B.Barnato

i stoled 50

harvey

in a thread with such a display of ....errrr.... funny posts, I think this one takes the prize!

Now, tell me the truth, you don't have a fucking idea who Pol Pot was, right?

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Overload

HAH! i laff my ass off ... if china stops giving you money you will live in a 3rd world country!!! americans live on DEBTS where chinese collect money every month ... you missed smth there

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Sausage

True.

The US is living on a Chinese credit line.

Waiting for the first ignorant yank to say "well we just won't pay them back!"... ;)

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helterskelter808

7h3y pwn j00!

$5 submissions

Quoted for Truth.

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Amputate Your Head

well we just won't pay them back!

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SIG TOO BIG

$5 submissions

Start worrying, Jim. That day is HERE. http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/90...2/7180676.html

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papill0n

Well it's not hard to pick the dickheads who didn't even bother to read article before posting their bullshit.

L-Pink

Some very, very interesting posts and video. Thank you.

TheDoc

If they cut the Bush Tax out, revenue to spending would almost instantly match up.... we aren't as far off as you think, we truly make that much f'in money.

The moment they stop buying our bonds and the dollar greatly slips, the cost of doing business with them will sky rocket. The are a sub-economy of America, if our money flow stops, they stop. They're as much part of the lie as every American citizen is.

I think of China as another Tax, that moves our citizens money to China, and back to the Fed, which ends up in the hands of the major corps and most of it spent on the war machine. A war machine that produces hundreds of billions of dollars for our Corporations, props up nation, supports supply chains throughout the world, and keeps this bucket of bolts we call America, moving.

It wont end... it will simply move, the production of wealth will never stop.

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mynameisjim

But that's misleading, first because of the population differences, and also the stage at which China is in compared to the U.S. and Japan.

China is desperate for innovation. Do you know how U.S. companies like Google get permission to do business in China? They give them technology. Every company that does business in China gives them technology to do so, that's the secret deal that goes on behind the scenes. So everything China gets is old and they are happy to get it.

But I bash America as much as I praise it. But you can't build a culture that embraces innovation in 5, 10, or even 50 years. It takes generations, if it even happens. Americans are probably the laziest and some of the poorest educated in all first world countries, yet we still innovate in technology, music, film and just about everything else. It's a cultural thing that other countries simply can't copy.

China simply doesn't have the culture to succeed. Some day, some country will surpass America, but it won't be China, and it won't be in the next few years.

America is in the dumps right now and our politicians and businessmen are making it worse. But some kids in a garage or a college lab somewhere are developing the next big thing, just like Steve Jobs and Bill Gates did a few decades ago. Once it happens, it will be profitable to invest in America again and all that money going overseas will start being invested here. Will it be artificial intelligence? Bio? Alternative energy? Who knows? But if you were a betting man, the odds would be on it coming out of America.

Just to be clear, I'm not defending America here, I'm just being objective. Personally, I could care less either way. I hope every country in the world has an economic boom because I'm a businessman, and the more wealth floating around, the more I make. So I hope China has a huge middle class, and India, and every other country. It makes us all richer.

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harvey

Sorry, but as funny as this thread is going, you gotta stop at some point. First you were saying that China has no patents and the problem about IP, then when proven wrong you say it's "all relative" because of the number of people (how curious, Mexico has a lot less patents than Japan or Germany and they have a lot more people). Then, you say something about "the next Bill Gates" and innovation and yadda yadda. Well, newsflash: maybe a new Bill Gates is in the making, and whatever he/she creates will be copied with 1/100th of costs production. Furthermore, that new Bill Gates WILL GO TO CHINA TO HAVE HIS/HER HEW TECHNOLOGY BUILT FOR CHEAP.

I could continue on everything you have said in this thread, but I don't have time nor the will to do it. So, let me simplify: as much as your vision is great and would be amazing if there was at least a shadow of truth, 99.9% of political analysts, economists, technology people and so on is worried because reality is THE EXACT OPPOSITE OF WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. Even Chinese people (long to explain, but there are many reasons). So, all world leaders are worried but GFY knows some hidden truth that will shed a new light over everything thousands of the smartest and most informed people in the world knows? Aaaaaw I'm so proud of being part of this community!

PS: the "I'm just being objective" part made me chuckle

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mynameisjim

How was I proven wrong about China intellectual property? Show me all the innovation coming out of China. Patents don't mean shit. There are patents for penis enlarging machines and everything else. There are no requirements for filing a patent other than it being unique. There is no criteria for it being useful or anything else. The shear number of patents don't mean anything.

But tell you what, and I mean this with absolute certainty. Bookmark this thread and if China rules the world as the #1 super power in 10 years, I'll wire you $10K. No questions asked. If they are not, you owe me $1. Do we have a deal?

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harvey

well, based on many analysts, you can pay me right now

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potential_superpowers
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BRIC
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...72R6FQ20110331
http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/china/doctrine/0046.htm
http://patriotupdate.com/oldsite/exc...ld-Super-Power
http://geraldcelentechannel.blogspot...y-2025-as.html

there you have, documented from all points of view: objective, right wing, ultra-right wing, lefties, different countries, economic visions, technology visions, military visions... how do you want to pay?

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mynameisjim

Lol, so posting several opinion based articles that support your point of view constitutes proof?

Second of all, in your first reference, how is a list of "potential superpowers" proof that China WILL be the number one superpower? Not to mention, it starts with the following caveat, yet you post it as proof. Did you even bother to read it?

From your own first reference supporting your viewpoint.

Not to mention, nobody argued the fact that China is a growing and powerful economy, the argument is whether they will take over as the dominant super power this decade. Most of your references are useless in that regard.

But let's look at the very article originally posted in this thread, the IMF stated the following response

I'm not going to bother Googling for articles that support my point of view, as it's meaningless. There are always articles to support any side of any debate. I'm sorry, but you've been arguing on GFY for too long if you think Googling a few random opinion based articles constitutes proof.

Like I said, my bet still stands. If you need the money sooner, we can change the terms to 5 years.

But I'm done arguing on the internet for today.

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mynameisjim

Can I post this as proof? ROFL. Ok, now I'm done

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MaDalton

the strength of an economy has nothing to do with the size of its army. millitary is just a waste of money.

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CaptainHowdy

Such a fascinating character ...

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Chezter

In fact most experts says that China will start to slow down very soon because of corruption, rule of one party and all this shit, future number one will be probably India.

TheDoc

Agreed.... I would put India above China as well, even though India has it's own social issues, which will slow them down, however they're still decades ahead of China.

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harvey

yes of course I read it. I'm just posting people that says China is a superpower NOW and people saying China is a POTENTIAL superpower. That's what objectivity means, take external sources and try to take a conclusion off them. Saying "because I say so" with no references isn't very objective.

About the IMF reference: they shared a document which says something. Then, ONLY AFTER NOTICING WHAT THEY DID they released a comment saying there words were "misunderstood". Maybe. Then the article continues explaining why there's no misunderstanding, i won't post the reasons, just read it. But let me add this: comparing GDP head to head when life in China is 200 times cheaper, when people doesn't have to pay for housing, health, education... ANYTHING but food (to some point), clothing (if they want something better than what state gives them) and entertainment is simply nonsense. Both in an absolute and in a relative way, Chinese economy is bigger (or almost) than US and it's growing while US economy is retracting. And there's no way you can deny it, objective data shows it, even IMF's data!

Even worse: in US, the money is in millions of hands who may decide not to share it for common benefit. In China, money is in ONE hand. Quite a difference.

And let's not start on political geo-strategy: China is getting into South America and Africa without shooting a single bullet and getting more benefits than all US invasions combined. They're helping other countries to grow to a level they can cut a lot of US trading (Brazil, Argentina, Venezuela, South Africa) while getting oil, uranium, gold, silver, platinum, grains. All of this without shooting a single bullet, not a single Chinese dead, no more money than what decent to big US city may spend in a couple months.

And on top of that, they're breaking the political balance in Far East, which can lead to really unexpected and severe troubles. There are words of an Asian coalition against China before they get eaten. If this coalition is formed, US will need to take a stand: if they support the coalition, China may react with war against their neighbors (and believe me, US will never attack China) and US will need to increase the money spent on those countries. Lose-lose situation. If US supports China, then they may be digging their own grave AND turmoil in Asia may be expected anyway. Again, lose-lose situation.

Really, you need not to hide your head in the sand, this is happening and it's a real problem RIGHT NOW, and it's becoming only worse. Like the Chinese cursing says: " I wish you live interesting times". Times are becoming interesting indeed

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CDSmith

Harvey, just take the deal. Or do I need to post links so you can read up on the "no way to lose" scenario? :D


In the end if China's economy surpases all others it will be due to their sheer numbers and nothing else. Jim is right in that it will never be as robust an economy as that of the US. (whatever that means)

Does the well-being of the US center around being the largest economy anyway? I don't think it does. I'm sure that whatever happens with China, or India for that matter, the rest of the G8 nations will be just fine.

Barring another world war that is.

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