Designers think it's tough today :1orglaugh.. newbs

They have no idea.

edit: 50 PSD's!

See? You are questioning it yourself, it's getting tight and more and more questions arise.
Since when you last had a written contract work done?

It's kinda different. It gets tough in the industry which is not doing good, and lack of resources cause a lot of new questions.

Designers are the red headed step children of the industry. If you are a designer GTFO and build your own shit. You will be surprised at just what your talent is worth doing your own stuff. Pay is slow at first but it grows out.

I wont design now unless its really worth my time.
Design is the most fucked position to be in. I turn away almost 50% of potential business I only accept established companies for the most part. To many bottom feeders wanting the world for 10 bucks.
Suck my dick.

PSD's for a banner? oh geeze, NEVER.

that's my exception, I don't even save them.
If i did... I'd have to have a petrabyte of storage :1orglaugh

Okay, shithead ( since you started calling ),
giving a PSD out is not a standard,
I am saying CLIENTS who have my PSD may REUSE it, recolor bits and run 100 blogs built off one template.

So, imagine how crazy this thread became, but this is what made me post it. I also, at times, dont even save banner work cus i make them on the fly, and barely i save frames to follow.

You can't be a good digital designer without having natural artistic ability.

But you need to adopt the term "Fuck you pay me"

Designers have run prices into the ground, You don't have to follow suit.

I charge more now than I ever have. I also book less than ever. and work less than ever.
but make much more.


The key is finding supplemental income, balances the broke moments that lead you to shitty rates, and desperate situations that make you quote low in hopes of payin the bills.

if your only income is design today, you're likely not well fed.
If you know how to float the shit between gigs, you're good to go.

So fucking what. They bought it. They own it.

MGK You Mean wannabe designers have run prices into the ground:P
90% are retards.
100% agreed!

Welcome to GFY.com

Artistic ability is different from BEING an Artist. I can draw by hand, but not good enough to be a commercial ARTIST.

Here's the thing.
Most of my work now is CSS.
the PSD might be for a logo, or some minute part of the overall project.

Lately I get asked for a PSD, and have to reply that there simply ISN'T one.. it's all CSS

What's to stop the client from tweaking the CSS and swapping out a logo? not much.
so just stop worrying about it, and worry about making kick ass designs.

They own html based site supplied. They could have ordered 100 blogs not 1 designed. Thats where I cut the line. I only negotiate if they want PSD and adjust pricing.

:1orglaugh There's no way in hell to live full time off of web design in the Adult industry.. unless you're hired in a full time position by Pimproll or similar..

Again its right. But i got to the boiling point today.

Nah, we're all guity.

I've had a few years where I marketed myself as "fast and cheap" and found myself in a perpetual hell of trying to keep up, pay the bills, and keep clients happy.

It's next to impossible, I learned a few years back that I was on a crash course, and changed the way I roll.

I think most people know now, that I'm slow and expensive.

I have supplemental income that floats the boat while gigs are low ,and I prefer to book only premium work, I work with resellers that separate myself from the client, removing quotes with emotions attached, like an overdue bill etc.

It ends up that you make more money.

Will I give the odd client a break, or a lower rate if I find them amusing to work for, or if it's a project I'm interested in? sure.. but for the most part now, I'm aiming for a good rate that will allow me to work my ass off on your project, without my ass hurting after.

I've grown and learned.. and quite simply put, I'd rather play my Xbox than do a template for $50, with the odd exception here and there.

I have never had one for design work but i do see your point and yes design work is getting cheaper, So harder for you guys to make decent money. I have also never asked for a psd for a banner and never will, lol. But I do for full page/site designs, mascots, or logos.

This is mainly small business, people who really don't know either way. My explanation is good enough for them. If they want changes made, I will gladly make them for a small fee as well. That's how it works pretty much every where else, except the adult industry.

Where, as it has been pointed out here, people want everything and the PSDs for peanuts. Fuck that.

Peace. Yo.

MGK hit on something as well.

Hint if you are worried about PSD and a PSD being the main part of you're design these days you are doing it wrong.

It's no wonder ratios are shitty accross the board. To many programs buy into heavy graphics and end up with a shitty designer as the program is on a "Budget" so they go with the lowest price.

In short you get paid what you are worth.

I'm anything but cheap. This retarded allusion to working with "cheap" designers as an excuse has zero to do with the fact that every member of this forum could get to together and compile a list of designers who aren't flaky and unreliable in the adult biz and that would be a super short fucking list.

Thats a simple fact of graphic design people in this biz. ADD, unreliable, unprofessional.

You think any sensible person is going to then rely on unreliable/flaky people for design changes AFTER the fact after paying you 50% down and they having to harass the fuck out of you for weeks to see a first sample which was promised in a few days and then again having to harass the fuck out of you to get it finished up while listening to excuse after excuse after excuse?

You're insane.

Relax. Everyone already figured out the PSD tihng is about banners. And you are wrong.

I always smile when i read posts like this because Ive been trying more then hard for years and had myself on this board offering design services, getting XBIZ nominations... but for some reason people always have horror stories about flaky designers.

I deliver on time every time.

To be fair, I was at my brokest while working exclusive for one company.

It's not impossible to live off full design, but it takes a certain amount of confidence, and intelligence.

If you're full time adult though, I feel for you.
Mainstream is where it's at, and where I make most of my money today via my resellers.

He's not as wrong as you assume. :2 cents:

The designs that convert, are certainly not graphic heavy.
Content has always been king.

Infact some of the clients designs that have converted the best, have barely been designs, but a layout for the content.

Screw 50% down. I just had someone pay me $800 in full upfront for a design. She didn't even question it. If you have the references and talent.. then take it all upfront.

Those are the kind of clients worth having. The ones that actually have money.

Peace :thumbsup

maybe YOU are on time, every time.. but thats far from the norm when dealing with people in this biz and i've tried dozens over the years. If you know that people always have horror stories about flaky designers, then you understand its a legitimate concern.

I paid full upfront and i dident even know the designer. It was word of mouth and also seeing some of his other design work and his service was A1. I couldent have been more happy with it

I certainly doubt average people notice. Its mostly between programs to show off to get webmasters.

I do understand.

This thread should be 6-8 pages by now. lol

Adult design is for suckers. Mainstream is so much easier :thumbsup

That goes both ways aswell, for every one client that's had to harrass me, I've had to harrass 20 clients to get fucking paid.

Clients seem to think designers are flaky, but they have no idea what designers deal with.
literally no idea.

If you think designers are flaky, you should try dealing with clients :1orglaugh

For ever client that does as they say they will , submit specs, payment, revision requests etc. you have 20 that don't and totally fuck up your timeline.

Not saying all clients are a pain, but I'm not afraid to say that a good amount are.
They are however the first to bitch when the "designer" fucks up though.

Just recently, I had a client take forever to pay his balance that was to be paid that night, then He gets all over me to deliver the work ( on the weekend when I was off ) because he decided to finally get off his ass and pay the balance, he ended up pretty much flipping out on me, with no mention of his being MIA for a week and a half...

with about 400 behind the scenes ICQ messages flying back and forth aswell! :1orglaugh

This aint nothin'

How can you claim to be an amazing and creative artist and then be upset because somebody wants to rehash a PSD file? Isn't that shit work that you shouldn't even have time for?

To me it seems like a programmer getting upset over a WordPress install. Please. If a client likes you, they will come back. Paying inflated prices for a banner touch up just doesn't make sense for anyone involved. Take the heavy work, let the lower level guys deal with the lower-level work.

Ohh.. PSDs AND fonts used...

I think he's speaking of one client taking the $100 design he paid for, using the PSD to make 10 more sites, which he sees as a loss of $1000

that's the way I used to see it, but now I couldn't give a fuck, any client with that mindset is a pain in the ass, and I'd rather they take their PSD and go make their own shit :1orglaugh

Just keep in mind, the fonts are not your property, and you likely don't have legal right to pass them on.

I will link clients to paid fonts, or provide freeware fonts with PSD's

Go get a coke and watch some TV, all you are doing is upsetting the wannabees and teaching the idiots.

Correct. But thanks to you Im over it already. Cheers.

/thread.

Am i too late for the gangbang?

as long as it's clear what the client is getting, I don't see a problem with it :thumbsup

As a "consumer" I want the PSDs as insurance. I've had a couple of designers create something for me (including PSD) then shortly afterwards drop off the face of the earth. I don't just mean ignore my contact attempts, I mean seriously gone... no more posts from them anywhere.

How do I get a minor change done if there's no PSD and the person who has them is gone? :D

What a troll :1orglaugh

Alien Q invented PSDs

Alien Q invented CSS

100

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