9,998 saved from kidnapping , :thumbsup

That's the problem: we don't live in a democracy by choice.

Democracy is great if you want to start a tennis club or something like that. You and other like minded people who are all interested in playing tennis come together and voluntarily decide to start a tennis club. The voluntary members of this club can decide how things will be organized: vote on every decision? elect a president every year or every 4 years? do x to raise y amount of money to buy equipment? do x to raise y amount of money to buy a piece of land or rent a building? etc.

If you as a member of your tennis club don't like the way things are being done, you can always quit the club and maybe even start your own tennis club or apply to join another club.

The important thing here is that membership of the tennis club is voluntary. The tennis club does not force anyone to join. The tennis club does not use force to wipe out other tennis clubs that are located in the same geographical area.

Now if we take a look at the state, we see that the state is nothing more than an organization that has a monopoly on certain services such as protection and arbitration and an organization that forces all people who just happen to be living in a certain area to buy its services.

The fact that the internal structure of this organization (the state) is democratic does not justify the acts of aggression that this organization commits. The state remains an organization that uses force to wipe out the competition, the state remains an organization that forces people to buy its services.

From an ethical point of view this is an act of injustice.

From a utilitarian point of view this is incredibly inefficient. Because there is no competition and people are being forced to pay, the state does not have any incentive to do a good job at the services it claims to provide.

The argument that people are free to leave is invalid since:
A. first of all it does not address the fact that the state has no right to force people to buy ,its services.
B. states are ever growing/expanding institutions. Look at the EU for example. It's impossible to run. Even if you do manage to find a place in some remote part of the world, some democratic state will sooner or later send in troops to "free you and install democracy".

You said you were a libertarian, a capitalist and a follower of the Chicago school, so I presume you are a follower of David Friedman.

Even if you base your position purely on utilitarian/consequentialist grounds and reject the notion of natural or rational rights, you still cannot condone benefiting from acts of aggression because doing so would reject the (100%voluntary exchanges vs some involuntary exchanges) cost-benefit-analysis that David Friedman's capitalist theory essentially is.

First of all, David Friedman is not considered to be part of the Chicago school of thought

Second of all, you guys really do crack me up. And I really don't mean that in a rude way because you do seem like a nice guy. An old roommate of mine was a big Austrian and we used to have these conversations all the time. He was also a big Southpark fan!
Anyway, at least from my standpoint, it's really not imperative that either of you be able to understand realities about the world as they exist and to be able to differentiate between theory and practice.

There's absolutely no shame in an honest day's work. Don't feel ashamed of anything. If you need money and you're willing to work, you're already far ahead of a vast majority of people out there.

I'd like to think that if, for whatever reason, I was unable to provide for my family I wouldn't be too proud to take a McDonald's job if that's all I could find.

Yo Milton! Where my free lunch at?!?

Hell yes, it is, for someone like me. I've ALWAYS made it without being employed. Employment is for people who never got over having parents. An employer is like perpetual parenting.. hand holding. For people who can't make it on their own

I raised myself and never needed an employer. So if I do, for awhile, it is a dark day

But like some people said - nothing to be ashamed of, a hard days work. I love to work, anyway, just hate being employed.

Yeah - everyone wants everything for free

Not me, if I get myself into a bad spot I take responsibility for it and do whatever it might take to fix things. :thumbsup

yah can tell. good luck.

I have no problem at all with fucking the system before it can fuck me.. but if I get into taking handouts of any kind, it's more about the kind of person you become through doing so. It makes people worthless!!

But then again, while I won't take a handout, give me a clean shot at fucking the system out of some money and .. :winkwink:

Exactly. This is why if some asshole owns all tracts of land surrounding your land, YOUR property is the dominant one. And you have the RIGHT to cross their land in order to access your own.

99 of 100 people on the street will say UM WE LIVE IN A DEMOCRACY but it is a constitutional republic (or was)

In a democracy, if 2/3 of the people want to murder and rape you and take your valuables because it's easier for them, it is done. In a republic like ours each INDIVIDUAL is supposed to have the SAME right to everything.

Thank you - I will do anything I have to. :thumbsup

I've been getting unemployment insurance for approximately 60 weeks and am scheduled to get 91 weeks at $405/week. That adds up to approximately $36K. I did debate whether or not to take it, but from the time I moved to NYC when I was 22 years old and worked my ass off and paid a shitload of federal, city, and state taxes for nearly 9 solid years, with the last 3 of them being in the highest bracket. I then quit my job and was doing real estate for awhile until getting called by my former company and accepted an offer to do a really cool freelance job that paid really well, but did not deduct taxes from paychecks.
About a month before finishing the assignment, I paid taxes that amounted to way more than my 91 weeks of unemployment will pay me. It was shocking to pay the lump sum after having my taxes deducted from paychecks for all those years. Rightfully or not, having to pay so much in taxes definitely played a part in my decision as did the fact that I really just needed a break. Even though I think 91 weeks is an absolutely ridiculous, especially when coming from a bankrupt state like NYC, I don't feel the least bit guilty. If that makes me a hypocrite, so be it.

Those thieving cocksuckers fucked you over and stole so much of your money, mother fuck them... bleed them for all that you can get. God damned thieving scum, they are.

keep calm and focused don;t let the streets pull you down.