have webmaster conventions become a huge waiste of time and $$ - GoFuckYourself.com

Wiseman · 01-13-2003, 10:52 PM

That is my question to everyone out there??
It seems that over the last 3 yrs since my first convention at IA2000 that there has been a steady down fall to the conventions........
What does everyone else think??
Do you think it is just a way to waiste money or do you feel that you actually get your $$$ worth from them?

I mean if a company brings 4 people to a show with airfare and rooms and food it costs a min of $ 10,000.
DO you feel you get $10000 worth of rev. from it?........ And that is at a minimum..........

Validus · 01-13-2003, 10:55 PM

Japan 4? Jamaica? Ashashashish? ? Negrill?

heqdvd · 01-13-2003, 10:55 PM

Isn't it a social network thing, I don't think the people who have the $$$ for booths (I didn't have one there) and such care too much about the converstions...

from the pics I see it seems like drinking was the primary activity

FlyingIguana · 01-13-2003, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by THE WISEMAN
That is my question to everyone out there??
It seems that over the last 3 yrs since my first convention at IA2000 that there has been a steady down fall to the conventions........
What does everyone else think??
Do you think it is just a way to waiste money or do you feel that you actually get your $$$ worth from them?

I mean if a company brings 4 people to a show with airfare and rooms and food it costs a min of $ 10,000.
DO you feel you get $10000 worth of rev. from it?........ And that is at a minimum..........

if the 4 people you bring to the show are worth their salary, yes.

heqdvd · 01-13-2003, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Validus
Japan 4? Jamaica? Ashashashish? ? Negrill?

You need to look up the words "variety" in your mongrel dictionary....

MarcWomack · 01-13-2003, 11:01 PM

It depends on how you approach it. We certainly took too many people and blew way too much money our first couple of InterNext's. But this last one we only took three people (yes we didn't bring Paul, and we realize he's the only one of us that people like so we'll bring him next time). We Priceline.com'd the tickets and we split a room. We didn't blow tons of money at the strip bars and we didn't party like rock stars. That made the trip profitable in two ways. I spent more time meeting with people than I have at any show. I know the concept of financial planning and moderation isn't very popular, but it pays off.

bauhaus · 01-13-2003, 11:01 PM

No doubt...I just met some slimy gay duo?

A skinny white dude- Hoops or something like that, and his boy-toy WiseGuy

They were sweet holding hands and talking sweet things about everyone else at the show...but other than that not sure if it was worth the dough....$10k for 4 people is definitely a conservative estimate.

I am interested to see what people think? if it was worth the bling or not?

I personally think its good for smaller guys to go and make some decent contacts, cause one good deal will make $10k easy....for sponsors its just to show your face and see old friends, and hopefully make enough new deals to cover the costs of the show.

Damon · 01-13-2003, 11:01 PM

I would have to say that we do get our money's worth out of the show. Every time we go down, we meet at least one person that can bring us enough business to justify the expenses.
The shows have certainly gotten alot tamer, with fewer exhibitors, however.
Besides.... it gives me a chance to hang around with Wiseman for just long enough to realize why I didn't invite him to come visit since the last show.

MandyD · 01-13-2003, 11:02 PM

Validus · 01-13-2003, 11:05 PM

Japan 4?

Wiseman · 01-13-2003, 11:05 PM

HAHAHHA Tim you fag!!! Damon!! I cant sya the same about you since I watched you shoot Tim down multiple times!!! But thatnks for the imput!

Mr.Fiction · 01-13-2003, 11:05 PM

Become?

MarkTiarra · 01-13-2003, 11:08 PM

Most of the larger exhibitioners there have been saying that they don't recoup the investment of the shows directly. Then again do you think Budweiser recoups from their commercials directly anymore? It's not like anyone needs to be told Bud exists at this point.

So I'm guessing:

a) The real value is intangible.
b) If you are new, it is still an opp to get people to know you and know you have a serious business.

Also I heard two different well respected people on seperate occasions astutely expressing the concern that the paranoid nature of webmasters would lead them to think a big company was having financial trouble or something if they didn't continue to exhibit.

heqdvd · 01-13-2003, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MarkTiarra

Also I heard two different well respected people on seperate occasions astutely expressing the concern that the paranoid nature of webmasters would lead them to think a big company was having financial trouble or something if they didn't continue to exhibit.

Can you elaborate? You heard people in Vegas say this?

FlyingIguana · 01-13-2003, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by heqdvd

Can you elaborate? You heard people in Vegas say this?

you see people say it right here on gfy

Poppy · 01-14-2003, 12:00 AM

Wiseman,

I really think it depends on the company and what their product or service is that they are offering. However, I will go out on a limb and say that most companies probably don't get an ROI.

Internext is a way to let your cohorts know that your business is alive and hopefully well. It's a great way to network and resolidify relationships with others. A branding tool in my opinion. Companies will gain new business, but on your example I do not think one will get an ROI.

My 2 cents.

Tim...you fag...j/k Good to see you bro!

Amputate Your Head · 01-14-2003, 12:07 AM

I sort of like to maintain the casino philosophy:

Make a guy feel like a nobody and a loser... he'll tell two or three people. But make a guy feel like a winner, like your friend, and welcome.... he'll tell 400.

I don't think you can really break down technical 'recoup' estimates in terms of extra clicks or something like that..... it's more about presentation. That goes for the guys that have the booths as well as the individual webmaster.

Same as the Budweiser thing somebody said.... who the hell doesn;t know about Bud by now..... it's all about presentation.

candyflip · 01-14-2003, 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MarkTiarra
Also I heard two different well respected people on seperate occasions astutely expressing the concern that the paranoid nature of webmasters would lead them to think a big company was having financial trouble or something if they didn't continue to exhibit.

This is also true in any industry that has conventions. When you get to that point, it's big business and that's what you're trying to show. And in most cases...if someone doesn't exhibit, they usually are having financial difficulties or didn't pay their bill.

MarkTiarra · 01-14-2003, 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by heqdvd

Can you elaborate? You heard people in Vegas say this?

Not sure what's to elaborate. I don't directly quote people without permission, of course, but I basically thought it interesting that two "big players" were saying the same thing at different times. Essentially the point was that you'd have all these webmasters saying that Company X was in financial trouble or something if they suddenly stopped exhibiting.

Let's face it, the rumour mill in this business is like a high school cafeteria.

SteveLightspeed · 01-14-2003, 12:18 AM

Shit, we can't even SPELL ROI...

The value of the shows for us is intangible. Goodwill goes a long way, how do you put a price on product trust and brand name recognition?

My philosophy of doing the conventions and events (and we did them ALL last year) is simple: The conventions are where we make friends with the people we will do business with in the future.

I think the conventions are also a good place to reward your employees, affiliates, and business partners. If you've done your job right the rest of the year, there is usually plenty of good fortune to celebrate.

Steve Lightspeed

baddog · 01-14-2003, 12:23 AM

a waste of time and money? hell no. invaluable. if a waste of time and money to you, you are doing something wrong or else went in there with different expectations than I did for sure.

Not even a week has gone by, and it has already paid for itself.

NETbilling · 01-14-2003, 12:29 AM

WISEMAN,

1st of all.... Your shaved head kicks ass!

I think Poppy (great hanging with you bro) summed it up.
We all make new relationships and seal some deals at the show. For us it is customer appreciation (the reason we sponsor Player's balls, buy drinks, and hand out fine cigars), and the chance to talk with the poeple we chat with online and on the phone all year. We have a conservative 10x20 booth. Our employees share rooms, and we don't pack 15 employees in our booth just so it will look "busy".

Personally, I like to go just to get out of the office for a few days without calling it a vacation.

Mexico anyone?

Mitch

TheDoc · 01-14-2003, 12:35 AM

The show was great for us, we made back our investment and are already working on the profits from the show.

Doesnt mean that we will do a booth every show though. We are thinking of only doing a booth only for the Jan shows.

I have heard people talk about others that did not do a booth one time, such as max cash and everyone thought they were going under or some stupid shit..

Kimmykim · 01-14-2003, 12:43 AM

Ryan I'd have paid ALL of y'alls airfare if need be to see Hooper going off on the staff at the sushi place. That and of course the new guy drinking all those sake shots while you guys had empty glasses. ;)

Poppy -- I sent you email the other day, let me know if you didnt get it --

Poppy · 01-14-2003, 04:12 PM

Good points by all.

Mitch, great hanging w/ you and the Netbilling crew in the suite at the Players Ball.

Kk, you got mail.

LA Mike · 01-14-2003, 06:11 PM

Whats a poppy?

hahaha

Poppy · 01-14-2003, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by LAMike
Whats a poppy?

hahaha

This little brown dude that your employee calls "Tiny Dancer". He sometimes climbs on walls, but can't make it to the top so he depends on your brother Rob to ring the muthafuggin bell...hahaha What up Mike. Good seeing you in Vegas bro.

McAttack · 01-14-2003, 10:16 PM

Well, it's pretyt much been said, but I bring in a bit of a different perspective, since I came from the High Tech gaming industry, and I was there during it's peak.

In the gaming industry, there's many shows, but the big boy is E3. E3 is THE show of the year. You HAVE to be there if you're in the industry. Companies plan 12 months ahead for this show, the booths are HUGE. Companies try to out do each other, Activision had a 12ft half pipe with Pro Skaters doing shows all day long, all this stuff.

To answer your question, it depends on what your position is. As a small guy, independant, or just a visitor/non-exhibitor, this is invaluable. You have the PRIME spot in a tradeshow. You go around, you are mobile and can compare everything that's going on.

As an exhibitor, it can be hard. If you've exhibited once, you need to be there every year. It's like print advertising. You can't make a half assed attempt at it. It's a commitment. If you start exhibiting and the next year you decide you dont' want to spend 25k on a booth, and another 5k on giveaways, or whatever your expenses are (assuming you're using a small booth), then people WILL assume that it's a cost cutting effort.

The big spending killed the high tech industry, especially gaming, and if people in this biz aren't careful about how they spend, they might suffer the same faith. As fun as it is to look like the big hero and pick up the tab for all the big bills, it will normally catch up to you. You have to think if it's a cost-effective move.

I say set yourself a certain budget for "branding" and spend that. If you wish to spend it by throwing a huge party and have everyone talk about you on GFY, then great. if you rather spend it on blitzing your banner everywhere on paid spots throughout the year, that's good too.

Crow · 01-14-2003, 10:25 PM

It's always been a show to make what you want from it. Some go just to party and see the crazyness and what not. Some go to network and talk business ops. There is a lot of business to be had at the Internext shows and I think the people that have been going to every show for years go there mostly for business. After all the eye candy and parties are fun and all but get old after awhile. It's all a matter of wether you want to stay out all night going crazy and sleep untill the last hour of the show each day or pace yourself and start putting faces to names, talking about potential business and what not. My

Paul Markham · 01-14-2003, 10:29 PM

I think it depends what you are selling and how you approach people. I've done the last two Internext and always sold more than the trip cost me. Plus those guys are still buying.

What are you selling, I see othere peoples banners in your sig?

JFK · 01-14-2003, 11:18 PM

It is always what you make of it ! Personally I think its great meeting people one on one. It has formed the basis of many business relations for us in several of our ventures.

SleazyDream · 01-14-2003, 11:34 PM

The inspiration alone that the poeple at the shows give me is enough to warrent the costs.

I have NEVER regretted going to a show or throwing a TGP party, it's ALWAYS good business to meet in person the people who you do business with day in and day out.

01-13-2003, 10:52 PM	#1
Wiseman Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 2,990	have webmaster conventions become a huge waiste of time and $$ That is my question to everyone out there?? It seems that over the last 3 yrs since my first convention at IA2000 that there has been a steady down fall to the conventions........ What does everyone else think?? Do you think it is just a way to waiste money or do you feel that you actually get your $$$ worth from them? I mean if a company brings 4 people to a show with airfare and rooms and food it costs a min of $ 10,000. DO you feel you get $10000 worth of rev. from it?........ And that is at a minimum.......... __________________ []E-mail: [email protected][]ICQ: 109726012[*]AIM: QbWiseman

01-13-2003, 10:55 PM	#3
heqdvd Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Harlem - NYC Posts: 153	Isn't it a social network thing, I don't think the people who have the $$$ for booths (I didn't have one there) and such care too much about the converstions... from the pics I see it seems like drinking was the primary activity __________________ SIG TOO BIG! Maximum 120x60 button and no more than 3 text lines of DEFAULT SIZE and COLOR. Unless your sig is for a GFY top banner sponsor, then you may use a 624x80 instead of a 120x60.

01-13-2003, 11:01 PM	#6
MarcWomack Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2002 Location: Manila, Philippines Posts: 529	It depends on how you approach it. We certainly took too many people and blew way too much money our first couple of InterNext's. But this last one we only took three people (yes we didn't bring Paul, and we realize he's the only one of us that people like so we'll bring him next time). We Priceline.com'd the tickets and we split a room. We didn't blow tons of money at the strip bars and we didn't party like rock stars. That made the trip profitable in two ways. I spent more time meeting with people than I have at any show. I know the concept of financial planning and moderation isn't very popular, but it pays off. __________________ Regards, MarcWomack.com Internet Advertising & Outsourcing Consultant

01-13-2003, 11:01 PM	#7
bauhaus Confirmed User Join Date: May 2001 Location: Costa Rica Posts: 773	No doubt...I just met some slimy gay duo? A skinny white dude- Hoops or something like that, and his boy-toy WiseGuy They were sweet holding hands and talking sweet things about everyone else at the show...but other than that not sure if it was worth the dough....$10k for 4 people is definitely a conservative estimate. I am interested to see what people think? if it was worth the bling or not? I personally think its good for smaller guys to go and make some decent contacts, cause one good deal will make $10k easy....for sponsors its just to show your face and see old friends, and hopefully make enough new deals to cover the costs of the show. __________________ Insane, Color and Instant Sensation REalize the potential of dynamic coded features all in real time Vivid Php Code This is the reality of Outsoursouring SKype HolyBauhaus Deep, Deep in the Tropical Dry Rainforest.

01-13-2003, 11:01 PM	#8
Damon Registered User Join Date: May 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 4	I would have to say that we do get our money's worth out of the show. Every time we go down, we meet at least one person that can bring us enough business to justify the expenses. The shows have certainly gotten alot tamer, with fewer exhibitors, however. Besides.... it gives me a chance to hang around with Wiseman for just long enough to realize why I didn't invite him to come visit since the last show. __________________ <a href="http://www.largecash.com/">Largecash.com</a>

01-13-2003, 10:55 PM	#2
Validus Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Calgary, Canada Posts: 4,012	Japan 4? Jamaica? Ashashashish? ? Negrill?

01-13-2003, 11:02 PM	#9
MandyD Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 477	__________________ Babes Links

01-13-2003, 11:05 PM	#10
Validus Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Calgary, Canada Posts: 4,012	Japan 4?

01-13-2003, 11:05 PM	#12
Mr.Fiction Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Free Speech Land Posts: 9,484	Become?

01-13-2003, 11:08 PM	#13
MarkTiarra Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: NJ Posts: 3,833	Most of the larger exhibitioners there have been saying that they don't recoup the investment of the shows directly. Then again do you think Budweiser recoups from their commercials directly anymore? It's not like anyone needs to be told Bud exists at this point. So I'm guessing: a) The real value is intangible. b) If you are new, it is still an opp to get people to know you and know you have a serious business. Also I heard two different well respected people on seperate occasions astutely expressing the concern that the paranoid nature of webmasters would lead them to think a big company was having financial trouble or something if they didn't continue to exhibit. __________________ Retired Pornosticator Last edited by MarkTiarra; 01-13-2003 at 11:10 PM..

01-14-2003, 12:00 AM	#16
Poppy Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: O H I O Posts: 6,254	Wiseman, I really think it depends on the company and what their product or service is that they are offering. However, I will go out on a limb and say that most companies probably don't get an ROI. Internext is a way to let your cohorts know that your business is alive and hopefully well. It's a great way to network and resolidify relationships with others. A branding tool in my opinion. Companies will gain new business, but on your example I do not think one will get an ROI. My 2 cents. Tim...you fag...j/k Good to see you bro! __________________ VP Sales, Peak5Payments [email protected] Skype: consultpoppy In adult since 98'

01-14-2003, 12:07 AM	#17
Amputate Your Head There can be only one Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Somewhere else Posts: 39,075	I sort of like to maintain the casino philosophy: Make a guy feel like a nobody and a loser... he'll tell two or three people. But make a guy feel like a winner, like your friend, and welcome.... he'll tell 400. I don't think you can really break down technical 'recoup' estimates in terms of extra clicks or something like that..... it's more about presentation. That goes for the guys that have the booths as well as the individual webmaster. Same as the Budweiser thing somebody said.... who the hell doesn;t know about Bud by now..... it's all about presentation. __________________ SIG TOO BIG

01-14-2003, 12:18 AM	#20
SteveLightspeed Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Lightspeedworld Posts: 7,940	Shit, we can't even SPELL ROI... The value of the shows for us is intangible. Goodwill goes a long way, how do you put a price on product trust and brand name recognition? My philosophy of doing the conventions and events (and we did them ALL last year) is simple: The conventions are where we make friends with the people we will do business with in the future. I think the conventions are also a good place to reward your employees, affiliates, and business partners. If you've done your job right the rest of the year, there is usually plenty of good fortune to celebrate. Steve Lightspeed __________________ Abra-cadabra!

01-14-2003, 12:23 AM	#21
baddog So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: the beach, SoCal Posts: 107,089	a waste of time and money? hell no. invaluable. if a waste of time and money to you, you are doing something wrong or else went in there with different expectations than I did for sure. Not even a week has gone by, and it has already paid for itself.

01-14-2003, 12:29 AM	#22
NETbilling Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Huntington Beach, CA Posts: 8,588	WISEMAN, 1st of all.... Your shaved head kicks ass! I think Poppy (great hanging with you bro) summed it up. We all make new relationships and seal some deals at the show. For us it is customer appreciation (the reason we sponsor Player's balls, buy drinks, and hand out fine cigars), and the chance to talk with the poeple we chat with online and on the phone all year. We have a conservative 10x20 booth. Our employees share rooms, and we don't pack 15 employees in our booth just so it will look "busy". Personally, I like to go just to get out of the office for a few days without calling it a vacation. Mexico anyone? Mitch __________________ Mitch Farber CEO - NETbilling, Inc. Email / Phone: 888-357-8166 / 661-252-2456 Transaction processing & 24/7 call center services with exceptional rates and flexibility, since 1998!

01-14-2003, 12:35 AM	#23
TheDoc Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Currently Incognito Posts: 13,827	The show was great for us, we made back our investment and are already working on the profits from the show. Doesnt mean that we will do a booth every show though. We are thinking of only doing a booth only for the Jan shows. I have heard people talk about others that did not do a booth one time, such as max cash and everyone thought they were going under or some stupid shit.. __________________ ~TheDoc - ICQ7765825 It's all disambiguation

01-14-2003, 12:43 AM	#24
Kimmykim bitchslapping zebras!!!!! Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: In a shack by the beach Posts: 16,015	Ryan I'd have paid ALL of y'alls airfare if need be to see Hooper going off on the staff at the sushi place. That and of course the new guy drinking all those sake shots while you guys had empty glasses. ;) Poppy -- I sent you email the other day, let me know if you didnt get it --

01-14-2003, 04:12 PM	#25
Poppy Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: O H I O Posts: 6,254	Good points by all. Mitch, great hanging w/ you and the Netbilling crew in the suite at the Players Ball. Kk, you got mail. __________________ VP Sales, Peak5Payments [email protected] Skype: consultpoppy In adult since 98'

01-14-2003, 06:11 PM	#26
LA Mike Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 3,056	Whats a poppy? hahaha

01-14-2003, 10:16 PM	#28
McAttack Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Montreal Posts: 625	Well, it's pretyt much been said, but I bring in a bit of a different perspective, since I came from the High Tech gaming industry, and I was there during it's peak. In the gaming industry, there's many shows, but the big boy is E3. E3 is THE show of the year. You HAVE to be there if you're in the industry. Companies plan 12 months ahead for this show, the booths are HUGE. Companies try to out do each other, Activision had a 12ft half pipe with Pro Skaters doing shows all day long, all this stuff. To answer your question, it depends on what your position is. As a small guy, independant, or just a visitor/non-exhibitor, this is invaluable. You have the PRIME spot in a tradeshow. You go around, you are mobile and can compare everything that's going on. As an exhibitor, it can be hard. If you've exhibited once, you need to be there every year. It's like print advertising. You can't make a half assed attempt at it. It's a commitment. If you start exhibiting and the next year you decide you dont' want to spend 25k on a booth, and another 5k on giveaways, or whatever your expenses are (assuming you're using a small booth), then people WILL assume that it's a cost cutting effort. The big spending killed the high tech industry, especially gaming, and if people in this biz aren't careful about how they spend, they might suffer the same faith. As fun as it is to look like the big hero and pick up the tab for all the big bills, it will normally catch up to you. You have to think if it's a cost-effective move. I say set yourself a certain budget for "branding" and spend that. If you wish to spend it by throwing a huge party and have everyone talk about you on GFY, then great. if you rather spend it on blitzing your banner everywhere on paid spots throughout the year, that's good too. __________________ You know Teen Kelly converts like crazy.

01-14-2003, 10:25 PM	#29
Crow Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: PornCity Posts: 238	It's always been a show to make what you want from it. Some go just to party and see the crazyness and what not. Some go to network and talk business ops. There is a lot of business to be had at the Internext shows and I think the people that have been going to every show for years go there mostly for business. After all the eye candy and parties are fun and all but get old after awhile. It's all a matter of wether you want to stay out all night going crazy and sleep untill the last hour of the show each day or pace yourself and start putting faces to names, talking about potential business and what not. My __________________ PornCity.net

01-14-2003, 10:29 PM	#30
Paul Markham Too old to care Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: On the sofa, watching TV or doing my jigsaws. Posts: 52,943	I think it depends what you are selling and how you approach people. I've done the last two Internext and always sold more than the trip cost me. Plus those guys are still buying. What are you selling, I see othere peoples banners in your sig? __________________ Blowout deal. 880 videos, 2,400 image sets, plus many RAW videos. $500. PM me for a deal. Skype Paulmarkham70

01-14-2003, 11:18 PM	#31
JFK FUBAR the ORIGINATOR Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: FUBARLAND Posts: 67,374	It is always what you make of it ! Personally I think its great meeting people one on one. It has formed the basis of many business relations for us in several of our ventures. __________________ FUBAR Webmasters - The FUBAR Times - FUBAR Webmasters Mobile - FUBARTV.XXX For promo opps contact jfk at fubarwebmasters dot com

01-14-2003, 11:34 PM	#32
SleazyDream I'm here for SPORT Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phone # (401) 285-0696 Posts: 41,470	The inspiration alone that the poeple at the shows give me is enough to warrent the costs. I have NEVER regretted going to a show or throwing a TGP party, it's ALWAYS good business to meet in person the people who you do business with day in and day out. __________________ This dog, is dog, a dog, good dog, way dog, to dog, keep dog, an dog, idiot dog, busy dog, for dog, 20 dog, seconds dog! Now read without the word dog.