Camsite Software Advice (help!)

[clitcartel]

ok so I need you guys to give me some advice. I'm about to buy a video chat program but before I do that Id like to know which you guys think is the best one available and why. The one I'm looking at is quite expensive at 7k so obv Im doing my research. I really like the company and the software is the shit but again, Id appreciate what others here have to say on the matter.

Thanks in advance!!

[lazycash]

Explain in more detail what exactly you are looking for, are you talking a community video chat script or a pay per view model script? Which one are you looking at buying?

[clitcartel]

pay per view... like naked (dot) com

[lazycash]

Originally Posted by clitcartel

pay per view... like naked (dot) com

There's a dozen or so out there, is the 7k just he out of the box price or for a customized version? Which one are you looking at?

[TMM_John]

Check out http://www.2much.net

[clitcartel]

Originally Posted by TMM_John

Check out http://www.2much.net

thats the one im looking at. hehe

[clitcartel]

any help here???

[clitcartel]

Originally Posted by TMM_John

Check out http://www.2much.net

hey john,.... you guys have anyone using 2much.nets system with nats?

[lagcam]

Originally Posted by clitcartel

thats the one im looking at. hehe

I knew that after 1 hour because they weren't immediately in this thread recommending themselves

I have looked at that software a couple of times over the years, originally when an earlier version cost around $12k.

I didn't buy it then because I thought they would have too much "involvement" in my business, and when I looked at it again a couple years ago, nothing had changed in that regard.

What has kept me aware of them (aside from how many times they spam it here) is that I really believe it is good software, and COULD although as far as I am aware nobody ever has, make a successful profitable site.

My advice is to read and understand the DETAILS of the small print. Search the history here also there are a number of threads from disgruntled people who didn't read the small print.

[clitcartel]

Originally Posted by lagcam

I knew that after 1 hour because they weren't immediately in this thread recommending themselves

I have looked at that software a couple of times over the years, originally when an earlier version cost around $12k.

I didn't buy it then because I thought they would have too much "involvement" in my business, and when I looked at it again a couple years ago, nothing had changed in that regard.

What has kept me aware of them (aside from how many times they spam it here) is that I really believe it is good software, and COULD although as far as I am aware nobody ever has, make a successful profitable site.

My advice is to read and understand the DETAILS of the small print. Search the history here also there are a number of threads from disgruntled people who didn't read the small print.

yeah I actually ran into some issues with them today that could have killed the whole deal however they were willing to make some changes to accommodate my terms. Albeit at a cost but nonetheless they were understanding. Going forward I always reply heavily on lawyers for contractual agreements but I think that they are going to work out in the end just fine. The software hands down is really good.

so im curious Lagcam, what other programs do you think compare? what are you using if i may ask...

[lazycash]

Personally, I think you can find similar software/script for less money. I like many of their features, but hate the fact that they have so many stipulations when using them, like hosting etc...

Look at these guys, they've done some work for me and are very professional, http://www.flashcoms.com/products/ppv_chat/

[2MuchMark]

Originally Posted by lagcam

I knew that after 1 hour because they weren't immediately in this thread recommending themselves

W ... wh... what are you saying exactly?



and ok, I jump in to every webcam topic. It's good business for us. I know you will never become our client and thats ok. Sorry for all the noise.

Originally Posted by lagcam

I didn't buy it then because I thought they would have too much "involvement" in my business, and when I looked at it again a couple years ago, nothing had changed in that regard.

Could you clarify this for me? We offer advice when people ask, but otherwise you're completely on your own. Why do you think we have too much involvement in your business?

Originally Posted by lagcam

What has kept me aware of them (aside from how many times they spam it here) is that I really believe it is good software, and COULD although as far as I am aware nobody ever has, make a successful profitable site.

Our software is not a business model, nor is it an investment, and by no means do we promise anyone they will be successful. LiveCamNetwork is nothing more than a fancy accounting system that streams video. You need to have good live content to stream, and paying customers to watch those streams, lots of good business sense and be ready to put in lots of hard work to make it a success.

Originally Posted by lagcam

My advice is to read and understand the DETAILS of the small print. Search the history here also there are a number of threads from disgruntled people who didn't read the small print.

Actually their complaints were about something very different. One got very upset with us because his chargebacks went through the roof and we told him he had to get his own CCBill account. The other person lost their license with us because we caught them committing fraud and stealing customers from other LCN sites, not once, not twice, but 3 times.

Your advice however is sound. Besides reading the small print, before going into any new business territory, anyone should be fully aware of the true cost of business. The webcam business is fun in my opinion, but it is a hell of alot of work.

Cheers!

[lagcam]

As I have commented on other cam software threads, I have never seen an off the shelf package that could 100% do the job management wise without modification.

That doesn't mean that I am suggesting "custom" is the best solution, because I don't think it is. For me the best solution is to take something tried and tested, and modify it to your own particular requirements, rather than re-invent the wheel when it is not necessary.

Problem is, not all developers are happy for somebody to want to add or subtract from their pride and joy, so for me the most important thing was finding a developer who was not only prepared but more importantly capable of making the ongoing changes to the way the software worked, as I learned more about managing a cam site, and as we encountered operational issues and problems that I wanted to better control or avoid.

[lagcam]

Originally Posted by **********

I know you will never become our client and thats ok. Sorry for all the noise.

OK, let me clarify this. It is not the software or any concerns about its capabilities that would prevent me from ever being your client, it is as Lazy cash said the "stipulations". You must host with us, you must do this and that blah blah blah.

As front ends go, yours is great, and knowing how professional you are, and the fact that you have direct experience of running a site, (which many developers do not) I imagine that the back end could be one of the best I have seen also, although I haven't actually seen it.

But the fact that you know about managing sites is also a problem because you STILL manage a site, and so you are actually a competitor to your own customers....... and what is also a little worrying is that as they are forced to host with you, you in theory have access to their data also....which could explain how you managed to catch the guy you said was stealing customers from you?

Maybe I am paranoid, but cam data is valuable....... very valuable.

[2MuchMark]

Hi Lagcam,

Thanks for taking the time to get back to me. It's 3am here - you're a work-a-holic like I am I guess (like we all are).

Originally Posted by lagcam

OK, let me clarify this. It is not the software or any concerns about its capabilities that would prevent me from ever being your client, it is as Lazy cash said the "stipulations". You must host with us, you must do this and that blah blah blah.

I see your point, but our stipulations weren't just made up. They came from experience and were hard decisions to make. Hosting with us for example, came about a long time ago. We would be blamed for slow, laggy video when the problem was due to a busy server or router at some hosting company. We were forced into doing tech support for their host, explaining how to trace and locate the source of the problem etc. Very expensive and time consuming.

By hosting it ourselves (we have cabinets at Peer1), we cut our support costs by 41%, provide faster service to our clients, and create a new source of revenue all at the same time.

Originally Posted by lagcam

As front ends go, yours is great, and knowing how professional you are, and the fact that you have direct experience of running a site, (which many developers do not) I imagine that the back end could be one of the best I have seen also, although I haven't actually seen it.

Thank you! And I would be happy to show you the new (v4.5) back end once it is installed (the old admin is kind of ugly).

Originally Posted by lagcam

But the fact that you know about managing sites is also a problem because you STILL manage a site, and so you are actually a competitor to your own customers.......

A very valid point, except that we actually do not compete with you, just the opposite. Please look at the MBASE (model database) feature on this page : http://www.2much.net/mbase.php. It lets site owners license their live feeds out to other sites for re-sale. It's co-operation, not competition.

Originally Posted by lagcam

and what is also a little worrying is that as they are forced to host with you, you in theory have access to their data also....which could explain how you managed to catch the guy you said was stealing customers from you?

Yes that is 100% correct. We do have the data, but it is not in our best interest to use it. What is in our best interest is to encourage you, a site owner, to grow your business. When you grow your business, we make more money (if you use mbase).

We try to be very transparent in how we do things. We wrote our software ourselves (except for the wowsa server we use for streaming). We use our software ourselves to video chat out of our own studio. We manage, hire, fire, advertise, test, experiment, change, modify, ourselves. Most importantly we share our successes and failures with our customers. We even post screenshots of our Google Analytics reports and encourage all of our customers to us GA on their own sites.

As for catching the guy who stole from us, we would have missed it completely had we not been alerted to it by other customers complaints. Once the accusations started to accumulate we simply matched the culprits to reports generated by LiveCamNetwork itself.

For example, one function of LiveCamNetwork lets you give money to any username. It can be used for testing, or to give money to a friend or anyone to video chat with a model. This counts as "real" money across the accounting system of course, and it is therefore logged for the site owner's own tracking purposes. The culprit never noticed that this link was a part of his admin program, which was one of the ways he was caught.

It's now 3:23am and I'm dead tired. Goodnight !

[glamourmodels]

Originally Posted by lagcam

I knew that after 1 hour because they weren't immediately in this thread recommending themselves

[clitcartel]

well this thread got taken over... lol. I originally posted here to get you guys to give me an OPINION on what is out there.... can anyone do that?

[cam_girls]

All the big cam programs are done in house. Nothing to see here!

flashcoms is done in all flash
CONS : no source code, no database backend, no scrolling the home/gallery page

camscripts.com is $270 but it's never been tried on a large scale so just bare bones.
I tested it by logging into a camgirl account and a user account.

Another dozen $1000 range scripts out there but all the demos are terrible.

Either 2much or Camscripts, depending if you want control of the software or not.

[clitcartel]

damn I thought there would be a bigger selection. anyways I really like 2much.net's program I just think that I am going to have to have some very clear cut contracts drawn up by my lawyers. that being said mark has been very accommodating with my needs and terms. I think hes making a mistake however not selling the software and having it open source. he would have a lot more sales that way and people could mod it to their liking. and maybe not have so many issues with disgruntle clients too....

[2MuchMark]

Originally Posted by clitcartel

I think hes making a mistake however not selling the software and having it open source. he would have a lot more sales that way and people could mod it to their liking. and maybe not have so many issues with disgruntle clients too....

Hi Clic,

Open source works for some, but it is not a part of my business plan. And besides, our software works very, very well.

[clitcartel]

**UPDATE**

Ive spoke with Mark and he has agreed to put everything I was concerned about in writing and so its all being put together now. I think that its a lesson for everyone that a business deal is a business deal... you need to read through everything and if you have some issue, then bring it up, talk about it and see if you can come to an agreement. Ive read the other posts as was suggested and it really seems like the bandwagoner syndrome Ive spoke of before. Some yahoo thinks because he has some cash and that it sounds good to just buy a app, run a site and make money. Not true. You have to work at it. You also need to have a clear understanding of what you are buying. If you are so fucking dumb to buy a fairly expensive program and not read the contract you are just too stupid to be in this business. Also from the other threads on LCN there was some serious fraud going on on the licensee's part.

I'm completely comfortable moving forward with mark and will post back here and let everyone know how its going.

[Genie]

I guess you are already going for 2much, congrats. Take a look at our company website if you need someone to integrate, however, we currently only integrate iStreaming Video Chat hosting. Check the demo player at our website.