How can i punish a member that first gives away his password and then charges back? - Page 2 - GoFuckYourself.com

MaDalton · 03-23-2011, 04:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by V_RocKs

Not sure if you will come back and read this, but you just showed how much of a newbie you are as a webmaster. Like asshat status and no offense, just stating facts here. But from a security stand point you look like a 3rd grader.

From what you posted it so so fucking blatently obvious what happened that I almost think this post is fake.

it is obvious that the unsuccessful attempts were from crackers trying to get free passwords, they got his and shared it for him most likely in a forum and others came in and used it. It got blocked. He comes in and it don't work and he thinks your are some kind of asshat and charges back.

That is what surfers do now. If the experience goes south, insta-charge back. No hesitation.

considering Carlos told me you're a nice guy in person i don't get the personal insults here - but so be it...

and yes, i am a newbie webmaster - that's why i come here. to ask and learn. and to get insulted - obviously

Quote:

Originally Posted by dgraves

this would be my guess too. this is common and i bet he had a simple login. the htpasswd file isn't that hard to get and once they have the usernames they run a script to match up possible passwords.

when this happens i reset the username and password to a more complex one. if it happenes again he's what i consider an "undesirable customer" and i keep him blocked.

and to both of you: we use 16 digit random usernames and passwords and the login attempts from various IPs and countries started right after the sign up. so your guesses are wrong.

also the "member" has not made any attempt to get in touch and ask why his password doesn't work anymore.

but i have learned from this thread to proactively contact the person next time with a new password and if it then happens again to ban him.

so thanks to those of you who made helpful contributions to this thread

DWB · 03-23-2011, 05:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaDalton

and to both of you: we use 16 digit random usernames and passwords and the login attempts from various IPs and countries started right after the sign up. so your guesses are wrong.

We used to use long random passwords and users. Holy fuck that turned into a nightmare. None of the guys could remember u7Gt&S5gs*7sg and support turned into a real headache, because no matter how many times I told them to copy and paste, they were simply unable to follow even the most simple instruction.

We ditched the random user/pass, let them choose their own 8 character combo, and cut down support by 98%.

Now we just let strongbox do what it's supposed to do and deal with with issues as they come.

You're going to get shit heads who share and chargeback. It's just part of the game. No need to punish them, just change their pass or shut them down. Spend your time making new sites or improving your existing one and don't let the members drag you down.

TheDA · 03-23-2011, 05:30 AM

Welcome to the paysite side of things.

This kind of thing is exactly how serious sharers and uploaders operate.

onedree · 03-23-2011, 05:52 AM

I definitely don't want to sound negative but I do not think anyone is going to find the "perfect" solution to this.

For instance, website logos are normally cropped from the posters preview images concealing the source of the copyrighted photograph. The remainder of your website is uploaded onto uploading.com, filefactory, turbobite, oron, etc.

A majority of my sponsors content is strewn all over the internet for anyone to download. My sales have decreased dramatically.
Anymore, it's extremely difficult having a positive experience as a webmaster.

Quote:

Originally Posted by marcop

Break his legs with a baseball bat. And ask questions later.

You might want to consider using hypnosis which is designed to help you relax.

Deidre

Machete_ · 03-23-2011, 05:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaDalton

we use 16 digit random usernames and passwords

holy shit, that can't be right

MaDalton · 03-23-2011, 06:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DirtyWhiteBoy

We used to use long random passwords and users. Holy fuck that turned into a nightmare. None of the guys could remember u7Gt&S5gs*7sg and support turned into a real headache, because no matter how many times I told them to copy and paste, they were simply unable to follow even the most simple instruction.

We ditched the random user/pass, let them choose their own 8 character combo, and cut down support by 98%.

Now we just let strongbox do what it's supposed to do and deal with with issues as they come.

You're going to get shit heads who share and chargeback. It's just part of the game. No need to punish them, just change their pass or shut them down. Spend your time making new sites or improving your existing one and don't let the members drag you down.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Machete_

holy shit, that can't be right

i admit we don't have thousands of members, but i didnt have one single request for a new password yet.

TeenCat · 03-23-2011, 06:46 AM

reason may be, that his email is hacked, and his password was posted on some private forum, cause on porn bb or other high traffic you will have thousands of tries in one day. so, i would ask him why he charged back, answer may be that he cannot login, i would send him new password and info that he have to change password to his email, otherwise next time he will be unlucky. thats where may be the problem

if somebody is buying sites to share them, he will download it full and then publish it on rapidshare etc ...

Klen · 03-23-2011, 06:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaDalton

i admit we don't have thousands of members, but i didnt have one single request for a new password yet.

Dont worry nobody have thousand of members

DWB · 03-23-2011, 06:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaDalton

i admit we don't have thousands of members, but i didnt have one single request for a new password yet.

They don't ask for a new one, they just can't remember theirs.

Once you get a good sized member base, you'll have this problem UNLESS my sites just attract idiots, which is very possible.

MaDalton · 03-23-2011, 06:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TeenCat

reason may be, that his email is hacked, and his password was posted on some private forum, cause on porn bb or other high traffic you will have thousands of tries in one day. so, i would ask him why he charged back, answer may be that he cannot login, i would send him new password and info that he have to change password to his email, otherwise next time he will be unlucky. thats where may be the problem

if somebody is buying sites to share them, he will download it full and then publish it on rapidshare etc ...

something worth considering - thanks

Shap · 03-23-2011, 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DirtyWhiteBoy

Work harder hoss.

I come across Twistys entire site rips fairly often.

So do I. One of our big pushes against it starts this week.

Shap · 03-23-2011, 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamianJ

Shap says to treat the paying customer like a king and let them download what they PAID FOR.

Paul says to punish the customers and limit their speeds and tell them to fuck off for having the audacity to want to download what they have paid for.

Hmm...

Paul should just email them a list of the best tube sites at the same time. If someone pays for porn they need to get a PREMIUM experience. You roll it all out. Everything has to be better because you are competing with FREE options that are amazing from a surfer perspective.

Shap · 03-23-2011, 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaDalton

i admit we don't have thousands of members, but i didnt have one single request for a new password yet.

Just because you haven't had a request doesn't always mean it's a good thing. We tried random passes too. NIGHTMARE. Put yourself in the surfer's shoes. Do you want a password you can't remember? Or something easy you know and can remember?

Always put yourself in their shoes first and then try to build your site catering to that.
Would you like to pay for limited download speed?
Would you like to pay and not be able to download the content?
would you like to pay and have a limit on how much you can download today?
Would you like to pay and be told sorry you can't download 5 files at once?

Put yourself in their shoes. They took the leap and said fuck tubes I'm going to try to get a premium experience. What is that premium experience you are providing?

CaptainHowdy · 03-23-2011, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TeenCat

reason may be, that his email is hacked, and his password was posted on some private forum, cause on porn bb or other high traffic you will have thousands of tries in one day. so, i would ask him why he charged back, answer may be that he cannot login, i would send him new password and info that he have to change password to his email, otherwise next time he will be unlucky. thats where may be the problem

if somebody is buying sites to share them, he will download it full and then publish it on rapidshare etc ...

A reasonable reply, something really hard to find arond here

...

SZNY · 03-23-2011, 07:37 AM

Interesting reading here :D we are going to launch a few pay sites in the near future and this is pretty educational

Sid70 · 03-23-2011, 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaDalton

asshat...

signupdamnit · 03-23-2011, 08:00 AM

Instead of long random usernames and passwords you might consider a more hybrid approach. Let the user pick their own unique username. Also allow them to pick their own reasonable password with minimum requirements but add on a second component which is something easily remembered to help ensure it is more secure than a straight user password alone.

User picks "Zygote5" as password. Randomized component is "blue"
Actual Password: "Zygote5-blue"

The second component isn't secure in itself but it adds enough complexity to the user password to make it more difficult to brute force (there are easily over 100,000 usable words to use) even if the user chosen portion of the password is extremely weak.

The downside is making the user understand that they must enter "Zygote5-blue" and not just "Zygote5" but the key there is informing the user of this in the UI.

Phonetic passwords may actually be a better choice if you insist on random passwords. Other security measures such as captchas coming into play after a bad attempt would also go a long way. There are many possibilities.

V_RocKs · 03-23-2011, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaDalton

considering Carlos told me you're a nice guy in person i don't get the personal insults here - but so be it...

and yes, i am a newbie webmaster - that's why i come here. to ask and learn. and to get insulted - obviously

and to both of you: we use 16 digit random usernames and passwords and the login attempts from various IPs and countries started right after the sign up. so your guesses are wrong.

also the "member" has not made any attempt to get in touch and ask why his password doesn't work anymore.

but i have learned from this thread to proactively contact the person next time with a new password and if it then happens again to ban him.

so thanks to those of you who made helpful contributions to this thread

I am nice all around, but I am also quite blunt. Sorry if I offended you.

Zyber · 03-23-2011, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by signupdamnit

Instead of long random usernames and passwords you might consider a more hybrid approach. Let the user pick their own unique username. Also allow them to pick their own reasonable password with minimum requirements but add on a second component which is something easily remembered to help ensure it is more secure than a straight user password alone.

User picks "Zygote5" as password. Randomized component is "blue"
Actual Password: "Zygote5-blue"

The second component isn't secure in itself but it adds enough complexity to the user password to make it more difficult to brute force (there are easily over 100,000 usable words to use) even if the user chosen portion of the password is extremely weak.

The downside is making the user understand that they must enter "Zygote5-blue" and not just "Zygote5" but the key there is informing the user of this in the UI.

Phonetic passwords may actually be a better choice if you insist on random passwords. Other security measures such as captchas coming into play after a bad attempt would also go a long way. There are many possibilities.

Thanks for sharing

MaDalton · 03-23-2011, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shap

Just because you haven't had a request doesn't always mean it's a good thing. We tried random passes too. NIGHTMARE. Put yourself in the surfer's shoes. Do you want a password you can't remember? Or something easy you know and can remember?

Always put yourself in their shoes first and then try to build your site catering to that.
Would you like to pay for limited download speed?
Would you like to pay and not be able to download the content?
would you like to pay and have a limit on how much you can download today?
Would you like to pay and be told sorry you can't download 5 files at once?

Put yourself in their shoes. They took the leap and said fuck tubes I'm going to try to get a premium experience. What is that premium experience you are providing?

of course you have way more experience and you are absolutely right. but can we at least agree on this: a random user/password doesn't hurt initial conversions, more like longterm retention?

And we do allow 25 full HD videos a day to download or about 70 in SD resolution - on top of a streaming option. Pics and Zips are unlimited. with no trials. daily updated.

but i dont say i wont reconsider any decision in the future

Shap · 03-23-2011, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaDalton

of course you have way more experience and you are absolutely right. but can we at least agree on this: a random user/password doesn't hurt initial conversions, more like longterm retention?

And we do allow 25 full HD videos a day to download or about 70 in SD resolution - on top of a streaming option. Pics and Zips are unlimited. with no trials. daily updated.

but i dont say i wont reconsider any decision in the future

Correct it would affect retention.

So if I join your site I can only download 25 videos? How big are they? 1 gig each?

Stephan. Trust me on this one. Remove all limits. You will never regret it. Never let BW costs be a factor. There are options and BW and hosting solutions should never be a factor. I was serious with my offer. If it is causing you to make decisions on limiting your bw and what you offer your members hit me up. I can help you out.

SubAms · 03-23-2011, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Limiting download is the only way to go.

No it isn't. I don't have any limits and Members appreciate it. No Member is going to appreciate a limit if/when they reach it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

You need to explain why you limit downloads in a way that shows genuine members a benefit. Like slowing down your servers, maximising your profit so you can keep adding new content. And keeping the majority of customers happy.

There is NO benefit to Members with limiting what they can download, especially "genuine" Members, whatever that is. If your couple of 100 Members are slowing down your servers you seriously need to upgrade your servers, not blame them for downloading too much.
and keep adding new content? don't you just rotate yours every few months?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Had one guy complain about us limiting downloads, until I saw he had signed up for a 3 day trial and cancelled as soon as he had spent his money I was concerned.

You should be, he won't be back.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Then realised he just wanted to suck down all the content for $3.

Then don't offer 3 day trials for $3.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

He can happily fuck off. He's also a perfect candidate for pirating the content which is another thing to explain to THOSE WHO WILL AND DO PAY. These guys know what harm is being done to the good sites by piracy.

your customer service skills suck

Every single paying customer should get the same treatment whether a 3 day trial or full/multi month. If you don't want people downloading on trials then don't have trials, don't blame the customer because he takes the cheapest option.

and your FAQ is a joke surely...this made me cringe
"Blocked Account?
Naughty! Thought you'd share your password eh? Contact me with your login, email and excuse and I'll look into it."

and your ToS link doesn't work

Agent 488 · 03-23-2011, 09:25 AM

send bubba over with a bat.

american pervert · 03-23-2011, 12:04 PM

hack his email, chances are he used the same password. then go from there.

MaDalton · 03-23-2011, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shap

Correct it would affect retention.

So if I join your site I can only download 25 videos? How big are they? 1 gig each?

Stephan. Trust me on this one. Remove all limits. You will never regret it. Never let BW costs be a factor. There are options and BW and hosting solutions should never be a factor. I was serious with my offer. If it is causing you to make decisions on limiting your bw and what you offer your members hit me up. I can help you out.

yeah, 25 videos a day - and yes, they are 800-900 mb each

but ok, i can disable throttlebox for a while and see what happens. and thanks for your offer, i'll keep that in mind if my host is unwilling to negotiate - hehe. but i am paying not so much more than that right now

BlackCrayon · 03-23-2011, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaDalton

i dont make enough money yet to afford the bandwidth if everyone does that ;)

shaps entire members area is all over the net already for anyone to download. he's already made so much money it doesn't matter to him.

BlackCrayon · 03-23-2011, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shap

Correct it would affect retention.

So if I join your site I can only download 25 videos? How big are they? 1 gig each?

Stephan. Trust me on this one. Remove all limits. You will never regret it. Never let BW costs be a factor. There are options and BW and hosting solutions should never be a factor. I was serious with my offer. If it is causing you to make decisions on limiting your bw and what you offer your members hit me up. I can help you out.

so you have no issue with someone downloading your entire members area and the canceling?

Shap · 03-23-2011, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

shaps entire members area is all over the net already for anyone to download. he's already made so much money it doesn't matter to him.

Do you know how I made my money? Caring. When others were going after the quick buck my wife and I built a business backed by caring. The growth was much slower and it took time to build up. The key thing was I've listened to every request, complaint and suggestion our members have had. My comments in this thread are 100% feedback we received from our members. You can't punish good members for what bad members will do. That's no way to run a business.

Shap · 03-23-2011, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

so you have no issue with someone downloading your entire members area and the canceling?

None whatsoever. They paid they are absolutely entitled to do that.

That said if they want to download 50 terabytes of Twistys go right ahead ;)

Shap · 03-23-2011, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

so you have no issue with someone downloading your entire members area and the canceling?

To be honest our site may be different from others. I'm not sure. I know our members are collectors. they download it all. They'll cancel. Wait a few months come back and pick up where they left off.

camsvipdotcom · 03-23-2011, 02:42 PM

subscribe him to all the stuff you hate to find in your inbox each day
that's a punishment you can never get out of unless you change your address.

V_RocKs · 03-23-2011, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by camsvipdotcom

subscribe him to all the stuff you hate to find in your inbox each day
that's a punishment you can never get out of unless you change your address.

Dating API's...

03-23-2011, 06:46 AM	#57
TeenCat Too lazy to set a koala Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: CZ/EU forever! Posts: 16,139	reason may be, that his email is hacked, and his password was posted on some private forum, cause on porn bb or other high traffic you will have thousands of tries in one day. so, i would ask him why he charged back, answer may be that he cannot login, i would send him new password and info that he have to change password to his email, otherwise next time he will be unlucky. thats where may be the problem if somebody is buying sites to share them, he will download it full and then publish it on rapidshare etc ... __________________ 6bot / Coming again very soon! Svit Zlin Radio 24/7!

03-23-2011, 07:37 AM	#65
SZNY SZNY Industry Role: Join Date: May 2004 Location: Sexy Republic Posts: 2,800	Interesting reading here :D we are going to launch a few pay sites in the near future and this is pretty educational __________________ Telegram: sandroanthonio

03-23-2011, 12:04 PM	#74
american pervert Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 6,830	hack his email, chances are he used the same password. then go from there. __________________ I can resist everything except temptation

03-23-2011, 02:42 PM	#81
camsvipdotcom Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 116	subscribe him to all the stuff you hate to find in your inbox each day that's a punishment you can never get out of unless you change your address. __________________ Live Sex Vip Cams

03-23-2011, 05:30 AM	#53
TheDA Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 4,665	Welcome to the paysite side of things. This kind of thing is exactly how serious sharers and uploaders operate.

03-23-2011, 08:00 AM	#67
signupdamnit Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 6,697	Instead of long random usernames and passwords you might consider a more hybrid approach. Let the user pick their own unique username. Also allow them to pick their own reasonable password with minimum requirements but add on a second component which is something easily remembered to help ensure it is more secure than a straight user password alone. User picks "Zygote5" as password. Randomized component is "blue" Actual Password: "Zygote5-blue" The second component isn't secure in itself but it adds enough complexity to the user password to make it more difficult to brute force (there are easily over 100,000 usable words to use) even if the user chosen portion of the password is extremely weak. The downside is making the user understand that they must enter "Zygote5-blue" and not just "Zygote5" but the key there is informing the user of this in the UI. Phonetic passwords may actually be a better choice if you insist on random passwords. Other security measures such as captchas coming into play after a bad attempt would also go a long way. There are many possibilities.

03-23-2011, 09:25 AM	#73
Agent 488 Registered User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 22,511	send bubba over with a bat.