Originally Posted by Jesus H Christ (Post 18289982)

I totally agree this will happen overnight. The next morning their will be a run for the banks just to find out all cash is long gone and this will cause a domino effect and all currency will not be worth the paper it's printed on.

You can be sitting on all the gold, silver, and diamonds you want, but you'd gladly trade all of that to have a 3oz lead bullet pointed away from you and your family. The best investment to buy now would be a gun, medication, and find a clean water source.

Originally Posted by Jesus H Christ (Post 18289982)

You can be sitting on all the gold, silver, and diamonds you want, but you'd gladly trade all of that to have a 3oz lead bullet pointed away from you and your family. The best investment to buy now would be a gun, medication, and find a clean water source.

Originally Posted by wig (Post 18289950)

What was the point of the history of metals as money then? I'm sure Agent 488 is aware of that.



.

Originally Posted by Agent 488 (Post 18290005)

hint: after a quick dissolution the social body starts to self-organize.

Originally Posted by Jesus H Christ (Post 18289982)

You can be sitting on all the gold, silver, and diamonds you want, but you'd gladly trade all of that to have a 3oz lead bullet pointed away from you and your family. The best investment to buy now would be a gun, medication, and find a clean water source.

Originally Posted by Jesus H Christ (Post 18289982)

The best investment to buy now would be a gun, medication, and find a clean water source.

Originally Posted by Nikki_Licks (Post 18289997)

OK. But lets say the person selling or trading has everything you mention, except the items I mentioned, do you think he will be interested in trading? I do.

Originally Posted by Agent 488 (Post 18289616)

precious metals have no inherent value. can't eat gold, grow gold, build a house from gold.

if the economy did collapse sitting on your little pile will look silly.

Originally Posted by The Demon (Post 18290010)

The fact that they were used and therefore had monetary value. Also, I never advocated a pure gold standard, only a fractional reserve commodity standard.

Originally Posted by dyna mo (Post 18290045)

from what i've read and seen, a 72 hour survival kit is the best investment.

Originally Posted by Ethersync (Post 18290089)

6,000 years of history says you are wrong :2 cents:

Originally Posted by ******* (Post 18289797)

The market in metals still has not hit the "irrational buying frenzy" stage. :2 cents::2 cents::2 cents:

Originally Posted by J. Falcon (Post 18290094)

So you can live 3 more days that the rest?

Originally Posted by Ethersync (Post 18290107)

Not even close. When gold haters start thinking they need some gold then it will probably be a good time to sell...

Originally Posted by Ethersync (Post 18290107)

Not even close. When gold haters start thinking they need some gold then it will probably be a good time to sell...

Originally Posted by wig (Post 18289939)

You are missing the point entirely.

No one is going to trade for gold (or diamonds) under your scenario for exactly the reason Agent 488 stated.

If someone has chickens, I have corn, Agent 488 has water, Nikki_Licks has ammunition and TheDemon has gold, the first four of us are going to barter but TheDemon is going to have a hard time finding someone to accept his gold until such time that there is enough order that a monetary vehicle becomes efficient.

Originally Posted by wig (Post 18289876)

Worrying about this scenario should only be for those attired with tin foil hats.

Originally Posted by kane (Post 18290125)

I hate to break it to people who are stock piling weapons and ammo, but there will be no collapse of modern society in the US.

Originally Posted by kane (Post 18290125)

I hate to break it to people who are stock piling weapons and ammo, but there will be no collapse of modern society in the US. At worst we could have a day or two of unrest if we suffered a major power outage or something like that, but if the recession showed anything it showed that once and for all those with the money rule and they have far too much invested in and far to much riding on this country to just let it collapse.

Originally Posted by DWB (Post 18290146)

This is simply not true. Gold was bought and sold during the Argentina collapse (and probably in every other collapse). Black markets sprung up and they were buying specifically gold in large quantities. It was also used for general trading. They even bought, sold, and traded gold jewelry.

Will your neighbor trade for it? Probably not. But can you sell it and trade it at the markets? If history repeats itself you will be able to.

But a smart person isn't only going to have gold. They are going to have real life items that people will want and need.




So said the people in:

China
Germany
Russia
Argentina
The United States Of America
... and so on.

All have fallen on their ass before. No one has to have a tin foil hat on to know that it can and probably will happen again. It's only a matter of when.

Shit happens. History doesn't lie and always repeats itself.

Originally Posted by dyna mo (Post 18290045)

from what i've read and seen, a 72 hour survival kit is the best investment.

Originally Posted by Caligari (Post 18290025)

that is the hollywood scenario, the real scenario in these times is far more bleak. you need only to read the news over the past few years.

the social body may self organize, but will do so in primitive tribal groups who largely understand politics like insects. in other words they don't.

just think in terms of these casey anthony mobs and imagine them without a leash.

Originally Posted by wig (Post 18290208)

The point I was making, which you seem to have not appreciated, is that if the US experiences a hyperinflation like Argentina did, the version of "collapse" that we'll be dealing with will not be the same version of "collapse" that Argentina or Zimbabwe went through.

The world didn't miss a beat then. On the other hand, if you apply the same economics to the US as the worlds reserve currency issuer, in a global economy and where systemic risk is attached to the world, you end up with a scenario where gold doesn't mean shit because as was said, you can't eat it, sleep under it, etc.

We are talking past each other because we've widened the distance between the definitions of "collapse".

Originally Posted by Jesus H Christ (Post 18290173)

They've already done many studies on this and it depends on the type of scenario. In the past when natural disasters or a public upraising happens the government was able to take an offensive approach to fix the problem due to the problem being secular.

If the economy collapses this will cause chaos in mass and the government can't possibly control this and will take the defensive posture to insure they can govern after the smoke clears. Meaning, you're on your own and look how long it took for them to restore order in NO-Katrina and LA- Riots. Now imagine this nationwide and it will take at least a month for some type or order to be restored.

Originally Posted by DWB (Post 18290214)

Yes, I agree all of this hinges on what the definition of what a "collapse" would be.

I honestly have no idea how it will play out, but I don't want to be left holding my dick if the worst happens. Doesn't take much money to be a little prepared for the worst and just hope it never happens.

Originally Posted by Jesus H Christ (Post 18290239)

The truth is I want to be wrong, but why not plan for the worst and hope for the best?

Originally Posted by DWB (Post 18290187)

Depends on the level of collapse and what part of the USA you're standing in.

If everyone wakes up tomorrow and the USD is worthless and they can't buy food, good luck with your theory of peace and love. It will probably turn into chaos pretty quick until the local authorities and National Guard step in. Americans are generally pussies these days so I doubt if Joe and Clara from Indiana are going to get out of line, but in the cities where you already have a high crime rate, I wouldn't want to be there.

Originally Posted by dyna mo (Post 18290268)

no, i hear ya. and i try and think that way too, but in all honesty, i simply cannot envision a complete breakdown such that i'll need to shoot em up. i think the only way that could happen is by asteroid/meteor or a yosemite caldera full eruption kinda thing. and if that's the case, i'll prolly be one of the 1/2 burned up peeps and not have any hands/arms to shoot with anyway eh. lol

Originally Posted by dyna mo (Post 18290216)

i guess i can see the difference, perhaps an economic collapse would require a unique set of skills and resources but statistically, an full econ collapse has little chance of happening eh..

statistically, collapse will be regional, like the tsunami in japan. or haiti.

Originally Posted by DWB (Post 18290278)

There was a financial collapse of Asia in 1997 so we have a decent idea of what to expect here should it ripple this way.

Originally Posted by DWB (Post 18290209)

What do you NEED every day?

Food
Clean Water
Medicine
Batteries
Matches / Lighter
Fuel
Toilet Paper


Stock up on what you can't do without.

It's also cheaper to buy in bulk, so do so and rotate your stored food and save some money along the way.

Originally Posted by wig (Post 18290261)

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that those worried about guns/water/MRE's etc are only focused on that because they have no real wealth to deal with

Originally Posted by kane (Post 18290272)

The best thing anyone can do is have enough food and water on hand to last them 48 hours and just wait it out. But that is common sense no matter what. There can be weather/natural events that can knock out power for days or cause problems where there is no civil unrest, but having a flashlight and some extra food on hand could come in very handy.

Originally Posted by Emil (Post 18290304)

Toilet paper? Have you ever whiped your ass with leaves and moss? It works. :winkwink:

Originally Posted by DWB (Post 18290350)

Go read up on how Robert Kiyosaki is preparing. That guy is crazy rich, and crazy prepared.

Originally Posted by DWB (Post 18290350)

7 days is a good starting point. My power has been out for longer than 48 hours before.

Originally Posted by kane (Post 18290401)

When I was a kid we had a nasty storm that knocked the power out to the entire town I lived in (very small town) for about 4 days. We were lucky because it was winter and cold but our house had an earth stove as its primary source of heat so we were warm. After a day the local grocery store opened up for business. He had generators to keep his freezers and coolers working and he had a few lights, but mostly when you walked in they handed yo a flashlight and let you shop. At the end they added it up via calculator and you either paid via cash or check this was the 1980's so there weren't really debit cards yet. It was interesting to see how the town kind of came together.

However, if that same thing happened in a big city that already has a lot of crime I could see chaos.

Originally Posted by Jesus H Christ (Post 18290344)

It might turn to this over a period of time and we were very close to a catastrophic world event in 2008. Do you actually think a prison guard, jailer, Judge, prosecutor, or police will put their life at risk in hopes the system will pay them down the road?

Although Katrina was a secular disaster, 60% of the police walked off the job after the first 4 days and it took 10 days to organize the national guard. This will be a nationwide problem and the NG only numbers 500k and there is no way they can protect 310 million Americans.

Does this mean it's road warrior time and shit like that? - No, because people are generally good by nature, but when there is a lack of food, medication, or basic public service they turn to animals. Plus there is a certain segment of the society who want to see total chaos and will instigate score settling.

In short, it's not about the collapse of our financial system, but trust in our government or anyone that might spew the same rhetoric.

Originally Posted by wig (Post 18289598)

Why limit it to just those two currencies? I wish people would stop repeating your statement as if to single out the US Dollar or Euro.

Originally Posted by Jesus H Christ (Post 18290423)

When it comes to voter turnout IMO it has nothing to do with they "can't be bothered" type thing. It has everything to with it does not really matter due to our 2 party system. When you have to raise a 1/2 a billion to run, is there really a point to go out and vote? - ..or maybe you're right, they can't be bothered.

A catastrophic financial event (that almost happened in 2008) is much worse because the average American lives cheque to cheque PLUS 70 million Americans get federal or State assistance to help them survive. Now imagine this assistance is all gone tomorrow?

Originally Posted by Jesus H Christ (Post 18290388)

I'd normally agree with you, but not after 2008. We were very close to a full market collapse and if you were someone with real wealth, how couldn't you insure personal security for you/family in the worse case scenario after that? Again, hope for the best, but plan for the worst because we are far from "out of the woods" on this problem.

Originally Posted by jalami (Post 18290430)

I single them out as the primary currencies that gold is priced and traded in. But yes, every paper currency is slowly swirling down the drain.

Originally Posted by Mike Honcho (Post 18289024)

I always get my investment advice from GFY forums too.

Originally Posted by Jesus H Christ (Post 18290960)

I'll always take the worst case scenario in a discussion because the only direction is up. What is fact, we as a country just can't keep printing money to cover all problems because we are truly broke.

Anyway, the point is there is no possible way in our lifetime we'd be able to pay off the debt. The economy is stagnate, there is no new job growth, unemployment is at it highest in decades, there is a gluten of empty homes, and the markets have not recovered to the 97 level. So instead of the government making cutbacks, they print more money to insure temporary confidence.

We need leaders right now to make tough decisions, but they'd rather argue on who's getting the bigger shrimp at the buffet table and ignore the fact, they're sailing on the titanic or maybe not? We are not too big to fail because sooner or later they'll have to be cuts because we can't keep printing money.

Our government won't explain a solution for the biggest crisis here and now. As of Jan 1, 10,000 Baby-boomers a day are retiring and will continue for the next 20 years. Most Americans haven't a clue on how big this problem truly is. Meaning, in the next 10 years the entire population of Canada comparatively, will be receiving SSI and subsidized health benefits.

Besides the fact, millions of these retirees lost their 401's in 2008 we don't even have a solid plan and can't afford to pay them, accept by printing more money. One side says, we will NOT cut spending as the other side says, we will not raise taxes. Solution, raise the debt limit, and print more money!

Wig is one of the brightest guys on this board financially, but I am leaning towards DWB opinion. If we don't do something right now and cutback on all social programs, spending, and increase taxes, we'll wake up to a market crash. Why? we keep printing money causing a weaker dollar that erodes investor confidence.

You see it's not just about how much gold or oil you control, it's always been about confidence in the system. People feel afraid, they won't buy, this causes more inflation and unemployment. Currently, the government is producing a false confidence when in fact, more people are discovering we are in serious trouble.

IMO, we are buying time. Why? Green technology at best, is a decade away and there is no new market innovations. Right now I believe we are at a standoff with EU in hopes the Euro fails. Matter of fact, I believe we are banking on it because if they split, there will be lot's of new markets to exploit because no one trusts the Chinese.

If we fail, we are worse then broke and fail to see why States like Texas, Arizona, or any other red state would not consider succession. This means the EU won.

Originally Posted by Agent 488 (Post 18289616)

precious metals have no inherent value. can't eat gold, grow gold, build a house from gold.

if the economy did collapse sitting on your little pile will look silly.

Originally Posted by facialfreak (Post 18291098)

OMFG!!! ARE YOU FOR REAL?!?! :1orglaugh

Everybody listen to agent448, and put all your life savings into your favorite FIAT CURRENCY!!

Just remember that fiat currencies are BACKED BY YOUR COUNTRY'S DEBT!!!!!

Let's raise the debt ceiling some more.... turn on those printing presses!! WOOO HOOOO!!!

:thumbsup:thumbsup

Originally Posted by kane (Post 18291054)

I just don't think it will turn into a shooting revolution mad max kind of thing a lot of people are preparing for. It will look a lot like the depression with soup lines and families living in tents in the park.

Originally Posted by DWB (Post 18291138)

Soup lines and tent parks is exactly what will happen.