Originally Posted by 12clicks (Post 18224706)

Jut as in life, there are the Internet rich and Internet rabble

Originally Posted by Agent 488 (Post 18230312)

the gold standard made the great depression worse, how soon people forget ...

Originally Posted by u-Bob (Post 18230357)

please elaborate.

Originally Posted by TheDoc (Post 18229748)

Lol.... of course your stupid ass thinks it's a spending cut when you use debt to pay for it... hahahahahahahaha.


Truly, lol... no wonder this country is so fucked. This is 2nd grade math and it goes straight over your head... maybe this is why your business failed so bad? You can read a tape measure like no other, but basic balancing of a check book is without question far far far past your abilities.... :1orglaugh

Originally Posted by 12clicks (Post 18230554)

wow, this kid wakes up drunk.
No wonder he's on the bottom rung of society.

Originally Posted by wig (Post 18229928)

Try switching the drop down on the left from "pct GDP" to "$ billions" and see if that helps.

Originally Posted by 12clicks

thats so weird! The chart here shows the exact opposite:
http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/...or =c&local=s

in fact, if you look at 1999 and 2000, we actually spent less than we did in 1980 (a 20 year roll back)

Gee, I wonder who's right.

Originally Posted by u-Bob (Post 18230308)

It is the state that allows banks to run their fractional reserve scheme (something that is inherently unstable and banks would be unable to do in a free market). It is the state that covers the banks' losses with money it takes (taxation) from 'the people'. It is the state that rewards the irresponsible behavior of the banks.

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Originally Posted by sperbonzo (Post 18231103)

Excellent post, and this particular point is one that I'm so shocked that people don't recognize. I know that most people don't understand banking or how free financial markets create risk that moderates banking behavior, but it still amazing how people can be duped into blaming banks for things that are the DIRECT result of the actions of government. I never understood how people could be so easily persuaded of the existence of outside scapegoats to distract them from what their governments were doing, but the last 20 years have been a real eye-opener. I now understand how regimes like the Nazi's came to power and convinced people that "someone else" was to blame for everything and that the only answer was to give yet more power to government.

.:Oh crap

Originally Posted by BFT3K (Post 18231133)

A ridiculous spin post, complete with Nazi references! Congrats to you oh blind one!

Originally Posted by sperbonzo (Post 18231103)

Excellent post, and this particular point is one that I'm so shocked that people don't recognize. I know that most people don't understand banking or how free financial markets create risk that moderates banking behavior, but it still amazing how people can be duped into blaming banks for things that are the DIRECT result of the actions of government. I never understood how people could be so easily persuaded of the existence of outside scapegoats to distract them from what their governments were doing, but the last 20 years have been a real eye-opener. I now understand how regimes like the Nazi's came to power and convinced people that "someone else" was to blame for everything and that the only answer was to give yet more power to government.



.:Oh crap

Originally Posted by wig (Post 18230555)

You anti-banking, anti-financial guys don't have a good grasp on these industries.


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Originally Posted by joshgirls (Post 18230473)

not that hard to google it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_st...eat_Depression

Originally Posted by u-Bob (Post 18230308)

I fully understand your anger. While it is true that most (all? empirical question ;) ) of the 'super rich' have made their fortune (or at least a major part of it) in unethical ways, this still does not justify taxation.

Taxation is a practice whereby one organization forces another to pay, regardless of what this other organization has done. Taxation is a violation of people's property rights and therefor unethical.

Back tot he financial industry: The hideous things banks have done and continue to do, they have been able to do thanks to the state. It is the state that forces people to use fiat currency. It is the state that forces people to use banks. It is the state that takes out loans "in the name of the people" and taxes people so it can pay back those loans with interest. It is the state that allows banks to run their fractional reserve scheme (something that is inherently unstable and banks would be unable to do in a free market). It is the state that covers the banks' losses with money it takes (taxation) from 'the people'. It is the state that rewards the irresponsible behavior of the banks.

This whole low taxes vs high taxes for group x vs group y discussion is nothing but a distraction. Divide and conquer... make the poor and middle class, entrepreneurs and wage workers, etc fights amongst each other about who should be taxed that tiny bit more and the result is that that no one takes the time to question the underlying problem. People fight amongst each other and the system, the institution that makes all of this corruption possible remains safe, out of the spotlight.

Another president, another congress, another senate, another head of the Fed, new regulations, a different tax system,.... none of these things will fix anything.

Like they said in "The Tigercat": everything had to change so everything could remain the same.

If you really want to change something, fight the disease, not its symptoms.

Originally Posted by wig (Post 18231224)

From my perspective, when I hear people scapegoat FRB it's usually them that seem not to understand banking. :(

Originally Posted by BFT3K (Post 18230008)

Absolutely!

Originally Posted by u-Bob (Post 18231313)

See "The Mystery Of Banking" by Murray Rothbard for more info.

Originally Posted by TheDoc (Post 18231328)

....So rather than discussing what we aren't going to change, I tend to work within the boundaries of reality that I can alter.

If you try to cure the disease it simply moves to a new location... like wealth, it never goes away, it's the balance that goes with it. I don't want to change what can not be changed.... I want to make it work for me, more!

Originally Posted by u-Bob (Post 18231336)

free pdf: http://mises.org/resources/614

Originally Posted by wig (Post 18231362)

Yes, I'm familiar with him. Anarchocapitalism would not work in practice.

And I think there's a reason that it is not practiced.


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Originally Posted by u-Bob (Post 18231363)

I know we're not going to change the world by discussing things on a message board etc. And I know most people aren't going to question the whole concept of taxation etc

Personally, I try to lead my life without causing any injustice. Like Ghandi (yes, I'm quoting Ghandi on gfy :) ) said: "be the change you want to see in the world". I work hard, I make money by providing products and services other people value and are willing to pay for. I pay my taxes eventhough I think forcing people to pay taxes is unethical (I pay them because I know the taxman will otherwise make my life a living hell). I try to help my friends, family and neighbors as much as possible (because 1. I think that is what friends do, 2. because I realize that someday I might need help). I never steal. I don't accept any kind of government funding/subsidies. I don't steal. I don't commit murder. I don't profit from criminal activities.

Originally Posted by TheDoc (Post 18231403)

I don't steal, murder, and I try not even to hate but at the end of day, I walked around the kid too.

Originally Posted by u-Bob (Post 18231376)

regardless of what you may think of his political ideas, I recommend you a closer look at the mystery of banking. I'm willing to bet that it will change your opinion on FRB.:winkwink:

edit: I see you replied while I was typing :)

Originally Posted by u-Bob (Post 18231421)

I walked around those kids too on many occasions, but while I did nothing to help them I also did nothing to hurt them. I didn't rob them and I didn't encourage a 3rd party (the state) to tax them and use that tax money to build nice roads for me.

While the whole "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" concept is indeed not for everyone, I think more people should consider the easier version: "Don't do unto others what you wouldn't like them to do unto you".