|
Quote:
Your logic is so twisted it's rather sad.... Bush's plan cost as much as an entire healthcare bill with pills included in it. That means Obama's plan was far BETTER, not worse at any level or angle. Even comparing them, is silly - Obama basically kicked his ass in with the healthcare plan, all around. You can't cut Medicare, not without something to replace it with - bingo! And if they would leave SS alone it would be fine. None of that other trash makes a difference... get on the wagon to improve what we have rather than trying to revert back to a system that has already failed America. And for the love of god, stop trying to translate Obama's speeches into your own twisted meanings. |
Quote:
what he says is that medicare part b wasn't paid for in the bill that created it. I don't see any part in which he compares the costs. your credibility suffers when you keep deliberately misprepresenting what the quoted lines are saying. --- as for cutting entitlements, go ahead, do it. I'll never see any of that money, I don't care if you cut it. I think your side should do it, so do it. I'm still waiting to see your side start to repeal the affordable care act. nobody really knows wether the affordable care act will actually reduce medicare and medicaid, as obama and others claim. it might, there's no way to tell at this point, but anybody who believes it is doing so on faith, not because we understand how the bill will work in the real world. |
Quote:
one hears this and one hears that - I was surprised when searching that I couldn't instantly find a website with good accounting and comparison. |
Quote:
The big cost was seniors back pockets. They had to cover more up front, more monthly, more of the pills, and when the gap part ended, a % of all pills was paid. Give or take fine details - and it was different for different regions/states... so it was confusing to old people as well. I don't think we could ever know what it really cost America, trillionS (already, let alone the future costs) is a huge number to keep track of... |
Obamacare downshifts the costs to the states. Insurance and taxes are going to go up for the avg citizen but the "cost" for the federal government may appear to go down.
If "downshifting" is a new term to you I suggest you look it up. :thumbsup |
Quote:
|
Quote:
Insurance goes up ONLY when insurance companies increase the rates... covering more people lowers rates in every Country in the world, so if they increase it - they alone are fucking us over. Well the average citizen already pays an extreme amount more than the next Countries citizen pays - so we have some room to work with on getting the costs down, but that's going to be the people doing something about it... |
Quote:
I do not know if your ignorance is on purpose or if you just do not know how business works. Health CARE costs are going up yet you all expect insurance rates to stay flat. It is actually pretty comical. |
Quote:
|
Quote:
The Fed insurance is not more expensive, it never has been for anyone, ever... if WE covered 100% of Medicare out of our pockets, we would be paying a SHIIIITIITTITITTTT to more, trillions and trillions more. Yep, Maine got it a partial waiver because the Insurance companies already pay X amount per dollar on 'everyone' in the State. The waiver doesn't exempt the state from Coverage - they still have to provide every State citizen with coverage. |
Quote:
|
Quote:
I've lived in a Socialized Country before, so your idea of how this can and does work, is greatly incorrect. I never said insurance rates would remain flat, I said if they go up it's insurance companies 100% doing it, and that's a fact. |
Quote:
|
Quote:
|
Quote:
|
Quote:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-11579979 Quote:
Quote:
|
Quote:
Is it perfect? Hell no... is it cheaper than what we have, GREATLY! |
Quote:
|
The entire US healthcare debacle is/was a joke. In my mind, without a public option, that bill is somewhat useless. You either need to nationalize health care, or at the very least, allow the government to administer its own insurance plan within the free market. Why so much fear in allowing the government to compete with the free market? Other than the fact Republicans are busy sucking the cocks of their corporate masters, of course.
Medicare / Medicaid has a 3 - 4% overhead, whereas private insurers have a 30 - 35% overhead. Why not allow the government to compete in that market? Government can offer its own plan, probably at 20% discounted rates than others, forcing the competition to lower their own rates. Seems like a no-brainer to me, but nope, can't have that in the US. I remember when the debate was going on, a survey was taken in Canada, asking if people like socialized health care, or would prefer the American privatized system. A resounding amount of Canadians, around 95%, said they were happy with the socialized health care, and didn't want a privatized system. I could be wrong, but I would imagine the same would go for Scandanvian and Western European countries as well. |
Quote:
The only close thing you got right was some companies paying more, yeah companies with over 100 staff, not covering people, will have to pay more. And hey, if we're all playing on the same equal playing ground, doesn't that give the free market a better chance? Oh, snap! You, me, and the majority of small companies in America, won't have to pay shit, we never qualify. |
^You are talking about countries smaller than a lot of our STATES. Of course if you ask a child if it likes getting free candy or having to work for it they will pick the free candy. That is what children do.
For what it is worth I am not sticking up for insurance companies. I think insurance should be illegal so a real free market could be created. Not what we have now where you can only buy insurance from your state so there is a closed system, helping the costs to go up. |
Quote:
|
Quote:
|
Quote:
|
Quote:
The free market is a bogus ideal that doesn't really exist, anywhere... you know that right? Other than the ability to do business, but outside of that everything is locked up and has been for a 200+ years. If you want to start an insurance company, have at it... your % of success is the same if you opened an adult company, no market is truly free anymore and will never be again. |
Quote:
|
Quote:
|
Quote:
http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/PriceControls.html |
Quote:
I'd say just move to nationalized health care, like the rest of the modern Western world. Obviously Medicare is working quite well, because nobody seems to complain about that. The only complaint you see is at Republican rallies where old ladies are holding up signs saying, "Government, keep your hands off my Medicare!" So why not expand that to the entire US population? Everyone pays say $50/month, gets a health care card, and free access to all the health care they need. All of a sudden, everyone from say 16 - 54 years old is paying $50/month into system, which will drastically reduce the liquidity problems Medicare currently has. An average 21yo only needs medical attention once a year, if that. But nah, fuck all that. The Republicans want to make teaches the scapegoats instead, and try to cut their salaries. I don't quite have the words to describe how moronic that is. |
^Because the private sector (those who have insurance/paying cash) have been subsidizing the costs of medicare/aid thus distorting the savings of medicare/aid and helping inflate the price of insurance/cash buys.
edit: Because medicare/aid does not pay the hospital enough to even cover the COST |
Quote:
|
Quote:
An equal playing field, does not mean forced prices on an entire Industry that clearly can't happen when we have inflation alone. But it's not like some regulation doesn't work... it clearly has, clearly does, and clearly can continue to improve things if WE the people keep doing our jobs. This isn't about economics... the market in this case is LONG gone. |
Quote:
|
Some price controls work..... all over the place. We could force the price of pills, we could force the allowed % of re-investments, we could force a % of profits to cover costs vs. more research and hundreds of millions in marketing, if could hard set price control at donation levels, marketing, ads, allowable to push on doctors, research, etc freeing up hundreds of billions, allowing the prices to be locked - exactly like other Countries do - exactly why other Countries do it.
That doesn't mean force an entire Industry though.... just micro parts of it - bit by bit. Mostly the parts that screw us over, so in America, pretty much all of it. Those changes happen because of Americans, not politicians. We make those laws, we vote them in, we push the messages forward. We've let them run the show far to long, and we can see what that has gotten us. |
We need a Vendzilla post now to get this thing funny again ...:2 cents:
|
Quote:
In order to have a strong nation, you must have a healthy nation. . |
| All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:05 PM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
©2000-, AI Media Network Inc123