TurboAngel

Sounds good!

Agent 488

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/kidney.htm

http://www.911myths.com/index.php/Bin_Laden_met_the_CIA

Bernard Koval, the director of the hospital, also denied the terrorist had been a patient there, saying "Osama bin Ladin has never been here. He's never been a patient and he's never been treated here. We have no idea of his medical condition. This is too small a hospital for someone to be snuck through the backdoor."

blackmonsters

Lot's of Hollywood-screen-play-type material being sold to regular people these days.

And "they be a'buying!"

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onwebcam

It was prior to 9/11 and it is publicly admitted that he was on CIA payroll at that time. If it did happen then they would obviously want to separate themselves from knowledge of where he was the months before.

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Agent 488

read the 911 myths page. no proof whatsoever he was there and story most likely created by french inel prior to the iraq war.

post proof he was on the cia payroll.

onwebcam

Al Qaeda AKA "The Database" was created by the US government to track funding to the Mujahideen via the House of Saud. Of which Osama was the head of during the Soviet Afghanistan war. Since then Osama and Al Qaeda have been on payroll. Even to this day

Libya: the West and al-Qaeda on the same side

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...same-side.html


Yemeni PM says Al-Qaida in Yemen "Western-made"

http://en.trend.az/regions/met/arabicr/1778386.html

A good BBC video explaining it all

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Coup

theking

Pigshit.

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helterskelter808

Other people in the region, so more likely to know what goes on there, have an opinion too, like the Iranians:

"Bin Laden's death reflects the passing of a temporary US pawn, and symbolizes the end of one era and the beginning of another in American policy in the region."

"The West has been very pleased with bin Laden's operations in recent years. Now the West was forced to kill him in order to prevent a possible leak of information he had"

uno

I'll bite again. Isn't that basically a laundry list of why YOU wouldn't trust someone as a source?

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AsianDivaGirlsWebDude

I could find no record of Pieczenik serving as Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for Management, under Lawrence Eagleburger, or anyone.

BTW, Eagleburger was Secretary of State for just over a month, December 8, 1992 ? January 20, 1993, unless you count his time as Acting Secretary from August 23, 1992 - December 8, 1992 (just over 3 months).

Pieczenik was NOT a US Navy Captain. He was a USPHS - United States Public Health Service Captain; while the insignia and ranks are similar to the US Navy, the USPHS is a non-military organization.

The right-wing is chock full of conspiracy nutjobs like Pieczenik that make wild sensational claims while presenting absolutely zero proof.



ADG

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McCain Praised Bin Laden?s Mujahideen

http://newsone.com/obama/casey-gane-...eedom-fighter/

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theking

He did not as it was never "Bin Laden?s Mujahideen". The Muhahideen were the various loosely aligned Afghan opposition groups, which initially rebelled against the incumbent pro-Soviet Democratic Republic of Afghanistan (DRA) government during the late 1970s. At the DRA's request, the Soviet Union intervened. The mujahideen then fought against Soviet and DRA troops during the Soviet war in Afghanistan. After the Soviet Union pulled out of the conflict in the late 1980s the mujahideen fought each other in the subsequent Afghan Civil War.

Osama Bin Laden was but one of players in the Muhahideen and was never the leader of the Muhahideen...and was never a CIA asset on the payroll of the CIA.

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Hizbul Mujahideen owns Osama bin Laden mansion in Abbottabad
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...ow/8164278.cms



How the CIA created Osama bin Laden
http://www.greenleft.org.au/node/24198

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theking

I do not know what point you are making. The Mujahideen has/had many factions with their own leaders and their own goals that loosely combined forces to fight against the Soviets and then fought among themselves. Osama was but one of the players...never the single leader of the Mujahideen.

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Bin Laden's Mujahideen doesn't have to consists of ALL Mujahideen's. The fact is he was a leader of his Mujahideen which was funded by the CIA/ISI/House of Saud. And if he was actually there he was obviously still being funded by a faction of Mujahideen considering he was supposedly living in their house.

WHich then brings us to Al Qaeda that is "The Database" a creation of the US government to track the funding of the many factions of Mujahideen.

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theking

What is your point. Anyone that has paid attention to such things is fully aware that Osama was/is a player in the Mujahideen and also that the CIA helped to fund...arm and train during the period of time that the "Mujahideen" was fighting against the Soviets. In addition anyone that has paid attention to such things is fully aware of the aftermath in the years following the Soviets being defeated in Afghanistan. So what is your fucking point...for regurgitating the same shit over and over.

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AsianDivaGirlsWebDude

Nice Wikipedia link...

Guess you missed the disclaimers at the top of the page:



Like I said, contrary to what was in the post that you initially made (and has been repeated numerous times by conspiracy websites as evidence of his bona fides), Pieczenik was NOT a US Navy Captain.

His own Bio page makes no mention of his having been Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for Management, as your initial post and the Wikipedia entry infer, and I could find no independent corroborating evidence that he ever held that title.

Instead, he writes, "Deputy Assistant Secretary of State and/or Senior Policy Planner under Secretaries Henry Kissinger, Cyrus Vance, George Schultz and James Baker."

There is a significant difference between being a Deputy Assistant Sec. of State, and a Senior Policy Planner, but Pieczenik deliberately blurs that distinction. I could not find much on the internet about Pieczenik's great accomplishments other than what he wrote about himself, and the disinformation circulated by conspiracy theorists such as in the initial post of yours that I cited.

BTW, it's been about 20+ years since Baker, et al, left office.

Gee, why is it that Kissinger, Vance, Shultz or Baker, or any of Pieczenik's other former bosses don't make the same claims that he has, or backed-up Pieczenik's claims?

ADG

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Jakez

If he wanted everyone to believe him why the fuck would he reveal that information to Alex Jones listeners? That just means his usual listeners are going to believe it and everyone else will call bullshit.

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Killuminati

eroticsexxx

Correction: A radioactive super terrorist ZOMBIE.

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Pieczenik, Steve R. - co-creator of the New York Times best-selling "Tom Clancy's Op-Center"and "Tom Clancy's
Net Force"book series; a former State Department hostage negotiator and crisis manager
http://www.ctwilcox.com/CFRroster.pdf


An American envoy has claimed that he played a critical role in the fate of Aldo Moro, the former Italian prime minister who was murdered by terrorists in 1978.

Steve Pieczenik, an international crisis manager and hostage negotiator in the State Department, said that Moro had been "sacrificed" for the "stability" of Italy.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...o-killing.html

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Andreas

Yes this must be true.

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AsianDivaGirlsWebDude

Your citations did not address my points directly, nor disprove what I said, which is that there is no proof, as you initially cited, that Pieczenik was ever the Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for Management or a US Navy Captain (he was not).

Despite any past achievements (however overstated), Pieczenik is basically now a crack-pot, just like Alex Jones.



ADG

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The google results are overwhelmed with resent interviews so finding anything is nearly impossible

From his facebook

Dr. Pieczenik attended Booker T. Washington High School in Harlem. He earned a New York State Regence scholarship and at age sixteen started Cornell University in Ithaca, NY. In 1964 Dr. Pieczenik received a bachelors of arts degree in Pre-Medicine and Psychology. At the age of 20 he received a full-ride scholarship to attend Cornell University Medical College in New York City. After his medical school in 1968 he attended Greenwich Hospital in Greenwich, Connecticut where he did a rotating internship.

In 1969, Dr. Pieczenik was drafted into the United States Public Health Service where he eventually obtained the military rank of US Navy Captain (06). He was sent to run three psychiatric wards at Saint Elizabeth's Hospital in Washington, DC. Subsequently he received one of four prestigious National Institutes of Mental Health scholarships allowing him to attend any psychiatric residency program in the United States. enrolled in a residency program in Psychiatry at Harvard Medical College at the Massachusetts Mental Health Center. Dr. Pieczenik became board certified in Psychiatry and was a board examiner for ten years in both Psychiatry and Neurology.

During his residency program at Harvard, Dr. Pieczenik simultaneously got a PhD in Political Science and International Relations at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT). Toward the end of his residency he received two Harry C. Solomon Awards for his research on Hierarchy of Ego Defense Mechanisms in Foreign Policy Decision Making and Cognitive Behavioral Determinants for the Treatment of Borderline Patients. This latter paper became the foundation for utilizing Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) in patients with Borderline Personality Disorder. No one else in the history of Harvard Medical College has ever received two Harry C. Solomon Awards, nor has anyone else simultaneously completed degrees from Harvard and MIT. Historically, recipients of the award go on to become chairmen of academic departments and major leaders in Psychiatry. However, Dr. Pieczenik's career took a different path.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Steve-...74492849258543


It appears that there's nefarious things at work on his wiki as you pointed out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?...action=history


Steve Pieczenik, a former member of the U.S. State Department sent by President Jimmy Carter as a "psychological expert" to integrate the Interior Minister Francesco Cossiga's "crisis committee", was interviewed by Emmanuel Amara in his 2006 documentary Les derniers jours d'Aldo Moro ("The Last Days of Aldo Moro"), in which he alleged that: "We had to sacrifice Aldo Moro to maintain the stability of Italy."

http://www.bean.dreab.com/p-Aldo_Moro

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AsianDivaGirlsWebDude

What you are saying then is that you could not find proof of what you originally posted as fact (so basically, even you fell for the US Navy Captain lie, and then reposted it in this thread).

I was aware before my first post that Pieczenik's Bio states that he was a USPHS Captain, but as you can see, that is not what was/is being put out by the various conspiracy websites that you mention are making it "nearly impossible" for you to find anything refuting what I said (indeed you reinforced what I said, that Pieczenik was NOT a US Navy Captain).

Somehow, I thought that conspiracy theory proponents, of all people, would try to get their facts straight.

For example, it doesn't say in Pieczenik's Bio that he was ever the US Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for Management, as has been widely inferred in the misleading info disseminated by Alex Jones and his supporters.

For a guy who was such a high-ranking government "insider" decades ago, one would think that there would be more written about him, other than what he wrote himself.

In any case, whatever credentials he once had, have pretty much been undermined by his ridiculous unsubstantiated theories regarding Bin Laden.

ADG

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livexxx

I;d hit her

also proof and legitamate sources on the other please. i.e sources that could be sued if they lied and not a source that looke like http://www.christianilovehtealienwho...sinarizona.com

mynameisjim

Well, if this was a fake mission, you need to explain why the Navy Seals used a top secret Stealth Helicopter to carry it out. New photos of the wreckage show a helicopter that nobody has ever seen before.

Why would the government risk a top secret stealth helicopter on a fake mission?

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/top-se...ry?id=13530693

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onwebcam

Not decades ago..

"He is currently an advisor to the Department of Defense."

What you seem to be missing is that no one of any importance is refuting his biographical claims.. Did some sites misstate one of his accomplishments? Wouldn't be surprising.. Also not surprising that someone who wants to deny what he claims to take a grain of salt and turn it into a molehill so they can use it to refute everything he says.

You're saying "Look he's a liar." When in all actuality People have read into "the military rank of US Navy Captain" as being just that rather than USPHS ranking being the same ranking levels as Navy. Adding to the confusion USPHS wear similar uniforms.

It's irrefutable that he was in the upper echelons of the State Department. It's all over the web in various references in various roles.. Also irrefutable he was CFR.

Going to check wayback machine to see what his wiki had prior to yesterday..

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AsianDivaGirlsWebDude

Anyone that writes a letter to the DoD is an "advisor".

Its funny how defensive tin-foilers get when you apply the same tactics and standards to them when asking questions, as they do to those whom they smear.

ADG

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Writing a letter to the DoD doesn't get your involvements in international politics written about in books and articles and your likeness in the movies.

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Young

Osama will live forever because of fucking idiots.

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Agent 488

the us gave weapons and training to to the afghans to fight the russians, yes.

post proof though bin laden was on the cia payroll.

Marcin978

because they want you to believe that it was real
this helicopter was probably used for better realism of this story

they need hold up official 911 version
no matter the price

so who cares about top secret helicopter
when they can lost everything?


https://youtube.com/watch?v=ek7ZH...layer_embedded


think about this:

The size of the lie is a definite factor in causing it to be believed, for the vast masses of the nation are in the depths of their hearts more easily deceived than they are consciously and intentionally bad. The primitive simplicity of their minds renders them a more easy prey to a big lie than a small one, for they themselves often tell little lies but would be ashamed to tell a big one.--Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf

"The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth becomes the greatest enemy of the State." ----Josph Goebbels, Nazi propaganda minister


If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.
--Josph Goebbels, Nazi propaganda minister

onwebcam

I've posted a number of sources.. What do you want his paycheck stub?

When Osama Bin Laden Was 'Tim Osman'

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHART...den_osman.html


A stolen version of PROMIS software is what is used to control airports and airplanes.... IE airplanes can be remotely controlled using PROMIS software...

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papill0n

if you believe that shit then please identify yourself and immediately sign up for voluntary castration

buzzard

If you don't believe this whole thing is a lie then you'll have to castrate your self. Easy to do... since you're already doing it.

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AAB

You can't beat any sense into Obama sheep. They are rats following the Pied Piper, but you'll find more common sense and intelligence in rats.

helterskelter808

This has to be the best movie plot synopsis I have ever read.

Agent 488

knew j orlin, rip. but Riconosciuto and Gunderson both compulsive liars, frauds and cranks.

have any sources besides mentally ill cranks who make up shit to get attention?

Agent 488

you don't even know what PROMIS is.

mikesinner

Americans would have to be idiots to believe that. You really think the republicans would keep the body hidden when it could have guaranteed them a win in 08?

I swear there are so many Americans that are dumber than shit.

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Agent 488

very little proof - if any - that the US gave weapons to the Afghan Mujahideen, let alone trained them, nothing at all that he was on any payroll.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA-Osa...en_controversy

Dirty Dane

Alex Jones is always a trusted source.

onwebcam

It's was a backdoor to be used by governments. Stolen and has become PTECH.

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Agent 488

how does it control a plane?

ShellyCrash

There's just no way the Bush administration would sit on that info only to years later let the Obama administration take the credit.

The only person releasing that info at this current time benefits is Obama. On the global political stage there are many times when releasing that info could have better benefited the US.

If they released the pictures conspiracy theorists are still going to scream fake and photoshop and all it would accomplish would be adding fuel to the fire for islamic extremists.

I think the best way to handle it is actually how they have been handeling it. Burrial at sea ensures there is no shrine. No photos so there are no graphic images used for propaganda for terrorists to try and evoke an emotional response fro their base.

They have the pics and we will probably eventually see them in 10 or 20 years. Shit, I wouldn't be surprised if they still have the body but that prob won't come out.

I know it doesn't feel as satisfying to not see the proof, but if this guy was still alive he would make another video and prove it. Half the reason ass hats do shit like this is for the noteriety. Its done. It should be given as little fanfare as possible.

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Agent 488

ironically the compound is turning into a shrine / holy place already.

onwebcam

A morphed version of PROMIS is used by many governments to do a lot of things.. Including but not limited to running the FAA. It's a backdoor with more or less artificial intelligence so being able to turn off/on autopilot on an airplane is very minor in it's capabilities.

Promis
by Michael C. Ruppert
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/fre...01_promis.html

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Agent 488

i know about that. but you have any real sources beyond the speculations of an ex-cop who has had multiple mental breakdowns during his life and a convict that PROMIS was morphed into what Ruppert claims it is now?