4 pages of ppl shut out of business by the walmart of pron rofl
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I'm not sure if anyone already posted this or not... but we all know that $1.00 porn sites (paysites) exist, and we all know that PussyCash.com offers $6.00/mo "megasites" and has for quite a while now.
Good luck to those of you that are coming out with cheaper sites, I think that is a good thing.Comment
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sounds good to me
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They can offer a million movies at five CENTS a month. I'll still be charging 24.95 and people will still be paying for it.Comment
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I like your sense of humor.Originally posted by Mr.FictionSomeday someone will take that idea a step further and invent a totally free porn site.
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i could buy a $2 box of pizza at the grocery store but instead i pay $13 for a large pizza from pizza hut
i could drink free water but i buy bottled water at $2/gallon
i could buy store brand cola which tastes just like coca cola for $1.50 but i buy a 12 pack of coca cola for $3.50
i could stay at a motel6 but i stay at a hyatt
i could buy a geo metro but i buy a corvette
i could get free hosting but instead i get a few dedicated servers
i could walk around with sandwich bags on my feat but instead i wear shoes
lol you probably get the idea by now. Of course $1 sites with tons of upsells would be profitable but people are still willing to pay more for the exact same thing.Comment
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Tgps are free......... chatboards-chatrooms too...... groups........p2p
Why give the idiots more cheap shit.Comment
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Originally posted by hydro
hmm good point !Comment
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[QUOTE=LegendaryLars]Here is a thought what if the big content providers tomorrow decided to no longer sell content and only keep it all for themselves and their new $5 sites how many paysites would have next to nothing inside their sites. most of the feds and content are controlled bya few players..QUOTE]
You are late on that one the good content providers are already doing it and as the paysite brings in more money than the content expect a decision to be made on which is the best way to go. Plus with most people drinving down the price of content it will bring that day forward.
The future is not in bringing down the price of membership, but raising the benefits of membership. For $1 a day a paysite provides 20 minutes to 5 hours of "Entertainment" fun with your dick in your hand.
Supply a product that is worth a dollar a day and the member will not care if it's a dollar or 18 cents. What is the more satisfying, $1.00 a day for fresh new good content to jerk of to or $0.18 a day to jerk off to stuff that has been around for years?
The adult net is changing and as more experienced players enter and those alreay in it learn it will change faster. Plus the surfer is no longer a newbie, he's been a member of paysites before he signed up to this months one. He now has a level of expectation, meet that level and he will remain a member for as long as it takes to consume what he likes. He will then move onto another paysite for his pleasures, the belief that he's a one off guy that forgets to cancel is stupid.
Plus comparing a magazine to a paysite is a good idea, however your sums are wrong.
Magazine = 100 pages less 25% of advertising pages = 75 pages of content.
This is around 10 sets consisting on 20 pictures, 5 stories and 3 articles.
Total reading time 5 hours tops. Then it's all "Non Exclusive" content.
5 hours / $5.00 = $1.00 an hour.
Paysite, delivers 1000 sets/videos. Sets have 100 pictures, videos 15 minutes. Total viewing time 200 hours, over 3 months thats $90 for 200 hours. Thats $0.45 cents an hour. This is with a small-medium size site.
The trick is to give him enough content that he wants to look at, not to lower the price. Lowering the price will make him think you only have $5 value in your site.Comment
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Traffic has never been KING. CONVERSION is king.Originally posted by LegendaryLars
All the traffic in the world is useless if you can't convert it, so you have to sell him something, if only an upsell to another site.
As the surfer gets more choices, more educated and better suppliers, those who think throwing enough mud at a wall is the way are going to go the same way the dodo went.Comment
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[QUOTE=charly]Nice thanks for taking the time to write this insightfull post !Originally posted by LegendaryLarsComment
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My argument exactly. However how many have the skills to recognise what is good content and fits the niche they are selling?Originally posted by Dawgy
Problem is people still think the bottom line on content is the price per image/minute. Which is not a reason a surfer buys for.
How many times do I get told XZYcontent will sell a set for 20% of the price I ask? Well my answer is go by from XZYcontent because he needs the money more than I do.
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[QUOTE=LegendaryLars]you're welcome. Interesting thread and some good points made.Originally posted by charly
IMO for some the future will be selling on price, for others it will be selling on quality. AsHydro pointed out people will buy for different reasons.
With your analysis if the quality end of the business adopts it on mass it will put out of business a lot of the crap sites. This will result in more sites following this model. Many will fail at the ROI on $5 a month.
This will mean big profits for those left, assuming they can increase their memberships by a factor of 30+. Because the $25 you are cutting from the sales price has to come out of profit, you are not reducing your running costs in fact you increase them with the extra B/W and support required. So a site signing up 200 a day now will need to sign up 6,000 a day to make the same money. Assuming they can cover their costs out of the $5 membership.
However there is another side to the coin.
We can assume that the industry will not increase sign ups by a factor of 6 to make up the loss in revenue. So how long before most CC processing companies start failing and Visa/MC look at this industry that is suddenly bringing in 20% of what it used to?
We know they put up with us because of the billions we send them to process, will they be so kind if we start sending them a lot less?
Don't even think a merchant account will make a difference.Comment
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I disagree.Originally posted by charly
You can be great at converting, but if you don't have any traffic you have nothing to convert into $$.
If you have a shit load of traffic, but can't convert. Sponsors will flock like flies on cow dung to help you with that just so they can get a piece of the pie.Comment
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And what will the sponsors do with the traffic?Originally posted by swedguy
CONVERT it.
So I was right, someone has to convert it at some point and to actually start the traffic moving in the direction you require is a form of conversion.
The traffic already exists, we convert it by directing it as we wish to sites that take money from it by converting it into buyers.Comment
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I disagree with both of you on this oneOriginally posted by swedguy
I think you MUST have both (the traffic & ability to convert it)...one alone isn't going to take you very far
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this will suck
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I've been thinking about this idea of Lars, he usually comes up with real winners, and I'm afraid it will not float for the industry. A few sites might make it work for themselves but as an industry norm it's a complete non starter.
The reason is simple economics.
At the moment we have CC processors and CC companies charging around $3.00 on a $30 membership. If everyone or a very large proportion of the industry, was to adopt a $5 membership at the same percentage they would be taking 50 cents. How long do you think they would put up with that?
Everyone of the opposition you put out of business though good for you is one less company sending CC processors $3 a sign up, so they are going to lose $2.50 a sign up. They will soon be forced to make the minimum ccost of processing $3.
So now you are left with $2 to run a site. I doubt if you are making $25 a sign up today, running a site on $2 is impossible.
Nice idea but will not work.Comment
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Hmm I have already tried this out and have been successfull with it ! it all depends on what your overhead is, and what your content burn and employee cost are.Originally posted by charlyComment
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Conversion for us normally is when he's converted into $$.Originally posted by charly
The traffic is out there, but somene has to hoard it. If you had 1 million sites, with 1 surfer on each site - all those site owners would be equally (un)interesting to a sponsor.
If you had thousand sites with 1 surfer on 999 sites and 1 site with 1 million surfers, that single site owner would be king for a sponsor.
And if 1 sponsor could convert 1000 of those surfers and another could convert 4000 of them, that sponsor would be king for that webmaster.
So I guess it's like Rui said, both are king, it just depends on if you're an affiliate or a paysite owner.Comment
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If anything this will result in lower payrates for affiliates, more extreme cookie-cutter sites with shitloads of upsells and 0 quality members areas..
stupid idea...Comment
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Originally posted by Rui
No the idea is that the big big dogs media companies with giant libraries of content already, will in the ned dominate due to the breadth of their offerings. not the lack thereof. While payouts would remain the same due to the much longer retention. if I retain 4 times as long I can pay out a lot on a $5 membershipComment
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anyone remember the next big thing, $10 sites?
i don't.
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Here's the problem I see with that... getting the 400,000 - 1,000,000 customers in the first place.
I am assuming you will be relying on most of the signups coming from affiliates.
- How much can you pay an affiliate off of a $5 sale ? 50% a month? so $2.50 a month ? Not much of an affiliate program. Not that bad if it is just for an email address, but only $2.50 and they had to use a credit card !?!?! If they have to use a credit card I would rather make $70 a FREE signup instead of $2.50 a month. Not only do I have to hope that the person will rebill for 28+ months for me to make more with the rebilling, but I also have to wait 2 1/2 years to make the whole $70 where as I can make that money right now. not too mention the $70 is a FREE signup and not a $5 signup. Then there is always the possibilty I am an affiliate with 100,000 rebills and your company goes out of busiiness. I prefer to be paid per signup and not rely on the company to make sure I get my money long term.
Opperating cost:
- With or without affiliates you will have to pay to do your own advertising, especially if you do not have a lot of affiliates.
- You are still going to have credit card fees, content fees, employees, and bandwidth fees. better hope that someone doesn't watch a lot of movies they will eat up more then the cost of admission in bandwidth alone.
- How much will you have left over after pay all of these expenses from your $5 signup.
problems:
I understand the logic, give them a cheap $1 or $4.95 membership and the will bill forever, less chargebacks, etc. BUT, a lot of people cancel credit cards and are over the limit each month, or credit cards expire. You will still lose a lot of people who are in these situations even if it is a $1 a month or $34.95 a month. You will still have people getting busted by their wives and cancelling to make her think they didn't do it or really cheap people charging back $1. It happens lol.
I don't see a lot of $1 or $5 mega sites making it personally. If someone has to enter in their credit card why not advertise a free site or a site like lars or clickcash and make a lot more money. Unless if you think they will rebill for years and you want to take that chance and wait that long for the money. If Membership sites get into bidding wars and drop to less then 9.95 memberships, then very few will make it and the membership model will fade away. Free sites with upsells and Cam sites like Lars and Clickcash will flurish. my
ICQ: 86364801 Email: will [at] innovativeassets [dot] com
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Nice post will, I'm changing my opinion about you everyday that passes, you seem to be more than a "clickcash spammer" and make good informative posts
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Originally posted by Lane
Exactly, and what will happen on the Internet is websites will give content video away for free .. they will earn money of advertising. It will happen becuase Brad Shaw said it so..Comment
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also cheaper doesnt mean less chargebacks , i worked a guy who had a small site that rebilled at $5.99 a month . We got chargebacks all the time .Comment
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It boils down to content.
Video Company content DVD Liscenses?
Big whoop.
Sure one can squeek with DVD COntent, but they won't scream until delving in the messy biz of gathering exclusive. The net is a fast paced trash can and the few juicy parts of it that choose exclusive always do the best.
However my perception of exclusive is not really like the general perception of exclusive. It goes beyond a Dick Pizza delivery service one off reality site concept and deals with the more day to day events or week to week updates.
Do that thinking its wrth only 5 bucks a month is insane. Value, Events and New are what surfers constantly want. SO providing regurgitated DVD content is just silly it won't last with the Base.
This thread is so 2004 but still very very relevant.
Ya want exclusive content hit me up.
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Think of it this way...
The Internet is Prime Time 24-7, ya wouldnt want to feed nothing but re-runs to a prime time audience would ya?
Yet thats what most affiliate programs are doing.
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Ooohh ! More crafty ideas to shove sales down surfer throats!are ya ready for the big content owners who will come with the $5 site and offer more content than any other paysites out there ? the death of the $40 sale but at least the customer will recur for a year or more. and when I mean content I mean lots of articles and other stuff to keep people interested and excited.
A good site will sell for $30 and rebill for a year without any tricks.
Stop making shit sites. Then you won't have problems selling them.Comment
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Good point. Who will promote 5-10$ sites, when you can get everywhere else 35$ PPS?Originally posted by will76
Not a lot of people will promote this type of sites, unless you paid them 20-35$ PPS or you convert several times better then usual 35$ PPS sites.
Mailers are asking for 40$ PPS, they wont promote such program for sure.Comment
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This is just going to turn this industry correct, long term investment only for affiliate
program owners. What are the stats for the 10.00 a month programs?
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Give me a break, $5 sites?? Why should we lower our price now when people are already paying $30 a month. But hey, if you guys want to give away great content at $5 a month, go ahead, I will be laughing all the way to the bank.SexSearchComment
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Thanks very Interesting..Originally posted by will76Here's the problem I see with that... getting the 400,000 - 1,000,000 customers in the first place.
I am assuming you will be relying on most of the signups coming from affiliates.
- How much can you pay an affiliate off of a $5 sale ? 50% a month? so $2.50 a month ? Not much of an affiliate program. Not that bad if it is just for an email address, but only $2.50 and they had to use a credit card !?!?! If they have to use a credit card I would rather make $70 a FREE signup instead of $2.50 a month. Not only do I have to hope that the person will rebill for 28+ months for me to make more with the rebilling, but I also have to wait 2 1/2 years to make the whole $70 where as I can make that money right now. not too mention the $70 is a FREE signup and not a $5 signup. Then there is always the possibilty I am an affiliate with 100,000 rebills and your company goes out of busiiness. I prefer to be paid per signup and not rely on the company to make sure I get my money long term.
Opperating cost:
- With or without affiliates you will have to pay to do your own advertising, especially if you do not have a lot of affiliates.
- You are still going to have credit card fees, content fees, employees, and bandwidth fees. better hope that someone doesn't watch a lot of movies they will eat up more then the cost of admission in bandwidth alone.
- How much will you have left over after pay all of these expenses from your $5 signup.
problems:
I understand the logic, give them a cheap $1 or $4.95 membership and the will bill forever, less chargebacks, etc. BUT, a lot of people cancel credit cards and are over the limit each month, or credit cards expire. You will still lose a lot of people who are in these situations even if it is a $1 a month or $34.95 a month. You will still have people getting busted by their wives and cancelling to make her think they didn't do it or really cheap people charging back $1. It happens lol.
I don't see a lot of $1 or $5 mega sites making it personally. If someone has to enter in their credit card why not advertise a free site or a site like lars or clickcash and make a lot more money. Unless if you think they will rebill for years and you want to take that chance and wait that long for the money. If Membership sites get into bidding wars and drop to less then 9.95 memberships, then very few will make it and the membership model will fade away. Free sites with upsells and Cam sites like Lars and Clickcash will flurish. my
Maybye they will juast have like a $60 a year memebership instead.
I dont know but this thread is very interesting and has me thinking more and more. Thanks WillComment
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I really hope this doesn't catch up because it seems it will only fuck everybody (maybe not the paysite owners that will upsell their members like mad)...Comment
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Wow ! This is the most original idea of the year !Originally posted by SleazyDreamUUGallery Builder - automated photo/video gallery plugin for Wordpress!
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60$/year can be more interesting..Originally posted by LegendaryLarsUUGallery Builder - automated photo/video gallery plugin for Wordpress!
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definately better idea $60 a year membership.Originally posted by LegendaryLars
and webmasters then should get $60 PPS
so the programs will live out of the next year rebillsComment
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unless you have an upell per customer your bandwidth bill will kill you... but lars your cams fix that don't they !
One clicks will be everywhere too so chargebacks will be insaneComment
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it will make probs.Comment
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cheap sites are for people with lack of marketing skills. Im working on an exclusive site and will beta test it with 44.95/month, if it dont work, I will stay with 34.95.
You get what you pay for.
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exactly...Originally posted by DarkJediComment
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What I am noticing is the surfer decides the value of a site by joining and recurring. If you give the surfer what they are looking for and charge them a reasonable price then they pay and stay.
When we first opened up busty amateurs we charged 19.95 per month, then 24.95 then 29.95, then back down to 24.95 and each price level had a different reaction from sales and rebills.
If you are producing exclusive content then you should charge more per month, and surfers will pay it for sure since it is not saturated content.
No matter how I do the math I cannot see how the per sign up model makes the company money in the long run, the main reason they make money is the time delay between payouts, but what happens when billing companies start to pay you real time? I see that happening in the future, fraud checks will get better and chargebacks will get lower because processing companies will not want to lose their charters. When this happens webmasters will not accept payment being a month behind, they will want their money now before the company has a chance to get a rebill to recoup their cost, then what happens?
My 2 cents,
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Originally posted by gdog
very nice interseting take on rebills, and real time payment, cash flow ideas.Comment
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Click here to see how well that whole $5 idea will work. This company did REAL well with it. $10 - $5 same conversions.Last edited by Pornwolf; 02-28-2005, 01:59 PM.I've trusted my sites to them for over a decade...
Webair, bitches.Comment
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The margins will get smaller every day, it won't be so easy to enter this biz...I'm just a newbie.Comment
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how can your numbers say they rebill forever if the sites have only been up for a few months?Originally posted by PornDollarSorry to burst your bubble Lars..
PornDollar has $1 Per Month For Life sites.
Launched a few months ago with PornDollar 3.
Soon to be on its own with OneDollarCash.com
From our numbers.. These hella cheap signups rebill forever.
I host with VacaresComment
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Originally posted by RuiNice post will, I'm changing my opinion about you everyday that passes, you seem to be more than a "clickcash spammer" and make good informative posts
thankyou.ICQ: 86364801 Email: will [at] innovativeassets [dot] com
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Only problem with $60 a year is it's a big nut to pay without seeing the inside of the site.Originally posted by Basic_man
How many times do people pay a $2.95 trial membership and cancel cause the site shit, and have to fight with them to get a refund lol on the $2.95. People will be leary to spend a lot without knowing what to expect. Unfortunetly too many sites out there have shit for members areas and anyone that has signed up to more then a couple sited knows this. At least with the $2.95 trial memberhship they feel secure the most they can lose is $3 if they cant get you to refund it. BUt $60... most people will be too scared.
Sorry I know I am shooting down these ideas with out offering solutions ( i hate people who do that LOL) but the best model in my opinion for membership sites is the cheap trial membership and rebill high.
I can offer suggestions on the cams.com site...
Lar's if you haven't already added this to your cams site I would strongly suggest this:
Have the chicks that are serious about making money, to run a 24/7 voyeur cam at their house, if they have dsl, and no kids this will be no problem. Build little mini sites for these girls, www.cams.com/chicksname . Have the girl updated the site with pictures and vidoes and a blog ( i know you love'em) so she can chat with them there. Charge $24.95 a month for access, all of her regulars and then some will pay it. For the people who like the girl but can only afford say $50 a week ppv they will jump on this too. All the people with decent money will do it, whats $25 a month to them. It will NOT take away from her PPM sales because this will be a voyeur view cam with no live chat. You will make a killin! guaranteed. Hit me up if you need more details... I dream about building a live cam site and how i would set it up, but know i will never be able to do it.ICQ: 86364801 Email: will [at] innovativeassets [dot] com
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