France Vows to Block Iraq War Resolution: RISING OPPOSITION TO WAR CITED

[MrPopup]

Looks like France is layin' the international smackdown.

This isnt good for world relations....nor the Bush administration. I just hope France doesnt ask for the Statue of Liberty back.....

I think this marks the official "changing" of the international tides. No more political rhetoric made by chatty cabinet members or windbag political advisors.

In the current climate, France has much more political clout on the global stage than America - thus, the countries of the world will probably follow suit.

UN-sanctioned military action will never happen now...time will tell, but this news looks like the first glimpse of HOPE that the world can be thankful for in a long time.


BUT.........

My absolute favorite part of this is how little CNN and other propaganda machines cover this and will cover it....Im betting this story never makes it to the front of CNN.COM (in fact, right now their running an equally important story: "Error causes 'mistake' mastectomy")

**************************

France Vows to Block Iraq War Resolution
U.S. Schedule Put at Risk By U.N. Debate

"We think that military intervention would be the worst possible solution," French Foreign Minister Dominique de Villepin said at a news conference. (Shawn Baldwin -- AP)

UNITED NATIONS, Jan. 20 -- France suggested today it would wage a major diplomatic fight, including possible use of its veto power, to prevent the U.N. Security Council from passing a resolution authorizing military action against Iraq.

France's opposition to a war, emphatically delivered here by Foreign Minister Dominique de Villepin, is a major blow for the Bush administration, which has begun pouring tens of thousands of troops into the Persian Gulf in preparation for a military conflict this spring. The administration had hoped to mark the final phase in its confrontation with Iraq when U.N. weapons inspectors deliver a progress report Monday.

But in a diplomatic version of ambush, France and other countries used a high-level Security Council meeting on terrorism to lay down their markers for the debate that will commence next week on the inspectors' report. Russia and China, which have veto power, and Germany, which will chair the Security Council in February, also signaled today they were willing to let the inspections continue for months.

Only Britain appeared to openly support the U.S. position that Iraqi President Saddam Hussein has thwarted effective inspections.

"If war is the only way to resolve this problem, we are going down a dead end," de Villepin told reporters. "Already we know for a fact that Iraq's weapons of mass destruction programs are being largely blocked, even frozen. We must do everything possible to strengthen this process."

The United Nations, he said, should stay "on the path of cooperation. The other choice is to move forward out of impatience over a situation in Iraq to move towards military intervention. We believe that today nothing justifies envisaging military action."

Secretary of State Colin L. Powell, in the face of such comments, departed from his prepared text on terrorism and implored his colleagues to remember that the Security Council resolution passed unanimously Nov. 8 gave Iraq "a last chance" to meet its obligations. "We must not shrink from our duties and our responsibilities when the material comes before us next week," Powell said. He used a variation of the phrase "must not shrink" three more times as he addressed the council.

During the weeks of debate on the Iraq resolution, French officials had indicated they were open to some sort of military intervention if Iraq did not comply. But now the French appear to have set much higher hurdles for support.

Rising opposition to war, particularly in France, appears to have played a role in the hardening positions on the Security Council. Foreign officials are also aware of polls in the United States suggesting that support for a war drops dramatically if the Bush administration does not have U.N. approval.

While the United Nations was debating today, U.S. military officials announced that the Army is sending a force of about 37,000 soldiers, spearheaded by the Texas-based 4th Infantry Division, to the Persian Gulf region. It is the largest ground force identified among an estimated 125,000 U.S. troops ordered to deploy since Christmas Eve, the Associated Press reported.

At the United Nations, several foreign ministers said a war in Iraq would spawn more terrorist acts around the globe and, in the words of Germany's Joschka Fischer, have "disastrous consequences for long-term regional stability."

"Terrorism is far from being crushed," said Russian Foreign Minister Igor Ivanov. "We must be careful not to take unilateral steps that might threaten the unity of the entire [anti-]terrorism coalition. In this context we are strictly in favor of a political settlement of the situation revolving around Iraq."

Powell replied: "We cannot fail to take the action that may be necessary because we are afraid of what others might do. We cannot be shocked into impotence because we are afraid of the difficult choices that are ahead of us."

But when the foreign ministers emerged from the council debate and addressed reporters, it appeared that Powell's pleas had made little impact. Although President Bush said last week he was "sick and tired of games and deception," Fischer said the inspections were a success.

"Iraq has complied fully with all relevant resolutions and cooperated very closely with the U.N. team on the ground," Fischer said. "We think things are moving in the right direction, based on the efforts of the inspection team, and [they] should have all the time which is needed."

Chinese Foreign Minister Tang Jiaxuan said Monday's report should be regarded as a "new beginning" rather than an end to inspections. The chief weapons inspectors "have been talking about that there is more work to do in terms of the inspections and they need more time. I think we should respect their opinion and support their work."

De Villepin, in a lengthy and at times theatrical news conference, was asked whether France would use its veto power to thwart Washington's campaign for quick action. He said France "will shoulder its responsibilities, faithful to the principles it has."

France would never "associate ourselves with military intervention that is not supported by the international community," de Villepin added. "We think that military intervention would be the worst possible solution."

France, as chair of the Security Council this month, had organized today's meeting on terrorism in part to draw attention to its contention that the Iraq situation has detracted from the more pressing need to confront international terrorism.

De Villepin reacted coolly to suggestions, made by senior Bush administration officials Sunday, that Hussein and his top advisers be offered political asylum outside Iraq to avert a war. "The problem is something more difficult than a question of change of regime," he said. "Let us not be diverted from our objective. It is the disarmament of Iraq."

U.N. Secretary General Kofi Annan also indirectly criticized the prospect of war when he addressed the council on terrorism. "Any sacrifice of freedom or the rule of law within states -- or any generation of new disputes between states in the name of anti-terrorism -- is to hand the terrorists a victory that no act of theirs could possibly bring," he said, alluding to frequent U.S assertions that the confrontation with Iraq is part of the larger war on terrorism.

The only sign of support for the U.S. position came from its closest ally, Britain. Foreign Secretary Jack Straw said "time was running out" for Hussein and his "cat and mouse" game. But Straw added that Britain preferred a U.N. resolution authorizing force.

"Iraq has a responsibility now to avoid a conflict, to avoid a war," Powell told reporters. "There is no question that Iraq continues to misunderstand the seriousness of the position that it's in.

"If the United Nations is going to be relevant," he added, "it has to take a firm stand."


? 2003 The Washington Post Company

[Matt_WildCash]

Ummm who the hell cares what the French Govt say, the Bush Administration has already said they'll take out IRAQ with or without the pussy UN's help.

The UN couldn't wipe its own ass if it tried, they can't agree on anything. Its only there so some of the lessor countries feel like there having there say, when in the end the USA will do whatever it wants too and fair enough they are the reason we have peace around the western world today.
The middle east hates the USA not Europe so Europe is keeping itself out of the conflict. Thats there choice.

I say bring on the war, lets get some good CNN coverage this time.

[Pornwolf]

Hahaha... "France says don't do it" hahaha! France! Hahahaha!

We were only being courteous with this whole UN dance.

[theking]

Originally posted by Pornwolf
Hahaha... "France says don't do it" hahaha! France! Hahahaha!

We were only being courteous with this whole UN dance.

You have hit the nail on the head.

[FreeXXX]

France has never been one of our great allies. Many times we wanted to use their airspace for certain missions and all the times they denied us.

The only good thing that ever came out of France is
french fries and french toast...

[Turboface]

We should turn the Statue of Liberty 180 degrees.

[J-Reel]

Everytime France gets taken over, we go in a liberate the country. This is the thanks we get. Fuck'em. They wouldn't still be a country if it wasn't for the good ole USA.

[playa]

maybe it has something to do with a huge economic deal between France and Iraq?

could it be? possibly? oh no not the french

[cherrylula]

most of my family is from france, but well they don't live there anymore hehe

[Oliver Klozov]

So fucking French!

[p00p]

Originally posted by FreeXXX
France has never been one of our great allies. Many times we wanted to use their airspace for certain missions and all the times they denied us.

The only good thing that ever came out of France is
french fries and french toast...

french fries most likely originated Belgium

french toast was believed to have originated in England.

So, sorry to say, nothing good has come outta France.

[Turboface]

Originally posted by Turboface
We should turn the Statue of Liberty 180 degrees.

For the less enlightened, the Statue of Liberty is faced directly towards the country that gave it to us as a gift - France.

[MrPopup]

Originally posted by p00p


french fries most likely originated Belgium

french toast was believed to have originated in England.

So, sorry to say, nothing good has come outta France.

LOL... ignorance is everywhere i guess.

The vary notions of freedom and personal liberty that you enjoy in AMERICA - were born in France - along with the inspiration for America's own birth - the French Revolution.

Stick to javascript and popsicles - this conversation has grown too complex for you.

[ThunderBalls]

Its not only France that is against military action, try just about every other country on the planet except Britian, which are about as pussy whipped to the US as they come.

The world sees Bush as he really is, thank God.

[Gutterboy]

Originally posted by MrPopup
Rising opposition to war, particularly in France, appears to have played a role in the hardening positions on the Security Council. Foreign officials are also aware of polls in the United States suggesting that support for a war drops dramatically if the Bush administration does not have U.N. approval.

That is the key. If they can make Bush look like the lone cowboy he seems to enjoy pretending he is, he's going to lose alot of support with the American public. There is already a lively anti-war movement as evidenced by the tens of thousands of people who showed up in SF, Washington and other big cities around the US last saturday. This will give it more momentum.

Bush might turn out to be a 1 termer yet. He's ridden the updraft of terror war approval ratings and maybe gotten a bit too close to the sun. Like Icarus, the wax on his wings is starting to melt and he's got no policy parachute.. no real achievements at all when you think about it.. to catch him when the warmongering fails to bump his ratings.

[MrPopup]

Originally posted by Gutterboy

Like Icarus, the wax on his wings is starting to melt and he's got no policy parachute.. no real achievements at all when you think about it.. to catch him when the warmongering fails to bump his ratings.

The difference between Bush and Icarus?...One of them didnt posess weapons of mass destruction.

You forget that an election is easy to dictate when you control the media AND the message.

[theking]

Originally posted by Gutterboy


That is the key. If they can make Bush look like the lone cowboy he seems to enjoy pretending he is, he's going to lose alot of support with the American public. There is already a lively anti-war movement as evidenced by the tens of thousands of people who showed up in SF, Washington and other big cities around the US last saturday. This will give it more momentum.

Bush might turn out to be a 1 termer yet. He's ridden the updraft of terror war approval ratings and maybe gotten a bit too close to the sun. Like Icarus, the wax on his wings is starting to melt and he's got no policy parachute.. no real achievements at all when you think about it.. to catch him when the warmongering fails to bump his ratings.

The invasion is going to happen. The Administration stated prior to going to the UN that the USA does not need UN approval, and will act with or without UN approval. The Administration is just going through the motions, as we needed time to build up our forces in the area, anyhow. To go to the UN during this period is no harm, no foul, as far as the Administration is concerned. The US has already spent billions, and has disrupted tens of thousands of lifes within the active duty military and the Reservists, while positioning logistics, the machines of war and troops. Now Britain is sending part of its fleet and troops. The war machine is in motion and will not be stopped at this point. War is inevitable.

[Gutterboy]

Originally posted by theking
The invasion is going to happen. The Administration stated prior to going to the UN that the USA does not need UN approval, and will act with or without UN approval. The Administration is just going through the motions, as we needed time to build up our forces in the area, anyhow.

You're probably right. I'm not so concerned with stopping the invasion as I am with making sure that when it does happen, it works against Bush politically. The UN stuff and anti-war movement, and now this new tide of international opposition, will help that.

No one can really predict whats going to happen, too many variables, but it'll be interesting to see how it plays out. Last weekends crowds showed that the anti-war movement has alot more momentum than I thought it did.

[Mutt]

this comes as a shock to people? that the fucking French are weak terrorist loving Yankee hating cowards?

Hitler loved the French, once they rolled over for him in record time, they became very industrious.

Nobody hates America as much as the French. Drop a bomb on them after Iraq is liberated. There is more hatred in France than any other democracy. Look at their last election, forget the name of the party but they got a big % of the popular vote, a hate party like that in any other Western democracy would be lucky to get 3% of the vote.

[Gutterboy]

Originally posted by Mutt
a hate party like that in any other Western democracy would be lucky to get 3% of the vote.

lol. I guess you aren't aware that the religious right - a hate party if there ever was one - has controlled the Republican social agenda for the last decade.

If you ran a candidate right now on a straight anti-gay, anti-porn, anti-reproductive freedom, anti-church/state seperation, anti-everything not fundamentalist christian platform, he might not win, but he'd get a significant minority of the votes.. especially in mid-western and southern states.

How long ago was it that David Duke nearly won the Governorship of Louisiana?

[clickpimp]

Originally posted by Gutterboy


lol. I guess you aren't aware that the religious right - a hate party if there ever was one - has controlled the Republican social agenda for the last decade.

If you ran a candidate right now on a straight anti-gay, anti-porn, anti-reproductive freedom, anti-church/state seperation, anti-everything not fundamentalist christian platform, he might not win, but he'd get a significant minority of the votes.. especially in mid-western and southern states.

the Savage nation is 5 Mil and growing ... duck

[Pornwolf]

The French hates everyone it seems... especially any English speaking nations.

[DarkJedi]

If US starts the war, US Dollar will drop significantly

Time to buy Euros !!

[Mark]

Well bugger me what is the world to do now that France is putting its foot down?!

I think french interests in the middle east and north africa combined with the 6 million or more arabs living in france have a certain influence on french policy..

Anyway.. the war will happen no doubt.. with or without international support..

Check here for the latest hot news.. ;)

debka.com

[scooby doo as scooby does]

I'm not so sure it will happen now. Russia is still signing contracts with Iraq, do they know something we don't ? Russia, China and France is a pretty powerful block, not to mention over the last 2/3 months the surrounding muslim countries seem to have woken up to the fact that it's not in their best interests to have the US colonise Iraq, hence the 'exile ' talk. It only has to get one of two degrees hotter for Bush and they'll be no Saudi Arabia bases and no Turkey bases. That means a South attack only, with much larger loss of US life. Yup, I think the tide is turning, it's not out yet, and could still wash up loadsa dead bodies, but things are definitely changing.

[seven]

Originally posted by Driven
Ummm who the hell cares what the French Govt say, the Bush Administration has already said they'll take out IRAQ with or without the pussy UN's help.

Think we are underestimating the powers of France or any country other than the U.S. .. but that's typical American vini vidi vici

[baddog]

Originally posted by p00p


sorry to say, nothing good has come outta France.

I have to disagree, the original sex kitten, Bridget Bardot is French.

[ADL Colin]

Originally posted by MrPopup


The vary notions of freedom and personal liberty that you enjoy in AMERICA - were born in France - along with the inspiration for America's own birth - the French Revolution.

Stick to javascript and popsicles - this conversation has grown too complex for you.

Some of what you said was correct. French philosophers and thought did influence American concepts of liberty however it was the American revolution that served as inspiration for the French revolution.

America. 1776. Revolutionary War ended in 1784.

French Revolution. 1789 -

There are countless historical references and commentary that show the French were inspired by the American success at revolution.

The writing of Thomas Paine in particular but there are many others.

[GTS Mark]

We should include France into the axis of evil.

French fuckers!

DH

[roly]

they are all opposing it now, but when it gets nearer the start of the war and they know the us and uk are gonna go ahead anyway. they'll all go along with it so they can get hold of some of the spoils of war (oil), sorry i mean "help rebuild iraq"

[Gutterboy]

Originally posted by Colin

The writing of Thomas Paine in particular but there are many others.

I'm a big fan of Thomas Paine. Funny how he is the only founding father without a very visible public memorial. It doesn't seem to be popular for politicians to talk about him either, but maybe that's a sign of true greatness.

[stocktrader23]

Originally posted by Driven
Ummm who the hell cares what the French Govt say, the Bush Administration has already said they'll take out IRAQ with or without the pussy UN's help.

The UN couldn't wipe its own ass if it tried, they can't agree on anything. Its only there so some of the lessor countries feel like there having there say, when in the end the USA will do whatever it wants too and fair enough they are the reason we have peace around the western world today.
The middle east hates the USA not Europe so Europe is keeping itself out of the conflict. Thats there choice.

I say bring on the war, lets get some good CNN coverage this time.

More people care what the French have to say overall than what Bush wants to do to make sure he is re-elected. By the way

Nearly every country hates the USA with many good reasons. This entire war on on terrorism is a ploy. It's to keep Republicans in office long enough to comepletely fuck our freedoms and privacy while at the same time making Bush and his buddies all the richer.

[scooby doo as scooby does]

----------
Some of what you said was correct. French philosophers and thought did influence American concepts of liberty however it was the American revolution that served as inspiration for the French revolution.

America. 1776. Revolutionary War ended in 1784.

French Revolution. 1789 -

There are countless historical references and commentary that show the French were inspired by the American success at revolution.
---------

And of course, both those drew heavily (in human rights and humanitarian law, but not natural law) from the signing of the Magna Carta in 1215.

Whose yer daddy ?

[Pleasurepays]

its really funny how people want to say the US wants oil and therefore wants war... and they dont seem eager to talk about Frances almost 2 Billion Dollar a year trade relationship with Iraq as well as pending oil development contracts.

people quickly forget that all nations act in accordance to their best interest. that is the first responsibility of a government to its people.

I watched the French Foreign Minister give an interview and he was beyond ambiguous. He began by forcefully saying "we will oppose ANY military action..." continued by preaching about law, order, peace and democracy and the need for unity on the issue... and then once he had painted himself into a corner, he finished by saying "er... well... yeah... uh.... i mean if Iraq refuses to cooperate and there is a Security Council Resolution to use force, then of course we will support that decision"

[Pleasurepays]

Originally posted by Pleasurepays
its really funny how people want to say the US wants oil and therefore wants war... and they dont seem eager to talk about Frances almost 2 Billion Dollar a year trade relationship with Iraq as well as pending oil development contracts which is a considerable motivation to keep the status quo.

people quickly forget that all nations act in accordance to their best interest. that is the first responsibility of a government to its people.

I watched the French Foreign Minister give an interview and he was beyond ambiguous. He began by forcefully saying "we will oppose ANY military action..." continued by preaching about law, order, peace and democracy and the need for unity on the issue... and then once he had painted himself into a corner, he finished by saying "er... well... yeah... uh.... i mean if Iraq refuses to cooperate and there is a Security Council Resolution to use force, then of course we will support that decision"

[Pornwolf]

I know this may sound like typical American bravado but what I am about to say is true... we can do whatever the heck we want and all Anglo countries will do nothing but grin and bear it while they support our decision. The only countries we have to worry about are Russia and China. Both of them are so economically weak that they really won't and can't do anything unless it's absolutely necassary. We could blow Korea to fuck right now and get away with it if we really wanted to.

I'm not for the war mind you but let's keep this thing in perspective.

[ADL Colin]

Originally posted by Pleasurepays
dont seem eager to talk about Frances almost 2 Billion Dollar a year trade relationship with Iraq as well as pending oil development contracts.

No, but France doesnt care about the owed it from Iraq! Riiight.

Stocktrader,

Louisiana? Funny. XIV.

[Pleasurepays]

Originally posted by DarkJedi
If US starts the war, US Dollar will drop significantly

Time to buy Euros !!

considering that Germany is really fucking it with their budget deficits and the EU just invited 12 new East European basket cases to join, i think its premature to start trading your kidneys for Euros.

[Pleasurepays]

Originally posted by Colin


No, but France doesnt care about the owed it from Iraq! Riiight.

Stocktrader,

Louisiana? Funny. XIV.

Russia also has 8 or more BILLION dollars in debt owed to it by Iraq. they just signed a new oil development deal worth another 20 Billion.

funny how no one feels thats not a motivation for them to be opposed to NOT overthrowing Saddam Hussein.

[Pleasurepays]

Originally posted by Pornwolf
I know this may sound like typical American bravado but what I am about to say is true... we can do whatever the heck we want and all Anglo countries will do nothing but grin and bear it while they support our decision. The only countries we have to worry about are Russia and China. Both of them are so economically weak that they really won't and can't do anything unless it's absolutely necassary. We could blow Korea to fuck right now and get away with it if we really wanted to.

I'm not for the war mind you but let's keep this thing in perspective.

lets invade France.

then we can watch people protest and scream "its all about the cheese!"

[Paul Markham]

Originally posted by DarkJedi
If US starts the war, US Dollar will drop significantly

Time to buy Euros !!

"Will drop" I think you mean will continue it's free fall. Buy the Czech Crown thats strong.

What I cannot work out is when Bush will send in the troops.

If he sends them too soon he wil lose the impact for the next election. He will have control of the oilfields, but who will he give them to? Plus terrorist will be coming out of the woodwork and he wil be shown as a long term loser.

If he keeps them waiting so he can get re-elected on the surge of a military win we will know his real aims.

[scooby doo as scooby does]

--------
I know this may sound like typical American bravado but what I am about to say is true... we can do whatever the heck we want and all Anglo countries will do nothing but grin and bear it while they support our decision. The only countries we have to worry about are Russia and China. Both of them are so economically weak that they really won't and can't do anything unless it's absolutely necassary. We could blow Korea to fuck right now and get away with it if we really wanted to.

I'm not for the war mind you but let's keep this thing in perspective.
--------

Aye, brings back memories of the British Empire, happy days.

Notwithstanding what you say is a complete pile of doggy poo poo. The US (as does all countries) has some notable losses as well as glorious victories.

[VIP]

America will always find an enemy to fight against...
Why not try China? At least we know for sure they have the weapons and they have violated the UN resolutions even more than Israel, (the other country that is not listning...) But they probably do not have any oil...
Did they catch Bin Laden already or is this just the way to say to the American people that Sadam did it?
I know Sadam is a sick MF, but just wondering why to spend so much taxpayers money if it wont change a thing for those taxpayers. Also wonder who has the stocks in the bombbuilding factories and oil industry... Probably on the list of "close friends" of the Bush family.
Who is next? France?

[VIP]

Does anybody know why the US has the biggest debt by far of all the nations in the world?

[ADL Colin]

Originally posted by VIP
Does anybody know why the US has the biggest debt by far of all the nations in the world?

Are you saying you can't figure that out?

[ADL Colin]

Let's stay on subject. Let's discuss Iraqi debt to France.

[Rochard]

The UN is irrelevant. A state of war has existed between Iraq and the US since the end of the Gulf War. It's simple - We enforce the UN no fly zone, Iraq shoots at us, and in return we drop bombs on Iraq. This is a war, plain and simple.

The US is enforcing the UN led no fly zone. The UN set this up, but has no balls to enforce it. The UN is irrelevant.

Does anyone rememer the Gulf War? They surrendered to CNN news crews because they were fucking hungry? Has their army gotten any better after ten years of sanctions? I would think not.

This is gonna be a cake walk.

[scooby doo as scooby does]

There is no UN no-fly zone. Where did you get that ? No UN resolution mentions no-fly-zones. Resolution 688 calls upon Iraq to cease civilian repression, nothing more.

Most UN countries are against it, that's why the UN doesn't support it. It's nothing to do with the UN being weak or useless.

Is it effective......

http://www.globalpolicy.org/security...q/flyindex.htm

[FreeXXX]

Scooby Doo:

Do you still live in that old beat up van? and are you still hanging out with your gay butt buddy Shaggy? ))

[scooby doo as scooby does]

Mr. Doo to you @