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-   -   Is finding a programmer impossible? (https://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=1004035)

wdsguy 01-02-2011 02:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tinafaye (Post 17813278)
Most of the good programmers cost money. I have worked with konrad on three projects thus far and his rate is effectively 3x more than any other programmer I worked with in the past but it was money well spent because the scripts I ordered worked right away as I had ordered them, no time wasting post install thinkering bs.


konrad is good, hes done some work for me.

grumpy 01-02-2011 04:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tinafaye (Post 17813278)
Most of the good programmers cost money. I have worked with konrad on three projects thus far and his rate is effectively 3x more than any other programmer I worked with in the past but it was money well spent because the scripts I ordered worked right away as I had ordered them, no time wasting post install thinkering bs.

there you go, you get what you pay for

bluevision 01-02-2011 06:26 AM

Hi,
Could you specify what exactly you need done? Maybe we can assist you.

GirlsOnYou 01-02-2011 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carzygirls (Post 17812833)
So how do I get my small maintenence type jobs done?
These are the 2 minor tweaks prior to getting started on a new site, point is, still not done.

Make some posts saying you want to hire a programmer long-term and as a trial task make them do that job for free. :1orglaugh

Altwebdesign 01-02-2011 07:24 AM

hit me up, lets chat sometime!

MrPinks 01-02-2011 09:46 AM

Masterut did some code clean up on my site and addea quite a few features. To say he actually programmed the entire site would be far from the truth. Nonetheless, pretty good guy to work with.

Can't wait to release my lastest version of MrPinks. Getting antsy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by carzygirls (Post 17811223)
You did mrpinks.com ? Sending you an email now


Klen 01-02-2011 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grumpy (Post 17812725)
75 is the minimum i charge.

That's beacuse you live in expensive country.

grumpy 01-02-2011 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KlenTelaris (Post 17813880)
That's beacuse you live in expensive country.

i have done projects all over the world also in India (i charged more there :thumbsup )

carzygirls 01-05-2011 07:08 PM

Ok... here is the information and contacts I have gathered and my response.

My ICQ is 360151609 and my email to use is mjmj00 at the aol

Will76 - Has some programmers used in past and they may be able to help me out
Response: I am interested in who they are and would like to discuss.

Sarettah - Likes to ask a ton of questions
Response: No thanks

Slutboat - Lots of experience hiring and firing
Response: Does me no good, what to hire 1 person to rely on

HomerSimpson - we talked on ICQ already

bl4h - made comment about needing to be a programmer to know a programmer and in philly.
Response: Are you a programmer and are you looking for work?

sheken - does some php programming work
Response: I have a project in mind that involves dedication and ability to follow through... what else can you do and can you follow through?

myneid - programmer, owns your own company
Response: $5000 retainer monthly is just way to high for not absolute 100% dedication to projects. $2500 retainer just simply doesn't get the job done with 20 hours alloted up to 40 and then employees start saying "well I can do that but will take another hour" kinda thing

masterut - we talked on ICQ and you did some updates for MrPink
Response: I need a portfolio

camperjohn64 - totally booked right now and I gues freelance programs
Response: bodydot.com in your sig has "no content here" as a site

brandonstills - a programmer and seems to be fed up looking for clients who pay in adult
Response: would like to talk

various - no idea if you take on programming jobs
Response: would like to talk

borked - programmer as well
Response: we talked a couple times on ICQ and you always were so booked, also from recollection 100 euros per hour

grumpy - minimum to charge is $75
Response - No thanks, not intersted in hearing how much money you made in India ;)

peace - knows somebody
Response - contacted you 3 times and no response to the $1200 available programmer

bluevision - does the whole shabang
Response - Do you have some references and do you outsource your programming?

At this point I would be interested in hearing from....

will76
bl4h
brandonstills
various
peace
bluevision

So that is what I have gotten out of this thread and I am looking for a reliable, ongoing programmer for many projects.

Email is best, top of post. thanks

blackmonsters 01-05-2011 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by will76 (Post 17810451)
you sound like a coder and seem to take it personal that people try to find better deals.


the difference is that I can only find so many local auto mechanics and the $75 an hour they charge for labor goes to the shop, they make a lot lot less than that.

Where as a programmer can be located in any part of the world. In places where the cost of living is very low therefore they can do the same job for 1/4 the price of someone in the US and live 10x better.

And also I've paid the $80 - $100 an hour for local based coders before just to have them never follow through. The best programmers I found were over seas where $20 an hour was equal to about $100 here and they did a great work and valued their job. It was a lot more then they could make in their area and they lived very well because of it.

I've personally never had good experiences with Indian programmers and can't stand the ones that nickle and dime you and ride the clock. No matter who you use you need to go through a lot of bad apples to find a good one.

You brag about finding cheap programmers and then complain that they suck.

:helpme:helpme:helpme

Varius 01-05-2011 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carzygirls (Post 17823390)
various - no idea if you take on programming jobs
Response: would like to talk

At this time and for the foreseeable future, I am not taking on any work as I am involved in partnerships and projects which require long-term exclusivity :)

sarettah 01-05-2011 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carzygirls (Post 17823390)
Sarettah - Likes to ask a ton of questions
Response: No thanks

For the record, I hate asking lots of questions. However, I have found that estimating a task requires an understanding of the task that goes deeper than most people think.

My way has worked for me for the past 35 years or so, but what do I know?

Like I said in the previous thread, Good Luck with that :thumbsup

borked 01-06-2011 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carzygirls (Post 17823390)

borked - programmer as well
Response: we talked a couple times on ICQ and you always were so booked, also from recollection 100 euros per hour


I don't believe I've ever spoken to you and I certainly don't charge ?100/hr for programming - specialised services yes, but not programming. Please don't spread false information about me. :2 cents:

lawked 01-06-2011 02:03 PM

My take on things: some programmers take on jobs they do not like and end up regretting it.

I specialize in perl+POE doing the following; using multiple ips to get around throttles, scraping, and more.

I use HTML::TreeParser for parsing.

I know my best parser I've ever built is related to google scraping. I've got so many paths down, I can isolate anything...

Now, if you need scraping, lemme know... If your job is something else... All the best.
Jeff.

Location: Calgary, Canada.

BestXXXPorn 01-06-2011 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by borked (Post 17812665)
there's a huge difference between employing someone full time and taking someone on a per-project, per hour basis. That is where the difference in price comes from - if you are prepared to commit a salary position to a programmer, month in month out, then your per hour rate will be a lot lot less.

The same goes for every walk of business life.

qft

Also, @brandonstills

Don't be knocking PHP up in here... I guarantee I can write an app that will out perform any other language when run in the correct, optimized environment for virtually any task. (Notice I said virtually any task :))

First off, if you think any scripting language these days is a blocking factor to code running fast and/or efficiently... you're going to lose a LOT of credibility in my eyes.

If anything, code wise, it's some of these frameworks that show poor performance. Even Rails... I love RoR syntactically but it is a slow ass bitch when compared to other frameworks/languages! It is, IMO, the most elegant syntax on the planet and I love Ruby for it's pure OO driven syntax however... it's slooooow. RoR heads will argue that caching allows RoR apps to stay on par... sure but that doesn't leave any room to catch up with other languages when they use caching as well!

Right now the largest limiting factor is storage, specifically, relational storage. That's why NoSQL is so hot right now... When you start to take into account large scalability + social features (which require much more responsive times and larger data sets) it's no wonder everything is moving towards NoSQL!

PHP is a fantastic language and anyone that says otherwise is just ridding the elitist short bus. I am proficient in a LOT of different languages yet still prefer to write _most_ web apps in PHP for a variety of different reasons. Not the least of which is speed...

I will say though that your posts about the best developers being able to cherry pick the best and most profitable opportunities are absolutely correct! You definitely have a firm grasp on where most of the top developers sit as well as a variety of other topics, I just had a bone to pick with the whole ripping on PHP thing :)

BestXXXPorn 01-06-2011 02:28 PM

Oh @carzygirls... didn't mean to troll your thread, best of luck in the search! I'd add my name to that list but I no longer take freelance work that isn't a huge project ($50k+). Not trying to sound elitist at all. I just have my own projects and to pull me off my passion, you've gotta rip my attention away and give me a new focus for a number of months :D

wdsguy 01-06-2011 02:31 PM

lawked whats your contact info?

punker barbie 01-06-2011 02:36 PM

just hit you up on icq

wdsguy 01-06-2011 02:36 PM

I've emailed borked a few times and never a response, guess my money is just no good :-(

lawked 01-06-2011 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wdsguy (Post 17825404)
lawked whats your contact info?

icq: 127303334

borked 01-06-2011 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wdsguy (Post 17825416)
I've emailed borked a few times and never a response, guess my money is just no good :-(

huh? I've never ignored a single email...

BestXXXPorn 01-06-2011 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by borked (Post 17825516)
huh? I've never ignored a single email...

I've never had a problem trying to get a hold of you and I wasn't even offering work :P

pristine 01-06-2011 03:39 PM

Most of the good coders weren't even mentioned yet.

BestXXXPorn 01-06-2011 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pristine (Post 17825582)
Most of the good coders weren't even mentioned yet.

Well shit, help the guy out and post'em up so he can find a good one!

Altwebdesign 01-06-2011 04:32 PM

any one looking for a coder. .. hit me on ICQ 348856909 or email me [email protected]

I can provide references. . .

wdsguy 01-06-2011 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by borked (Post 17825516)
huh? I've never ignored a single email...


I'll try again but you are probably all booked anyways.

brandonstills 01-06-2011 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BestXXXPorn (Post 17825384)
qft

Also, @brandonstills

Don't be knocking PHP up in here... I guarantee I can write an app that will out perform any other language when run in the correct, optimized environment for virtually any task. (Notice I said virtually any task :))

First off, if you think any scripting language these days is a blocking factor to code running fast and/or efficiently... you're going to lose a LOT of credibility in my eyes.

If anything, code wise, it's some of these frameworks that show poor performance. Even Rails... I love RoR syntactically but it is a slow ass bitch when compared to other frameworks/languages! It is, IMO, the most elegant syntax on the planet and I love Ruby for it's pure OO driven syntax however... it's slooooow. RoR heads will argue that caching allows RoR apps to stay on par... sure but that doesn't leave any room to catch up with other languages when they use caching as well!

Right now the largest limiting factor is storage, specifically, relational storage. That's why NoSQL is so hot right now... When you start to take into account large scalability + social features (which require much more responsive times and larger data sets) it's no wonder everything is moving towards NoSQL!

PHP is a fantastic language and anyone that says otherwise is just ridding the elitist short bus. I am proficient in a LOT of different languages yet still prefer to write _most_ web apps in PHP for a variety of different reasons. Not the least of which is speed...

I will say though that your posts about the best developers being able to cherry pick the best and most profitable opportunities are absolutely correct! You definitely have a firm grasp on where most of the top developers sit as well as a variety of other topics, I just had a bone to pick with the whole ripping on PHP thing :)

You just said the Ruby syntax is better than PHP but it is slow. But then you say speed doesn't make a difference. I agree with you on both counts and that is what I am saying too.

My main gripe with PHP is not its execution speed. That doesn't really matter much as far as practicality is concerned. It is developer productivity. PHP feels like I'm programming in assembly language compared to other languages. It's so tedious that it takes away from the actual task at hand.

As an aside, here's a benchmark of various programming languages. Notice that PHP is at the bottom. Even more feature rich languages run faster. Notice that Ruby 1.9 is faster than PHP.

RoR has a lot of overhead but the latest version of Ruby is actually faster than PHP language to language. Check the queries RoR generates, it sometimes isn't the most efficient and you have to manually override its defaults.

But you are right, the language speed doesn't matter much, the database is typically the bottleneck. And caching makes page render times pretty much pointless.

Some of my gripes about PHP are the following:

1) Limit scope control
You can't have nested lexical scopes, it doesn't support any type of coroutines or continuations. It doesn't support dynamic scope either. If you want to automate certain things you can't put them in functions because that function can't operate in the scope that it is was executed in. So you end up having to pass variables in and out which just adds a bunch of overhead that makes it not worth even bothering. You also can't bind scope directly either.

2) No support for macros or extending the syntax of the language

3) Poor support for functional programming
arr [ sq ] map
or
arr.map &:sq

is much easier and more readable than

$new_arr = array(); foreach ($arr as $x) $new_arr[] = sq($x);
or
$new_arr = array_map(function($x) { return sq($x); }, $arr);

Ewww.

4) Poor support for meta programming
You can't write code that writes code. At least not unless you want to write a parser and compiler in PHP that uses another custom DSL. Granted there is create_function() but that is not really meta programming. That is passive code generation.
Read http://letoverlambda.com/ and http://pragprog.com/titles/ppmetr/metaprogramming-ruby to get a better idea about meta programming. The Factor programming language is probably the best at meta programming but it isn't really a mainstream language.

5) Extremely limited object model when compared to Smalltalk, Ruby, CLOS, or even Javascript. Plus the syntax sucks.

6) Inconsistent API function naming, is it $needle, $haystack or $haystack, $needle?
Is it module_fooBar, foobar, FooBar, module_foo_bar, ModuleFooBar, etc?

7) Limited architecture
Each page load starts executing a completely new environment. There is no server or application context. You can't start up the server and run a bunch of initialization code and THEN handle connections. Each connection starts fresh and you has to run the entire code again for each page load.

8) Limited syntax
Why can't I do funcThatReturnsArray()[5]? Instead I have to do:
$stupid_temp = funcThatReturnsArray()
$stupid_temp[5]

same goes for funcThatReturnsClass()->theFunc()

9) No ||= operator
Instead I have to do $foo = isset($foo) ? $foo : 5; instead of foo ||= 5

Here's a funny story that has been around for a while that hits home for me.
Quote:

As I was walking down the street the other day, I noticed a man working on his house. He seemed to be having a lot of trouble. As I came closer, I saw that he was trying to pound a nail into a board by a window --- with his FOREHEAD! He seemed to be in a great deal of pain. This made me feel very bad, watching him suffer so much just to fix his window pane. I thought, "Here is an opportunity to make someone very happy simply by showing him a better way to do things." Seeing him happy would make me happy too. So I said, "Excuse me sir, there is a better way to do that."

He stopped pounding his head on the nail and with blood streaming down his face said, "What?" I said, "There is a better way to pound that nail. You can use a hammer."

He said, "What?"

I said "A hammer. It's a heavy piece of metal on a stick. You can use it to pound the nail. It's faster and it doesn't hurt when you use it."

"A hammer, huh?"

"That's right. If you get one I can show you how to use it and you'll be amazed how much easier it will make your job."

Somewhat bewildered he said, "I think I have seen hammers, but I thought they were just toys for kids."

"Well, I suppose kids could play with hammers, but I think what you saw were brightly colored plastic hammers. They look a bit like real hammers, but they are much cheaper and don't really do anything," I explained.

"Oh," he said. Then went on, "But hammers are more expensive than using my forehead. I don't want to spend the money for a hammer."

Now somewhat frustrated I said, "But in the long run the hammer would pay for itself because you would spend more time pounding nails and less time treating head wounds."

"Oh," he said. "But I can't do as much with a hammer as I can with my forehead," he said with conviction.

Exasperated, I went on. "Well, I'm not quite sure what else you've been using your forehead for, but hammers are marvelously useful tools. You can pound nails, pull nails, pry apart boards. In fact every day people like you seem to be finding new ways to use hammers. And I'm sure a hammer would do all these things much better than your forehead."

"But why should I start using a hammer? All my friends pound nails with their foreheads too. If there were a better way to do it I'm sure one of them would have told me," he countered.

Now he had caught me off guard. "Perhaps they are all thinking the same thing," I suggested. "You could be the first one to discover this new way to do things," I said with enthusiasm.

With a skeptical look in his bloodstained eye he said,"Look, some of my friends are professional carpenters. You can't tell me they don't know the best way to pound nails."

"Well, even professionals become set in their ways and resist change." Then in a frustrated yell I continued, "I mean, come on! You can't just sit there and try to convince me that using your forehead to pound nails is better than using a hammer!"

Now quite angry he yelled back, "Hey listen buddy, I've been pounding nails with my forehead for many years now. Sure, it was painful at first but now it's second nature to me. Besides, all my friends do it this way and the only people I've ever seen using hammers were little kids. So take your stupid little children's toys and get the hell off my property!"

Stunned, I started to step back. I nearly tripped over a large box of head bandages. I noticed a very expensive price tag on the box and a blue company logo on the price tag. I had seen all I needed to see. This man had somehow been brainwashed, probably by the expensive bandage company, and was beyond help. Hell, let him bleed, I thought. People like that deserve to bleed to death. I walked along, happy that I owned not one but three hammers at home. I used them every day at school and I use them now every day at work and I love them. A sharp pain hit my stomach as I recalled the days before I used hammers, but I reconciled myself with the thought that tonight at the hammer users club meeting I could talk to all my friends about their hammers. We will make jokes about all the idiots we know that don't have hammers and discuss whether we should spend all of our money buying the fancy new hammers that just came out. Then when I get home, like every night, I will sit up and use one of my hammers until very late when I finally fall asleep. In the morning I will wake up ready to go out into the world proclaiming to all non-hammer users how they too could become an expert hammer user like me.

grumpy 01-06-2011 06:42 PM

You use The language that fits the needs. I use mostly php for webdevelopment and i havent had any problem witch i couldnt solve with php. Choose the right softwarevfor THE job.

Peace 01-06-2011 07:38 PM

Hi I know you hit my ICQ. But i m traveling now. Would be best to speak on e-mail.
Can you connect via [email protected]

we have ticketing system and you can communicate with coder directly.

carzygirls 01-07-2011 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by punker barbie (Post 17825414)
just hit you up on icq

ty... :thumbsup

CamsMaster 01-08-2011 03:30 AM

On my point of view..... Yes... A good an loyal one...is fucking hard to find


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