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there is a hell of a lot of free speach that is going to be censored by that interpretation of the law |
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Your answers do not really say how you expect to do the things you want... I am not twisting words, you are not answering my questions till the end. 1) You say only south park makers or studio or "whoever" has the rights to the video may upload it to youtube. How does youtube verify this? you expect them to check chain of title on each video? Do you expect facebook to do that on each image?? Facebook gets MILLIONS of images each day. It would take them more than 100 man-years to verify chain of title. Thus I said you expect user submitted conent to disappear on the web, since it clearly is impossible to check the chain of title on each one. 2) The submitted already today is liable for what he uploads. 3) My comment about Hosts was regarding the fact that based on 1) above, you will clearly see that any host is somewhat of a user-submitted content service. You get an account and upload content. If you do not own that content, the host can not be held liable. That is because of DMCA, and nothing else... Thus DMCA is clearly needed unless you think the host should be liable if one out of 100 customers uploads stolen content that the host CLEARLY could not know about. |
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Do you still think removing user uploaded videos is a good idea? |
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Clown. |
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it does not matter if its a different business model. It's still uploaded files from 3rd parties. Which means we can never be 100% sure they are legal. You could get an account and upload a PRVT video. How should we know its not one of yours?! Explain that to me. Thus, it still requires DMCA law. My questions, also, were not about how we should change our business model. It was about changing the DMCA law you all say is full of "loopholes" without actually understanding it 100%. But when I ask for what you would change to remove those loopholes, you can not actually give me anything, all you say is I should stop allowing user uploaded content... that's just a brainless answer. It would be awesome if at any point in time you would actually have the dignity to truly discuss this subject without calling me names, but I guess that is not possible for you to do... I'll survive... I am actually trying to discuss this to understand what you would suggest, but if you have no actual suggestions, so be it. |
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he argued that the only way to have a fair use right to use his content (for parody) is not to use his content at all he has argued that supreme court explict declaration that copyright is a monopoly is not legally legitimate he doesn't understand that the safe harbor provision was the balance to a takedown process that bypasses the court systems. he doesn't want to go backwards, he wants the benefits without any balance and he doesn't realize the censorship that would cause. |
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I'll explain this to you slowly...Since 1996 I ran TGP's. Around 2001 I stopped taking submissions because my traffic was too valuable and I made a lot more money off of hosted galleries. I signed up for over 400 programs and ran their galleries. THAT is what I would do with your tubes. I would sign up for all those programs, then I would go to each one and ASK for some of their older vids...perhaps ones that were already on Pornhub in the past. Then I would set up trusted accounts for paysite owners only. Then I would CAREFULLY set up the page templates for their videos based on the niche of their sites. Keeping the pre-paid shit less "spammy" looking so the page actually makes some sense and has the ability to sell something for the pre-paid sponsor AND the video owner. And finally I would look at each vid uploaded. And I would personally decide which ones went up each day. Just like a TGP operated. No need for DMCA or stealing. And I'd set this all up while the current Pornhub was still live. Once everything was in place I'd flip the switch and change you from being a hated thief into being the biggest and most profitable affiliate in the world. That good enough for you? I was willing to come to see you personally and map this out. Why? Because you're my bestest friend in the world? No. Because I believe that if I could make Manwin enough money doing things the right way, that it could be an industry changer and help raise up many of these paysites from the dead. Which would increase production across the board and make the entire industry healthier. If the biggest tubes in the world (Manwin's) followed this plan and were successful, then others would naturally fall in line. Just like they fell in line naturally with the current fucked up system. There you go Fabian. |
Robbie,
great, lovely suggestion, three problems I see with it: 1) We have tested and tested and tested and I do not think your version of the site would make any more money. 2) I have no time to personally decide which video goes up each day, so I need to trust employees to make the right choice, which is not TRULY an issue, just something I wanted to mention. 3) This logic would still require DMCA since again, "trusted" accounts or not, it would still mean that people can upload content that is not theirs to upload. This is what DMCA is for. Just accept that one little fact... You have not shown how to change DMCA to remove the loopholes, you have again just told me how you would change PornHub in some magical way that will make me "millions more each month" (as you said in another thread)... It won't. YouPorn uses a similar approach, except that we still do not upload the content, "trusted" accounts do. That does NOT mean they do not need DMCA! |
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2. I have spent years making relationships with companies. Not one of them has any reason to want to upload a competitors video and risk losing their account and the accompanying traffic and sales. Which is also why I would be the one personally selecting which vids went up on which day. It would be a very carefully thought out and executed daily procedure. Nobodies vid goes up without ME choosing it for that day. Just like they didn't make hosted galleries that broke the rules because I CHECKED all of them by the thousands. 3. See "2" DMCA was never needed for any free site promoting sponsors. The only thing DMCA is needed for is for you to make money off of other people's work. But MY way would make much more money and everyone would be happy. The only difference is it would actually require someone to WORK (that being me), and it would require your "team" to do something other than answer DMCA's And quite frankly...I don't even need to give a sponsor an upload account. I can just do it the way I do it now on my tubes... ask them for the vids. Get them myself when they give them to me and put them in myself. No DMCA, no hatred, just making money. |
The Online Copyright Infringement Liability Limitation Act, which goes in tandem with DMCA also includes a counternotification provision that offers OSPs and/or sites a safe harbor from liability to their users upon notice from such users claiming that the material in question is not, in fact, infringing.
Maybe have a post upload agreement from the surfers stating that they accept liability if the video is in fact infringing before going on your network. Imho, Robbie does have a good idea for separate affiliate and surfer upload pages. I think many independent producers, myself included would jump at this chance if given the opportunity. I also agree with the upload my hand approach. I do the same thing Robbie does with tube-erotique, although my tube is much, much smaller. |
Robbie, it's great that you are so proud and think so highly of yourself and think so little of everyone else that you feel you are just better than anyone.
I think letting studios upload the content is an important part of the way a tube site works, and I do not honestly care if you think nobody has a reason to upload a competitors video. This has nothing to do with possibilities, simply with covering your ass, and anything is possible. Who knows, maybe after testing YouPorn long enough in-house we will come to the conclusion that turning off user uploaded content is a good way to go, but we are simply not there yet. The problem with DMCA is that you lose out on the safe harbor if you control too much. So, IF another studio wanted to hurt us, it would be much easier by uploading someone else's content and getting us sued if we somehow screen user upload accounts to somehow verify they are "industry players". That is a simple business concern and risk which I need to weigh in when I look at DMCA regulations. Losing the safe harbor is not a good idea. I understand that many people hate what we do, I also know many many others do not. I also know that we offer technical means to make sure your content never even gets up on our tubes. If you feel there is some other technical feature we should be adding which we do not have currently, feel free to suggest it. But do not suggest that losing safe harbor under DMCA is a good and wise business decision since it simply is not. |
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We also tell uploaders that they are liable for videos they upload that they have no rights to. |
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It didn't work for anything except getting Pornhub traffic. The second part of the equation: making Pornhub money off of sales to the site...didn't happen because the page isn't set up correctly and is too spammy with pre-paid ad spots. I'm sure I made a few sales that were type ins from it. But Pornhub made shit on it. No, the page templates would have to be set up individually for each sponsors paysite. It would take some work and (as I did) the tube script would have to be hacked up a bit and the admin tweaked out to make it possible to set up each paysites page with the proper corresponding banner...and I'd also do the same with the pre-paid spots. If it's a big tits vid...the pre-paid AFF ad would go to the AFF search page for big tits. Little tweaks like that can mean a huge increase in income. But it takes somebody with experience and a non-stop work ethic to do it. You can't just put the tube site on auto-pilot and do nothing but answer DMCA to truly monetize it to it's maximum potential. |
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Robbie, I totally agree, that's why we have a big team working on the tubes constantly changing how they work and optimizing them...
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What you need now is a guy who knows where to aim them and have them doing the right things. You asked me to engage you in a conversation without name calling. I did so. The things your team are doing to optimize are the wrong things. Analogize it to music: A lot of guys can copy Van Halen's guitar licks note for note...great technical players. But they will never be the expressive player that Eddie Van Halen is. Or sports: The NFL is full of quarterback coaches who know more about throwing a football than anyone...but they are not and never will be a great quarterback on the field. Your team may or may not have someone with both technical skills AND "right side" of the brain creativity. You yourself, as a former programmer, are probably a strong left side of the brain thinker. I suspect you have a lot of that same type of technical, analytical thinkers on your team. What they need is someone in there with real good right side artistic thinking to combine with their more technical skills. |
Another retarded law that won't change a damn thing when it comes to piracy and copyright infringement but yet the same time it will be abused thousands of times to fight off freedom of speech at the web. Congrats to those of you who are happy knowing shit about the reality.
__________________ :warning :warning :warning :warning :warning :warning :warning |
Robbie, none of the things you have mentioned are things we have not looked into, tested or are still testing today...
I am the last one to say that the way we monetize our sites is perfect, but it is far better than you think it is. Thanks for the real discussion btw. |
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Pornhub and all of your tube sites have missed the boat on paysite sales and optimizing individual pages to specific paysites. Saying that you are making great money with a rumored 10 million uniques a day is a given. But I made a LOT of money on my TGP's with 1.2 million uniques a day a few years back. I know things are different now because of sites like Pornhub giving away full scenes. BUT...if you took the bull by the horns you could turn that thing around. Stop the user-upload. Continue on with full scenes, but NOT the newest full scenes from a site's members area. Let that be the value of the membership. You would still have a site full of free porn, 10 million people coming there, and your pre-paid ads and whitelabel and "premium" all in place. But the difference is...no more DMCA to fuck with, extra revenue coming in, a place at the table in this industry instead of being one of the most hated, and one less legal problem (copyright and trademark infringements) to deal with. Fabian, I've had video clips on my free sites for years. And tube sites for 3 years. I've never had one DMCA notice. I run my site. Nothing is going up that I don't do myself. I understand the DMCA law...but it doesn't apply unless you are in that user upload game. And that just isn't necessary. There is a better way. |
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that would be the quickest way to kill the value of the tube site think about porn hub would consist of only old videos how long do you think it would be before people jumped to another tube site look at how quickly people jumped to alternative file lockers when the biggest player in the industry decided to play ball with mpaa. thank god manwin true owners didn't listen to you Quote:
tube sites HOST THE CONTENT ON THEIR SITE what you are talking about creates a massive liablity approve one single video that in dispute in any way shape or form and your fucked and don't say every paysite has perfect control over the content they sell because there have been dozens of bitch fest where a content shooter complains about not getting paid for his work, or paysite going beyond the liciencee rights granted by the actual content producer. that happens once under your system and manwin would be co defendants in such a suit hell with the big pockets cases which would not have a chance in hell of being profitable would suddenly make buckets of cash. Quote:
you would mininova pornhub and a dozen other smaller tube sites would get a boost in traffic as people started using them instead the pattern is clear it happened with torrent sites it happened with file lockers the industry won't copy the idiot trying to go backwards they will gooble up the traffic as the users leave in droves. |
ONE HUNDY Whatsits!!!
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that exactly what mininova did after they lost the big case (because they obeyed the DMCA instead of their own countries laws btw) http://torrentfreak.com/cyberlockers...-sites-110111/ they went from top 100 site to top 3-4 million range file lockers and other torrent sites took over same exact thing happened to rapid share when they made similar changes |
bump for robbie brilliant idea to mininova manwin
to bad anyone with half a brain can see that will do nothing but drive all the traffic to other tube sites just like it did for mininova and rapid share when they tried the same failed idea. |
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and robbie brilliant idea is to do the same thing to manwin |
I'm so glad I have gideongallery on ignore.
I don't even have to LOOK at his posts to already know that he is ranting and raving that Pornhub should continue using stolen content. He is so fucking pro-stealing that it's totally predictable. GG, whatever it is you're doing in this thread, please realize that you have no business here. Hell, you should be banned from GFY anyway because you're not even in our industry. Nobody takes you seriously and nobody ever will. Now do your parents a favor and go get a damn job. |
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Please provide a link to the page where people can take advantage of those technical means of which you speak. Or, as I rather suspect, are you talking in terms if selling "protection" to smaller programs? :winkwink: . |
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i realize your an idiot who is too stupid to come up with an original idea ever so of course you think doing something as stupid as copying the failed mininova plan would work but i have enough respect for the concept of free speech that i would never call for you to be censored. i always find it amazing that a person who's entire living based on the 1st ammendment always pulls out the "you should be banned" card. |
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copying the business plan that dropped mininova from a top 100 to top 4 million would definately work if robbie did it :winkwink::winkwink: |
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Hey! Let's talk about something interesting like... branding bugs :) I remember how you used go on at great length discussing those little critters and how GFY content producers should stop worrying about tubes and make bank by just letting a few of them crawl (or maybe it was fly) around the set. Thing is, I never quite grasped how that worked in practice. It would be really great if you could explain to the assembled multitude here, yet again, just how branding bugs work :) . |
Hey topnotch, don't forget that he also invented a torrent recorder. And he also teaches local bands how to become major superstars by giving away everything for free, and he only charges them $5000 to do so.
Oh and of course the branding bugs! His ridiculous idea for something that Hollywood has done for decades. Only problem is NO mainstream product will ever pay to be part of a PORN movie. Matter of fact, if you accidentally have their shit prominently displayed (like a close up of a coke bottle for instance) they will sue your ass. This isn't Hollywood. This is porn. But "he whose name must not be spoken" thinks he has all the answers. Even though he has never done ONE thing in porn. (Or out of it, with the exception of his fantasies of being a lawyer, master marketer, consulting firm for bands, and inventor of the torrent recorder) He really needs to go GET A JOB. |
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you cant as a kid go waltzing into a brick and mortar adult store- in fact you cant even look in the window. yet a 5 yr old with a smartphone can watch all the midget tranny sites he/she wants. why doesnt the govt try to put all porn at least behind a payment adult verification wall? at that point it wouldnt be about stopping user -gen content, but more about keeping porn behind an adult verification wall. no "dangerous limitation of free speech"- just matching the brick and mortar law to web community just curious |
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big surprise. |
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BTW, what's the real deal with Fabian's claim to offer "technical means" to make sure, as he puts it, that peoples content never gets up on his tubes? Is he dabbling in the "protection" business now too? . |
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most paysites would not be able to survive if brick and mortar verification was required to grant access. |
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