agreed. It is not currency (a monetary unit).

The fact that it is not currency and not legal tender does not mean it is not money. Why do people who buy gold buy gold? Because they want to start making their own jewelry? they buy it for its exchange value.

nothing is preventing a merchant from taking payment in gold, wheat, oil whatever. nothing illegal about that.

Most people would consider "money" to be legal tender. Meaning I can take this "money" and exchange it for goods and services. You can't do that with gold ergo it's not money.

Here's a correct definition from an unbiased source: http://www.economist.com/research/ec...letter=M#money

Wives used to be money as well. Huge rocks, too. Tobacco. Fur. And landmarks. I could go on forever. The essence of money is to be found in the following function: unit of account.

I do not see how wives, huge rocks, tobacco, fur, landmarks, sea shells et cetera (or gold for that matter) functions as a unit of account today.

The only thing gold has in common with money is that it functions as a store of value, just like many other commodities. Gold is however extremely suitable for this purpose as it is highly fungible.

Gold dollar coins would only be used if the USD was still on the gold standard. In that case 1 USD gold coin would be worth 1 USD.

The use of gold was what prevented them from inflating the money supply. Even the Keynesians, monetarists, pro-central bankers etc all acknowledge this. That is why they don't want a gold standard (or even free competition of currency).

u-bob is right. woj you're still a smart mofo. no hate. :)

legal tender laws: the courts will not enforce contracts (debts etc) if the seller asks for gold (or silver or anything else) instead of legal tender.

so basically, you could draw up a contract: you sell you car to X in exchange for Y amount of gold. You and X both sign the contract. X takes possession of the car but then refuses to pay you your gold. The courts will rule in his favor.

There's also a few cases of the IRS going medieval on people's asses because they paid their employees in silver.

money still entails an asset. an asset can be traded just like currency. money is used as an asset and even in some form a currency.

when you talk about worth ie. assets, cash value etc are all included. gold is 100% money.

Go buy a TV at wal-mart with gold and tell us how that works out. Wal-mart accepts money don't they?

So if I walk into a wal-mart in LA with a bag full of Euros and they do not accept that, then that means Euros are not a form of money?

Best part is at the very end:

"Why don't banks store diamonds?"

"Uh...........well, it's tradition."

OMG

Gold, BTW, IS money. Want proof? Take your Gold coin, or Gold bracelet, to your beat-ass, broke-down neighbor who's been trying to sell his Jet Ski for eight months. Hand him the gold - he will hand you the Jet Ski.

(Oh - another "BTW" here: ANYTHING can be money. I give you a loaf of bread for six cucumbers. The bread = money. Or, bread. LOL)

Of course, another definition of "money" is that which the Government backs. So whatever, somebody fuck me, it's Saturday night.

Gold is not money, it can be used to trade for something of equal or greater value.
If you use the idea of gold=trade=money then EVERYTHING can be considered money.

You could trade a horse="money" trade a car="money" etc etc much as you would go in and trade gold...

yes gold is an asset, but so is your car, horse, house and so on.

money is the recognized currency of a given government. It is the only thing that can directly exchanged for itself wherein the value is automatically known and not perceived.

For example you could go in and exhange a gold bar for gold coins but you are not going to get the original value back, you will pay some kind of fee for the exchange based upon it's value at the time.

yes the dollar's value fluctuates but you are always getting the same amount back i.e. if you change a 100 dollar bill for 20 5 dollar bills its exactly the same.

Therefore gold itself a "precious metal" and not money, and currently a metal whose value has been grossly inflated and of which will be eventually corrected.

so you mean to tell me, i walk into walmart. i grab a manager. i hand him 1000 dollars worth of gold, i cant buy 1000 dollars worth of stuff?

you sure on this? something tells me with gold skyrocketing in price right now some form of agreement would be reached.

and with that same thought, so in a nutshell, what everyone in this thread is saying is that walmart decides what is money. god bless sam walton.

And most people would be wrong.

Seriously?

He warned everyone about the recession/depression we are in now well before it arrived. People called him crazy, but even though his message seemed to fall on deaf ears at first he stuck to his guns and was ultimately proven correct. Had people listened to his warnings and done what he said we would not have the economic problems we have right now.

He is the reason why so many people are against the Federal Reserve. He nearly pushed through a full audit of the Federal Reserve, but even though his specific bill did not pass large parts of it were used in the final bill that did pass forcing the Federal Reserve to become at least somewhat more transparent.

He's introduced millions to the Austrian School of Economics. This will be important when we are picking up the pieces of what's left from this sick neo-keynesian experiment we are all stuck in.

He is largely, if not entirely, responsible for the current "Liberty" movement happening in the US.

Serious question: If you were in his position, what would you do differently?

"Now what?" is up to us. Ron Paul isn't an comic book superhero that can single-handedly fix what ills us.

It's really easy to talk shit about people trying to make a difference when you are doing absolutely nothing of any significance with your life.

What are you doing to change things? Well?

You do realize that ~40 years ago most of the world was on a gold standard, right? To so confidently proclaim that we will never be on a gold standard again just shows your ignorance of history.

Fiat currencies all eventually die and when it happens again people will only trust a currency that has an intrinsic value (e.g. gold standard).

Here is a recent headline for you:

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/swi...k=MW_news_stmp

I would love to see what specific bills he did not vote on. My guess is that it's unconstitutional bullshit that was guaranteed to pass and he was going to vote no on anyways.

What would you have asked if you had his 5 minutes?

you mad that someone doesn't like your boy and backed up their opinion with facts, bro! :1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

talk shit about a career politician whose *impressive* record of politiking is simply being a pied piper yapping doom & gloom? lolz, there's about 10 ron pauls right here at gfy.

now what? exactly. ron paul is not a super hero and that's exactly my point. he's far from it in fact as his actual voting record proves. perhaps if he did his fucking job consistently and PARTIPATED in the job he is paid to do- vote on the issues, and not just go around hating on the fed and asking loaded questions about going back on the gold standard, which is about as far-fetched a plan as i've ever heard anyone with a higher education yap about, and i can even point out myself that there is NOTHING backing up the validity of such a plan in the 21st century.

and what have i done to change the process? well, 1st off, it is beyond idiotic to make this about me v. a CAREER POLITICIAN whose job it is to at least try and do the job he is paid for. but that just shows you are butt hurt because i think your boy is a fucking hypocrite career politician.


but since you have asked, i have done the most viable action i can think of to foster change- i assume responsibility for MYSELF and my actions going forward and i've created 2 mainstream businesses that provide value to individuals and a local community that have already helped people change their lives, do better and be more prepared for the 21st century. change will happen 1 person at a time, it won't be because we get rid of the fed or go back to a gold standard, i can assure you of that.

How are we going to solve our problem of too much debt by taking on even more debt? Please enlighten me on this...

Compromise on this issue is why we are as fucked as we are.

yeah, let's not have politicians that can actually be deal makers- meet in the middle & compromise on some issues to make a deal.

let's just have deal breakers that stubbornly hold on to their own view and refuse to budge, that will work. jeezzzz

And because he has money he's automatically suspect in your eyes? Are you seriously saying that he is rich because he's a corrupt politician and because he has been pocketing campaign contributions? Wow, you really are an idiot :2 cents:

Few things happen in politics without broad support. Nothing happens on the most politically charged issues without compromise. What is totally bizarre about Paultards is that they somehow think a president can somehow be a dictator and force his will on the house and senate. He can't. Thats not the system of government we have. He has to work with them. And he has to work with both parties as Obama is being continually forced to learn the hard way.

The problem is not "the president". The problem is a general tendency of government to spend too much as well as deficit spending.

There is a time for compromise and a time to take a stand on principle.

:thumbsup:thumbsup

He might. Would he still take the gold when it tanks? At one time, people would also trade houses for expensive goods, would they today? Doubtful, the value of houses is fluctuating too much and in many places houses have no value at all.

If gold was worth today what it was five years ago, would we be having this discussion? $1000 in cash five years ago is still worth somewhere around $1000, take away a little bit for inflation, sure. $1000 of gold five years ago is worth something completely different today and will be worth something completely different in five years from now, whereas $1000 in cash will still be in the same ballpark (minus financial Armageddon, which many of you seem to fear.)

Over and over in this thread I'm seeing people say that money only has value because a government says so. Okay, so why does gold have value? Could it be... supply and demand?

oh wow, calling me an idiot on gfy because i disagree with your view. i expected more from you, at least an intelligent reply.

but i am going to go easy on you today because it is sunday and i am in a good mood as i will be going to the beach shortly, so i will explain my reply.

i originally said

mr maxwell replied with
i relied with

i.e., for a career politician worth many millions of dollars ($5 million is/was leftover campaign money) voting against a pay raise is not an example of changing the system.

yeah... another glaring flaw in the argument of course is that gold has no fixed value. you can't buy a tv with something (even if everyone agrees its "money") when the value of that so called "money" is in flux or indeterminate at the time of purchase.

damn etherstnc, for a ron paul groupie, i'd a figured you would of already known he had $5million in leftover campaing dollars, but you are emotional right now. so, no worries.

another obvious flaw in the "is gold money" discussion and peoples bizarre insistance that you can walk into Wallmart and buy a tv with gold... is "why gold"? If you can argue that gold is money... then why isn't silver money? bronze? copper? platinum? diamonds? bags of rice? barrels of oil?

Some of you fucking geniuses seem to think a retail store is a commodities exchange.

some here are confusing barter with money as a medium of exchange

Well... gold "could be" a medium of exchange assuming that all parties to a sale agreed to it. Money can be anything. It can be a sea shell, or a rock or a piece of paper with a number on it or metal. however, arbitrarily proclaiming it to be a medium of exchange, which in the context of the discussion assumes you can purchase any and all goods and services just as you could with Dollars, is silly when its so clearly not the case.

ron paul is beyond a mere politician for a certain group of people. better to see him as a religious or cult figure to them. a gold standard messiah.

thus you might as well be arguing with a mormon at your door. will get just as far.

i've always wondered where the 15 trillion dollars in gold will come from.

What facts? You throw out ignorant comments of no substance at all. You say he should have done things different, but you apparently have no idea or opinion how.

More bullshit. He specifically has said what we are doing wrong, how to fix it and what will happen if we do not fix it.

Another part of his job, which you left out, is introducing legislation. Here are a list of bills he has introduced in 2011 alone:

He also returns to the Treasury usually around 6 figures each year that was unused from his congressional budget. I suppose he only does that because he's rich also?

From which "campaing"? Congressional? Because that money was moved to his Presidential campaign. Show me proof that he pocketed the money because that is what you have been implying.

The reason I am pissed is because you dodge questions, spit slander and worthless generalities and seem to think your understanding of economics is infallible. That you criticize Ron Paul for doing nothing is incredibly ironic when the fact is that the reason the country is as fucked as it is is because of people like you.

It would obviously require a revaluation of gold. It's not that complicated.

Who insisted this?

If you're in the Adult industry Ron Paul is your best friend.

umm what the fuck are you talking about? slander? look it up yourself, ron paul had/has $5 million in leftover campaign monies, i won't do your research for you, especially since you feel the need to attack me because i don't like your boy.

and i think my understanding of economics is infallible? please quote 1 single comment i've EVER made that supports that idiotic conclusion. in fact, i am on record here stating the exact opposite.

and now you are sooo butt hurt about my view that i am the reason the country is fucked? AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH fucking logical awesome, that's some power i have huh!

a more appropriate avatar for etherstnc
http://awesomelife.files.wordpress.c...if?w=400&h=404

yeah, let's change the price of gold from $1500/oz to $10,000/oz overnight- that's been proven to fix everything.

where's the proof that going back to a gold standard would be viable or more importantly a solution to anything?

where's the proof that abolishing the fed would accomplish anything?

not saying they would not work, just asking for any data. but i'll answer my own question. there ain't no proof. maybe ronnie is just keeping it in that bald head of his! come on ronnie, show us the proof!

reminder: according to statistics already posted in this thread, ron paul is considered to be in the bottom 10% of congressmen just based on his missed voting record alone.

wow, this guy needs to be president!

Not that complicated? You're talking about artificially reevaluating a global commodity based on the needs of the US. Not complicated?

Let's reevaluate the price on oil while we are at it.

We did it before.

the list of submitted bills only goes to prove that he thinks he is smarter than everyone else. want to let us know which ones off that massive list actually passed? how many even got to the floor for a vote?

Does your $1000 still allow you to buy the same amount of products and services as it did 5, 10 or 50 years ago?


Are you talking about $1000 of gold as in the original meaning of the word whereby 1 USD represents a fixed amount of gold? Probably not, since the USD is no longer backed by gold. The fluctuation in the price of gold you are describing is actually a result of the instability of the USD, the Euro etc.
The value of gold has essentially not changed over the past (let's say 10) years, yet its price expressed in USD has. This should tell you something about the USD.

for immediate release:

dear world,


hai guyz!

just a quick note to let all y'all know that we are updating our financial institutions and going back to the gold standard as our new econ guru ronnie paul says that will fix everythings. so please adjust your financial systems accordingly, update your financials to show the adjusted debt, and most importantly, also change the value of your gold since we are in charge and can dictate such things cause ronnie says so!

yay amerika!!1one.

The USD, the Euro etc also have no fixed value.

In an economic sense the USD, the Euro, gold, silver etc are just commodities.

A shopkeeper could express his prices in apples, lemons, dollars, gold, silver etc... It's the same principle for all of those things.

He could ask 5 apples in exchange for a product and he could ask 12 apples in exchange for another product etc...

Another shopkeeper could ask 100 grams of salt in exchange for 1 product and 200 grams in exchange for another.

If a shopkeeper (under free market conditions) were to accept gold in exchange for a product he would not price that product in "10 apples worth of gold", no he would express the price in grams or ounces or kilos of gold....

Originally that is what the dollar was. A way to express a certain amount of gold.

Now that the USD is no longer on the gold standard, the USD is no longer a way to express a certain amount of gold but just federal Reserve notes. Now it's just a commodity like any other and the same economic principles apply. Like for example the Law of supply and demand at a certain price.

If 1 unit of gold costs 10 USD than the price of that 1 unit of gold expressed in USD is 10. At the same time the price of 10 USD expressed in units of gold is 1.
If you increase the supply of a certain commodity its price will go down.
If you (or the government or the central bank) increase the supply of USDs than its price will go down. So in this example the price of USDs expressed in units of gold will go down. This means that to buy the same amount of units of gold after the price of USDs expressed in units of gold has gone down, you will have to pay more USDs to buy the same amount of units of gold.
This is what we are seeing on the gold markets. While small fluctuations can be attributed to the daily fluctuations in supply and demand, the huge rise in price (expressed in USD) is the direct result of a decrease in value of the USD as a result of the increase in supply of USDs.

No one needs to go back to the gold standard. What we need is the abolishment of legal tender laws (and similar regulations that force people to accept 1 specific currency) and to stop bailing out banks that are in a financial mess because of their own corrupt behavior.