interesting take on the 'new world order'

[Grapesoda]

We?re clearly moving to a Post-American world. This is a world that is not dominated by the United States but not dominated by anyone else yet either.

The 21st Century is up for grabs and how the United States does depends on how well it can marshal the key ingredients of economic and societal success.

In the 20th Century, the key ingredients were labor and capital.

In the 21st Century, the key ingredients will be ideas and energy.

Ideas will be critical because manufacturing has been commoditized. That means that anyone can make anything. The only thing that distinguishes someone today is if that person or organization has new ideas and innovations. We need to create a better mousetrap every week. We need to do something different and unique.

Energy will be critical simply because everybody is growing quickly and everyone needs a supply of energy. Countries that have figured out the energy puzzle are going to do better and better.

So who?s better suited for this new world?

In an odd way, China is best suited for the 20th Century. They have cheap labor and huge amounts of capital coming in. They can make whatever you want them to make. But they haven?t yet been able to move up the value chain. They haven?t been able to generate the big, new ideas.

Like the U.S., China also struggles with the issue of energy. China is a consumer, not a producer of energy.

But they are quickly getting very smart on the energy front. They are becoming the global leaders of clean tech - whether it is solar or wind.

They are also aggressively trying to move up the value chain. They are laying the foundations to compete in the 21st Century. They are building a great university system and they are working to get research labs in place.

In America?s case, we have all the ingredients to succeed in the 21st Century. We have the most innovative companies in the world such as Facebook, Apple and Google. We have the best universities in the world. We have a nexus between universities and research-oriented companies. We have the most dynamic capital markets in the world. We have an incredibly flexible, diverse society, which is also very much a part of our inherent societal innovation and dynamism.

But what we don?t have is a political system that can harness all of this and execute.

You see this with regard to energy policy. America has no energy policy and hasn?t had one for thirty years. It?s not just that. We also don?t have an immigration policy. We don?t have a policy toward jobs and growth. We don?t have a policy toward the budget deficit.

Instead, we have an absurd political paralysis in Washington where everyone is more concerned with scoring points and maintaining their viability with their most extreme members rather than just coming together and solving problems.

There used to be a model in which you became famous as a lawmaker by making deals - by reaching out to the other side and doing some compromising, which you have to do because not everyone agrees with you, and moving the issue forward. Now the way you get famous and powerful in Congress is by not making a deal, by being a deal breaker rather than a deal maker.

You can see this in the Republican Party right now where the energy is all in saying ?No, there?s no deal we could possibly accept.?

If ?No? is where we end up as a country, we could have all the innovation and ideas and dynamism in the world and we?d still will have a society that is crumbling.

Look at California as an example. California has Silicon Valley and Hollywood. It has incredible private sector talent and creativity.

But after a while if every road is crumbling, every state university collapsing and every educational institution under-funded, people will no longer want to come there. They will no longer think that it is the place where they can make their American dream come true. In this case, having Steve Jobs and Mark Zuckerberg there will probably not be enough.


http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn....ury/?hpt=hp_c1

[Mutt]

term limits for all political offices - get fucking rid of career politicians. that's step one.

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by Mutt

term limits for all political offices - get fucking rid of career politicians. that's step one.

more like 'paid positions' like a CEO...

[dyna mo]

i read his book that is titled the same when it came out 2+ years ago. the BIG problem i have with his views is his need to make EVERYTHING a zero sum game, a winner and a loser- period. especially re: political parties where his veiws are skewed strongly against repubs.

that's not how the 21st century will play out, we will have to come together and work together, anyone who thinks china is dominate or poised to be, is assuming too much. imo..

[Barefootsies]

Canadian Illuminati.
















/sarcasm

[Caligari]

"So who’s better suited for this new world?
In an odd way, China is best suited for the 20th Century. They have cheap labor and huge amounts of capital coming in."

Best suited for the brave new world of slave labor coming to a country near you.

The idea of getting to the lowest common denominator is the worst path you could possibly take, this happening while inflation is spiraling out of control in many countries is beyond belief.

[dyna mo]

the whole who's got the cheapest labor thing will be a moot point going forward. wages in china are going up, businesses in u.s. are utilizing labor at home more, fuel (transportation) prices are going up as well.

china is tied to the rest of the world, they are not an exception nor do they stand alone.

[iamtam]

does bm stand for bowel movement?

[bronco67]

China is all of the things you mentioned, except the fact that they don't innovate anything, and they make shit products. They might look good on paper, but as the years go on, the world will begin to realize that China has no true, long lasting value.

[dyna mo]

let's not forget that china is cooking the books too, doubtful anyone outside china has factual chinese econmic data

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by Mutt

term limits for all political offices - get fucking rid of career politicians. that's step one.

I'm all for this. This is a huge part of the problem. Our politicians should represent us, the people who voted for them, and not their party. Too long in office and it becomes too much of a game for them.

[Caligari]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

the whole who's got the cheapest labor thing will be a moot point going forward. wages in china are going up, businesses in u.s. are utilizing labor at home more, fuel (transportation) prices are going up as well.

china is tied to the rest of the world, they are not an exception nor do they stand alone.

yep, wages are going up alright.

for example in building the new san francisco bridge in china the workers fought for and got a raise....from 9 dollars a day to 12 dollars a day.

only one problem. 12 dollars a day according to average expenses in china (in and out of cities) does not make anywhere near a living wage.

so it's still the cheapest labor ploy, and it will only get bigger.

because of all the lame trade agreements in the u.s. for instance, for years now both china and india have been pushing high tech computer jobs while interest in computer tech has been dwindling in the u.s. for obvious reasons i.e. when you have an outsourced programmer in india working for 20 bucks a day...

this will have a profound effect on the u.s. tech sector in years to come.

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by Caligari

yep, wages are going up alright.

for example in building the new san francisco bridge in china the workers fought for and got a raise....from 9 dollars a day to 12 dollars a day.

only one problem. 12 dollars a day according to average expenses in china (in and out of cities) does not make anywhere near a living wage.

so it's still the cheapest labor ploy, and it will only get bigger.

because of all the lame trade agreements in the u.s. for instance, for years now both china and india have been pushing high tech computer jobs while interest in computer tech has been dwindling in the u.s. for obvious reasons i.e. when you have an outsourced programmer in india working for 20 bucks a day...

this will have a profound effect on the u.s. tech sector in years to come.

time will tell, i have an optimistic view of the future.

[iamtam]

Originally Posted by Caligari

yep, wages are going up alright.

for example in building the new san francisco bridge in china the workers fought for and got a raise....from 9 dollars a day to 12 dollars a day.

only one problem. 12 dollars a day according to average expenses in china (in and out of cities) does not make anywhere near a living wage.

so it's still the cheapest labor ploy, and it will only get bigger.

because of all the lame trade agreements in the u.s. for instance, for years now both china and india have been pushing high tech computer jobs while interest in computer tech has been dwindling in the u.s. for obvious reasons i.e. when you have an outsourced programmer in india working for 20 bucks a day...

this will have a profound effect on the u.s. tech sector in years to come.

actually, 12 dollars a day isnt horrible in china. that is about 80 rmb a day, work 6 days, 480 a week, times 4.2, almost 2000rmb a month. that would be for workers who are housed in dorms and live on site without cost. not bad net money for that country.

[moeloubani]

It has nothing to do with the money.

American workers are lazy assholes who love to complain, work slow, take tons of breaks, and find ways to get paid without working.

Chinese workers on the other hand take pride in what they do and work fast, hard, take little breaks and are extremely efficient.

[Caligari]

Originally Posted by iamtam

actually, 12 dollars a day isnt horrible in china. that is about 80 rmb a day, work 6 days, 480 a week, times 4.2, almost 2000rmb a month. that would be for workers who are housed in dorms and live on site without cost. not bad net money for that country.

it is very low. you have to consider the workers are still spending x amount on necessities because guaranteed they aren't getting everything for free.

then they are maybe sending whats left to a family, and outside of the company dorms in the real world 12 dollars even in china is still pretty much slave labor.

look up cost of living china - inside and outside of major cities, you will be surprised.

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by moeloubani

It has nothing to do with the money.

American workers are lazy assholes who love to complain, work slow, take tons of breaks, and find ways to get paid without working.

Chinese workers on the other hand take pride in what they do and work fast, hard, take little breaks and are extremely efficient.

based on the most recent data, u.s. workers are the most productive of any nation.

we might be lazy assholes who love to complain, work slow, take tons of breaks, and find ways to get paid without working but clearly based on the #s, we don't do so as much of that as other countries and we still get the job done.

[iamtam]

Originally Posted by Caligari

it is very low. you have to consider the workers are still spending x amount on necessities because guaranteed they aren't getting everything for free.

then they are maybe sending whats left to a family, and outside of the company dorms in the real world 12 dollars even in china is still pretty much slave labor.

look up cost of living china - inside and outside of major cities, you will be surprised.

re-read my comments. they are living in on site dorms, meals in, working hard, not much time for outside work, and 25,000 rmb a year for a migrant worker from the countryside is a ton of money. perhaps you need to go spend some time in china to understand.

[PornoStar69]

no shit sherlock

[dyna mo]

Sample EF English teacher monthly budget
To give you an idea of how an average EF English teacher in China spends his or her salary, here is a sample monthly budget:
Gross Income (Salary) : 12,350 RMB
Rent : 3500 RMB
Utilities (electricity, gas, water) : 250 RMB
Phone & Internet : 300 RMB
Food : 1500 RMB
Insurance : 295 RMB
Remaining Disposable Income : 6,505 RMB

[dyna mo]

Under the system, the average basic living cost in urban areas is 169.6 yuan (US$22.3) per person each month and that in rural areas is 71.4 yuan (US$9.39).

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2...nt_6036695.htm

is this about right??

[GatorB]

So what if the US no longer is a super power in the future? Is that bad? Canada never has been one. How many terrorist acts happen there? How many people in the world hate Canadians?

[Agent 488]

pampered lazy chinese workers have it too easy.

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by GatorB

So what if the US no longer is a super power in the future? Is that bad? Canada never has been one. How many terrorist acts happen there? How many people in the world hate Canadians?

i see no need in being leader of the free world, i think the canadians or french should take that spot.

[INever]

Originally Posted by Rochard

I'm all for this. This is a huge part of the problem. Our politicians should represent us, the people who voted for them, and not their party. Too long in office and it becomes too much of a game for them.

Term limits don't work. In California there's term limits and everyone spends time jockeying for their next position. There's no political solution anyway.

[Mutt]

Originally Posted by moeloubani

It has nothing to do with the money.

American workers are lazy assholes who love to complain, work slow, take tons of breaks, and find ways to get paid without working.

Chinese workers on the other hand take pride in what they do and work fast, hard, take little breaks and are extremely efficient.

and tell us about your work ethic moe

[Agent 488]

i'd rather lazy american's rule over us than asian slave robots.

[Mutt]

Originally Posted by GatorB

So what if the US no longer is a super power in the future? Is that bad? Canada never has been one. How many terrorist acts happen there? How many people in the world hate Canadians?

wait until you see the world without a superpower and what happens when there's a vacuum of power

[Agent 488]

Originally Posted by Mutt

wait until you see the world without a superpower and what happens when there's a vacuum of power

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multilateralism

[GatorB]

Originally Posted by Mutt

wait until you see the world without a superpower and what happens when there's a vacuum of power

Please. We are not the world's police. It's not our job to make sure eveyone plays nice. before WWI the US was just another country.

[dc0ded]

China and India...

They seem to be creating the new world order...

[iamtam]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

Under the system, the average basic living cost in urban areas is 169.6 yuan (US$22.3) per person each month and that in rural areas is 71.4 yuan (US$9.39).

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2...nt_6036695.htm

is this about right??

i have been able to rent reasonable apartments in mainland cities well under 500 rmb a month, and i am white and they rip white people off.

[Caligari]

Originally Posted by iamtam

re-read my comments. they are living in on site dorms, meals in, working hard, not much time for outside work, and 25,000 rmb a year for a migrant worker from the countryside is a ton of money. perhaps you need to go spend some time in china to understand.

ah i see, so now you're talking about migrant workers building the SF bridge...

you might want to take some time to educate yourself-

you could half these prices and 12 bucks a day would be a joke.
if you think 12 bucks a month is a ton of money you're out of your mind.
http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living...?country=China
Rent Per Month Avg.
Apartment (1 bedroom) in City Centre 476.90 $
Apartment (1 bedroom) Outside of Centre 235.65 $
Apartment (3 bedrooms) in City Centre 1,101.94 $
Apartment (3 bedrooms) Outside of Centre 554.02 $

Restaurants Avg.
Meal, Inexpensive Restaurant 3.36 $
Meal for 2, Mid-range Restaurant, Three-course 18.85 $
Combo Meal at McDonalds or Similar 3.98 $
Domestic Beer (0.5 liter draught) 1.11 $
Imported Beer (0.33 liter bottle) 2.97 $
Coke/Pepsi (0.33 liter bottle) 0.60 $
Water (0.33 liter bottle) 0.36 $

Markets Avg.
Milk (regular), 1 liter 1.75 $
Loaf of Fresh White Bread (500g) 1.35 $
Eggs (12) 1.51 $
Fresh Cheese (1kg) 14.17 $
Chicken Breasts (Boneless, Skinless), (1kg) 3.14 $
Water (1.5 liter bottle) 0.54 $
Bottle of Wine (Mid-Range) 10.28 $
Domestic Beer (0.5 liter bottle) 0.60 $
Imported Beer (0.33 liter bottle) 2.10 $
Pack of Cigarettes (Marlboro) 2.12 $

So unless you want to livein a dorm with tons of other people for the rest of your life (i.e. a slave) you'd best be doing better than 12 dollars a day in china...

[dyna mo]

either way, china is trying to bring those low wages earners' pay up. that's why they've spent billions building highways out to the rural areas, right? the goal was/is to bring greater economic prosperity outside the city. but as i understand it, it is not yet working. but fact is, it will work to some degree, so those wages will go up to some degree, i.e. creating a more expensive workforce.

[Caligari]

another problem- china is still exporting toxic crap overseas i.e. the toxic drywall disaster in the united states costing untold millions along with lead toys for the kiddies...pretty bad.

[mynameisjim]

I would pick other countries as better suited for the future over China.

China has HUGE cultural problems it needs to overcome in order to become a true super power. China will be a player, but not the leader.

I'm a total nerd and read a lot of science and technology journals. All the papers submitted are written by researchers out of America, Brazil, Israel, Norway, France, etc. All over the world, almost never from China.

If China is so perfectly set up for the future, where are all the scientific papers from their universities? Where is all the research? Where is all the technology? When I see China, I see a bunch of 20th century smoke stacks.

That's why I said they have cultural problems. All of their university students can't even use Facebook or search Google without censorship. They are totally cut off from the rest of the scientific community. How on Earth can you claim they will drive technology when their students don't even have access to basic scientific research?

[Doctor Dre]

The republicans, by taking the USA hostage with their current policies and actions, are going to be the downfall of the USA.

The dept ceiling crisis is bad for the whole world, and countries are going to start moving away from the US dollar as a world reserve currency. For a damn good reason.

The current monetary policie is unsustainable, but blocking everything without compromese is not the way to go. You guys are getting royally fucked by your elected officials right now, and you will pay for it greatly in the upcomming years.

They want to limit the debt, but what this will create is probably a downgrade of the credit rating, wich will make things much worse.

[topnotch, standup guy]

Originally Posted by INever

Term limits don't work. In California there's term limits and everyone spends time jockeying for their next position. There's no political solution anyway.

Maybe we just need to take it up another notch.

How about term limits followed by imprisoning those politicians who leave their city, state, congressional district or country in worse shape than they found it?

Some real consequences just might result in some real statesmanship

.

[mynameisjim]

I would agree though that America's biggest enemy is America.

The fix is actually pretty simple. Publicly funded elections.

[CurrentlySober]

Originally Posted by iamtam

does bm stand for bowel movement?

i like bowel movements

[GatorB]

Originally Posted by mynameisjim

I would agree though that America's biggest enemy is America.

The fix is actually pretty simple. Publicly funded elections.

A viable CENTRIST 3rd party. Doesn't have to be that big maybe 10-15%. Then neither of the nut jobs on the left or right can get extreme beause they won't have a majority. They'll HAVE to come to the middle to get those 10%

[Agent 488]

viable "centrist party" ... now that's funny, america has two extreme right parties, as is obvious to anyone outside of the US ... forest for the trees ...

[mynameisjim]

Originally Posted by GatorB

A viable CENTRIST 3rd party. Doesn't have to be that big maybe 10-15%. Then neither of the nut jobs on the left or right can get extreme beause they won't have a majority. They'll HAVE to come to the middle to get those 10%

I think that would only be short term though. The money interests have become so adept at infiltrating politics and taking over, that any new party that started to gain influence would be corrupted within one or two election cycles. Especially with the new supreme court rulings that allow UNLIMITED and totally secret corporate political contributions.

We have to get all the money out of politics. The two party system does work somewhat well, we just have to get the corporate money out of it.

Once we get the money out, then maybe a new party will emerge on it's own anyway.

[digitaldivas]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

the whole who's got the cheapest labor thing will be a moot point going forward. wages in china are going up, businesses in u.s. are utilizing labor at home more, fuel (transportation) prices are going up as well.

china is tied to the rest of the world, they are not an exception nor do they stand alone.

have you heard that there is "green" legislation up for the gov taxing our air? Our fucking air for crying out loud Imho, the gov is super shady and China is coming up in a big way imho. I just think we should all be aware! In 2011 and going forward, you are either a sheep or you are awake.

[digitaldivas]

btw, didn't mean to quote ya Dyna Mo, sorry. Just woke up, blah...

[Bill8]

Originally Posted by mynameisjim

I would agree though that America's biggest enemy is America.

The fix is actually pretty simple. Publicly funded elections.

Publicly funded elections.

And the way to drive that is thru agressive, bitter, completely unreasonable anti-incumbency.

Because they will never accept publicly funded elections, and giving up all the bribery power curruption and the revolving door, until you make them afraid, and shut down their game thru anti-incumbency.

You also, however, have to do something about the plutocratic control of the media.

So, you have to combine unreasonable anti-incumbency with bitter anti-media.

What we are talking about is a kind of consumer strike.

[Bill8]

Originally Posted by digitaldivas

have you heard that there is "green" legislation up for the gov taxing our air? Our fucking air for crying out loud Imho, the gov is super shady and China is coming up in a big way imho. I just think we should all be aware! In 2011 and going forward, you are either a sheep or you are awake.

You must still be asleep, because I have never heard of such a thing as an air tax.

Presumably you mean a carbon tax. but you have been told its an air tax, and you repeat what you are told.

Since you claim to be awake, tell us what policies your awake brain proposes?

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

Sample EF English teacher monthly budget
To give you an idea of how an average EF English teacher in China spends his or her salary, here is a sample monthly budget:
Gross Income (Salary) : 12,350 RMB
Rent : 3500 RMB
Utilities (electricity, gas, water) : 250 RMB
Phone & Internet : 300 RMB
Food : 1500 RMB
Insurance : 295 RMB
Remaining Disposable Income : 6,505 RMB

in china the gov decides when the heat goes on and off in the building each year, like on in sept-oct and off in feb-march etc... doubt they have aircon...

[Agent 488]

don't like how this air tax thing sounds ...

if i get behind on my air taxes do they take away my air? sounds scary ...