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DomP_nl 05-02-2011 12:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DomP_nl (Post 18102772)
fiddy dead arabs ?
whoops :P

SmokeyTheBear 05-02-2011 12:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott McD (Post 18102750)
1. They asked for it.

2. They are no loss and no use to the world.

3. They smell.

4. They posted "links pulled" 20 times a day.


The list goes on...
very umm logical list :Oh crap

Vick! 05-02-2011 12:19 PM
While I kind of agree with you that no one has right to play God, and everyone draws line differently.

But my friend, the world is not an ideal place. Here, you should not fuck with someone who have more money and power than you do.

The one with power, makes the rules.

So, chill. He did what he could, and US did what it could.

Scott McD 05-02-2011 12:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeyTheBear (Post 18102774)
very umm logical list :Oh crap
As logical as the original point of this thread. :upsidedow

baddog 05-02-2011 12:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeyTheBear (Post 18102648)
cnn is saying bin laden is dead , so you are saying bin laden is alive ? ok then. You are standing too close to the pipes baddog.
Nice spin? You are not very good at this. :upsidedow

pornpf69 05-02-2011 01:23 PM
Americans will never agree that what they did was wrong... they won't even agree that they should not get involved with things that are not about them like VIETNAM, PAKISTAN and many other countries...
saying that they killed Bin Laden in self defense is agreeing that the 911 was also self defense since they were hunting Bin Laden for quite a LONG TIME...
it is all a matter of which side you are standing when looking at the facts...
Americans can never see things from a different perspective...

dyna mo 05-02-2011 01:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pornpf69 (Post 18102946)
Americans will never agree that what they did was wrong... they won't even agree that they should not get involved with things that are not about them like VIETNAM, PAKISTAN and many other countries...
saying that they killed Bin Laden in self defense is agreeing that the 911 was also self defense since they were hunting Bin Laden for quite a LONG TIME...
it is all a matter of which side you are standing when looking at the facts...
Americans can never see things from a different perspective...
i don't see your point?

Phoenix 05-02-2011 01:25 PM
eh..the way i see it..is if you are such a bad ass that the american president knows your name and could send navy seals after you..then you get what you get

SmokeyTheBear 05-02-2011 01:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by baddog (Post 18102805)
Nice spin?
nice spin ? you claimed it wasn't true because it was on cnn ..

then in the foxnews thread you insinuated things weren't funny unless you were perfect and that you only laughed at people falling down because you have never fallen down ever in your life..:winkwink:

biased a little :2 cents::1orglaugh

SmokeyTheBear 05-02-2011 01:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenix (Post 18102952)
eh..the way i see it..is if you are such a bad ass that the american president knows your name and could send navy seals after you..then you get what you get
i would have respected obama alot more if he said that..:thumbsup

SmokeyTheBear 05-02-2011 01:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott McD (Post 18102794)
As logical as the original point of this thread. :upsidedow
i know you are but what am i ..

crockett 05-02-2011 01:51 PM
Smokey, normally it seems you have a bit of common sense. However not in this topic, you are just being dumb..

helterskelter808 05-02-2011 01:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vick! (Post 18102777)
While I kind of agree with you that no one has right to play God, and everyone draws line differently.

But my friend, the world is not an ideal place. Here, you should not fuck with someone who have more money and power than you do.

The one with power, makes the rules.

So, chill. He did what he could, and US did what it could.
The greatest thing about the USA is that the people who founded it had no idea it would become the world's greatest power, which it has only done in the last 70 years.

The worst thing is the USA and too many Americans seem to have a special mentality that violence, agression and killing is the best response to any problem.

The latter doesn't seem to be the case in other democracies, but they are all too weak to 'police' the world. Only Russia and China are powerful enough to become dominant, and neither of those countries has the checks and balances, legally and constitutionally, that the USA has (thanks to the founding fathers).

For all its faults, if there has to be an 'alpha' country in the world, the USA is by far the best alternative.

What the USA did to Osama (if you believe it) is nothing, and quite deserved if he was responsible for the WTC attacks, compared to the unforgivable and rogue way it (or Bush and his cronies) behaved after 9/11.

baddog 05-02-2011 02:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeyTheBear (Post 18102955)
nice spin ? you claimed it wasn't true because it was on cnn ..
I NEVER said that.

SmokeyTheBear 05-02-2011 02:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by baddog (Post 18103072)
I NEVER said that.
you just think it right ? :winkwink: make up your mind baddog.

either cnn is lying and baddog is correct or cnn is telling the truth and baddog is implying they are lying about it..

you could be right baddog and cnn could be out to get you to make you look bad on gfy.

Dead 05-02-2011 05:06 PM
ObomaFather. He called the hit and the family took care of it! Fogetaboutit;)
The US of us is run like the fucking mob ran the country during prohibition. Stiffarmed and lots of CYA or is it CIA, the two confuse me?
Glad the fuck is dead, but I do agree, would have been nice to bring him in and make it hurt a wee bit longer. That is, if he can truly be proved guilty (and admitting it on national TV) for the crimes he committed or if he was just making the call for a hit?

Si 05-02-2011 05:37 PM
Not being funny,

But not long after 9/11 and the attacks in the UK and Madrid

Many people would have loved to hear the words "Bin Laden has been killed in a missile attack"

When they went into Iraq, although not as many people agreed with this war, people would have loved to hear the words "Saddam has been killed in a missile strike in baghdad"

Now there is people fighting in Libya and I bet many people still want to hear the words "Colonel Ghaddafi has been killed by a missile attack in Tripoli"

In WW2 I bet there was many people wishing "Hitler has been killed by a bomb"

The list goes on.....

I'm not trying to make any point with this post, just saying a lot of people wanted or want people dead for what they have done / or what they are doing.

Also while we are on the subject of justice.

Check out the movie "The Tortured" very good movie that will get people thinking about justice/laws.

Bill8 05-02-2011 06:09 PM
people don't actually practice christianity or follow the general moral precepts of monotheism. they expouse it as it suits their needs and ignore it when it doesn't.

they especially don't practice the moral precepts when other tribes are involved, or with people they have defined as "not one of us".

and the affairs of nations have never been conducted by monotheistic moral precepts.

Bama 05-02-2011 06:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeyTheBear (Post 18102196)

If you agree with bin laden being murdered , you must also agree that there are reasons people deserve to be killed.
The major flaw in your logic is that YOU don't get to dictate the terms of what/how one belief effects, or is related to, another.

SmokeyTheBear 05-03-2011 07:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by baddog (Post 18102445)
It only sounds like a hit squad because it makes for a better thread.
U.S. special forces set out to kill Osama bin Laden and dump his body in the sea to make it harder for the al Qaeda founder to become a martyr, U.S. national security officials told Reuters on Monday.
"This was a kill operation," one of the officials said.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110503/..._binladen_kill

but i suppose yahoo news is probably lying to make baddog look like a retard.

SmokeyTheBear 05-03-2011 07:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bama (Post 18103544)
The major flaw in your logic is that YOU don't get to dictate the terms of what/how one belief effects, or is related to, another.
did you read what you quoted ?

if you agree with bin laden being murdered, then you must also agree there are reasons people should be killed , it is a pretty simple concept. The opposite would be that nyou agree with binladen being killed but you dont think anyone deserves to be killed , and that makes no sense so my statement is bang on.

ShellyCrash 05-03-2011 08:41 AM
If someone's primary objective is murdering innocent people, and apprehending such individual puts more lives at risk than simply taking that individual out, then yes- I don't see a problem.

It's not eye for an eye, it's removing a mass murdering asshole from assisting in the organization of future grand scale acts of violence and in effect protecting life.

SmokeyTheBear 05-03-2011 09:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShellyCrash (Post 18104747)
If someone's primary objective is murdering innocent people,
that was never their objective, that is like saying obama and bush's objective in iraq and afghanistan is to murder innocent people.. bush and obama have murdered alot more innocent people than osama has.




Quote:
Originally Posted by ShellyCrash (Post 18104747)

It's not eye for an eye, it's removing a mass murdering asshole from assisting in the organization of future grand scale acts of violence and in effect protecting life.
the same thing could be said about bush or obama the only difference is obama and bush have killed alot more people than bin laden.

You could literally fill your house with the bodies of dead babies bush and obama have had killed. but i think i follow your point .. it is ok when americans kill shitloads of innocent people but not ok for anyone else to do it on a much smaller scale.. gotcha.. killing babies is only cool if your skin isn't brown

ShellyCrash 05-03-2011 09:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeyTheBear (Post 18104810)
that was never their objective, that is like saying obama and bush's objective in iraq and afghanistan is to murder innocent people.. bush and obama have murdered alot more innocent people than osama has.
Killing civilians wasn't the objective of Osama's terror attacks? The objective of his terror attacks were to kill as many civilians as possible to create a shocking or appauling result and thus bring attention to his organization and political views. His goal for the 9-11 attacks was to cause a loss of life so great it would scar a generation's psyche.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeyTheBear (Post 18104810)
You could literally fill your house with the bodies of dead babies bush and obama have had killed. but i think i follow your point .. it is ok when americans kill shitloads of innocent people but not ok for anyone else to do it on a much smaller scale.. gotcha.. killing babies is only cool if your skin isn't brown
I hate when people throw up race or ethnicity out of the blue. I guess Obama's a white man now? :1orglaugh

But seriously, I am not defending the current wars in Afghanistan or Iraq. Life isn't black and white, just because I agree with one act of a govermnet doesn't mean I give them carte blanche to do what ever they want.

If you keep trying to lock things and people down to "if then" statements you're going to have a difficult time and also paint yourself into a corner. Just because someone agrees with something in one scenario doesn't mean they are forced to subscribe to a set pattern of thinking or judgement. If you do that you remove your own objectivity. Nothing and no one exists in this world without hypocrisy or sin, nothing worth anything does not have cost.

Removing this asshole from the planet is an act in the interest of preservation of innocent lives, even if the hand that did it is dirty as well.

czarina 05-03-2011 09:47 AM
not blind just one-eyed

pornpf69 05-03-2011 09:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dyna mo (Post 18102950)
i don't see your point?
that is exactly what I mean...

pornpf69 05-03-2011 09:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShellyCrash (Post 18104747)
If someone's primary objective is murdering innocent people, and apprehending such individual puts more lives at risk than simply taking that individual out, then yes- I don't see a problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShellyCrash (Post 18104747)
It's not eye for an eye, it's removing a mass murdering asshole from assisting in the organization of future grand scale acts of violence and in effect protecting life.
so how do you call Bush (both of them)?
would it be OK to invade the White House (when they lived there) to kill them (or wherever they are living now)
How about Jimmy Carter, Dixon, and many other USA Presidents who have been sending soldiers all over the world to kill people in order to bring "PEACE"?

pornpf69 05-03-2011 10:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShellyCrash (Post 18104747)
If someone's primary objective is murdering innocent people, and apprehending such individual puts more lives at risk than simply taking that individual out, then yes- I don't see a problem.
it is all matter of WHO IS INNOCENT... it is all a matter of perspective... what is innocent for some people might be a "crime" for other people...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShellyCrash (Post 18104747)
It's not eye for an eye, it's removing a mass murdering asshole from assisting in the organization of future grand scale acts of violence and in effect protecting life.
so how do you call Bush (both of them)?
would it be OK to invade the White House (when they lived there) to kill them (or wherever they are living now)
How about Jimmy Carter, Dixon, and many other USA Presidents who have been sending soldiers all over the world to kill people in order to bring "PEACE"?

ShellyCrash 05-03-2011 10:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pornpf69 (Post 18104992)
so how do you call Bush (both of them)?
would it be OK to invade the White House (when they lived there) to kill them (or wherever they are living now)
How about Jimmy Carter, Dixon, and many other USA Presidents who have been sending soldiers all over the world to kill people in order to bring "PEACE"?
You should read my last comments. :2 cents:

lazycash 05-03-2011 10:02 AM
Smokey, what is your ethnicity?

will76 05-03-2011 10:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeyTheBear (Post 18102196)
leaves the whole world blind..:2 cents:

If you agree with bin laden being murdered , you must also agree that there are reasons people deserve to be killed. If there are legit reasons to murder someone , who decides what is legit, who is to say obamas reasons are better than bin ladens reasons. You and i certainly don't get to decide if those reasons are fair. We are basically handing the decision over to obama. In a nutshell we are giving obama the right to decide who lives and who dies ( i.e. god )


murder is wrong because there is never a legitimate reason to murder someone.

Killing someone as punishment for killing someone is the most illogical thinking.

I did not vote for obama to be god or decide who lives and dies. We as americans should be ashamed that we are no better than "them"

Would have been interesting to have a world vote. or even better , try him before a court and let the victims families decide on his fate/punishment..
you sound pathetic with posts like this.

SmokeyTheBear 05-03-2011 12:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShellyCrash (Post 18104947)
Killing civilians wasn't the objective of Osama's terror attacks? The objective of his terror attacks were to kill as many civilians as possible to create a shocking or appauling result and thus bring attention to his organization and political views. His goal for the 9-11 attacks was to cause a loss of life so great it would scar a generation's psyche.
replace the word 9-11 in what you just said above with "iraq invasion" and osama with george bush..


Quote:
Originally Posted by ShellyCrash (Post 18104947)

I hate when people throw up race or ethnicity out of the blue.
out of the blue ? what have you been smoking lol

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShellyCrash (Post 18104947)
If you keep trying to lock things and people down to "if then" statements you're going to have a difficult time and also paint yourself into a corner.
was a simple fact not a question or comment . if you think killing is justified then you must believe there are justified reasons to kill... if so what are the reasons and does it not make you a pussy for allowing someone else make those decisions without your input but use you as a reason.

SmokeyTheBear 05-03-2011 12:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by will76 (Post 18105150)
you sound pathetic with posts like this.
that was a very logical and well thought out response , illustrating your points of contention perfectly and debunking each of the issues with methodical precision .:thumbsup:thumbsup

pornpf69 05-03-2011 12:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShellyCrash (Post 18105004)
You should read my last comments. :2 cents:
that was made while I was writing my reply...
I think that some people deserve to die... but I am not the one to DO IT... and no other HUMAN BEING SHOULD DO IT (unless they are cannibal and do it for feeding)...

SmokeyTheBear 05-03-2011 12:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lazycash (Post 18105008)
Smokey, what is your ethnicity?
i am german and jamaican, so that makes me germaican ( it's delicious on toast )

ShellyCrash 05-03-2011 01:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeyTheBear (Post 18105374)
replace the word 9-11 in what you just said above with "iraq invasion" and osama with george bush..
You're talking to a "bleeding heart" liberal who was against the invasion of Iraq since day 1 and thinks the Bush administration should be investigated for war crimes and I'm sorry, but even I know the difference between an act of terrorism and an unjust occupation of a country.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeyTheBear (Post 18105374)
out of the blue ? what have you been smoking lol
It is out of the blue. When did I say anything about race? You said that in response to my comments which to me was out of the blue. And incase you didn't notice, our current president is brown. :1orglaugh


Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeyTheBear (Post 18105374)
was a simple fact not a question or comment . if you think killing is justified then you must believe there are justified reasons to kill... if so what are the reasons and does it not make you a pussy for allowing someone else make those decisions without your input but use you as a reason.
I do believe there are justified reasons to kill, but just because I feel a killing was justified it doesn't mean I think ALL killings are.

Morally people draw their lines in different places. What you're doing is taking where someone is choosing to draw a line in one instance and then forcing the line across the page to apply to multiple situations and scenarios, which is unfair and unreasonable.

You can't paint everything with the same brush, Smokey.

directfiesta 05-03-2011 03:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dyna mo (Post 18102950)
i don't see your point?
no surprise ....:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

SmokeyTheBear 05-03-2011 05:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShellyCrash (Post 18105677)
You're talking to a "bleeding heart" liberal who was against the invasion of Iraq since day 1 and thinks the Bush administration should be investigated for war crimes and I'm sorry, but even I know the difference between an act of terrorism and an unjust occupation of a country.
if they result in the same outcome or in our case the unjust occupation kills 100 times the people , what is the difference ?

are you saying hitler was better than a terrorist because he used gas chambers instead of terrorism ? the millions he killed doesn't matter , a terrorist is worse for killing one man


Quote:
Originally Posted by ShellyCrash (Post 18105677)
It is out of the blue.

sorry my bad , there has never been an issue with race and bin laden&9/11 :Oh crap bringing up race as an issue on middle east discussions is silly..





Quote:
Originally Posted by ShellyCrash (Post 18105677)
our current president is brown. :1orglaugh
i was referring to the victim not the perp. :2 cents: in case you didn't notice , our president is not a baby

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShellyCrash (Post 18105677)
I do believe there are justified reasons to kill,
and do you think everyone shares the same list of justified killings ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShellyCrash (Post 18105677)
but just because I feel a killing was justified it doesn't mean I think ALL killings are.
nobody said or implied that in any way, glad you feel that way though..

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShellyCrash (Post 18105677)
Morally people draw their lines in different places. What you're doing is taking where someone is choosing to draw a line in one instance and then forcing the line across the page to apply to multiple situations and scenarios, which is unfair and unreasonable.

You can't paint everything with the same brush, Smokey.
if you believe that is my opinion then you obviously have gotten your lines crossed.

What you just said is exactly the opposite of what you are arguing. I am not painting anything with any brush. what i said was eye for an eye is bad advice , and letting obama draw your lines for you without your permission but on your behalf is handing him way too much power.

I am interested in your list of justified killings though..if you got the cahones.

What i am saying is , your list right now doesn't matter and nobody else's does either. All that matters is obamas list.. and that maybe we should let the judicial system we have designed to deal with these questions make the list.. That is how we currently do it.. I live in texas ,we have the death penalty, it is a process, there is evidence , there is a jury of your peers if you choose, there is dignity. we choose this process , we could simplify it by shooting them in the head in the middle of the night , but we have learned that having this process makes us a better people..

ShellyCrash 05-03-2011 08:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeyTheBear (Post 18106154)
if they result in the same outcome or in our case the unjust occupation kills 100 times the people , what is the difference ?

are you saying hitler was better than a terrorist because he used gas chambers instead of terrorism ? the millions he killed doesn't matter , a terrorist is worse for killing one man





sorry my bad , there has never been an issue with race and bin laden&9/11 :Oh crap bringing up race as an issue on middle east discussions is silly..






i was referring to the victim not the perp. :2 cents: in case you didn't notice , our president is not a baby



and do you think everyone shares the same list of justified killings ?


nobody said or implied that in any way, glad you feel that way though..


if you believe that is my opinion then you obviously have gotten your lines crossed.

What you just said is exactly the opposite of what you are arguing. I am not painting anything with any brush. what i said was eye for an eye is bad advice , and letting obama draw your lines for you without your permission but on your behalf is handing him way too much power.

I am interested in your list of justified killings though..if you got the cahones.

What i am saying is , your list right now doesn't matter and nobody else's does either. All that matters is obamas list.. and that maybe we should let the judicial system we have designed to deal with these questions make the list.. That is how we currently do it.. I live in texas ,we have the death penalty, it is a process, there is evidence , there is a jury of your peers if you choose, there is dignity. we choose this process , we could simplify it by shooting them in the head in the middle of the night , but we have learned that having this process makes us a better people..
I've already answered most of this, you can go back and read it if you want.

You keep saying that you're not trying to create if / then assumptions about what people think is right, but in the opening post on this thread and in almost every reply you've made you pretty much say "Well, if you think thats OK you MUST think this is OK too..." which as I've stated more than once I think is some bullshit.

You also seem to think what happened with Bin Laden couldn't happen in the US, but if you take a step back that happens here all the time. Take an armed fugitive, admitted murderer, and put him in a house with guns. When the US Marshalls show up if that fugative doesn't surrender immediately and come out with his hands above his head what do you think happens? They go in with guns blazing. That happens in Florida, you can't tell me they don't do that in Texas.

Anyway, I'm not going to go round robin all night and turn this into some 12 pager. You can do that with someone else if you want. I don't know why you're empathizing with this shit stain like he's fucking Andy Dufresne. He was a fucking live wire who hated your infidel guts and would cut your head off and broadcast it on youtube if given the opportunity.

papill0n 05-03-2011 08:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeyTheBear (Post 18102196)
leaves the whole world blind..:2 cents:

If you agree with bin laden being murdered , you must also agree that there are reasons people deserve to be killed. If there are legit reasons to murder someone , who decides what is legit, who is to say obamas reasons are better than bin ladens reasons. You and i certainly don't get to decide if those reasons are fair. We are basically handing the decision over to obama. In a nutshell we are giving obama the right to decide who lives and who dies ( i.e. god )


murder is wrong because there is never a legitimate reason to murder someone.

Killing someone as punishment for killing someone is the most illogical thinking.

I did not vote for obama to be god or decide who lives and dies. We as americans should be ashamed that we are no better than "them"

Would have been interesting to have a world vote. or even better , try him before a court and let the victims families decide on his fate/punishment..
Dude there is no fucking god - believe that shit.

papill0n 05-03-2011 08:29 PM
shelly knows what time it is :thumbsup

theking 05-03-2011 08:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeyTheBear (Post 18105379)
that was a very logical and well thought out response , illustrating your points of contention perfectly and debunking each of the issues with methodical precision .:thumbsup:thumbsup
More logical and thought out then the pigshit you are posting.

ShellyCrash 05-03-2011 08:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by papill0n (Post 18106557)
shelly knows what time it is :thumbsup
Danke :thumbsup

SmokeyTheBear 05-03-2011 08:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShellyCrash (Post 18106542)
You keep saying that you're not trying to create if / then assumptions about what people think is right, but in the opening post on this thread and in almost every reply you've made you pretty much say "Well, if you think thats OK you MUST think this is OK too..." which as I've stated more than once I think is some bullshit.
i program .. if then is a statement not an opinion.

if you have 2 apples and 1 guy eats one THEN YOU HAVE 1 APPLE.

if you agree a killing is justified then YOU MUST also agree there are justified reasons to kill.. duh.. figure it out. it is basic english programming not a debate.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ShellyCrash (Post 18106542)
That happens in Florida, you can't tell me they don't do that in Texas.
this was planned as a "kill mission" , we dont plan "kill missions" anywhere except before a judge and jury..

"U.S. special forces set out to kill Osama bin Laden and dump his body in the sea to make it harder for the al Qaeda founder to become a martyr, U.S. national security officials told Reuters"

SmokeyTheBear 05-03-2011 08:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by theking (Post 18106561)
More logical and thought out then the pigshit you are posting.
yet you don't have the guts or brains to debate with logic.. :thumbsup


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