The problem isn't some of the entitlement programs. It is abuse of these entitlement programs. Here is the reality. We don't hear about all the people who are illegitimately disabled and living on disability and food stamps/government subsidized housing. Many of these people had to jump through a million hoops and slash through a lot of red tape just to get enough to barely survive on. What we do hear about is guys like Rochhard's friend who is basically fine, but cashing in. We hear about the people who scam the system or understand the loopholes in the system so they can get get paid and aren't really sick. I have seen it myself. I used to work with a woman who quit her job because she was able to get herself, her son, her son's newborn baby and her son's girlfriend (baby mamma) all on disability. Between the four of them they were getting 6K a month plus food stamps and housing help and all of them were fine. I actually called and reported them, but I don't know if it did any good. I was once in a grocery story with a woman behind me who had a kid that was about 3 and was pregnant. she was talking to her friend about how she was going to move in a few months because when the baby came the government was going to be giving her a "raise" and helping her get a bigger place. She had no shame and felt like raising her family was all she had to do to "earn" that money.

So those who abuse the system cause those who run the system to add more layers of red tape in an effort to stop the abuse which makes it harder for those who actually need the money to get it. This abuse has caused the system to become bloated and corrupt. (I'm speaking here of Welfare/foodstamps/disability etc. Actual social security and medicare are a different beast).

If there was a better way to stop the abuse the system would work great and would not cost us that much and people likely wouldn't be complaining about it.

In this case he has "water on the brain" - a very serious living condition. And he wasn't expected to live this long - twenty some odd years with it. But on a day to day basis it doesn't effect him at all.

He bugs me all the time because he hasn't worked in twenty years and he's utterly fucking bored. I wish I could make $100k by doing nothing.

But they don't say this about things like defense. The U.S. defense budget is more than the next 27 biggest countries combined and 26 of those 27 are our allies. China is the only one on that list that is not our ally. We could cut our military budget in half and still spend more than most of those countries combined.

While I do agree that we need to look at everything, we need to look the closest at the things that cost us the most because that is where the big savings is going to come from.

No, it wouldn't. Because all of the crack heads still have to fucking eat. So they'll still spend money at the same shops.

The only difference is they'll have to sell their fucking Xbox and Wii to buy food.

hahahahha!!!

There you go, drug testing. You want welfare, you get drug tested. The moment you fail you loose all future rights to welfare at all levels - and go straight to jail. Why pay them $1300 a to do nothing when you can feed them bread and water for $50 a month.

Nah we cant cut that shit, but we sure need to reform it. Even Ron Paul who wants to get rid of the programs says we cant and it should be the last thing cut.

I believe there are even 5th generation welfare.

I've often said that if you want welfare you should be required to be drug tested and be on birth control.

I am a huge fan of our military, but the amount of money we spend on it is staggering. Do we really need this? Our biggest threat is a handful of terrorists and China, which doesn't even have a blue water navy. I think we can cut back here a lot.

This is so fucking obvious that it isn't even funny. What's staggering is that no one in DC on either side has ever thought of it. Idiots.

Fitty evictions:pimp

They passed this in Florida, EXCEPT
If you fail this drug test, you can elect another family member to receive your benifits.

I am sure somehow this drug testing will cost 100X more than normal drug testing.

Stupid law, since they just have grandma or brother or sister collect the benifits if they test dirty.

ORRRRRR blow some shit up stateside, pin it to some sand digger and start a whole movement and gain another pawn in the game. This shit is out of control on every level and the government is to not be trusted, but blamed for the shit stack that has spewed from the hill

Is either side talking about Military cuts???
I mean, isn't the % of taxes that might get raised on the wealthy a small Sliver?

I am thinking some loop holes on oil companies might be a chunk of change.

Yep Military needs cleaned out also. Just don't Cut funding, Because I know the bad programs will still get by and good things will get hurt.

Same here. I have a ton of love and respect for anyone in our military, but we just don't need it all. Jets that cost 200 million are not going to stop terrorist and like you say, China has no real Navy. I don't think China would ever be dumb enough to start a war anyway, they want to take us over by buying us up, not blowing us up.

you do understand that it costs around $30,000 to house a prisoner for a year..

again this is a problem with our society and trying to give everyone rights they may or may not be entitled to when it comes to the general consensus..

also realize that since the US started privatizing prisons, the prison population has gone up quite a bit..

there have been rumors for many years that the laws have become more strict in an effort to jail more individuals and therefore make more money for the corporations that run these private prisons..

in any case, how does one decide that a guy who was busted for selling pot should receive the same prison conditions as a guy who was convicted of murder...



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Fuck that. Feed them nothing but bread and water. Maybe give them some butter on Thanksgiving. I'm so not kidding.

I'm not for conviction, just no more hand out. Fuck it you want to get high, so do I, just cut the checks that keep this going...on the backs of those that can afford and based on the current setup, afford others the same. Tax the rich feed the poor used to work back in like robins Hood, but today, is taxing it to a whole never level.

they have rights! :1orglaugh

A lot of that has to do with the war on drugs. Many prisons have become privatized, but the war on drugs has put tens of thousands behind bars and done nothing to curb drug use or availability. Perhaps that war on drugs has been encouraged by those who stand to gain from it, but I think it has been more a coincidence and culmination of different things including different politicians running as the "tough on crime" guy and therefore when they get elected they put into law things that put more people in jail.

look, i agree..

prison should not be a fun place..

after serving a 3-6 month sentence, a person should never want to go back to prison..

but, we as a society, allow prisoners to have rights and although an argument can be made that prisoners have no rights, there needs to be a balance between humane treatment of prisoners and making prison an uncomfortable place to be...

in most state prisons, the prisoners actually run the show..

how fucked up is that?

there is no reason why a guy sentenced to prison should have to worry about getting beaten or raped..

if i ran a prison, you would be locked down in a solo cell for 24 hours a day...

you would get a bologna sandwich 3 times a day just like joe arpio serves his inmates..

there would be no threat of physical violence and no rape..

i would give each cell access to online classes to educate yourself...

if you didnt want to do that, you could just sit there and watch the paint peel...

but, too many bleeding heart pansies in this country to see the bigger picture and make that happen...



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Better yet - if they fail a drug test, they pay a fine, have to pay the money back, AND have to do community service.

No, they don't. Go to prison and you loose all of your rights.

The Constitution protects them from "cruel and unusual punishment" - which means we don't tie up car batteries to their balls or pull out their finger nails. Put them in a cold dark dank cell and feed them three meals a day - and that's it. That's where their rights end. They do not have the right to books, tv, or going outside. Not healthy? Don't care.

Allow me to play hippie liberal tree hugging devil's advocate.

If this is the system we are going to adopt, we had better be prepared to deal with this people when they come out. Sure, prison should not be a fun place, I completely agree. I sickens me to see guys serving 10 years getting their law degrees while in prison. However, if we treat people like animals and keep them in a cold dark, damp place and feed them shit they will become animals and when they are released they will be so fucked up in the head that they will have almost no chance of rejoining society as a functional member. You can't just take the kinds from Lord of the Flies off the island and expect them to assimilate back into society like nothing happened.

I would advocate several changes instead. Take away all leisure activities that don't have to do with these people learning a skill that will help them get a job when they get released. If they are illiterate, teach them to read and write and get them a GED. If they have a diploma and can read and write let them learn a basic trade that can eventually lead to them getting a decent job down the road. When they are then released from prison make them serve their halfway house time and any probation time in a city that is far away from where they were arrested. If they got busted in Chicago, move their ass to Houston or Phoenix or wherever. This way they don't have the same contacts and the same friends and everyone that they hung with and got in trouble with before around and influencing them. Give them some kind of a job counselor and and therapist so that they have a decent shot at getting a job, keeping it and getting out of the prison mentality so they can stay out.

To me the idea is simple. you either have to make the system so that when someone goes to jail for a crime that is not a life sentence they can come out and have the best possible chance to rejoin society in a positive way, or you have to prepare yourself to deal with them for the rest of their lives.

I agree.

Teach them a trade. Teach them to read, get them a GED, etc. But no television. No tennis courts, no basketball courts, etc. No playing checkers.

But let's face reality. No one is going to hire a convicted felon for any decent job.

You make it sound like everyone in prison is subhuman scum. Think about this for a minute. What if a little kid had ran out in front of you one of those times in the past when you were driving your Mustang 140 MPH on public roads? (just trying to think of a crime most people have committed, like speeding)

Because of the speed you were driving, you get charged with vehicular manslaughter and go to prison for 4 years. Do you think you would deserve that treatment for your crime, or would you wish to be treated like a human so you could become a productive person when you got out?

Damn there are some truely cold hearted, hypocritical, cynical mother fuckers on this thread. 3 or 4 griping about knowing people who break the law. Well if you are really that worried about it fucking report them. But then some of you admit you too are breaking the law. Damn.

I'm a veteran and i know many brothers who are medically discharged and damn sure aren't getting 75K a year and i know the PO doesn't pay out anywhere near 75k a year either. You guys just making shit up to see who can be the coldest mother fucker?

Look at what Peru and Greece have done. They implemented the same dumb ass programs that you right wingers want the US to implement and their economies went down the fucking shit hole.

You guys go ahead and think that cutting help to the poor will solve all your problems. You will probably be the first ones getting butt fucked as the mobs take all your shit.

one of my best employees was a guy convicted of methamphetamine production..

i kept him on a short leash, but he proved himself over time..

he begged me for the job and i was skeptical, but i decided to give him a chance...

in the end, i trusted him with 100's of thousands of dollars and he never let me down..

although he might be the exception to the rule, i disagree that convicted felon is out of the question..





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Just cut to the fucking chase already America:
Every man for himself, fuck everyone else.

Look what this pig is purchasing, bags of french fries, white bread, microwave dinners, cases of soft drinks. REALLY?

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could you imagine? russia and china would split this muther fucker up like cutting a pot pie in half. :1orglaugh

of all the people that use these programs, probably 15-20% legitimately need it, the rest are just scum :2 cents:

500 million for a boat? WTF planet are you from?

I can build a barge for $10k that would take at LEAST 1000 people. Take it out 8 miles and dump it, then tow the barge back for another load.

How much would a dump truck type system cost?

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That would be more expensive. I was thinking more of a flame thrower at one end, and a really slippery slope at the other.

Damn, you've thought this out :thumbsup

And why would these people get on this death barge? no, no, this has to be like a cruise ship so they think they are a getting a government sponsors cruise or something.