I hate the fact that our business has come to this... It sucks ass.

If the company ***clearly states*** that rebills are just for 1 year (or whatever length) and that they are not for life, and they do this going forward... Its your decision to do business with them or not.

We should have a full list posted of the Sponsors that are doing this. If they are being upfront about this, there is no reason to hide in the dark-corners.

Things are getting worse- the paradigm shift of any person under 40 is that porn is Free.

People say adapt or die, unfortunately...I have not found a way to adapt...as I am one that is surely dieing.

Affiliate Rule #1: Know who you are doing business with.

stop sending traffic to sponsors and establish your own hubs and paysites

I used to mix a bit of PPS into what I promote, just to keep the payout patterns varied, but I've always promoted mostly revshare. SpookyCash is a revshare program. Today, PPS is probably less than 5% of what I promote, if that. The revshare folks are in business for the long haul, because their business model does not depend on complex business math or fancy footwork.

If an affiliate sends a valuable member, the affiliate should get paid as long as that member rebills. It is the point of revshare and core to the business model, on both the program and affiliate sides of the equation.

<bump for a REAL biz thread>

Well I guess the industry didn't get the memo. If they exist, they sure aren't sending those joins to any of the paysite owners I know. :(

And if there is some new magic way to get lots of new customers to buy a membership without any trickery I'd sure like to know.
Again, I just don't see how ANYBODY has not been affected by what has happened in our business the last 3 years.

If these magical mystery affiliate geniuses are so good now...why weren't they around before the shit hit the fan?

I guess I'm just not savvy enough to know of all these big shots, and apparently most paysites don't know either. I don't know of even one paysite that is doing bigger numbers now than they were a few years ago. But you'd think with these magical affiliates that seem to be able to snap their fingers and get people to join, that the industry would be roaring and everybody would be making killer money and nobody would be getting fired every week and...heh-heh.

I'm sorry, I'm just being stupid. I DO believe in these mysterious genius affiliates who have mind control over human beings and can get them to buy memberships. They probably live with Santa Claus and The Easter Bunny in a big house owned by The Tooth Fairy and Sweet Baby Jesus.

Seriously guys...

revshare stands for revenue sharing. I think the term speaks for itself.

I read that.
I used to make around $6000 a month with Top Bucks as well.
I'm gonna theorize that the person who made $6400 that month probably had a ton of rebills in the mix? And as a good affiliate rep Kristin makes it look nice maybe by not saying that part?

I would also say that when I had a lot of traffic I could have very easily sent 6400 one dollar joins in a month if I had pushed one sponsor really, really hard instead of promoting hundreds of them at once.

I don't see anybody, anywhere doing any kind of numbers like we used to push as an affiliate. And I don't see any of my formerly monster affiliates sending us shit to our paysites either.

I wish I did. But if y'all want to sit around and pretend that it's all good and everything is just fine...I don't know what to tell ya. Keep believing in these super cool affiliates who live secretive lives like they are Michael Jackson and send hundreds and thousands of joins to select paysites that they choose like Gods.

Either way, it ain't making either of us a thin red dime if you believe it or I don't believe it.

They are all on the same internet as you and I. Live in the same world. Have to deal with the same reality.

If I send a thousand REAL surfers who clicked on a link to a paysite and they went through the tour and then did NOT buy...how do these magic affiliates somehow convince their real surfers that the same tour is somehow going to make them buy in droves?

And why is the majority of the industry not named "Manwin" failing if these big mystery whales are out there with their magic powers?

Just to clarify, that $6400 was the commission to one Topbuck's affiliate rep for one month, which translates to 6400 new affiliate sales ($1 per sale commission, rebills not included). According to that thread their other reps have to produce at least 500 new sales each month, so clearly there are some affiliates still producing many sales. I feel you though, my ratios continue to decline across the board.

why would anyone out what's working in this day and age?

so others can copy them and steal their techniques and niches? brag about sales online for the irs and ex-wives can see?

makes no sense in 2011. not everyone is an egomaniac.

And with no disrespect to Top Bucks...I personally haven't had big sales with them since maybe 2003.

I have tried their mobile stuff the past week with my new mobilepornhunter.com site. And that's at 0:964 so far. :Oh crap

We also don't know exactly how those dollar joins came in. For all I know they could have been x-sales or some other kind of email spam sales. I just don't know.
Or maybe somebody just went into complete overdrive with everything they have and pushed nothing but $1 Top Bucks across whatever network they have?

What's to "out"? If we promote the same site. But mystery dude claims to be able to get people to join that site in droves while you send people and they don't join in droves...hey, the tour is the same.

I'm getting plenty of people to paysite tours. They just DON'T buy. Instead, they check out the tour, make a mental note of the girls names, and then head over to porn bb dot org or something similar and begin searching for that scene for free.

That's where this whole discussion take an abrupt 180 to me.

There is no magical land where people don't know about all the FREE shit. There is no magical place where the economy is not in the shitter. And there is no magical fairy dust that some unidentified billionaire whale affiliate supposedly sprinkles on people to make the same exact tour that you send people to suddenly convert for them and not you.

Sorry pal, you are totally clueless as to what a revshare program is, you're thinking about pay per signup.

I'm not feeling quite as bleak about it as you are, but we are definitely experiencing the same trends my man. I'm branching out into ebook publishing and teaching myself HTML5 so I can do stuff that works better on mobile devices -- I'd be doing apps if the leading platform wasn't a walled garden owned by an anti-porn zealot (fortunately, he'll be dead soon, and good riddance to him!) My blogging network still brings a trickle of affiliate cash, but the bulk of my bills get paid for by brokered advertising (mostly JuicyAds) and at least half of that advertising is short-term and gives the impression of being desperation efforts by people still trying to find a way to sell the unsellable.)

My point in posting about the "pay on rebills for a year, then stop" model was not to claim that programs shouldn't use it, if that's what makes business sense to them. My point was to ridicule the attempt to label that model "revshare". At this point revshare has both a universally-understood meaning and a solid complex of business reasons why it works for publisher and affiliate alike; this model is not faithful to that meaning and does not support those reasons. It's every bit as "fake-revshare" as the fake PPS programs that convert your account (retroactively) to revshare if they decide they aren't getting enough cross-sales and upsells from your signups to justify the PPS numbers they pretended to agree to pay you (AFF, looking at you...).

I know the difference between revshare and PPS.

The original topic was about a program putting a cap or limit or expiration date on an affiliate's rebill which in this case was one year.
The industry standard is the affiliate gets the revshare from the rebill for the life of that rebill.

There is no such thing as an industry standard. This is a business and a company can set whatever damn rules it wants to. A company could start a paysite tomorrow and pay a bag of oranges for each sale if they wanted to.

You people need to grow the fuck up and take responsibility for yourselves instead of just bitching about what everyone else is doing. If you're not getting rebills for as long as you want, you have no one else to blame but yourself. PERIOD.

By " industry standard " I meant what the majority of companies do and what is generally acceptable. I DID NOT mean it to be its the law and EVERYONE must do it.

But if they call it revshare, it's a lie.

that made me laugh