Cyberpunk's idea of a settlement is to say that the employment never started. He doesn't seem to dispute that other parts of the contract were completed. By his logic, therefore, the termination clause of the contract is not in effect, so he can offer me whatever compensation he feels is fair.

Does this sound right to anyone? I am having no luck explaining it to him, or him to me.

You said it. ;)


This next comment is NOT in any way directed to either or any of the parties in this dispute, let me make that clear.. I don't know all the facts nor the individuals.

I am surprized how some larger, more successful companies will go to great lengths and trouble, making threats (both physical and legal), posting on boards and so forth, over what to them is relatively small change.

I understand that large companies have to deal with many cheating webmasters who undermine the legitimacy of an industry that is so hard to protect.. and in the long and short run, each one can't be dealt with individually.

However.. my personal problem and the reason I write this was with Platinum Bucks when the rules for a contest were changed during and after the contest's duration, affecting the outcome and the eventual winners. PB is a very successful program that made a mistake by wording their contest rules in overly-simplified terms. It was over a sum less than $1000, and I was getting threats for a defamation suit from the president of PB!

If the roles were reversed, I would have gladly said, "Hey, there's a problem here. I have my position, you have your's, we disagree. How about I send you a check for $500 and a tshirt and we forget it ever happened, go on with our business." How difficult is that??

The price of an easy settlement is far exceeded by the losses from 1) posting on GFY for an hour (or two, or five) when you could be doing something else and 2) the possible black-eye you'd get from the thread.. even if you were in the right!

:2 cents:

I am sad to say I agree.

No, since you had a "pre-employment" clause that covered this. Trying to back out of the contract in that manner is weasely. Contract is pretty clear cut really.

And yes, they can say "but it won't hold up in court" - but the problem is it won't ever get there, and they know it. If this is how it turns out, I'm pretty dissapointed in the biz ethics of DarkDollars.

Well, it sounds like his offer comes out to about a third to half of what I am owed. It also so happens that I could live for maybe a month off of what I am owed, after I fill in my bank overdraft. So for three months of work, I can survive a month, but not pay off any of the debt that came out of this.

No, I am not suggesting that my need for the money determines his obligation to pay. His obligation to pay is already clear. I actually have a much simpler thing to say...

Um, anyone need any photos? Might be a good time to get a good deal out of me, since I am so poor.

Ah well there are always three sides to every story and at most we'll here two.

That didn't look like 7 pages of contract posted to me, but maybe they used 18pt arial to type it out...

Many disputes in life boil down to what the perception of them is by the party that gets to decide who does what if there is no settlement.

This is the relevant passage, (bold by me)

PRE-EMPLOYMENT

Until such a time as employment is fully implemented, after the beginning of this Agreement, DarkDollars will pay the agreed salary (base plus commission) to Ian as a contractor and report these earnings on a 1099 form. Transfer of ownership, hosting, promotion, and all other parts of this agreement (save employment) will be in effect from the date of this Agreement.

Seems pretty clear cut to me.

Pay him you broke asses.

ok, I dont care either way, but wtf?

didnt you say like 10 times you didnt want this to be public?

In other words, might makes right and posession is 9/10 of the law. A pretty sad state of affairs, especially considering these people were talking about partnership, mutuality, trust, etc.

My mistake was that I trusted when I shouldn't, because I was tempted by an opportunity that was too good to be true.

Sad or not Ian, that is often times the way it goes.

Personally I'd hope you guys can work this out amongst yourselves without any more ado, but you should both realize that when you do a contract, even what you may consider to be an informal one -- ie done without a lawyer -- part or all of it can be deemed very much enforceable, not always the parts one or both parties likes when you get to that point either.

I have NO opinion as to who is right or wrong here at all. As I said there are three sides to every story and I'll lay wagers there is a lot of all three sides that haven't been put out here. And probably shouldnt be.

I think you are right about the three sides thing. The best interpretation is probably somewhere in the middle-- and that is why I am not pushing for everything *I* think the contract entitles me to. I don't think Cyberpunk is totally fabricating his interpretation. However, I do think he had to go a long way to find an interpretation that made him totally free of any responsibility to live up to his end of the contract.

At the end of the day, I trusted someone with my livelihood, and was given all sorts of assurances that it couldn't go wrong. All the goodwill was then abandoned once my signature was on the line. Because of this, I am heavily screwed, and Cyberpunk seems to think he is doing be a favor offering me less than $1500 for three months work.

I got the same thing.

I thought the lesson was, "Always get money upfront."

Jason, give me a fucking break here....say you hire someone to do a job and they don't do that job...what would YOU do?

Let's say that person also pissed off some of your biggest traffic senders and cost you a loss of income. What would YOU do?

Should I sue for that? I won't because I truly don't give a fuck. The only reason I have a lawyer is to defend myself and keep me from saying (even more) stupid shit. I've written it off as a lesson learned.

I've been the one trying to play peacemaker and go between here and all I get is bullshit for it? Fuck this.

I have this albatross of being the "nice guy" well fuck being nice. Nice = dick in hand and/or massive dick in ass.

As for large companies, we are a small company ourselves. We probably make in a year what some programs make in a month. So, this is hardly a case of the large company chewing up and spitting out the small company. It's a contract dispute that shoudl NEVER have been taken public.

The problem I see is that Jim is allowed to make his own absolute judgement on whether I did the work I was contracted for. I absolutely feel that I was doing what the contract called for. Jim and I negotiated the contract, and both knew what was to be expected of me. Somehow, what we talked about, and even what was in the contract, has been ignored for his own interpretation of what I was supposed to do.

The reason for a termination clause is, at least in part, so one person can't decide for themself that the contract was breached, and arbitrarily screw the other party.

I know I pissed off some people who you work closely with. Alas, at the time, I had little knowledge of who you work with. Further, you had each told me (both before and after the fact) that I should say whatever I want, and you weren't going to tell me who not to piss off. So, as far as I concerned, its just sour grapes to complain now, or intimate at suing me.

However, as much as I feel the need to fight for my livelihood and good name, and as much as I have a hard time communicating with either of you at all unless I do so on here, I too am sick of the public fight.

You've fucked up my life, by twisting a contract (as well as posession) in your favour. I trusted you, and put my livelihood in my hands. I guess it is time for me to get back what I can from you, and move on, with lessons learned about trust in general, and your character in specific. While making this public has evoked a settlement offer that wouldn't have been made otherwise, it has done little other good. I guess I am done here. I can try to get what I am owed in private.

Never, NEVER, put your life in someone else's hands, no matter the circumstances.

I made that mistake once... "mistake" is an understatement.

I know, I know. I got optimistic, it was stupid.

popcorn? :(

I think the show is over.

Ian,

Its really too bad you feel this way, I do find it intresting that much like my converstatoins with you, you jsut repeat the same thing over and over and over, like in time you start to believe it. For fucksakes get a grip. You still haven;t told me where you want the ccbill acct tranferferd to, yet you find time to bump this threard over and over saying u don't want it public, I jsut hope your gettig yourself as many WMs to your program as you've gotten me over all this, and to thick I was gonna up pay out to a min 60% this week, now I guess I can wait a few more dayz to generate some spin! Tnks mate!

Check your email. Let me know if any info you need for transfer is missing. Or, (gasp) you could answer one of my emails and do this in private.

Ian if you're still looking for hosting take a look at Rackshack.net. $99/mo with 400GB included on a dedicated server.
If you don't know how to run a server I'm sure there's plenty of people who'd be willing to help (myself included). The Rackshack support forums also have a number of people who can quickly help you get things straight and working properly.

Best of luck.

too bad, so sad

Thanks. I appreciate the offer, but I have found what seems like a very good host, based on reviews I have seen. The service has been good so far, and the price is right.

(Once I have had a chance to test it, I can be more loose with my praise.)

Yo, cyberpunk! Are you getting my email? I only seem to hear back from you when I post on the boards.

:-)

heya gang, sorryy

Not as sorry as I am. Guess how much I have heard about Cyberpunk's settlement offer in the last month?