here and $6 for the exact same thing in Mexico, profit is fine, but come on - it's killing our Country now!

Entitlement programs are paid for.... just get the damn politicians to leave the the hell alone and they would be perfectly fine.

sums up that most facebook users are morons nicely, like people in general. Stupid idiots only ramble about what he said about dreaming about another recession, completely missing the huge picture about how the banks rule the world and not the puppets they vote on. Christ the guy even gave a tip for the people how to act when shit hits the fan. Truth scares the sheep and makes them turn on the one telling it.

Yes, exactly! This is an interesting study in mass psychology. People do not want to hear the truth even if it helps them. They do not want to admit they have been living in a warped reality because they have too much time and effort working/existing in the one presented by the media.

the so-called trading expert and analyst.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/e...-a-trader.html

In the interview Mr Rastani described himself as an independent trader. Elsewhere he claims he's an "investment speaker". Instead of operating from a plush office in Canary Wharf Mr Rastani works and lives with his partner Anita Eader in a £200,000 semi in Bexleyheath, south London. The house, complete with a mortgage from Royal Bank of Scotland, belongs to her not him.

He is a business owner, a 99pc shareholder in public speaking venture Santoro Projects. Its most recent accounts show cash in the bank of £985. After four years trading net assets are £10,048 - in the red.

How a man who has never been authorised by the Financial Services Authority and has no discernible history working for a City institution ended up being interviewed by the BBC remains a mystery.

"They approached me," he told The Telegraph. "I'm an attention seeker. That is the main reason I speak. That is the reason I agreed to go on the BBC. Trading is a like a hobby. It is not a business. I am a talker. I talk a lot. I love the whole idea of public speaking."

Are you talking to yourself again? No, are YOU talking to yourself again?

everyone else got the very same opportunity. The "well to do businessman" then went above and beyond the rest of the lemmings and risked his capital to build a business that created jobs for the lemmings who think earning a living is standing in a line for a job created by someone else.

I don't think I pay for everything and didn't say I did. I said I am part of the group of US citizens that pay for the majority of the things that most in the US enjoys.

I could move my business to Mars and run it from Wisconsin. Technology has made it quite easy to make important fluid decisions no matter where I am.

I also didn't say do 6 figures a week. I said cover the payroll which is 6 figures a week.
Sales are obviously more than payroll.

And when you have experienced the same things in life I have then we might have something in common. The difference is significant. These words we discuss on a BBS are far more than words for me. I have to deal with the consequences of the governments actions on a real day to day basis.

You read about tax relief. Have you ever gone through an unannounced OSHA visit? Another form of tax for business. Our last OSHA visit cost us $5,750. for two items. An airhose that had the wrong nozzle and an electrical box that had knockouts.

How about a DNR permit. For our recent addition we had less than 1/2 an acre of land that fell into the wetlands category because of indigenous plant life. Not standing water. The fees so far including mitigation have been over $20,000. Then there is an impact fee for simply hooking up to the water main for the plants sprinkler system. That is 22,000.
These are all taxes on business that no one reads about on Politco. Yet they do exist.
We pay annual fees to at least 6 different state and federal agencies.

Should I go on?

I understood that it was payroll and you would make more than that. I didn't say you pay for everything, it says everyone. After that I did say "everything you have, ever done, ever will do, was paid for by past generations of people" anyway....

I don't deal with OSHA, but I've spent $3 million dollars fighting the tax man over $10 million, they got $60k, and it cost us $3 million. Ever had to pay your way into Country before? Yeah, talk about fees, regs, rules, money.. yeah.

Edit: I think it was less than 3m... but not a shit ton or anything, we spent 4 total across 3 lawsuits, the tax one was huge either way, but I think the other one (not related to anything we're talking about) was the bigger one, then one small one, which.... was taken all the way to Supreme Court of Canada, we won.

We all have unique experiences, fees, fines, permits, etc to put up with, depending on the business we do, this is the cost of doing business.

I love big dick contests though, we can keep going if you like.

You're a silly whiner who appears to have difficulty reading and even more difficulty writing.

I know little about your personal situation but you talk like a complete fraud. All bluster and aggression with never any substance or thoughtfullness.

And whenever you get confused you resort to a pointless adhominem. The last refuge of the man who has run out of actual arguments.

No, I'm not rich, I don't desire to pursue more money than I need. I own land and a house paid off completely with porn money, have a cute smart wife, nice car, money in the bank and in retirement accounts and boxes of gold and silver, enough tools and assets to make storage a hassle, I'm living the american dream. Humbly enough, but I'm secure and have few worries.

So blow me, dickless author of lame oneliners.

Osha is one of the reasons I got out of construction. On the other hand I have a foster brother who is blind because a hydraulic hose broke off and hit him in the face. He's collected something like millions in social security and disability because his employer was negligent and he was working in a no-sue state.

So, which is better - your 5k or his millions?

Why are you bitching about taxes in one breath, and then about regulations in the other - why not be consistent and be politically active about regulations, and do your best to get them looked at with a closer eye by politicians and media?

In a libertarian society you could go ahead and fuck up your wetlands - and then be sued by everybody who had an interest downstream. Which is cheaper - your payment of fees, or dozens or hundreds of lawsuits?

If you want to be able to destroy your wetlands, then support population control. We can't keep packing more and more people into the same space, and pretending that when you damage something in that space that it has no effect on the crowding neighbors.