Affrimative action - GoFuckYourself.com

kenny · 01-16-2003, 06:56 PM

I was watching some debate type show on CNN. Apparently some colleges use a system of points to determind who gets accepted, if you are of a minority race (not white) you already have like 20 points on your behalf. That cant be fair, this is suppose to be equal oppurtunity, why does the white guy always have to getted fucked? (Last sentence was a joke)

Cheshire · 01-16-2003, 06:58 PM

There are three students suing a Law school (irony) for expressing heavy favor on the admission of African American and Hispanic students over equally qualified Caucasian ones.

Chong · 01-16-2003, 06:59 PM

university of michigan does that (thats why i'm not there right now!) apparently bush is trying to change that system...
http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/...ion/index.html

FlyingIguana · 01-16-2003, 06:59 PM

its a half ass way of righting the wrongs of rascism.

kenny · 01-16-2003, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cheshire
There are three students suing a Law school (irony) for expressing heavy favor on the admission of African American and Hispanic students over equally qualified Caucasian ones.

The one they where talking about had a system of points and minority races already had points because of their race. I think white people should get points too.

TDF · 01-16-2003, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by FlyingIguana
its a half ass way of righting the wrongs of rascism.

no doubt

Chong · 01-16-2003, 07:03 PM

yeah, the same school was weighing race more than SAT/ACT scores. i think they got things a bit mixed up?

SpaceAce · 01-16-2003, 07:04 PM

Of course it isn't fair, and I happen to believe it's degrading, as well. Basically: "You can't make it without Whitey giving you a hand."

It's patronizing bullshit and I think it creates more problems than it solves. Affirmative action certainly started out with noble goals, but...

My girlfriend was telling me about an NPR radio show she was listening to a week or two ago. The show is hosted by a black man who has a degree in (something or other, I forget). Anyway, the topic of the show was related to affirmative action and my girlfriend was telling me how the guy got several calls from black people basically calling him an Uncle Tom and telling him he couldn't have gotten anywhere without affirmative action. That sounds like pretty self-destructive thinking, to me.

The problem is that hiring and admissions policies that are based on race are no better in one direction than in the other. It's not right when it's done to group "A" and it isn't any more right if you turn around and do it to group "B" in order to make up for doing it to group "A".

Of course, it isn't realistic to expect people to _actually_ get hired only on qualifications. People's internal prejudices will always come through, but I don't think handicapping someone for not being in a minority group will help anything.

SpaceAce

Cheshire · 01-16-2003, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by kenny
The one they where talking about had a system of points and minority races already had points because of their race. I think white people should get points too.

I'd prefer a pointy stick.

kenny · 01-16-2003, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by FlyingIguana
its a half ass way of righting the wrongs of rascism.

From when? Almost 50 years ago? This is now and it is suppose to be equal.

<IMX> · 01-16-2003, 07:10 PM

Want to know the largest group that benefits from preferential admission policies at MOST schools of "distinction."

It is a "dirty" secret...

Those like G.W.Bush...

Legacies.

BJ · 01-16-2003, 07:14 PM

kenny · 01-16-2003, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by <IMX>
Want to know the largest group that benefits from preferential admission policies at MOST schools of "distinction."

It is a "dirty" secret...

Those like G.W.Bush...

Legacies.

Actually my vote would go towards money

kevinl · 01-17-2003, 01:21 AM

blatant racism should be exterminated.

tical · 01-17-2003, 01:59 AM

anyone seen Undercover Brother...

good stuff

FlyingIguana · 01-17-2003, 05:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by kenny

From when? Almost 50 years ago? This is now and it is suppose to be equal.

its far from equal. people are still biased, even if they don't realize it.

High Quality · 01-17-2003, 05:18 AM

Heh, "fairness". When will people learn that private universities can admit whomever they want. Eventually universities that make the wrong choice will be churning out inferior students and will lower their rankings.

Yep, its not "fair" that some universities may be initially bias against me because I am of a certain race. But education is a commodity and private universities can grant access to it to whomever they wish.

FlyingIguana · 01-17-2003, 05:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by High Quality
Heh, "fairness". When will people learn that private universities can admit whomever they want. Eventually universities that make the wrong choice will be churning out inferior students and will lower their rankings.

Yep, its not "fair" that some universities may be initially bias against me because I am of a certain race. But education is a commodity and private universities can grant access to it to whomever they wish.

do private universities in the states get any government money?

Gutterboy · 01-17-2003, 05:28 AM

My question is this: why is no one questioning the affirmative action program that overwhelmingly benefits rich, white students?

If your parent and/or grandparents attended a school and/or are big donors, you have a much better chance (at Harvard its a 400% better chance..) of getting into the school over an equally qualified student. Its called Legacy Admissions, and close to 98% of all of them go to white students. Legacy admissions exist at almost all major state universities and ivy league schools.

I think its rather telling that the "fairness" whiners only start bleating when its minorities getting pushed ahead.

FlyingIguana · 01-17-2003, 05:50 AM

you don't bite the hand that feeds you

<IMX> · 01-17-2003, 05:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gutterboy
My question is this: why is no one questioning the affirmative action program that overwhelmingly benefits rich, white students?

If your parent and/or grandparents attended a school and/or are big donors, you have a much better chance (at Harvard its a 400% better chance..) of getting into the school over an equally qualified student. Its called Legacy Admissions, and close to 98% of all of them go to white students. Legacy admissions exist at almost all major state universities and ivy league schools.

I think its rather telling that the "fairness" whiners only start bleating when its minorities getting pushed ahead.

very well said.

Gutterboy · 01-17-2003, 05:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by FlyingIguana
you don't bite the hand that feeds you

I agree, and I'm not suggesting they do. Just pointing out that most people who are against affirmative action are really only against it when it applies to minorities. Those attitudes vindicate the arguments used in favor of affirmative action (the minority kind) in the first place.

Rilose · 01-17-2003, 06:03 AM

haha fucking white man discrimination...good !!! you fuckers....

wait a sec..ummm sorry, I am white.....whoops

DjSap · 01-17-2003, 06:46 AM

We are propably going to get affirmative action in Sweden within a year or two and it really is a shame, I myself wont know if I got a job because of my background or because I know my shit. Here in Sweden we call affirmative action "positive special treatment", yeah I guess the whites in South Africa were treatet specially in a positive way. It's pure racism end of story.

FlyingIguana · 01-17-2003, 06:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gutterboy

I agree, and I'm not suggesting they do. Just pointing out that most people who are against affirmative action are really only against it when it applies to minorities. Those attitudes vindicate the arguments used in favor of affirmative action (the minority kind) in the first place.

those admission policies don't discriminate based on race. if a black man was donating money, his children would have a leg up just as any other family who donated.

kevinl · 01-17-2003, 02:03 PM

Quote:

If your parent and/or grandparents attended a school and/or are big donors, you have a much better chance (at Harvard its a 400% better chance..) of getting into the school over an equally qualified student. Its called Legacy Admissions, and close to 98% of all of them go to white students. Legacy admissions exist at almost all major state universities and ivy league schools.

When did state schools have legacy admissions. Legacies only apply to private schools.

FATPad · 01-17-2003, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gutterboy
My question is this: why is no one questioning the affirmative action program that overwhelmingly benefits rich, white students?

If your parent and/or grandparents attended a school and/or are big donors, you have a much better chance (at Harvard its a 400% better chance..) of getting into the school over an equally qualified student. Its called Legacy Admissions, and close to 98% of all of them go to white students. Legacy admissions exist at almost all major state universities and ivy league schools.

I think its rather telling that the "fairness" whiners only start bleating when its minorities getting pushed ahead.

They key part of that is "over an equally qualified student".

In case of a tie, admission goes to the person who has more connections in the school.

That's quite different from taking black people who aren't as qualified just to fill a quota.

G Sharp · 01-17-2003, 03:11 PM

I don't want to sound like a cynic but it seems many middle class white students with mediocre grades compensate for the slots eaten up my race/ethnicity based affirmative action.

They do it through disability admissions. I had a couple of friends from college that got into medical school by claiming "dygraphia"--apparently this is fairly common but good enough of a disability to get into http://www.med.stanford.edu/

I don't really have a problem with all this preferential treatment stuff. Maybe I'm just cynical but if everyone who got a degree from the finest institutions or got a job at the best firms were the best and brightest this country produced then why aren't all our presidents the same moral and intellectual calibre as Abraham Lincoln? or FDR?

playa · 01-17-2003, 04:58 PM

Some people needs to stop crying,,
just looking for someone to blame
they wouldn't of made it anyways

01-16-2003, 06:56 PM	#1
kenny Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 7,245	Affrimative action I was watching some debate type show on CNN. Apparently some colleges use a system of points to determind who gets accepted, if you are of a minority race (not white) you already have like 20 points on your behalf. That cant be fair, this is suppose to be equal oppurtunity, why does the white guy always have to getted fucked? (Last sentence was a joke)

01-16-2003, 06:58 PM	#2
Cheshire Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Rosen-Villin Posts: 5,738	There are three students suing a Law school (irony) for expressing heavy favor on the admission of African American and Hispanic students over equally qualified Caucasian ones. __________________ just a little bit naughty

01-16-2003, 07:10 PM	#11
<IMX> Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 2,728	Want to know the largest group that benefits from preferential admission policies at MOST schools of "distinction." It is a "dirty" secret... Those like G.W.Bush... Legacies. __________________ $$$ Check out NICHE PAY the leader of Micro Niche Sites! They offer $1 Trials! $$$ $$$ Check out 10 FREE TRIAL SALES equals 1 FREE LAP TOP ! $$$

01-17-2003, 01:21 AM	#14
kevinl Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: US Posts: 261	blatant racism should be exterminated. __________________ kevinl

01-17-2003, 06:03 AM	#23
Rilose Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: USA Posts: 565	haha fucking white man discrimination...good !!! you fuckers.... wait a sec..ummm sorry, I am white.....whoops __________________ GFX/WEB/PRINT r i l o s e @ h o t m a i l . d o t c o m

01-16-2003, 06:59 PM	#3
Chong Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Vegas Posts: 1,584	university of michigan does that (thats why i'm not there right now!) apparently bush is trying to change that system... http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/...ion/index.html

01-16-2003, 06:59 PM	#4
FlyingIguana aspiring banker Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: toronto Posts: 10,870	its a half ass way of righting the wrongs of rascism.

01-16-2003, 07:03 PM	#7
Chong Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Vegas Posts: 1,584	yeah, the same school was weighing race more than SAT/ACT scores. i think they got things a bit mixed up?

01-16-2003, 07:04 PM	#8
SpaceAce Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Magrathea Posts: 6,493	Of course it isn't fair, and I happen to believe it's degrading, as well. Basically: "You can't make it without Whitey giving you a hand." It's patronizing bullshit and I think it creates more problems than it solves. Affirmative action certainly started out with noble goals, but... My girlfriend was telling me about an NPR radio show she was listening to a week or two ago. The show is hosted by a black man who has a degree in (something or other, I forget). Anyway, the topic of the show was related to affirmative action and my girlfriend was telling me how the guy got several calls from black people basically calling him an Uncle Tom and telling him he couldn't have gotten anywhere without affirmative action. That sounds like pretty self-destructive thinking, to me. The problem is that hiring and admissions policies that are based on race are no better in one direction than in the other. It's not right when it's done to group "A" and it isn't any more right if you turn around and do it to group "B" in order to make up for doing it to group "A". Of course, it isn't realistic to expect people to _actually_ get hired only on qualifications. People's internal prejudices will always come through, but I don't think handicapping someone for not being in a minority group will help anything. SpaceAce

01-16-2003, 07:14 PM	#12
BJ Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: asia Posts: 5,590

01-17-2003, 01:59 AM	#15
tical Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 6,504	anyone seen Undercover Brother... good stuff

01-17-2003, 05:18 AM	#17
High Quality Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Vegas Posts: 5,741	Heh, "fairness". When will people learn that private universities can admit whomever they want. Eventually universities that make the wrong choice will be churning out inferior students and will lower their rankings. Yep, its not "fair" that some universities may be initially bias against me because I am of a certain race. But education is a commodity and private universities can grant access to it to whomever they wish.

01-17-2003, 05:28 AM	#19
Gutterboy So Fucking Banned Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Dis Posts: 4,751	My question is this: why is no one questioning the affirmative action program that overwhelmingly benefits rich, white students? If your parent and/or grandparents attended a school and/or are big donors, you have a much better chance (at Harvard its a 400% better chance..) of getting into the school over an equally qualified student. Its called Legacy Admissions, and close to 98% of all of them go to white students. Legacy admissions exist at almost all major state universities and ivy league schools. I think its rather telling that the "fairness" whiners only start bleating when its minorities getting pushed ahead.

01-17-2003, 05:50 AM	#20
FlyingIguana aspiring banker Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: toronto Posts: 10,870	you don't bite the hand that feeds you

01-17-2003, 06:46 AM	#24
DjSap Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,869	We are propably going to get affirmative action in Sweden within a year or two and it really is a shame, I myself wont know if I got a job because of my background or because I know my shit. Here in Sweden we call affirmative action "positive special treatment", yeah I guess the whites in South Africa were treatet specially in a positive way. It's pure racism end of story.

01-17-2003, 03:11 PM	#28
G Sharp So Fucking Banned Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 1,343	I don't want to sound like a cynic but it seems many middle class white students with mediocre grades compensate for the slots eaten up my race/ethnicity based affirmative action. They do it through disability admissions. I had a couple of friends from college that got into medical school by claiming "dygraphia"--apparently this is fairly common but good enough of a disability to get into http://www.med.stanford.edu/ I don't really have a problem with all this preferential treatment stuff. Maybe I'm just cynical but if everyone who got a degree from the finest institutions or got a job at the best firms were the best and brightest this country produced then why aren't all our presidents the same moral and intellectual calibre as Abraham Lincoln? or FDR?

01-17-2003, 04:58 PM	#29
playa Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: atlanta, GA Posts: 6,432	Some people needs to stop crying,, just looking for someone to blame they wouldn't of made it anyways