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-   -   The Affiliate Biz Model is Broken and has Always Been Broken! (https://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=1026212)

12clicks 06-13-2011 05:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rock-reed (Post 18209866)
The Affiliate Biz Model is Broken and has Always Been Broken!

As an affiliate... Myself... We just didn't care before... because we were making money.
And in most cases, We never bitched to the Programs we pushed- We didn't care. Checks were flying in.


PLEASE READ MY THOUGHTS:

We live in a more enlightened porn world... You're crazy if you think you send traffic via Your affiliate links that most surfers would sign up right then and there.

They see the site, they take time and think about it and do some searches on it.

They come back a few days later or even a week or month and then go straight to the paysite and bypass Your affiliate links completely. The paysite gets the signup, but you do not get paid as an affiliate.

This has Always happened... but its more prevalent now as:

1) Pay sites have fucked over members in the past... great tours, but shitty content on inside

2) Pay sites have fucked over members by trying to upsell or not let them cancel

3) Surfers are overall more savvy and understand overall search better and they do some basic research before buying in to a paysite.

4) Porn surfers are desensitized to porn to a degree and they no longer buy spontaneously.Sure there is still a Lonely, Drunk Jeff on a Friday night that buys immediately. But this is no longer The Norm.


Also----As time goes by.... many people cancel a paysite they love.... They will routinely join again after 6 months, a year... or sometimes even several years. This is a known fact as I have talked to several popular paysite owners about it.


With this said... What do you think we can do from the Affiliate Angle to help with untreated problem?
1) simply untrue. its easy and cheap to load a paysite with a ton of content. Thinking you need exclusive content to succeed is the false idea promoted by content producers.
show big, long, clear fuck and suck movies and you're showing what every porn buyer wants. Everything else is irrelevant. Porn sites are not ripping off surfers.

2) simply untrue. An upsell is not fucking over the member and not being able to cancel causes CBs. The bane of the paysite owner unless your a slash and burn thief and that small number of guys has pretty much been elliminated from the biz.

3) wrong. Surfers do not "research" porn. The search a little, see something they like, and buy. "research" is a fallacy promoted by review sites.

4) incorrect. porn is always an impulse buy. Also, your thoughts on surfers returning much later and cutting you out of a commission are wrong too. However, even if its true 1% of the time, you're still vastly over paid on the value of a join so you're already compensated for that 1%

Stop blaming the program owners. If you're not making money, its YOUR fault.
Ifd what you do makes you $50.00 a day, multiply what you're doing by 10. Then you're making $500.00 a day.
You lazy assed affiliates are your own only problem. You never worked a hard day in your life so you think that multiplying how hard you work AT A FUCKING KETBOARD is "hard work"
its not.
The ONLY part of this negative equation that lies with the pay site owner is coddling you clowns to the point that your need to be an innovative risk taker (what's needed to succeed in any business) has been completely stifled because you get free hosting, free content, new tours every other day, custom banners, etc. etc.
Those of us who have been successful for over a decade did all of these things ourselves! Because we did, we learned! Because you don't, you whine.

its no more difficult than that, no matter what guys with a few months experience say.

rock-reed 06-15-2011 11:23 PM
You're fucking nuts.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 12clicks (Post 18212394)
1) simply untrue. its easy and cheap to load a paysite with a ton of content. Thinking you need exclusive content to succeed is the false idea promoted by content producers.
show big, long, clear fuck and suck movies and you're showing what every porn buyer wants. Everything else is irrelevant. Porn sites are not ripping off surfers.

2) simply untrue. An upsell is not fucking over the member and not being able to cancel causes CBs. The bane of the paysite owner unless your a slash and burn thief and that small number of guys has pretty much been elliminated from the biz.

3) wrong. Surfers do not "research" porn. The search a little, see something they like, and buy. "research" is a fallacy promoted by review sites.

4) incorrect. porn is always an impulse buy. Also, your thoughts on surfers returning much later and cutting you out of a commission are wrong too. However, even if its true 1% of the time, you're still vastly over paid on the value of a join so you're already compensated for that 1%

Stop blaming the program owners. If you're not making money, its YOUR fault.
Ifd what you do makes you $50.00 a day, multiply what you're doing by 10. Then you're making $500.00 a day.
You lazy assed affiliates are your own only problem. You never worked a hard day in your life so you think that multiplying how hard you work AT A FUCKING KETBOARD is "hard work"
its not.
The ONLY part of this negative equation that lies with the pay site owner is coddling you clowns to the point that your need to be an innovative risk taker (what's needed to succeed in any business) has been completely stifled because you get free hosting, free content, new tours every other day, custom banners, etc. etc.
Those of us who have been successful for over a decade did all of these things ourselves! Because we did, we learned! Because you don't, you whine.

its no more difficult than that, no matter what guys with a few months experience say.

Thomas007 06-16-2011 03:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver Klozov (Post 18210204)
Finally a real business thread, thought these were extinct here on GFY!

As a program owner I very much agree with your statement, we have noticed many of the same comments and trends. Consequently we have started doing several different things.

First of all we have our cookies set for at least 30 plus days to give the referring affiliate the best chance of registering a sale. Anyone with cookies set to the CCBill default of 3 days I wouldn't even touch.

Second we have started buying advertising on sites that also promote us using the standard affiliate model. We try to pick sites that we can reward with our advertising dollars because they have been loyal to us as affiliates. Now this is not 100% in effect but so far we've had great response and success.

Without quality, exclusive content member quit or worse chargeback so we put much of our efforts (and budget) into quality content with lots of updates. The members area for NextDoor-Models.com is updated 5 times a week with quality content.

We talk with our members via polls and comment sections to hear what they like and don't like and what they want to see more of. We make sure when members have problems with Username or Passwords they get fixed within 24hr or less.

Now most of this stuff is common sense but it consistently surprises me how many big programs and sites are still living in the old days and totally ignore this type of stuff, then they wonder why their sale are going down and blame the tubes or something.

Just my :2 cents:
Mail sent regarding reviewing NextDoor-Models.com

C H R I S 06-16-2011 03:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 12clicks (Post 18212394)
1) simply untrue. its easy and cheap to load a paysite with a ton of content. Thinking you need exclusive content to succeed is the false idea promoted by content producers.
show big, long, clear fuck and suck movies and you're showing what every porn buyer wants. Everything else is irrelevant. Porn sites are not ripping off surfers.

2) simply untrue. An upsell is not fucking over the member and not being able to cancel causes CBs. The bane of the paysite owner unless your a slash and burn thief and that small number of guys has pretty much been elliminated from the biz.

3) wrong. Surfers do not "research" porn. The search a little, see something they like, and buy. "research" is a fallacy promoted by review sites.

4) incorrect. porn is always an impulse buy. Also, your thoughts on surfers returning much later and cutting you out of a commission are wrong too. However, even if its true 1% of the time, you're still vastly over paid on the value of a join so you're already compensated for that 1%

Stop blaming the program owners. If you're not making money, its YOUR fault.
Ifd what you do makes you $50.00 a day, multiply what you're doing by 10. Then you're making $500.00 a day.
You lazy assed affiliates are your own only problem. You never worked a hard day in your life so you think that multiplying how hard you work AT A FUCKING KETBOARD is "hard work"
its not.
The ONLY part of this negative equation that lies with the pay site owner is coddling you clowns to the point that your need to be an innovative risk taker (what's needed to succeed in any business) has been completely stifled because you get free hosting, free content, new tours every other day, custom banners, etc. etc.
Those of us who have been successful for over a decade did all of these things ourselves! Because we did, we learned! Because you don't, you whine.

its no more difficult than that, no matter what guys with a few months experience say.

12 Clicks is a wise man - no bullshit. I would listen to just about anything he hjas to say with the exception of political opinion to which he is a bit right wing for my taste.

He also married my favorite person in the industry - lucky lucky guy,, (luck plays no part I assume).

Respect!:thumbsup

12clicks 06-16-2011 04:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rock-reed (Post 18219139)
You're fucking nuts.
I've been in this biz since '97
During that time, my business has made 10s of millions of dollars in both mainstream and adult.
I'm sure I'm wrong.

What are your credentials again?

Cherry7 06-16-2011 05:24 AM
There is not just one way to succeed.

We have unique content and find that helps us keep members.

It is true that some members join several time and that the affiliate loses that sale.

That said our affiliates make consistant sales and have done over the years, and our films are VERY expensive to make, we have to pay a lot for hosting, webdesigners etc... we think the affiliates get a good deal.

We get about 10% 20% return on our money so paying affiliates 50% seems fair, even if with the few losses it turns out to be 45%, it is still a good deal.

If an affiliate contacted us and said they would send more sales for a bigger % we would be very interested.

leg4 06-20-2011 12:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SwirlsGirl (Post 18210780)
I think the industry is in need of a billing overhaul first and foremost. A billing solution developed by, of , and for we the webmasters/producers.

We are sitting here collectively with no independent ability to verify or oversee any actions done by our billing companies that may or may not be working in our best interest.

They would rather keep us all in the dark, and hope we continue to "TRUST" the low sales, and weird stats anomalies. I assert that there is no way with so many hurting for sales, and these companies supposedly only making a few bucks off of those already few sales... how do they put fuel in the private jets??

How do they afford these parties, why no lay offs, its not to hard to figure out if you brush up on your understanding of the philosophy of banking/credit and the history of the debit card/credit card scam mechanism run by banks.

If it is so rampant and pervasive in the banking world than how foolish have we become to assume that billing companies are not engaged in the same deceptive fraudulent practices
I agree.... we do need a complete billing overhaul. - - - Some sort of micropayments system would be perfect... think iTunes for porn.

Grisey 06-20-2011 12:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cam_girls (Post 18210156)
2 words


CAM GIRLS :winkwink:
haha you get girls at a car show to wear your t-shirts just seen the pictures on a friends FB

Paul Markham 06-20-2011 01:48 PM
The affiliate model was fucked from day one.

A. The idea that affiliates are needed is screwball. If the guys putting up sites can't do what 99% of affiliates can do, they go down.

B. Affiliates were over paid. And over indulged. 10% tops, cookies non existent and little content to promote a site with. Paying 50%+ and giving them everything, allowed people who would never of made it in porn. To fuck the business.

C. Getting affiliates affiliates was more important than getting and keeping customers.

D. The idea that traffic is king is stupid. Getting men to look at porn as about as getting my dog Rajah to eat food.

E. Giving away the product you sell is fine if you give away limited samples. Free porn is unlimited and better than paid porn. That was obvious at the beginning of TGP sites. When it took 100s of views to get a member. Rationing the product makes it more valuable.

F. Thinking anyone can pick up a camera and make a girl, whose there only to earn money, perform a great sex scene is stupid. You must know that by now because most porn is boring.

G. You were told this over and over again. In small bites. But you chose to ignore it. Now the industry is for most people on the slide down. Will you change?

WILL YOU GROW 2 HEADS?

Don't take any notice of me, I'm a know nothing broke loser. :1orglaugh

SwirlsGirl 06-20-2011 02:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by plsureking (Post 18211846)
a lot of the ccbill declines discussion was here on gfy over the last 2 years.

i personally did an investigation a couple of years ago for a site that went from 20-30 sales a day to under 10 in a couple months. no change in traffic and no change in join page hits. the same number of visitors was hitting the ccbill page but they were getting declined. however ccbill wasn't reporting the declines in their system and no decline emails were sent. a couple customers emailed during that period asking for alternative billing, but their decline was not anywhere in ccbill.

ccbill also investigated of course and claimed all those people were just closing the ccbill join form window. a strange occurrence when nothing on the join form changed and the prices on that site actually went down during that period.

things that made me go hmmmm wtf mofos.....

btw i have never seen this going on with other billers. even verotel (lol)
.
You don't say my friend.... well I could add more bizarre and shocking join form behavior and stats but what good would it do?? There seems to be a select few that have the where with all to think outside the box... and even fewer with the courage to post there questions on GFY...mainly because of the Public relations tactics they employ on the boards trying to make question raisers appear as lunatics....but I enjoyed your post and concur with you 1000%

Perhaps you have had join form submission swings from 350% on monday to 25% on tuesday to 0% on wednesday, to 75% on thursday, back to 0% on friday.....while the big fish accounts have form submission percentages like this...

monday 5%
tuesday 6%
wednesday 6%
thursday 5%
friday 6%


see how clean and consistent some are ....they don't have any fresh 0% days in there to drop that baseline average down where it needs to be..... maybe I should have been a pseudo banker

96ukssob 06-20-2011 02:43 PM
fiddy brokens :winkwink:

Agent 488 06-20-2011 02:45 PM
you suck because your stuff is old and crap take responsibility stop blaming affiliates lol ....

you prove that any idiot could have picked up a camera and made money back in the old days.

the market adapted and you died. :2 cents:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Markham (Post 18228644)
The affiliate model was fucked from day one.

A. The idea that affiliates are needed is screwball. If the guys putting up sites can't do what 99% of affiliates can do, they go down.

B. Affiliates were over paid. And over indulged. 10% tops, cookies non existent and little content to promote a site with. Paying 50%+ and giving them everything, allowed people who would never of made it in porn. To fuck the business.

C. Getting affiliates affiliates was more important than getting and keeping customers.

D. The idea that traffic is king is stupid. Getting men to look at porn as about as getting my dog Rajah to eat food.

E. Giving away the product you sell is fine if you give away limited samples. Free porn is unlimited and better than paid porn. That was obvious at the beginning of TGP sites. When it took 100s of views to get a member. Rationing the product makes it more valuable.

F. Thinking anyone can pick up a camera and make a girl, whose there only to earn money, perform a great sex scene is stupid. You must know that by now because most porn is boring.

G. You were told this over and over again. In small bites. But you chose to ignore it. Now the industry is for most people on the slide down. Will you change?

WILL YOU GROW 2 HEADS?

Don't take any notice of me, I'm a know nothing broke loser. :1orglaugh

SwirlsGirl 06-20-2011 02:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by leg4 (Post 18228463)
I agree.... we do need a complete billing overhaul. - - - Some sort of micropayments system would be perfect... think iTunes for porn.
WOW I got someone to agree with reason and truth!!!! KUDOS for you for being so bold as to cosign on a billing rant of mine!

Yes the time has come and they know you cannot stop an idea whose time has come...

Find me a billing company who lets me TRACK MY SURFERS MOVEMENTS ON THEIR SERVERS AND YOU HAVE FOUND YOU THE MOST REPUTABLE AND TRUSTWORTHY BILLER EVER


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