questions and answers about non payments - Page 2 - GoFuckYourself.com

Backov · 01-19-2003, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gothweb
This has been floating in my head for a while now. I wonder if I can make sense of it...

Why does a contract have a termination clause, with what happens when the contract ends spelled out, if one party can simply decide it is over and do whatever he wants? I do not see why you feel you are not bound by the termination clause, even if you were right in saying I didn't fulfill my end.

Ian, I feel that you should post the contract. Us armchair lawyers can review it and weigh in our 2c.

It sounds like he thinks he's got the upper hand, but you're right - termination clauses are there for a reason, and from what you've said there was very little reason for a "Breach" as he seems to think.

Cheers,
Backov

cyberpunk · 01-19-2003, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gothweb
Fair enough. It is getting pretty late here. I would prefer to talk things out, since I think you totally misunderstand what we signed, but getting an offer is better than nothing.

For the record, some numbers to consider...

1.) If you paid me what the termination clause says, it would come to about $5000, since if you terminate I am paid for a 6-month term.

2.) I am asking for only $3000, what the contract says I should have been paid up until this point. (Remember, you agreed to the base pay to account for sales I generate, and that you and Sykkboy wrote the termination clause which says I am owed more.)

3.) You know how much you have taken in via CCBill, since you got control of my account and nearly all of my income.

does teh fuckin term quit while your ahead mean anyting to you!

-=HUNGRYMAN=- · 01-19-2003, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Backov

weigh in our 2c.

ALT + 155 d00d !!

weigh in our 2¢

gothweb · 01-19-2003, 08:16 PM

Normally, I wouldn't post an entire contract. However, Jim did say he would be happy to were it not so long, so what the hell...

Website Ownership and Employment Agreement

PARTIES

The Parties to this Agreement are Ian C. [Last name removed] (hereafter, ?Ian?), [LLC name removed]dba DarkDollars (hereafter, ?DarkDollars. This agreement binds the Parties as outlined below.

ALTERATIONS AND AMMENDMENTS

The Parties may agree to alter or amend this agreement. Any changes that are mutually agreed can be enacted by Ian and DarkDollars signing an amendment agreement. (See later section for termination, including mutually agreed termination.)

SITES COVERED BY THE AGREEMENT

This Agreement covers a series of gothic adult paysites, and related sites. The sites transferred at the time of this Agreement are covered, as well as any sites created by Ian for DarkDollars in the course of this agreement. (Should Ian create any sites other than for DarkDollars, they will not be covered.)

Initial sites are GothicAmateur.com, Blood Dolls (blood-dolls.com), and Gothic Undine (gothicundine.com). (See also Additional Sites, below.)

SITE OWNERSHIP

As part of this Agreement, ownership of the Sites will be transferred from Ian to DarkDollars. Ian will continue as manager of the sites. Should the agreement be terminated, ownership reverts to Ian or a party designated by him.

DOMAINS

Domains associated with the Sites (and related sites) will remain the property of Ian. They will be registered with DarkDollars? contact information, but will revert to Ian at the end of this agreement.

COPYRIGHT AND CONTENT

The sites contain a variety of images and other content created by Ian. Copyright to all such pre-existing content will remain with Ian. Copyright to the sites themselves will be held by DarkDollars for the duration of this agreement, and revert to Ian on termination.

All content created by Ian for the sites (and otherwise)will remain his property, and license will be granted to DarkDollars as part of the Agreement for use on the Sites for the duration of the agreement. This Agreement constitutes a license to publish photographic content on the web, as outlined in further details of the agreement.

All images created by Ian for the Sites during the course of the Agreement will be coved by the same terms. Should this agreement be terminated, license will be revoked. This agreement does not grant license for DarkDollars to use content produced and/or owned by Ian, except for the members ares of the Sites, tours of the sites, and promotion of the sites, all as bound by this agreement.

EMPLOYMENT

DarkDollars will employ Ian as a payrolled employee. He will be paid a base salary, plus commission on sales made at his sites. (These are explained in further detail elsewhere.) DarkDollars will attempt to obtain Ian a ?sole representative? work Visa to enable him to stay more flexibly in the UK. If such a Visa cannot be obtained, Ian will be employed part-time at his home address (currently in the UK.)

DarkDollars will employ Ian by the beginning of 2003, and if possible obtain a work Visa for him by the same deadline. If they are not able to do so, they will continue to try past the deadline until all options are exhausted.

PRE-EMPLOYMENT

Until such a time as employment is fully implemented, after the beginning of this Agreement, DarkDollars will pay the agreed salary (base plus commission) to Ian as a contractor and report these earnings on a 1099 form. Transfer of ownership, hosting, promotion, and all other parts of this agreement (save employment) will be in effect from the date of this Agreement.

SALARY AND COMMISSION

As part of this Agreement, Ian will be paid a salary by DarkDollars. Salary will be determined by base pay plus commissions for sales to the Sites, as well as for revenue from links from the Sites. The base pay will be $150 per week.

Commission will be determined as follows: For each sale made to one of the Sites, the revenue will be split evenly between DarkDollars and Ian. In some cases, a percentage commission will be paid to a referring affiliate (from 50-66.7%). A further percentage (at the time of the agreement, 12.5%) is taken by the third party billing company.

The remainder of each sale will be split evenly between DarkDollars and Ian. (Extrapolating from this formula, Ian will be paid between 10.5% and 19% for each sale referred by an affiliate, and 43.75% of each non-affiliate sale.) This includes all sales made to the site, including sales generated due to promotion by either party.

Payment will be made by DarkDollars payroll per standard policies. Payment of commissions will be delayed by biller turnover, each period?s salary being paid based on a previous period?s sales. Commissions will be paid in the first pay period after they are received from the biller. Salary will be paid no less than once a month.

OUTGOING LINK INCOME

All income generated by outgoing links from the Sites (such as affiliate program links) will be split evenly between DarkDollars and Ian. Such revenue will be paid to DarkDollars, and Ian?s portion will be paid as an additional component of his commission.

Sales generated from traffic sent to other DarkDollars sites will not generate a commission for Ian.

(See also, ?Outgoing Links?, below.)

MAINTENANCE

Ian will be responsible for the maintenance of the Sites. This will include updating their member areas and providing primary content. As part of the agreement, DarkDollars may be responsible for creating new preview areas to increase sales. Ian will maintain those areas, or existing preview areas, as well.

CREATIVE CONTROL

In order to maintain the good name and reputation of the sites, and himself, Ian will have complete creative control over the websites. All creative decisions will be his final call. However, DarkDollars will have authority over promotion and productivity issues, especially concerning preview areas and additional (non-primary) content for member areas.

In the case of a dispute, the parties will attempt to come to an agreement. Final authority over the free areas of the Sites falls with DarkDollars, while final authority over the member areas of the Sites, and all parts of related sites, lies with Ian.

Both parties agree to an ?if it isn? broke, don?t fix it? philosophy, allowing the sites to be improved but not drastically changed in direction and strategy. Pricing will be decided between the parties in order to maximize productivity. The sites may be used to direct traffic towards other DarkDollars sites, but it will be done in a way that is not overly obtrusive, avoiding excessive pop-ups and so-forth.

Both parties agree to work to ensure the optimal reputation and productivity of the sites. As such, both Parties will have right of review of basic policies, in order to ensure the site?s reputation and productivity are not harmed. No party will take any action that directly contradicts this goal. The free preview areas of the sites will honestly reflect the content of the member areas, and emphasis will be placed on the primary content.

OUTGOING LINKS

As part of control of productivity, DarkDollars will regulate links from the Sites. Final decision of outgoing links will be theirs, except as governed by this agreement.

As part of maintenance/control of the member area, Ian will have the choice to feature guest galleries, and otherwise link to other sites. Links from within the member area will be at his discretion, within reason.

Ian will be allowed to ensure that links to all members of the ?QE: Quality Erotica? and ?Gothic Sex Network? coalitions, as well as the coalition sites themselves, can be given prominent placement on all Sites. DarkDollars may, however, regulate the exact location and details of such links.

(See also, ?Outgoing Link Income?, above.)

ADDITIONAL CONTENT

DarkDollars will provide additional content for the Sites. This content will include a very large collection of mainstream adult images (possibly from a third party), as well as a considerable collection of dark or gothic niche adult images from other DarkDollars sites and related ventures.

Emphasis will be on the primary content. Promotion of secondary content will be auxiliary, as will its placement in the member area.

gothweb · 01-19-2003, 08:16 PM

HOSTING

DarkDollars will host the Sites, starting at the beginning of this Agreement. Hosting will be provided on DarkDollars? choice of host/server. Ian will have unlimited hosting available for the Sites and certain related sites.

Some related sites will be hosted by Dark Dollars, in some cases still owned by Ian. Only sites that promote the Sites will be covered, unless otherwise agreed by Dark Dollars. Related sites include but are not limited to Quality Erotica (quality-erotica.com), The Gothic Sex Network (gothicsex.net), Vail the Blood Doll (blood-doll.com) and Blood Dolls content, forum, etc. (blood-dolls.net).

PROMOTION

DarkDollars will promote the Sites to the best of their ability. The sites will be added to the DarkDollars program, and promoted on the program website. DarkDollars will also promote the sites in other ways, both to viewers and webmasters. Ian will continue to promote the sites and work to maximize their productivity and traffic.

At least one of the Sites will be treated as a flagship site in the DarkDollars program, similar to the position of GothicSex.com. Specific details are left open, and the parties agree to the intention.

SPECIAL CONDITIONS FOR PHOTOS OF ?BIANCA? (AND OTHERS)

As per previous agreements with the model known as ?Bianca?, there are special conditions for use of any photos including her. All photos of ?Bianca? remain property and copyright of Ian, and he will ensure that they are used as she wishes as per agreements (written or verbal) between Ian and ?Bianca?.

No photos of Bianca will be used on any site other than Blood Dolls or GothicAmateur.com without her permission. They may not be sold, licensed, or otherwise transferred unless she gives her consent.

Use of photos of Bianca in the tour for GothicAmateur.com are allowed. She has the right to ask any photo of her in the tour to be removed or changed. (This is not likely.)

A limited number of photos of Bianca may (or may not) be made available for promotion of GothicAmateur.com and/or Blood Dolls. She will have final approval of such images.

Photos of Bianca may not be used on other sites, in print, or in any other way without her express permission. General permission is only given for the member areas of GothicAmateur.com and Blood Dolls.

Bianca may choose to have the Parties remove her photos from the Sites. This will mean all members area images and tour images, and ceasing to make promotional materials available that include her likeness. In cases where promotional material can be withdrawn from other sites, it should be. The standard condition for removal of Bianca?s photos will allow one year for all images to be removed. By this time, all of the above conditions must be met.

In cases of emergency, Bianca may ask to have her photos removed as quickly as possible. This includes all of the above conditions being met within two weeks, without exception. Emergencies include, but are not limited to, threat of loss of employment, legal action, and threat to personal safety.

In the future, models may also have similar agreements with Ian regarding their photos. In all cases, agreements with Ian and his ownership of the content will determine use of any images, likeness, and name of models and other related parties.

TERMINATION

This section contains the procedures for termination of the Agreement. It is designed to protect the financial and personal interests of both parties.

It is intended that our business relationship will be a profitable, long term commitment, however, if either party decides to terminate the agreement, it shall be in writing and CC?d via email to [email removed], [email removed] and [email removed] within 30 days of intended termination. This is void if it is impossible to give 30 days notice (extreme illness, death or anything else beyond the control of either party).

The minimum length of this relationship is 6 months and is to be renewed within 30 days of the end of the agreement. Should the partnership be terminated within that 6-month period, the terminating party retains the option of being compensated until the 6-month period.

If Ian wishes to terminate the agreement prematurely (before the 6-month period ends), DarkDollars retains the option of receiving compensation until the end of the 6-month period is reached. Compensation is to include any recurring commissions, traffic trade relationships established during the tenure of this agreement, commissions on upsell programs added during the course of this agreement and any additional income and/or traffic established upon commencement of this agreement.

In the event Ian decides to terminate this agreement, he may, at the discretion of both parties, offer a lump sum buyout based upon a percentage of the projected income figures during the 6-month agreement period.

If DarkDollars decides to terminate the agreement within the 6-month period, Ian is entitled to any compensation otherwise allotted during that time, including commissions on membership sales to any of the DarkDollars sites, traffic acquired as a direct result of a working relationship with Ian, commissions on upsell products implemented as a direct result of working with Ian and any other traffic or financial gains made as a direct result of working with Ian.

In the event DarkDollars decides to terminate this agreement, they may, at the discretion of both parties, offer a lump sum buyout based upon a percentage of the projected income figures during the 6-month agreement period.

Should both parties agree to amicably terminate this relationship, within the context of this agreement (written notification within 30 days of the 6-month period), then no additional compensation will be required by either party.

Should both parties agree to terminate this agreement, Ian reserves the right to continue hosting with DarkDollars at a reasonable standard retail hosting price. If Ian decides to move his hosting to another hosting company, DarkDollars agrees to not impede the transfer of any domains affected.

Should the agreement be terminated, whether by breach by one party or mutual assent by Ian and DarkDollars, all sites and copyright will revert to Ian. Existing rebilling memberships will continue to be split as per this agreement. All services offered by DarkDollars in enhancing and promoting the sites will be ceased unless other arrangements are made.

Various details of termination are given throughout this agreement. In general, except where exceptions are noted, all details will return to their state before this agreement.

( Note: I think anything personal has been removed.)

Sly_RJ · 01-19-2003, 08:18 PM

Ian, a little advice for the time being...

Stop posting.

gothweb · 01-19-2003, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sly_RJ
Ian, a little advice for the time being...

Stop posting.

After fulfilling the request, which cyberpunk said was okay with him, I am done for tonight. Wicked late here, and even I can tell when I have said too much. (Although belatedly.)

Backov · 01-19-2003, 08:21 PM

Cyber,

If this is the contract you signed, you owe him wages and the ccbill account reverts to him. There are no special gotchas for "breaches" - you signed this, you better hold it up or your word is shit.

Next time you want to screw someone, have the lawyer write in the screwing clauses - this is a fair contract and you owe him.

Cheers,
Backov

FATPad · 01-19-2003, 08:21 PM

Great. Another thread I won't read again. Thanks for the sound file.

cyberpunk · 01-19-2003, 08:21 PM

ok let the armchair lawyers begin

cyberpunk · 01-19-2003, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Backov
Cyber,

If this is the contract you signed, you owe him wages and the ccbill account reverts to him. There are no special gotchas for "breaches" - you signed this, you better hold it up or your word is shit.

Next time you want to screw someone, have the lawyer write in the screwing clauses - this is a fair contract and you owe him.

Cheers,
Backov

Backov,

I agress this is a fair contract, we try to be and are fair with everyone. There are a few things still missing thoguh, which my non arm chair lawyer has advised me against posting, jsut in case ian doesn;t decide to except my fair offer tommorw

Backov · 01-19-2003, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cyberpunk
ok let the armchair lawyers begin

Contract law is very simple. If you signed this, you owe him. There's no legalese in here that says you can screw him when you want to.

Edit: I don't see what extenuating circumstances there could be. If it's not specifically in the contract, it doesn't exist.

cyberpunk · 01-19-2003, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Backov

Contract law is very simple. If you signed this, you owe him. There's no legalese in here that says you can screw him when you want to.

Backov,

There was never an intent to have such written into this contract.

Brujah · 01-19-2003, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gothweb
This has been floating in my head for a while now. I wonder if I can make sense of it...

Thats why people let lawyers handle things like this, instead of GFY armchair lawyers.

cyberpunk · 01-19-2003, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Brujah

Thats why people let lawyers handle things like this, instead of GFY armchair lawyers.

But Ian seems to have wanted the armchair lawyers. And he obvioulsy wanted to keep thread
going

Backov · 01-19-2003, 08:29 PM

That's the point of this thread..

If you screw him as you seem to be planning, we'll know you did.

Remember that thing called reputation? It's what this board is all about.

cyberpunk · 01-19-2003, 08:32 PM

What part gives you the idea I was planning on screwing him?

Fuck I even turned the poor bastards hosting back on

However if u all think my plan was/is to screw him I'm willing to play it out that way in the courts too

gothweb · 01-19-2003, 08:37 PM

For the record, I don't think you were planning on screwing me all along. I don't think this has worked out at all well, but I also don't think you are that bad by a long shot.

Backov · 01-19-2003, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cyberpunk
What part gives you the idea I was planning on screwing him?

Fuck I even turned the poor bastards hosting back on

However if u all think my plan was/is to screw him I'm willing to play it out that way in the courts too

Note to self: Never, ever do business with DarkDollars, Sykkboy or Cyberpunk.

That's what I got from this thread. So did others. Happy yet?

cyberpunk · 01-19-2003, 08:44 PM

BAckov your call mate

gothweb · 01-19-2003, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Backov

Note to self: Never, ever do business with DarkDollars, Sykkboy or Cyberpunk.

That's what I got from this thread. So did others. Happy yet?

I don't think the lesson needs to be taken that far. Also, note that we haven't heard from Sykkboy in this thread. I wouldn't judge him based on it.

Zoe_Zoebaboe · 01-19-2003, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by [Labret]
At least you dont have to worry about him kicking your ass. Goth guys cant fight.

Diamond Jim · 01-19-2003, 08:58 PM

Whoever posted the sound file...

Backov, contracts like this are easily contestable and can be considered in breach by either party. If Dark Dollars contests that Ian performed his "employment" in bad faith (ie, work not done), he may be in breach himself...I have serious doubt this agreement was even READ by an attorney, much less written by one...holes all over the place...

Ridiculous that this is brought to a public place over pocket change...come to a fair agreement and move on...

cyberpunk · 01-19-2003, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Diamond Jim
Whoever posted the sound file...

Backov, contracts like this are easily contestable and can be considered in breach by either party. If Dark Dollars contests that Ian performed his "employment" in bad faith (ie, work not done), he may be in breach himself...I have serious doubt this agreement was even READ by an attorney, much less written by one...holes all over the place...

Ridiculous that this is brought to a public place over pocket change...come to a fair agreement and move on...

And from out of no where a voice of reason! With that I'm off to bed, Ian we'll close this out (hopefully) in email tommrow, Backov, all my love, everyone else g'nite and thanks for playin arm chair lawyer

quiet · 01-19-2003, 09:06 PM

(1) people who post sound files in threads should be shot, point blank range.

(2) how much does your hosting cost a month gw (if you were paying for it)?

gothweb · 01-20-2003, 04:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Diamond Jim
Whoever posted the sound file...

Backov, contracts like this are easily contestable and can be considered in breach by either party. If Dark Dollars contests that Ian performed his "employment" in bad faith (ie, work not done), he may be in breach himself...I have serious doubt this agreement was even READ by an attorney, much less written by one...holes all over the place...

Ridiculous that this is brought to a public place over pocket change...come to a fair agreement and move on...

Regardless of whether the agreement is-- or you think it is-- legally enforcible, he read it, and h signed it. Whether or not he should be legally bound by it, certainly he should be honor bound by it.

Oh, and this "pocket change" is serious money to me. I'm no blingbling player with gld chains and a caddy. Plus, a man's word is his word, whether its over $30, $3000, or $3 million.

nuclei · 01-20-2003, 08:57 AM

Hmmm this is becoming a pattern

gothweb · 01-20-2003, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by nuclei
Hmmm this is becoming a pattern

What is?

SykkBoy · 01-20-2003, 01:52 PM

I've remained silent on these threads due to being offline for a few days and on advice of my attorney.

I'll only say that I've been discussing a settlement betwen Jim and Ian (since my name and/or signature appears nowhere on any paperwork, I'm not legally bound to anything) and I hope to have this settled amicably. The fact it was brought to the boards does indeed reflect poorly on both companies, but I don't give a fuck anymore.

Backov, seriously, does anyone care what people here think of them? Let us send you some mailer traffic and make up. ;)

Sorry, serious Perry Mason thread here and I'm turning it into one of those Saturday Night Live skits that just runs on for too long filling space in the show...

Backov · 01-20-2003, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SykkBoy2
Backov, seriously, does anyone care what people here think of them?

ProHosters Ted might. Likewhoa might. IBill might.

Or they might not.

gothweb · 01-20-2003, 02:43 PM

Cyberpunk's idea of a settlement is to say that the employment never started. He doesn't seem to dispute that other parts of the contract were completed. By his logic, therefore, the termination clause of the contract is not in effect, so he can offer me whatever compensation he feels is fair.

Does this sound right to anyone? I am having no luck explaining it to him, or him to me.

booker · 01-20-2003, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Backov
This looks like it will be one of those threads where neither party should be opening their mouth.

You said it. ;)

This next comment is NOT in any way directed to either or any of the parties in this dispute, let me make that clear.. I don't know all the facts nor the individuals.

I am surprized how some larger, more successful companies will go to great lengths and trouble, making threats (both physical and legal), posting on boards and so forth, over what to them is relatively small change.

I understand that large companies have to deal with many cheating webmasters who undermine the legitimacy of an industry that is so hard to protect.. and in the long and short run, each one can't be dealt with individually.

However.. my personal problem and the reason I write this was with Platinum Bucks when the rules for a contest were changed during and after the contest's duration, affecting the outcome and the eventual winners. PB is a very successful program that made a mistake by wording their contest rules in overly-simplified terms. It was over a sum less than $1000, and I was getting threats for a defamation suit from the president of PB!

If the roles were reversed, I would have gladly said, "Hey, there's a problem here. I have my position, you have your's, we disagree. How about I send you a check for $500 and a tshirt and we forget it ever happened, go on with our business." How difficult is that??

The price of an easy settlement is far exceeded by the losses from 1) posting on GFY for an hour (or two, or five) when you could be doing something else and 2) the possible black-eye you'd get from the thread.. even if you were in the right!

gothweb · 01-20-2003, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by booker

You said it. ;)

I am sad to say I agree.

Backov · 01-20-2003, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gothweb
Cyberpunk's idea of a settlement is to say that the employment never started. He doesn't seem to dispute that other parts of the contract were completed. By his logic, therefore, the termination clause of the contract is not in effect, so he can offer me whatever compensation he feels is fair.

Does this sound right to anyone? I am having no luck explaining it to him, or him to me.

No, since you had a "pre-employment" clause that covered this. Trying to back out of the contract in that manner is weasely. Contract is pretty clear cut really.

And yes, they can say "but it won't hold up in court" - but the problem is it won't ever get there, and they know it. If this is how it turns out, I'm pretty dissapointed in the biz ethics of DarkDollars.

gothweb · 01-20-2003, 03:42 PM

Well, it sounds like his offer comes out to about a third to half of what I am owed. It also so happens that I could live for maybe a month off of what I am owed, after I fill in my bank overdraft. So for three months of work, I can survive a month, but not pay off any of the debt that came out of this.

No, I am not suggesting that my need for the money determines his obligation to pay. His obligation to pay is already clear. I actually have a much simpler thing to say...

Um, anyone need any photos? Might be a good time to get a good deal out of me, since I am so poor.

Kimmykim · 01-20-2003, 03:43 PM

Ah well there are always three sides to every story and at most we'll here two.

That didn't look like 7 pages of contract posted to me, but maybe they used 18pt arial to type it out...

Many disputes in life boil down to what the perception of them is by the party that gets to decide who does what if there is no settlement.

Backov · 01-20-2003, 03:43 PM

This is the relevant passage, (bold by me)

PRE-EMPLOYMENT

Until such a time as employment is fully implemented, after the beginning of this Agreement, DarkDollars will pay the agreed salary (base plus commission) to Ian as a contractor and report these earnings on a 1099 form. Transfer of ownership, hosting, promotion, and all other parts of this agreement (save employment) will be in effect from the date of this Agreement.

Seems pretty clear cut to me.

Pay him you broke asses.

DrGuile · 01-20-2003, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gothweb
Well, it sounds like his offer comes out to about a third to half of what I am owed. It also so happens that I could live for maybe a month off of what I am owed, after I fill in my bank overdraft. So for three months of work, I can survive a month, but not pay off any of the debt that came out of this.

No, I am not suggesting that my need for the money determines his obligation to pay. His obligation to pay is already clear. I actually have a much simpler thing to say...

Um, anyone need any photos? Might be a good time to get a good deal out of me, since I am so poor.

ok, I dont care either way, but wtf?

didnt you say like 10 times you didnt want this to be public?

gothweb · 01-20-2003, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kimmykim
Ah well there are always three sides to every story and at most we'll here two.

That didn't look like 7 pages of contract posted to me, but maybe they used 18pt arial to type it out...

Many disputes in life boil down to what the perception of them is by the party that gets to decide who does what if there is no settlement.

In other words, might makes right and posession is 9/10 of the law. A pretty sad state of affairs, especially considering these people were talking about partnership, mutuality, trust, etc.

My mistake was that I trusted when I shouldn't, because I was tempted by an opportunity that was too good to be true.

Kimmykim · 01-20-2003, 03:50 PM

Sad or not Ian, that is often times the way it goes.

Personally I'd hope you guys can work this out amongst yourselves without any more ado, but you should both realize that when you do a contract, even what you may consider to be an informal one -- ie done without a lawyer -- part or all of it can be deemed very much enforceable, not always the parts one or both parties likes when you get to that point either.

I have NO opinion as to who is right or wrong here at all. As I said there are three sides to every story and I'll lay wagers there is a lot of all three sides that haven't been put out here. And probably shouldnt be.

gothweb · 01-21-2003, 06:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kimmykim
Sad or not Ian, that is often times the way it goes.

Personally I'd hope you guys can work this out amongst yourselves without any more ado, but you should both realize that when you do a contract, even what you may consider to be an informal one -- ie done without a lawyer -- part or all of it can be deemed very much enforceable, not always the parts one or both parties likes when you get to that point either.

I have NO opinion as to who is right or wrong here at all. As I said there are three sides to every story and I'll lay wagers there is a lot of all three sides that haven't been put out here. And probably shouldnt be.

I think you are right about the three sides thing. The best interpretation is probably somewhere in the middle-- and that is why I am not pushing for everything *I* think the contract entitles me to. I don't think Cyberpunk is totally fabricating his interpretation. However, I do think he had to go a long way to find an interpretation that made him totally free of any responsibility to live up to his end of the contract.

At the end of the day, I trusted someone with my livelihood, and was given all sorts of assurances that it couldn't go wrong. All the goodwill was then abandoned once my signature was on the line. Because of this, I am heavily screwed, and Cyberpunk seems to think he is doing be a favor offering me less than $1500 for three months work.

stocktrader23 · 01-21-2003, 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Backov

Note to self: Never, ever do business with DarkDollars, Sykkboy or Cyberpunk.

That's what I got from this thread. So did others. Happy yet?

I got the same thing.

gothweb · 01-21-2003, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by stocktrader23

I got the same thing.

I thought the lesson was, "Always get money upfront."

SykkBoy · 01-21-2003, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Backov
This is the relevant passage, (bold by me)

PRE-EMPLOYMENT

Until such a time as employment is fully implemented, after the beginning of this Agreement, DarkDollars will pay the agreed salary (base plus commission) to Ian as a contractor and report these earnings on a 1099 form. Transfer of ownership, hosting, promotion, and all other parts of this agreement (save employment) will be in effect from the date of this Agreement.

Seems pretty clear cut to me.

Pay him you broke asses.

Jason, give me a fucking break here....say you hire someone to do a job and they don't do that job...what would YOU do?

Let's say that person also pissed off some of your biggest traffic senders and cost you a loss of income. What would YOU do?

Should I sue for that? I won't because I truly don't give a fuck. The only reason I have a lawyer is to defend myself and keep me from saying (even more) stupid shit. I've written it off as a lesson learned.

I've been the one trying to play peacemaker and go between here and all I get is bullshit for it? Fuck this.

I have this albatross of being the "nice guy" well fuck being nice. Nice = dick in hand and/or massive dick in ass.

As for large companies, we are a small company ourselves. We probably make in a year what some programs make in a month. So, this is hardly a case of the large company chewing up and spitting out the small company. It's a contract dispute that shoudl NEVER have been taken public.

gothweb · 01-21-2003, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SykkBoy2

Jason, give me a fucking break here....say you hire someone to do a job and they don't do that job...what would YOU do?

Let's say that person also pissed off some of your biggest traffic senders and cost you a loss of income. What would YOU do?

...snip...

It's a contract dispute that shoudl NEVER have been taken public.

The problem I see is that Jim is allowed to make his own absolute judgement on whether I did the work I was contracted for. I absolutely feel that I was doing what the contract called for. Jim and I negotiated the contract, and both knew what was to be expected of me. Somehow, what we talked about, and even what was in the contract, has been ignored for his own interpretation of what I was supposed to do.

The reason for a termination clause is, at least in part, so one person can't decide for themself that the contract was breached, and arbitrarily screw the other party.

I know I pissed off some people who you work closely with. Alas, at the time, I had little knowledge of who you work with. Further, you had each told me (both before and after the fact) that I should say whatever I want, and you weren't going to tell me who not to piss off. So, as far as I concerned, its just sour grapes to complain now, or intimate at suing me.

However, as much as I feel the need to fight for my livelihood and good name, and as much as I have a hard time communicating with either of you at all unless I do so on here, I too am sick of the public fight.

You've fucked up my life, by twisting a contract (as well as posession) in your favour. I trusted you, and put my livelihood in my hands. I guess it is time for me to get back what I can from you, and move on, with lessons learned about trust in general, and your character in specific. While making this public has evoked a settlement offer that wouldn't have been made otherwise, it has done little other good. I guess I am done here. I can try to get what I am owed in private.

Sly_RJ · 01-21-2003, 05:02 PM

Never, NEVER, put your life in someone else's hands, no matter the circumstances.

I made that mistake once... "mistake" is an understatement.

gothweb · 01-21-2003, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sly_RJ
Never, NEVER, put your life in someone else's hands, no matter the circumstances.

I made that mistake once... "mistake" is an understatement.

I know, I know. I got optimistic, it was stupid.

d0se · 01-21-2003, 06:34 PM

popcorn?

gothweb · 01-21-2003, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by d0se
popcorn?

I think the show is over.

cyberpunk · 01-21-2003, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gothweb

The problem I see is that Jim is allowed to make his own absolute judgement on whether I did the work I was contracted for. I absolutely feel that I was doing what the contract called for. Jim and I negotiated the contract, and both knew what was to be expected of me. Somehow, what we talked about, and even what was in the contract, has been ignored for his own interpretation of what I was supposed to do.

The reason for a termination clause is, at least in part, so one person can't decide for themself that the contract was breached, and arbitrarily screw the other party.

I know I pissed off some people who you work closely with. Alas, at the time, I had little knowledge of who you work with. Further, you had each told me (both before and after the fact) that I should say whatever I want, and you weren't going to tell me who not to piss off. So, as far as I concerned, its just sour grapes to complain now, or intimate at suing me.

However, as much as I feel the need to fight for my livelihood and good name, and as much as I have a hard time communicating with either of you at all unless I do so on here, I too am sick of the public fight.

You've fucked up my life, by twisting a contract (as well as posession) in your favour. I trusted you, and put my livelihood in my hands. I guess it is time for me to get back what I can from you, and move on, with lessons learned about trust in general, and your character in specific. While making this public has evoked a settlement offer that wouldn't have been made otherwise, it has done little other good. I guess I am done here. I can try to get what I am owed in private.

Ian,

Its really too bad you feel this way, I do find it intresting that much like my converstatoins with you, you jsut repeat the same thing over and over and over, like in time you start to believe it. For fucksakes get a grip. You still haven;t told me where you want the ccbill acct tranferferd to, yet you find time to bump this threard over and over saying u don't want it public, I jsut hope your gettig yourself as many WMs to your program as you've gotten me over all this, and to thick I was gonna up pay out to a min 60% this week, now I guess I can wait a few more dayz to generate some spin! Tnks mate!

01-19-2003, 08:16 PM	#54
gothweb Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Back in the USSA Posts: 8,849	Normally, I wouldn't post an entire contract. However, Jim did say he would be happy to were it not so long, so what the hell... Website Ownership and Employment Agreement PARTIES The Parties to this Agreement are Ian C. [Last name removed] (hereafter, ?Ian?), [LLC name removed]dba DarkDollars (hereafter, ?DarkDollars. This agreement binds the Parties as outlined below. ALTERATIONS AND AMMENDMENTS The Parties may agree to alter or amend this agreement. Any changes that are mutually agreed can be enacted by Ian and DarkDollars signing an amendment agreement. (See later section for termination, including mutually agreed termination.) SITES COVERED BY THE AGREEMENT This Agreement covers a series of gothic adult paysites, and related sites. The sites transferred at the time of this Agreement are covered, as well as any sites created by Ian for DarkDollars in the course of this agreement. (Should Ian create any sites other than for DarkDollars, they will not be covered.) Initial sites are GothicAmateur.com, Blood Dolls (blood-dolls.com), and Gothic Undine (gothicundine.com). (See also Additional Sites, below.) SITE OWNERSHIP As part of this Agreement, ownership of the Sites will be transferred from Ian to DarkDollars. Ian will continue as manager of the sites. Should the agreement be terminated, ownership reverts to Ian or a party designated by him. DOMAINS Domains associated with the Sites (and related sites) will remain the property of Ian. They will be registered with DarkDollars? contact information, but will revert to Ian at the end of this agreement. COPYRIGHT AND CONTENT The sites contain a variety of images and other content created by Ian. Copyright to all such pre-existing content will remain with Ian. Copyright to the sites themselves will be held by DarkDollars for the duration of this agreement, and revert to Ian on termination. All content created by Ian for the sites (and otherwise)will remain his property, and license will be granted to DarkDollars as part of the Agreement for use on the Sites for the duration of the agreement. This Agreement constitutes a license to publish photographic content on the web, as outlined in further details of the agreement. All images created by Ian for the Sites during the course of the Agreement will be coved by the same terms. Should this agreement be terminated, license will be revoked. This agreement does not grant license for DarkDollars to use content produced and/or owned by Ian, except for the members ares of the Sites, tours of the sites, and promotion of the sites, all as bound by this agreement. EMPLOYMENT DarkDollars will employ Ian as a payrolled employee. He will be paid a base salary, plus commission on sales made at his sites. (These are explained in further detail elsewhere.) DarkDollars will attempt to obtain Ian a ?sole representative? work Visa to enable him to stay more flexibly in the UK. If such a Visa cannot be obtained, Ian will be employed part-time at his home address (currently in the UK.) DarkDollars will employ Ian by the beginning of 2003, and if possible obtain a work Visa for him by the same deadline. If they are not able to do so, they will continue to try past the deadline until all options are exhausted. PRE-EMPLOYMENT Until such a time as employment is fully implemented, after the beginning of this Agreement, DarkDollars will pay the agreed salary (base plus commission) to Ian as a contractor and report these earnings on a 1099 form. Transfer of ownership, hosting, promotion, and all other parts of this agreement (save employment) will be in effect from the date of this Agreement. SALARY AND COMMISSION As part of this Agreement, Ian will be paid a salary by DarkDollars. Salary will be determined by base pay plus commissions for sales to the Sites, as well as for revenue from links from the Sites. The base pay will be $150 per week. Commission will be determined as follows: For each sale made to one of the Sites, the revenue will be split evenly between DarkDollars and Ian. In some cases, a percentage commission will be paid to a referring affiliate (from 50-66.7%). A further percentage (at the time of the agreement, 12.5%) is taken by the third party billing company. The remainder of each sale will be split evenly between DarkDollars and Ian. (Extrapolating from this formula, Ian will be paid between 10.5% and 19% for each sale referred by an affiliate, and 43.75% of each non-affiliate sale.) This includes all sales made to the site, including sales generated due to promotion by either party. Payment will be made by DarkDollars payroll per standard policies. Payment of commissions will be delayed by biller turnover, each period?s salary being paid based on a previous period?s sales. Commissions will be paid in the first pay period after they are received from the biller. Salary will be paid no less than once a month. OUTGOING LINK INCOME All income generated by outgoing links from the Sites (such as affiliate program links) will be split evenly between DarkDollars and Ian. Such revenue will be paid to DarkDollars, and Ian?s portion will be paid as an additional component of his commission. Sales generated from traffic sent to other DarkDollars sites will not generate a commission for Ian. (See also, ?Outgoing Links?, below.) MAINTENANCE Ian will be responsible for the maintenance of the Sites. This will include updating their member areas and providing primary content. As part of the agreement, DarkDollars may be responsible for creating new preview areas to increase sales. Ian will maintain those areas, or existing preview areas, as well. CREATIVE CONTROL In order to maintain the good name and reputation of the sites, and himself, Ian will have complete creative control over the websites. All creative decisions will be his final call. However, DarkDollars will have authority over promotion and productivity issues, especially concerning preview areas and additional (non-primary) content for member areas. In the case of a dispute, the parties will attempt to come to an agreement. Final authority over the free areas of the Sites falls with DarkDollars, while final authority over the member areas of the Sites, and all parts of related sites, lies with Ian. Both parties agree to an ?if it isn? broke, don?t fix it? philosophy, allowing the sites to be improved but not drastically changed in direction and strategy. Pricing will be decided between the parties in order to maximize productivity. The sites may be used to direct traffic towards other DarkDollars sites, but it will be done in a way that is not overly obtrusive, avoiding excessive pop-ups and so-forth. Both parties agree to work to ensure the optimal reputation and productivity of the sites. As such, both Parties will have right of review of basic policies, in order to ensure the site?s reputation and productivity are not harmed. No party will take any action that directly contradicts this goal. The free preview areas of the sites will honestly reflect the content of the member areas, and emphasis will be placed on the primary content. OUTGOING LINKS As part of control of productivity, DarkDollars will regulate links from the Sites. Final decision of outgoing links will be theirs, except as governed by this agreement. As part of maintenance/control of the member area, Ian will have the choice to feature guest galleries, and otherwise link to other sites. Links from within the member area will be at his discretion, within reason. Ian will be allowed to ensure that links to all members of the ?QE: Quality Erotica? and ?Gothic Sex Network? coalitions, as well as the coalition sites themselves, can be given prominent placement on all Sites. DarkDollars may, however, regulate the exact location and details of such links. (See also, ?Outgoing Link Income?, above.) ADDITIONAL CONTENT DarkDollars will provide additional content for the Sites. This content will include a very large collection of mainstream adult images (possibly from a third party), as well as a considerable collection of dark or gothic niche adult images from other DarkDollars sites and related ventures. Emphasis will be on the primary content. Promotion of secondary content will be auxiliary, as will its placement in the member area. __________________ Photos by Ian X.: Distinctive photos of goth babes. Blood Money:Your traffic, my sites, our money. MojoHost: Still the best.

01-19-2003, 08:16 PM	#55
gothweb Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Back in the USSA Posts: 8,849	HOSTING DarkDollars will host the Sites, starting at the beginning of this Agreement. Hosting will be provided on DarkDollars? choice of host/server. Ian will have unlimited hosting available for the Sites and certain related sites. Some related sites will be hosted by Dark Dollars, in some cases still owned by Ian. Only sites that promote the Sites will be covered, unless otherwise agreed by Dark Dollars. Related sites include but are not limited to Quality Erotica (quality-erotica.com), The Gothic Sex Network (gothicsex.net), Vail the Blood Doll (blood-doll.com) and Blood Dolls content, forum, etc. (blood-dolls.net). PROMOTION DarkDollars will promote the Sites to the best of their ability. The sites will be added to the DarkDollars program, and promoted on the program website. DarkDollars will also promote the sites in other ways, both to viewers and webmasters. Ian will continue to promote the sites and work to maximize their productivity and traffic. At least one of the Sites will be treated as a flagship site in the DarkDollars program, similar to the position of GothicSex.com. Specific details are left open, and the parties agree to the intention. SPECIAL CONDITIONS FOR PHOTOS OF ?BIANCA? (AND OTHERS) As per previous agreements with the model known as ?Bianca?, there are special conditions for use of any photos including her. All photos of ?Bianca? remain property and copyright of Ian, and he will ensure that they are used as she wishes as per agreements (written or verbal) between Ian and ?Bianca?. No photos of Bianca will be used on any site other than Blood Dolls or GothicAmateur.com without her permission. They may not be sold, licensed, or otherwise transferred unless she gives her consent. Use of photos of Bianca in the tour for GothicAmateur.com are allowed. She has the right to ask any photo of her in the tour to be removed or changed. (This is not likely.) A limited number of photos of Bianca may (or may not) be made available for promotion of GothicAmateur.com and/or Blood Dolls. She will have final approval of such images. Photos of Bianca may not be used on other sites, in print, or in any other way without her express permission. General permission is only given for the member areas of GothicAmateur.com and Blood Dolls. Bianca may choose to have the Parties remove her photos from the Sites. This will mean all members area images and tour images, and ceasing to make promotional materials available that include her likeness. In cases where promotional material can be withdrawn from other sites, it should be. The standard condition for removal of Bianca?s photos will allow one year for all images to be removed. By this time, all of the above conditions must be met. In cases of emergency, Bianca may ask to have her photos removed as quickly as possible. This includes all of the above conditions being met within two weeks, without exception. Emergencies include, but are not limited to, threat of loss of employment, legal action, and threat to personal safety. In the future, models may also have similar agreements with Ian regarding their photos. In all cases, agreements with Ian and his ownership of the content will determine use of any images, likeness, and name of models and other related parties. TERMINATION This section contains the procedures for termination of the Agreement. It is designed to protect the financial and personal interests of both parties. It is intended that our business relationship will be a profitable, long term commitment, however, if either party decides to terminate the agreement, it shall be in writing and CC?d via email to [email removed], [email removed] and [email removed] within 30 days of intended termination. This is void if it is impossible to give 30 days notice (extreme illness, death or anything else beyond the control of either party). The minimum length of this relationship is 6 months and is to be renewed within 30 days of the end of the agreement. Should the partnership be terminated within that 6-month period, the terminating party retains the option of being compensated until the 6-month period. If Ian wishes to terminate the agreement prematurely (before the 6-month period ends), DarkDollars retains the option of receiving compensation until the end of the 6-month period is reached. Compensation is to include any recurring commissions, traffic trade relationships established during the tenure of this agreement, commissions on upsell programs added during the course of this agreement and any additional income and/or traffic established upon commencement of this agreement. In the event Ian decides to terminate this agreement, he may, at the discretion of both parties, offer a lump sum buyout based upon a percentage of the projected income figures during the 6-month agreement period. If DarkDollars decides to terminate the agreement within the 6-month period, Ian is entitled to any compensation otherwise allotted during that time, including commissions on membership sales to any of the DarkDollars sites, traffic acquired as a direct result of a working relationship with Ian, commissions on upsell products implemented as a direct result of working with Ian and any other traffic or financial gains made as a direct result of working with Ian. In the event DarkDollars decides to terminate this agreement, they may, at the discretion of both parties, offer a lump sum buyout based upon a percentage of the projected income figures during the 6-month agreement period. Should both parties agree to amicably terminate this relationship, within the context of this agreement (written notification within 30 days of the 6-month period), then no additional compensation will be required by either party. Should both parties agree to terminate this agreement, Ian reserves the right to continue hosting with DarkDollars at a reasonable standard retail hosting price. If Ian decides to move his hosting to another hosting company, DarkDollars agrees to not impede the transfer of any domains affected. Should the agreement be terminated, whether by breach by one party or mutual assent by Ian and DarkDollars, all sites and copyright will revert to Ian. Existing rebilling memberships will continue to be split as per this agreement. All services offered by DarkDollars in enhancing and promoting the sites will be ceased unless other arrangements are made. Various details of termination are given throughout this agreement. In general, except where exceptions are noted, all details will return to their state before this agreement. ( Note: I think anything personal has been removed.) __________________ Photos by Ian X.: Distinctive photos of goth babes. Blood Money:Your traffic, my sites, our money. MojoHost: Still the best.

01-19-2003, 08:18 PM	#56
Sly_RJ Live Hard - Die Hard Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Ready to leave... Posts: 17,042	Ian, a little advice for the time being... Stop posting. __________________ PHAT SERVERS - Quality dedicated hosting at a quality price! sly AT phatservers DOT com - 147479144

01-19-2003, 08:21 PM	#58
Backov Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Cat Detector Van Posts: 1,600	Cyber, If this is the contract you signed, you owe him wages and the ccbill account reverts to him. There are no special gotchas for "breaches" - you signed this, you better hold it up or your word is shit. Next time you want to screw someone, have the lawyer write in the screwing clauses - this is a fair contract and you owe him. Cheers, Backov __________________ <embed src="http://banners.spotbrokers.com/button.swf" FlashVars="clickURL=http://banners.spotbrokers.com" quality=high pluginspage="http://www.macromedia.com/shockwave/download/index.cgi?P1_Prod_Version=ShockwaveFlash" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="120" height="60"></embed>

01-19-2003, 08:21 PM	#59
FATPad Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 6,693	Great. Another thread I won't read again. Thanks for the sound file. __________________ <a href="http://www.adultcontent.co.uk">Adult Content UK - Great British Content</a>

01-19-2003, 08:21 PM	#60
cyberpunk Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 1,377	ok let the armchair lawyers begin __________________ POST NO ADS!

01-19-2003, 08:29 PM	#66
Backov Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Cat Detector Van Posts: 1,600	That's the point of this thread.. If you screw him as you seem to be planning, we'll know you did. Remember that thing called reputation? It's what this board is all about. __________________ <embed src="http://banners.spotbrokers.com/button.swf" FlashVars="clickURL=http://banners.spotbrokers.com" quality=high pluginspage="http://www.macromedia.com/shockwave/download/index.cgi?P1_Prod_Version=ShockwaveFlash" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="120" height="60"></embed>

01-19-2003, 08:32 PM	#67
cyberpunk Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 1,377	What part gives you the idea I was planning on screwing him? Fuck I even turned the poor bastards hosting back on However if u all think my plan was/is to screw him I'm willing to play it out that way in the courts too __________________ POST NO ADS! Last edited by cyberpunk; 01-19-2003 at 08:34 PM..

01-19-2003, 08:37 PM	#68
gothweb Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Back in the USSA Posts: 8,849	For the record, I don't think you were planning on screwing me all along. I don't think this has worked out at all well, but I also don't think you are that bad by a long shot. __________________ Photos by Ian X.: Distinctive photos of goth babes. Blood Money:Your traffic, my sites, our money. MojoHost: Still the best.

01-19-2003, 08:44 PM	#70
cyberpunk Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 1,377	BAckov your call mate __________________ POST NO ADS!

01-19-2003, 08:58 PM	#73
Diamond Jim Confirmed User Join Date: May 2001 Location: USA Posts: 150	Whoever posted the sound file... Backov, contracts like this are easily contestable and can be considered in breach by either party. If Dark Dollars contests that Ian performed his "employment" in bad faith (ie, work not done), he may be in breach himself...I have serious doubt this agreement was even READ by an attorney, much less written by one...holes all over the place... Ridiculous that this is brought to a public place over pocket change...come to a fair agreement and move on...

01-19-2003, 09:06 PM	#75
quiet we'll miss you our friend. RIP Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Fernie, BC Posts: 25,115	(1) people who post sound files in threads should be shot, point blank range. (2) how much does your hosting cost a month gw (if you were paying for it)? __________________ we'll miss you our friend. RIP

01-20-2003, 08:57 AM	#77
nuclei old school fart Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Location: Florida Posts: 1,015	Hmmm this is becoming a pattern __________________ The next generation of SEO

01-20-2003, 01:52 PM	#79
SykkBoy Jesus loves bacon Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Sin City, Motherfucker Posts: 19,969	I've remained silent on these threads due to being offline for a few days and on advice of my attorney. I'll only say that I've been discussing a settlement betwen Jim and Ian (since my name and/or signature appears nowhere on any paperwork, I'm not legally bound to anything) and I hope to have this settled amicably. The fact it was brought to the boards does indeed reflect poorly on both companies, but I don't give a fuck anymore. Backov, seriously, does anyone care what people here think of them? Let us send you some mailer traffic and make up. ;) Sorry, serious Perry Mason thread here and I'm turning it into one of those Saturday Night Live skits that just runs on for too long filling space in the show... __________________ Support my new movie “The Second Coming”

01-20-2003, 02:43 PM	#81
gothweb Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Back in the USSA Posts: 8,849	Cyberpunk's idea of a settlement is to say that the employment never started. He doesn't seem to dispute that other parts of the contract were completed. By his logic, therefore, the termination clause of the contract is not in effect, so he can offer me whatever compensation he feels is fair. Does this sound right to anyone? I am having no luck explaining it to him, or him to me. __________________ Photos by Ian X.: Distinctive photos of goth babes. Blood Money:Your traffic, my sites, our money. MojoHost: Still the best.

01-20-2003, 03:42 PM	#85
gothweb Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Back in the USSA Posts: 8,849	Well, it sounds like his offer comes out to about a third to half of what I am owed. It also so happens that I could live for maybe a month off of what I am owed, after I fill in my bank overdraft. So for three months of work, I can survive a month, but not pay off any of the debt that came out of this. No, I am not suggesting that my need for the money determines his obligation to pay. His obligation to pay is already clear. I actually have a much simpler thing to say... Um, anyone need any photos? Might be a good time to get a good deal out of me, since I am so poor. __________________ Photos by Ian X.: Distinctive photos of goth babes. Blood Money:Your traffic, my sites, our money. MojoHost: Still the best.

01-20-2003, 03:43 PM	#86
Kimmykim bitchslapping zebras!!!!! Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: In a shack by the beach Posts: 16,015	Ah well there are always three sides to every story and at most we'll here two. That didn't look like 7 pages of contract posted to me, but maybe they used 18pt arial to type it out... Many disputes in life boil down to what the perception of them is by the party that gets to decide who does what if there is no settlement.

01-20-2003, 03:50 PM	#90
Kimmykim bitchslapping zebras!!!!! Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: In a shack by the beach Posts: 16,015	Sad or not Ian, that is often times the way it goes. Personally I'd hope you guys can work this out amongst yourselves without any more ado, but you should both realize that when you do a contract, even what you may consider to be an informal one -- ie done without a lawyer -- part or all of it can be deemed very much enforceable, not always the parts one or both parties likes when you get to that point either. I have NO opinion as to who is right or wrong here at all. As I said there are three sides to every story and I'll lay wagers there is a lot of all three sides that haven't been put out here. And probably shouldnt be.

01-21-2003, 05:02 PM	#96
Sly_RJ Live Hard - Die Hard Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Ready to leave... Posts: 17,042	Never, NEVER, put your life in someone else's hands, no matter the circumstances. I made that mistake once... "mistake" is an understatement. __________________ PHAT SERVERS - Quality dedicated hosting at a quality price! sly AT phatservers DOT com - 147479144

01-21-2003, 06:34 PM	#98
d0se Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Western Australia Posts: 1,225	popcorn?