So basically what I get from all this... rich people are greedy and only care about the betterment of themselves, and fuck everyone else...

Sounds just like the government to me.

And let's stop bullshitting for a few minutes... those of you griping about having to pay higher taxes, bitching about how it's unfair.. blah blah...

What about the guy who actually works his ass off 80 hours a week and barely makes enough to get by? The difference is, most of the rich are either celebrities, or thieves. I doubt very few rich people got to where they are by "playing fair" and being honest.

So let me ask you.. how is it fair that those who actually work for a living end up losing everything because the rich got too greedy? How is it fair for the vast majority of you who are rich to go through your whole lives/careers cheating the system, cutting every corner you can and screwing over everyone you possibly could in order to line your pockets with more money.

Very ironic how you people talk about what's fair...

Warren Buffet...a multi...multi billionaire once stated that he pays less in taxes than his $90,000 per year personal secretary does. When billionaire Howard Hughes was alive he paid taxes on $50,000 per year...which is what he declared as his annual income.

Loop holes for the wealthy are clearly in abundance.

But they'd post here and have you believe they're actually paying so much more taxes than everyone else...

Which leads me to believe that no one crying about how unfair it is to be rich, aren't actually rich.. because if they were, they wouldn't be crying here about how unfair their tax bracket is...

Essentially we have both sides are right and this is what is wrong with the US tax code.

Besides the primary means for funding government obligations, the tax code has become a social engineering experiment by the legislative branch of the government. The code is unfair mainly to the middle class who are not rich enough to take advantage of the elitist loopholes added for the very wealthy by the very wealthy, and not poor enough to suckle the government teet.

If fairness were ever a concern for the tax code, a flat tax over a certain threshold of income with no loopholes would be the most simple way to archive fairness. But no one is interested in a fair tax code.

Sure, a couple megamillionaire's/billionaires business owners, CEOs, and high-level executives know how to exploit the system and do so. This justifies charging everyone above $250k a much higher rate? Sure, $250k is quite good money, but it's not rich status either. I say $250k because that's the number Congress originally wanted to target.

Perhaps we should ask Warren Buffett, and the others, to stop raping the system they complain about?

If I recall correctly, and I'm sure that somebody can correct me, Warren Buffett takes his income from capital gains taxes, which is significantly less than standard taxes. A married couple making $150k each a year cannot do the same if they are making that money as a salary. I am betting that Mr. Buffett's middle level executives that take six-figure salaries pay more than Mr. Buffett's secretary in taxes.

Mr. Buffett can stop raping whenever he wants. Until then, he just sounds like a hypocritical sound byte.

I keep hearing this argument that we should be taxing the rich because they all avoid taxes anyway. If that were the case, what would an increase in taxes even do? It seems to be that the real solution should be targeting those that avoid the taxes instead of raising the taxes on those that don't. Along the same line of thinking, there are also a lot of people that exploit welfare and the other forms of government assistance... should we drop all of these programs due to the ones that exploit the system? I certainly don't think so, a lot of people really need and deserve that help, let's find a way to root out the ones that don't. The counter argument to that is... "that would be too hard."

In both scenarios, seems like corruption and fraud is the issue. I don't see how punishing those that follow the rules solves the problem.

the gap between rich and poor is not the governments issue nor should it be fixed by taking from the successful and pretending to help the poor with it

the funny thing about this statement is that its not true.

you should spend less time reading science fiction.

ah yes, the lament of the unaccomplished, uneducated, loser.

all of your betters cheated their way past you.:1orglaugh

wow! well I did ask for the idiot trolls to show up in this thread.
I'm not disappointed.
pretending the loopholes of 30yrs ago are here today is typical thinking from someone in the lowest bracket.
as far as buffet goes, he paid 17% on $46mil (or $7,820,000)
for the same services his secretary paid (if you believe his lie that she paid 30% on $60k) $18,000 for.

warren is an old liar and not a very good one.

When the tax cuts...during President Bush's administration...were first put in place...Warren Buffet stated that in the first year of the cuts it would put $300,000,000 million dollars in his pocket and that he would not create a single job with the additional $300,000,000 million.

From the end of the Second World War until President Kennedy became President...the tax rate on the wealthy was 92% and it was during these same years that the biggest growth in our economy...housing boom and middle class growth took place...and the wealthy just kept getting more and more wealthy.

What does any of this have to do with the couple that is making $250k paying more taxes, the mega-billionaire exploiting loopholes that he complains about, and the rationale behind raising taxes on those that, in "common knowledge", avoid taxes anyway?

One either believes in a progressive tax rate or one doesn't. It sounds as if you don't. The income tax rates have gone down every administration since and including President Kennedy's administration. As I stated when he first became President the tax on the wealthy was 92% and it was during the years from the end of the Second World War to his Presidency that the country experienced its largest economical growth and the wealthy during those years just became more and more wealthy even with a 92% tax rate.

Now they complain...as I am sure they did during those years...when their tax rate is at 35 or 36% and would have gone back up to 39% or so.

I primarily pay capital gains taxes these days but during the years when I was paying substantial amounts on income tax...in the highest bracket...I never found it to be a problem and did not...and do not complain about paying taxes. I do sometimes...even often times...complain to my congressman about the way tax monies are spent.

I do not have a problem with progressive tax...though I think there are better ways to tax then our current system.

I'm sure you'll provide a link to this.

dear simpleton, this was during the howard hughes loophole days you want to make hay over. those loopholes no longer exist.

you speak about things you have no understanding of.

I guess all I'm learning from this thread is that apparently 12clicks needs a better accountant because obviously he isn't exploiting all of the loopholes that other GFYers are. Can anyone provide references to good accountants that make taxes disappear?

you've never paid the top rate, pathfinder. is there no end to your pretending to be something you're not?

you also have no understanding of the difference between 92% with a million loopholes and 39% with very few loopholes.

I told every accountant that I ever had not to get creative...I even fired a very good friend of mind that I once hired as my accountant...because he got creative and caused me to be audited and I had to pay additional tax. It was not having to pay the additional tax that caused me to fire him...it was because against my orders he did get creative. Being a patriot I did not and do not mind paying taxes.

BTW...I not longer use an accountant as when I sold off all of my businesses I invested all of the money into the market...and I just roll everything over.

I live off of around $40,000 per year non taxable income...which is way more than I need so I have a substantial bank account.



As for 12clicks...he is just an ignorant person.

hahaha. sure punk.

you already tried mainstream and failed... :1orglaugh





.

yeah, I failed. :1orglaugh

what is it you do again?:1orglaugh

and he gets bigger deductions that come back to him that the little guy as well.

please people dont fool your selves when someone with Millions donates millions. its just for the break and the return.

That doesn?t make sense. Since you make $40k and pay $5k so net is $35K while you make $1mil to pay $300k and net is $700k. $300k are taxes that goes to failing entitlements, that?s money that could be spent on office building lease for a year and employees. But instead the government takes the money hires government workers who become unionized and never leave the payroll and we have just added to a larger budget for the next 25 to 35 years. Besides a business man already spends money to make that million, its called over head and expenses. I dont make a million a year but I would like to someday and I hate that people think successful people need to pay a higher rate because they have the money. That sends jobs away from the USA. Turns California from the 5th largest economy in the world to 9th.

Get paid more, get taxed more. After all the "write offs" the rich guys use, it's pretty fair. :pimp

It's not money that could be spent on an office building! Its personal income! It is money that he earned as a salary, or whatever other method, it's not business gross. Even if it was business income, he could spend that $300,000 and then would be paying taxes on the $700,000 which would be quite a bit less.

This is personal income that would be spent on houses, vehicles, vacations, investing in the stock market, cosmetic surgery LOL, stuff like that.

i work at mcdonalds just like you say.... :1orglaugh




.

uh, no. actually Sly, if an LLC or S corp carries unspent money over the jan 1 time line, its taxed as if it were income. to keep it simple, if the company has profits of say 10 million dollars and they'd like to leave it in the bank for a rainy day or for expansion projects in the following year, that $10mil turns into $7mil after taxes. no way around it. If you have an $8mil need in the following year, fuck you. you're out of luck even though you originally had $10mil

thats very simplistic yet accurate.

Ah true, I was thinking more on the lines of an individual making $1M salary, not a company's actual earnings.

Feel free to not pay your taxes out of protest. The system is set up for that.

the funny thing about making baseless responses is that the response is baseless

ok tax all people with same fucking rate, lets burst the shit out of tax!

Well holy shit, lets be honest would be a bad thing if an entire costruction crew was paid for the work they did on a rich guys house or would be bad if the realestate agent got a comission. Or the hotel staff that make extra money from tips. How about that salesman who sold a car he needs the income or does he make too much money and doesnt need the sale. Do we not need investors in the economy. Why is it funny to get cosmetic surgery if you are rich? Only poor strippers or pornstars can get surgery they cant afford?

or do it your way and make so little that your tax payment *seems* to be a protest.

lol, why dont you propose a new tax system or something helpful?

Hey, did you know that frivolous luxury spending is on the increase? Hows the toast points and caviar today? I only eat mine while wearing some dead animal with my feet propped up on a servant.

You don't really have the slightest clue as to what's happening before your very eyes, do you? The US middle class is being systematically wiped out, and you're all for it. Over the last several decades, it has continuously shrunk, and right now about 90% of the wealth is owned by 8% of the people. And guess where your bread & butter comes from? That's right, the middle the class. They're the people who keep money flowing into your bank account.

You're a hard-core conservative, and are all for less government, lower taxes, plus cut the spending, right? Take a wild guess as to where that's going to lead to. Keep taxes low for the rich, plus cut spending, which will have to come from somewhere (social security, Medicare, unemployment, VA, whatever).

Continue pushing that agenda, and you're going to end up with a country that has rich elites, a bunch of slaves, and a bunch of homeless. That's it though, and that's what your country will consist of. And guess what? You're not a rich elite, and there won't be anyone around with enough money to buy your porn anymore, so you'll be shit out of luck too.

poor deluded child.
I'm for lower taxes for everyone.
oh, and don't believe the hype. the middle class is not shrinking. the governmental class warfare artists are just redrawing the lines to make it seem so.

alert the media :1orglaugh:1orglaugh

It sure sucks that all the long term capital investments the wealthy have only get taxed at 15% (capital gains).

So you are saying profits shouldn't be taxed?

richard, did you know that here in america nearly 40 percent of all poor households actu ally own their own homes. On average, this is a three-bedroom house with one-and-a-half baths, a garage, and a porch or patio.

Eighty-four percent of poor households have air conditioning.

Nearly two-thirds of the poor have cable or satellite TV.

Only 6 percent of poor households are over crowded; two-thirds have more than two rooms per person.

The typical poor American has as much or more living space than the average individual living in most European countries. (These comparisons are to the average citizens in foreign countries, not to those classified as poor.)

Nearly three-quarters of poor households own a car; 31 percent own two or more cars.

Ninety-eight percent of poor households have a color television; two-thirds own two or more color televisions.

Eighty-two percent own microwave ovens; 67 percent have a DVD player; 73 percent have a VCR; 47 percent have a computer.

The average intake of protein, vitamins, and minerals by poor children is indistinguishable from that of children in the upper middle class.

so you see _richard_ our poor live better than YOU do. Imagine how much better our middle class lives than you.:thumbsup

this is an entirely different subject but thats exactly what I'm saying. its an economy killer.
when the profits trickle down to an actual person, they get taxed. so NO ONE profits without being taxed.
this idiot mindset that a corporation should somehow be treated like a live person and taxed, is just another governmental money grab.
it hurts economic growth and stifles job growth.

own eh? really.

Ummm, they're not. That's why corporations and personal individuals fill out different income tax returns.

sucks for who?
all but the dumbest Americans have retirement accounts and investments. they benefit from the 15% cap gains rate.
once you're older, you'll have a better understanding of how it works.

hahahaha.

tell me son, how does a corporation fill out a tax return? is it the same way they drive a car?
:1orglaugh

you mean poor? Why should a guy running a hedge fund make $200mn and just be taxed at the 15% rate.

I have no problem with lowering some taxes, but they need to close the loopholes to actually reflect the real tax rate. Until then it needs to go up

Typical 12clicks and his usual boring insults, not even creative enough to come up with new insults. Let me guess, you will respond by saying that all us "children" "bottom rungers" etc are not worth a creative response. Well you continue to respond to us "losers" don't you. I love how you call everyone else trolls, you are above and beyond the biggest troll in the history of GFY.
Ahh 12clicks the most predictable person on this board. Most often you resort to calling names is because they have no valid argument left. One of the biggest flaws in in people like yourself as a whole is that you will argue to the death something that you believe even if all the evidence points to you being wrong. Emotion takes over and begins to dictate your actions since facts will no longer support your argument and next thing you know your resorting to insults.

Huh? You've never incorporated a company before, have you?

and here we're back to the disconnect.

if the guy made $200mil and paid 15% he paid THIRTY MILLION DOLLARS for the same services you paid $10k for

he's paying more than his far share and more than you will in your lifetime but somehow, thats not enough for you.

don't envy your betters, become them

Oh no is that only $700,000 dollars the millionaire is left with?

The same $700,000 that it would take the guy making $40,000 a year 17 and a half years to make?

Cry me a fucking river. You want to play in the system then you pay for the system it's as simple as that. Don't like it? TOUGH SHIT. Just because you have money doesn't mean everything should be catered to you.

Although I do love watching 12clicks get owned over, and over and over and....

It is apparent that you do not like a progressive tax rate but that has been and still is our tax system...and until...if ever...it is changed you can cry about it all you want to...but you also will have to live with it.

I think there are better ways to tax...but it does please me to hear your constant whining about having to pay into a progressive system.

and here's an example of a bottom runger who'll never amount to anything and never understand why.

He'll always believe he's owed something he's not smart enough to achieve.

guess what, loser. you boy caved. the tax cuts will be extended for everyone including your betters.:thumbsup

pathfinder, as it pleases me to know that your life is so pathetic that you stoop to pretending to die on a chat board and return as your friend "the king":1orglaugh