WP Framework Guru's? genesis, thesis etc

[iMind]

Can someone please explain the point of these fucking frameworks?
I've been working with one as per client request and I just about want to pull my eyes out.

it's supposed to make everything simple, but all it really does IMO is make your usual easy WP into a fucking nightmare to work with.

Can someone explain to me what the fuck this thing is supposed to accomplish?

It's sold under the premise of easy customization and SEO, but it makes it a COMPLETE BITCH to customize, unless you call adding a header to their stupid child themes "customization" and the SEO could be better with a professionally coded theme, no need for this thing at all.

So why do people even use this shit?

Can someone explain the pro's of using this over a custom coded template? Is this just a system for people that have no clue at all what they're doing?

[AdultKing]

Thesis is a great framework, it's very popular and used by a wide variety of people.

I use FlexSqueeze alot on sites and find it saves time and structures sites needing squeeze pages.

Many of the frameworks have varying uses, what precisely is your issue with the framework you are using ?

[Highest Def]

Break through the beginning learning curve of Thesis and you will love it. Once you get the hang of hooks it's all gravy.

[iMind]

Originally Posted by AdultKing

what precisely is your issue with the framework you are using ?

The issue is, I don't know why anyone would want to use it.

I can do everything I wanna do without a framework, so why use it ?

[AdultKing]

Frameworks provide structure to hang your pretty design over.

[georgeyw]

Originally Posted by AdultKing

Frameworks provide structure to hang your pretty design over.

If only that were true.

More like a framework turns 10 characters into 2 files and 10 lines of code

[iMind]

Originally Posted by AdultKing

Frameworks provide structure to hang your pretty design over.

Guys.... I'm asking what the benefit of a framework is, over a custom coded CSS/XHTML template ( by a good coder )

I can hang my pretty design over super clean valid code real easy,
or I can fuck around with genesis for hours and accomplish the same thing, and have LESS control in the end.

[AdultKing]

The benefit of using a framework is reducing the number of plugins you need, allowing you to switch design as simply as swapping your child theme, providing your core functionality and separating that from the prettiness. It is a way to separate the designer from the logic, which in my experience is almost always necessary.

[Mr Pheer]

Thesis is fuckin sexy and google seems to love it when you learn how to work it right. I've been using it for a couple of years and always been pleased with it. I've set up over a dozen new non-adult sites with it in the past few weeks and google is rewarding me with mostly top-5 listings.

But on-site SEO can only take you so far.

[AdultKing]

Originally Posted by Mr Pheer

Thesis is fuckin sexy and google seems to love it when you learn how to work it right. I've been using it for a couple of years and always been pleased with it. I've set up over a dozen new non-adult sites with it in the past few weeks and google is rewarding me with mostly top-5 listings.

Correct, Thesis is a solid performer and there is no doubt why it is so popular. Likewise FlexSqueeze which is like a dream for internet marketers. Genesis is popular too however I prefer Thesis over Genesis.

You can change your look and feel just by swapping child themes and the structure of your website remains the same.

[iMind]

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say it serves no purpose except to have something to sell to noobs then, because there is no way this is more functional or customizable than WP alone...

I almost choked on this one "allowing you to switch design as simply as swapping your child theme"

How is that any different than a WP theme?

I'm convinced this thing is fucking useless, and have yet to read a single line in this thread that says otherwise LOL (no offence guys, I know you seem to like it, but the arguments for it could all be said for plain wordpress aswell...)

all I wanna know is the advantages OVER NORMAL wordpress install

So far we've had:

- Separates theme and logic - not really cause it makes it a cunt to do anything custom so you're into the code anyway.

- You can change the theme really easy - well you can do that with WP, and I'd say about 100x easier with plain WP.

- Then we have SEO, which again is total nonsense, perhaps to someone that can't code, but to a coder with any knowledge they can code clean, great SEO pages.

So are these basically aimed at clients that are buying premade templates, and a framework so they can fuck around with it?

[Mr Pheer]

Originally Posted by AdultKing

Correct, Thesis is a solid performer and there is no doubt why it is so popular. Likewise FlexSqueeze which is like a dream for internet marketers. Genesis is popular too however I prefer Thesis over Genesis.

You can change your look and feel just by swapping child themes and the structure of your website remains the same.

Flexsqueeze looks pretty good, thank for the link

[AdultKing]

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say it serves no purpose except to have something to sell to noobs then, because there is no way this is more functional or customizable than WP alone...

So your alternative would be to code a complete admin panel for look and feel customization for your client ? Or you'd prefer to charge them every time they want to add something like breadcrumbs ?

[TheSenator]

Good old fashion notepad and tables for me...

[Mr Pheer]

Originally Posted by iMind

I can do everything I wanna do without a framework, so why use it ?

I think you answered your own question. Some like it, some dont... if you dont need it then why bother with it.

[georgeyw]

Originally Posted by AdultKing

So your alternative would be to code a complete admin panel for look and feel customization for your client ? Or you'd prefer to charge them every time they want to add something like breadcrumbs ?

I think you're off on a different train of thought - he's talking about genesis and wp.

[AdultKing]

Originally Posted by georgeyw

I think you're off on a different train of thought - he's talking about genesis and wp.

I understand that. The point I am making is that all these Frameworks support a uniform way of making modifications to the structure of your site without needing to change the design, presuming the person coding the child theme has properly coded it.

[iMind]

Originally Posted by AdultKing

So your alternative would be to code a complete admin panel for look and feel customization for your client ? Or you'd prefer to charge them every time they want to add something like breadcrumbs ?

You're assuming my design would be incomplete...
My alternative is to code a normal freakin wordpress theme, widgetize it, use the navigation features and they have FULL control just like genesis

Only with half the code, and likely half the server stress aswell.

I have a feeling you don't even know why you use these things LOL, you haven't given me even a hint as to why use this over stock WP.

I could see using it if you want a generic 1, 2 or 3 column design, but what about getting a little fancier? the frameworks magic disappears right there IMO.

[iMind]

Originally Posted by AdultKing

I understand that. The point I am making is that all these Frameworks support a uniform way of making modifications to the structure of your site without needing to change the design, presuming the person coding the child theme has properly coded it.

Again, same for stock wordpress.

This is the issue I'm having.
WHY use it?

[iMind]

Originally Posted by Mr Pheer

I think you answered your own question. Some like it, some dont... if you dont need it then why bother with it.

I think you just did really, along with the info in this thread, proves there's no reason to use it other than sheer preference.

No real benefits from what I can see... it's a preference thing.

[AdultKing]

One major advantage of a framework is that all your sites are uniformly able to be modified structurally regardless of the design.

If you have 100 wordpress sites and 100 different child themes your parent is always the same and adding / removing / modifying things is uniform throughout all of them sharing the one framework.

[georgeyw]

Originally Posted by AdultKing

I understand that. The point I am making is that all these Frameworks support a uniform way of making modifications to the structure of your site without needing to change the design, presuming the person coding the child theme has properly coded it.

I still don't see how this is any sort of advantage over a standard wordpress install / theme.

Adding genesis (as an example framework) makes every part of modifying the design painful.

ie want to change the text for 'older posts' ?

Well open up functions.php

add in a hook / filter / function and you're done

Standard wp theme no framework

open up index file and change that actual text.

[iMind]

Originally Posted by AdultKing

One major advantage of a framework is that all your sites are uniformly able to be modified structurally regardless of the design.

If you have 100 wordpress sites and 100 different child themes your parent is always the same and adding / removing / modifying things is uniform throughout all of them sharing the one framework.

I'll take your word for it on that one.. because if a client ever asked for it to be deployed across 100 sites, I'd just shoot myself in the fucking face and never find out if what you say is true.

[fris]

i dont use any of those.