Finally their solution to the debt problem.. More government!

[onwebcam]

I knew we could count on the fuckwits to come through with something great!

'Super Congress': Debt Ceiling Negotiators Aim To Create New Legislative Body

WASHINGTON -- Debt ceiling negotiators think they've hit on a solution to address the debt ceiling impasse and the public's unwillingness to let go of benefits such as Medicare and Social Security that have been earned over a lifetime of work: Create a new Congress.

This "Super Congress," composed of members of both chambers and both parties, isn't mentioned anywhere in the Constitution, but would be granted extraordinary new powers. Under a plan put forth by Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) and his counterpart Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.), legislation to lift the debt ceiling would be accompanied by the creation of a 12-member panel made up of 12 lawmakers -- six from each chamber and six from each party.

Legislation approved by the Super Congress -- which some on Capitol Hill are calling the "super committee" -- would then be fast-tracked through both chambers, where it couldn't be amended by simple, regular lawmakers, who'd have the ability only to cast an up or down vote. With the weight of both leaderships behind it, a product originated by the Super Congress would have a strong chance of moving through the little Congress and quickly becoming law. A Super Congress would be less accountable than the system that exists today, and would find it easier to strip the public of popular benefits. Negotiators are currently considering cutting the mortgage deduction and tax credits for retirement savings, for instance, extremely popular policies that would be difficult to slice up using the traditional legislative process.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_907887.html

[Tempest]

They're all a bunch of morons...

[sperbonzo]

Very very DANGEROUS morons

[Bill8]

so, explain why you think its a bad idea.

the premise, as described, is to empower a group of senators to cut social security and medicare.

The excerpt doesn;t make clear why they would be protected from the election consequences, but says they will somehow, so they dont have to be afraid of getting voted out for taking away the old peoples money.

isn't that what you guys want?

I mean, it sounds cowardly to me, somhow protecting a group of politicians so they can cut out the old folks, but heym, those old fuckers brought it on themselves, fuck every one of them I say.

[onwebcam]

Originally Posted by Bill8

so, explain why you think its a bad idea.

the premise, as described, is to empower a group of senators to cut social security and medicare.

The excerpt doesn;t make clear why they would be protected from the election consequences, but says they will somehow, so they dont have to be afraid of getting voted out for taking away the old peoples money.

isn't that what you guys want?

I mean, it sounds cowardly to me, somhow protecting a group of politicians so they can cut out the old folks, but heym, those old fuckers brought it on themselves, fuck every one of them I say.

Who are you guys?

Who do you think will get picked for this "Super Congress" those that will work for the people or work for the special interest bankers? This is all outside of the FACT it's unconstitutional but these people wiped their ass with it a long time ago so no real need in bringing it up.

As far as social security is concerned those people paid into it for years. Giving the bankers a way out serves only them not you or I. It damn sure isn't going to help the economy. In fact it would be disastrous.

The solution is to end the bankers control.. End the fed..

[Bill8]

Originally Posted by onwebcam

Who are you guys?

Who do you think will get picked for this "Super Congress" those that will work for the people or work for the special interest bankers? This is all outside of the FACT it's unconstitutional but these people wiped their ass with it a long time ago.

Well, yeah, by definition whoever goes on it is gonna be the biggest crook selected out of a pack of crooks.

Just not really getting what your objection is tho.

Maybe if we approached thsi another way - what do you think they should do instead?

[onwebcam]

Originally Posted by Bill8

Well, yeah, by definition whoever goes on it is gonna be the biggest crook selected out of a pack of crooks.

Just not really getting what your objection is tho.

Maybe if we approached thsi another way - what do you think they should do instead?

The solution is to end the bankers control.. End the fed..

[Bill8]

Originally Posted by onwebcam

The solution is to end the bankers control.. End the fed..

well you realize thats not on the table right?

so you are arguing from a position so far off the realm of real politics that really, you dont care all that much about something like a supercomittee to cut medicare.

I wasn't really expecting the "end teh fed" line of argument.

This debt chicken is pretty crazy. I hope nobody blinks. But that pussy obama will blink.

[onwebcam]

Originally Posted by Bill8

well you realize thats not on the table right?

so you are arguing from a position so far off the realm of real politics that really, you dont care all that much about something like a supercomittee to cut medicare.

I wasn't really expecting the "end teh fed" line of argument.

This debt chicken is pretty crazy. I hope nobody blinks. But that pussy obama will blink.

What they are proposing is just a temporary fix. If they start this committee and start ramming through legislation, cutting social services and not actually fixing the debt problem you can damn well bet there will be people camped out on the White House lawn before long. You can see a change of peoples attitude right here on this very forum. People who a year or so ago calling those of us against the Fed kooks and loons are now seeing before their very eyes what a bunch of crooks we really do have running things in DC. It's really game over for them. They know it and this "committee" is a hail mary in passing legislation none of us want with the hopes they will never see the blowback. So far they've gotten away with their thievery. It's only going to take one wrong move before they haved pushed to far and we'll be seeing a Greece in the streets of the US.

[Bill8]

Originally Posted by onwebcam

What they are proposing is just a temporary fix. If they start this committee and start ramming through legislation, cutting social services and not actually fixing the debt problem you can damn well bet there will be people camped out on the White House lawn before long. You can see a change of peoples attitude right here on this very forum. People who a year or so ago calling those of us against the Fed kooks and loons are now seeing before their very eyes what a bunch of crooks we really do have running things in DC. It's really game over for them. They know it and this "committee" is a hail mary in passing legislation none of us want with the hopes they will never see the blowback. So far they've gotten away with their thievery. It's only going to take one wrong move before they haved pushed to far and we'll be seeing a Greece in the streets of the US.

It's democracy, so of course it's a tempoirary fix.

Thats why they want to create this orwellian supercommittee, so they can escape the short term punishment of the ballot box.

Of course it's a hail mary - I thought that was clearly the point. Create a special group of politicians who can cut medicare without getting immediately voted out next election.

That way the plutocrats can get what they want while protecting their means of control, the politicians they buy into office.

But, don't you wnat to cut medicare? This acheives that end.

[onwebcam]

Originally Posted by Bill8

It's democracy, so of course it's a tempoirary fix.

Thats why they want to create this orwellian supercommittee, so they can escape the short term punishment of the ballot box.

Of course it's a hail mary - I thought that was clearly the point. Create a special group of politicians who can cut medicare without getting immediately voted out next election.

That way the plutocrats can get what they want while protecting their means of control, the politicians they buy into office.

But, don't you wnat to cut medicare? This acheives that end.

I think cutting military, overall government waste/jobs, and banker interest is much more important than cutting out social services. People have paid into those programs all their life. Both of my parents are on SSD. One a stage 3 cancer survivor. He was already screwed by the 100+ year old company he was soon to retire from. The last thing he needs is getting fucked there as well. I'm already having enough trouble trying to figure out how to keep their heads above water now and they are getting a check. Cut out their check and healthcare I may flip my damn self.

[raymor]

It has worked well before. The model is the base closing commission after Reagan won the cold war. (Quoting Gorbachev "after Reagan beat us ...).

The full congress still votes on it on it and three president can still sign it or veto it. The bipartisian commission just makes a recommendation. Everyone agreed that with the soviet threat gone, we should close many bases. No lawmaker could vote to close the base in their own state or district, though, due to politics. So a bipartisian commission was formed to make recommendations about which bases to close. Congress decided they would vote to either approve the recommendation or not, without adding a bunch of pork and crap. It worked well.

Certainly it can't work any WORSE than what's going on now, where the president and the democrats won't even purpose any plan. All they're done is said "no" to republican proposals on how to move forward. If the president can't provided the leadership to at least put together a proposal that can be voted on, I'm all for a bipartisian group of senators providing that leadership and crafting a plan that the congress can vote on and the president can sign or not. If the president won't lead, someone needs to, and then let Obama sign it or veto it, one way or the other.

[Bill8]

Originally Posted by onwebcam

I think cutting military, overall government waste/jobs, and banker interest is much more important than cutting out social services..

Oh. I didn't realize you were progressive dem.

Hence my confusion.

Technically, they say just cutting military and discretionary spending won't do it. Not enough, not after the 4 trillion we spent (or committed to spend) on the wars.

The old folks gotta take it in the neck.

Which is fair you know. They voted for them wars in the first place.

[Bill8]

Originally Posted by raymor

It has worked well before. The model is the base closing commission after Reagan won the cold war. (Quoting Gorbachev "after Reagan beat us ...).

The full congress still votes on it on it and three president can still sign it or veto it. The bipartisian commission just makes a recommendation. Everyone agreed that with the soviet threat gone, we should close many bases. No lawmaker could vote to close the base in their own state or district, though, due to politics. So a bipartisian commission was formed to make recommendations about which bases to close. Congress decided they would vote to either approve the recommendation or not, without adding a bunch of pork and crap. It worked well.

Certainly it can't work any WORSE than what's going on now, where the president and the democrats won't even purpose any plan. All they're done is said "no" to republican proposals on how to move forward. If the president can't provided the leadership to at least put together a proposal that can be voted on, I'm all for a bipartisian group of senators providing that leadership and crafting a plan that the congress can vote on and the president can sign or not. If the president won't lead, someone needs to, and then let Obama sign it or veto it, one way or the other.

See, OWC, this is the position I had expected you to take, complete with the pure line of murdoch misrepresentation.

So you can understand my confusion.

The whole supercommittee thing is exactly what the plutocrats want and it's perfect for the republicans.

The whole thing is theatre, intended to create a shock doctrine style aquiesence in the same old folks that are gonna get the chop.

Pretty tactics. No matter what, the american people get what they deserve.

[onwebcam]

Originally Posted by Bill8

Oh. I didn't realize you were progressive dem.

Hence my confusion.

Technically, they say just cutting military and discretionary spending won't do it. Not enough, not after the 4 trillion we spent (or committed to spend) on the wars.

The old folks gotta take it in the neck.

Which is fair you know. They voted for them wars in the first place.

It's not the debt that is killing us. It's the 6% fixed interest on the debt that is. While those same bankers go the the window and get trillions at 0%.

I'm very much libertarian. I just know that we can't cut out social services without completely killing the economy. If you think it's just going to be a few old folks not getting a check you're sadly mistaken. Another huge wave of foreclosures will come taking the RE prices even further down. I can tell you 2 additional houses will be going back to the bank along with the millions of others soon after because I wont be paying the notes and they are on the fence of walking away as it is themselves. Just not worth paying on those homes when they can take what they have left buy a small 1br condo and forget about it.

[Bill8]

Originally Posted by onwebcam

It's not the debt that is killing us. It's the 6% fixed interest on the debt that is. While those same bankers go the the window and get trillions at 0%.

I'm very much libertarian. I just know that we can't cut out social services without completely killing the economy. If you think it's just going to be a few old folks not getting a check you're sadly mistaken. Another huge wave of foreclosures will come taking the RE prices even further down. I can tell you 2 additional houses will be going back to the bank along with the millions of others soon after because I wont be paying the notes and they are on the fence of walking away as it is themselves. Just not worth paying on those homes when they can take what they have left buy a small 1br condo and forget about it.

Dude, it's going to be disaster. No matter what they do, it's going to be an economic mire.

Thats why I hope that either that pussy obama doesn't blink and we get trapped under that debt ceiling, OR the republicans and the democrats throw the old folks and boomers under the under the bus.

Both would be cool - first we lose our credit rating, THEN we chop the seniors.

If you wnat something like repudiating the fed, maybe restoring the greenback, you need a state of political desperation, a revolution; so you should also be enjoying the devils choice facing the country.

It's going to be a hell of a ride.

[onwebcam]

I've been looking forward to the crash and burn for awhile. I do think we need a restart for sure. At any given moment I can hop on the boat and be down to less than $500 a month in expenses.

I've been working mostly with my mom over the past year and a half trying to convince her that things aren't going to get better before they get a lot worse and she's just now starting to come around. I was able to talk her into selling one home but still have at least one more to go. Maybe two. She's been wanting to walk away from the other rental house but I've been trying to sell it with no luck in the market. The main problem is the renters won't allow anyone in to see the inside. It will take 4-5 months to evict them and we have to worry about them trashing the place if we do. May just have to suck that one up and let her walk away. If worse came to worse I'd move into the other get a few roommates and tell her to take her remaining cash and buy a small condo.

My dad will be self-sufficient for at least a year or two since his is paid for. All really pisses me off knowing they spent all those years working hard to get where they are only to watch it all disappear in a matter of years.

[Tjeezers]

Banks rule this world. They are driving us over the cliffs in high speed.
What the end game will be, not sure, but pretty sure we dont get any better off it

[seeandsee]

they will do it for cash, new debt, and that is just a word...

[DWB]

I love how everyone has been conditioned. It has come down to, do you want to take it in the ass with lube, or take it in the ass without lube?

Either way, you're still getting a dick in your ass.

Now we debate which ass fucking is best and one side will even claim a victory right before they bend over to get shagged.

Amazing.