Panama as a tax haven???

seems like its worth it

Panama is rather good, and I dont think you will be buttfucked

bookmarking this...

now this is bookmark worthy. Thanks slapass

It may be useful for non-US posters, but if you are a US resident you have to pay taxes on world income. I don't think there is any way of getting away from it. Even if you renounce your US citizenship they will come after you for taxes for the next 10 years.

If it appears that you created a corporation in Panama just to avoid US taxes then they will surely butt fuck you.

if you plan on living in panama its probably a good deal...but as long as that money is eventually coming into a us bank, you will have to pay taxes.

The coporation you set up in panama would not have to pay tax's but any money you had trasfered to you from the corporation you set up in panama to the US will most likely have to pay tax's on unless you move to panama or fly in 5k at a time you should consult with a corprate tax lawyer or accountant to know your options other wise all you will get is speculation

on a side note. what happen to your site. is it missing some images? the white part?

The short answer is "yes" you will get buttfucked. 9/11 has changed everything.

So, once you've made that $100 million and the bank shuts down your account and keeps your money what do you do then? You can't complain. You can't get help. You are fucked.

Of course, that would never happen in a nice peaceful and developed country like Panama. Yeah, sure.

You don't have to have the corporate bank account in the same country it is registered in.

You can register in Panama and open the bank account in a better country with a major worldwide bank.

just pay your taxes and write off as much as possible like computers, domains, hosting,content, bought traffic, adwords, computer accessories, convention trips etc

You are 100% right. I'd never put my money in a Panama bank.

You got jays-xxx who's in panama (and even fucks panamian hookers)
ask him

you reg an offshore company and open a bank account for it in a switzerland.

unload money in cash from US ATMs using a plastic card.

Thats what happened in that movie blow

I wouldn't choose Panama as a country to register in either.

knowledge


--

Pretty funny answer. Have you been in Panama?
Panama hosts 86 banks including some big american and canadian banks.
E.g. choose to bank with HSBC (now sure if pornwolf knows this name?).
Money is safe and insured.

Your information on the taxes is right, lot's of zero's ;-)

For the record: we're located in Panama

As in being 'developed' and 'safe'.

Panama is the 2nd most stable banking country in the world after the Swiss.

This country has more fiber connections and security then any other country in South America. All thanks to the US army.

->

there is also a well known webmaster who went through the same thing with 7 figures last year or the year before (i can't remember). he was just told to leave the country and supposedly had his accounts seized for "being involved in internet pornography" which is what they wrote on his passport.

safe from what? is it the second most safe country from the IRS next to Switzerland? are you just making shit up as you go?

"thanks to the US Army", i am sure they also have some great information sharing agreements with the EU and US tax authorities which change and evolve regularly.


there are no shortcuts. hire attorneys, get competent advice, do everything legally.

this doesnt work in canada if you have ANY residences in your name, or your wife still lives here. its all about residency, if you have any the government will force you to pay no matter what.

Thanks for posting proof....oh wait.....you didn't.

The Swiss opened their doors to the US, setting a bad precedent for those who sought tax shelters there. As someone up above said 9/11 changed everything, and only a few real small countries are holding out fairly well, but most of them would open their books if the US came at them hard, or the EU or any of the big anti-terrorist folks at this point.

Play the terrorist card and your money isn't safe much of anywhere.

Panama is a roll of the dice like anywhere else, though some offshore banks/corps are insured by US-based companies (like A.I.G.) and are about as safe as you can be without actually putting your money in Citibank.

Adwords? Dude, who said anything about adwords? Slapass doesn't use adwords... come on!?!?

Yea yea yea

First slapass, it depends which nationality you are and also where you plan to be resident while this corporation is operating.

For most countries, excluding the US and about 3 Middle East countries, this is easy to do, and, where you are living in your "home country" you are (99% of the time) obliged to declare all revenue from this comporation. (Note, I did not say it was "your" corporation! It ain't anyway - it is a legal entity.)

The above scenario to a degree defeats the whole excercise, although under the tax laws of some countries, their revenue collectors are only interested in the revenue brought into the country and it's not their concern about profits generated by foreign corporations where the funds are held elsewhere.

Strictly speaking, and in far the majority of situations, it is not possible to legally operate an offshore corporation, unless you actually live offshore (or in some other country than your country of citizenship), without paying varying amounts of tax in your homeland. (BTW... being offshore has nothing to do with citizenship, but there is a big concern if you have US citizenship.)

Ideally, you move to a country where the tax laws and all other stuff is advantageous and that kills all problems - you can do what you like and no taxes are payable in your homeland. Plus.. the lifestyle is often vastly superior anyway:-) Moving in most instances means "totally moving" out of the country - ie.. no revenue is generated from, eg, home rental etc. (Another note! This para does not apply to US citizens unless you do relinquish US citizenship, but is OK for the majority of other countries and does not affect citizenship. But, the US IRS does give some allowances.. think $70K-$80K for residing elsewhere, but taxes and returns are still required annually.)

Almost finally... absorb, but don't deal with offshore formation from "net marketers" - they know nada about offshore and are only interested in selling something and more of a danger than anything. The best sources for information and advice are lawyers/formation agents resident and operating offshore - I've never once had one of these people fail - unlike "onshore" :-)

Panama is valid as are most Latin American countries where a geographical taxation system applies - ie you pay taxes, tho often not much, for business done within the country, but no taxes on earnings from elsewhere. This is an ideal scenario for "mobile earners" - eg.. webmasters, commodity dealers, authors, collectors of intellectual rights revenue blah.

Panama and, generally, Latin American countries are not places to keep money and have banking accounts. They are corp formation countries. Banking can be anywhere you like and it is normal to have banking in another jurisdiction than that of the corporation. Despite that, Panama has a fair number of major banks and they are not just acting as office blocks to decorate the place - they do substantial business. (And... stating the obvious - you don't need an offshore corp account your home country!!!)

Finally, all this starts with who "you" are and what your country of citizenship is and your obligations under the tax laws their. Also, whether you are willing to actually live in another country. If you are in the US, it is harder, but not impossible to do this legally. You need *very* good professional advisors tho :-)

And yea.. got more Panama corps than I have fingers - it's not the corps that matter, they are ten a penny - it's the background setup and your personal situation that needs "organized" first depending on what is needed.

Bottom line?? Only my two cents worth, but I've never regretted one moment of moving "offshore". I wonder why the hell we never did it earlier! When the novelty of no taxation goes - it's more about a far superior level of lifestyle than tax or money.




PS Suggestions about setting up a corp and, eg, opening some account in Switzerland and using ATM cards to defraud revenue is not recommended - there have been too many cases of, particularly the US making applications to courts in other countries to have the accounts of US citizens opened - and also tracing transactions on eg VISA cards. (This exact situation is happening with VISA Miami office now over Caribbean bank accounts.) This level of offshore dealing is not really valid - it's just basically fraud and can leave ya open to crap problems.

Also.. on a comment posted above - if you happen to die :-) In that instance you elect to have the shares of any offshore assets transferred to whoever you wish - same as any asset.

Pornwolf:
No bank needs ever to be holding $100mill! :-) They have no cred to hold that level of money for one person - don't matter where the bank is, onshore or offshore. Can't remember, but I think the FDIC and some other orgs in the EU only guarantee around $50K in one account - that's more of a "non-guarantee" than anything :-)

very interesting read. thanx..

Bull shit

1) Panama is very stable for banking.

2) If you US, you can not get out of paying taxes but you can get get a 80k exemption if you live abroad and set it up so you earn "foreign income". ;-)

3) As long as you do not do business IN Panama, you pay no taxes to that government.

It's stable, but I doubt it ranks as number 2. Luxemburg is high up there.

Yea.. Pamama is fine for banking. A good number of international banks are there. Tho, depending, - if you have a corp formation within that jurisdiction, for several reasons, it may be worth considering banking in one or more other jurisdictions :-)

One of the reasons being.. Panama corps normally come with nominee directors and full Power of Attorney to enable *any* type of activity such as opening bank accounts. It is not the business of the nominees where these accounts are, if the exist in the first instance etc. It is better no one, apart from the beneficial owner knows of any bank accounts.

PS.. I'm not saying the nominees can't be trusted :-) They are usually judges or lawyers - but.... the less anyone knows your biz, the better :-)

Luxemborg don't like "offshore" - it is more a situation where you invest susbstantial amounts. It's not for "trading". A general indicator is.. jurisdictions similiar to Luxemborg generally don't want a load of crap "corp banking accounts" and concentrate on merchant banking investment.

Tho I can think of another country that far supercedes Luxemborg, is miles more secure than many major international banks, guaranteed to the hilt and is very rarely mentioned :-) And.. I ain't saying no more!! But they are, like Luxemborg - not into corp checking accounts etc.

This happened a week ago


Government of Panama poised to steal over 400k

As previously reported, The government of Panama is in a position to steal over $400,000 in players money. They are now trying to make a deal with certain players and in fact giving the majority of players nothing. Anyone involved in this process ought to be ashamed of themselves and are creating a black mark for online sportsbooks that will never fade.











1-13-2005

Government of Panama and Cybergaming steal players funds

The latest fiasco out of this Banana Republic is they have decided that anyone who deposited a large sum of money should be investigated for money laundering. Reports are that the owners of cybergaming and Betpanam have been working with the Government trying to explore ways of paying smaller players and stiffing the larger players. We can only presume this would be done to make the claim that they are paying players.

Anyone thinking of sending funds to Panama or relocating to Panama should heed this warning. Your funds and freedoms could be gone tomorrow for a few hundred thousand dollars. Any post up operation thinking of putting players fund at risk are being irresponsible and should be avoided. This venue is an embarrassment to online sportsbooks everywhere.

yes webby is one of smartest peeps who knows his shit in regards to these types of matters, been following his posts for several months now (not a stalker)

Don't forget to mention this



he Director of Gaming for the Panamanian Government has once again led us on a wild goose hunt. Players were to be paid a certain percentage of monies owed today, but once again the Government was full of hot air. It is bad enough having to deal with Sportsbooks going under and stealing everyones money but it is quite another to have to deal with a rogue Government that refuses to dispurse the $500,000 bond that was in place to protect the players in the first place.

This venue is out of control and any operations located there now should look long and hard at finding a safer place to operate. Currently, any book operating in Panama is working under the license of CyberGaming. Cybergaming also reportedly owns 55% of the now defunt Betpanam. There is only one license. It does not take a rocket scientist to see what is happening here. Any books operating under this license are also working under the bond money that would now be considered "Players Money"

awesome stuff thanks. I would think this is obvious but yes I would seek competent advice. Getting the skinny from GFY is the start not the end of the search.

I am looking hard at moving. The US sucks compared to other places I have been. UNTIL you try and do business. We can turn and burn here like no other place.

My idea was to have the Panama corp own part of my company and then use the funds for retirement as they built up tax free. A Sep-IRA might just be as useful and ten times easier.

I am not willing to throw away my US passport and join some other culture as travel is cool and being a US citizen is easy to travel.

Your crazy to leave money in Panama right now







01/26/2005 5:09 PM
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Almost 1 whole year after BetPanam closed down its doors to the public, a large majority ?if not all- of the players have yet to receive the pending balances they had with this online sportsbook. Many feel they will never see a cent of what?s rightfully owed to them, others are hoping to get anything they can. As confusion reigns, hope fades.

By now, online players know one thing for certain: this BetPanam deal was not all it was cracked up to be. In fact, it might very well be one of the most flagrant ?stiff jobs? to ever be conducted in the history of online bookmaking. Players were stiffed. Online operators in other jurisdictions -who were offered a license to operate in Sportsbook Haven, Panama-, were stiffed. Agents got stiffed. And to make matters worse, the results of this process that was supposed to be guaranteed by the Government of Panama has prolonged for almost 12 months; very painful months for those parties who lost their hard-earned cash in this deal.

Today, one day after the release of the Bond # 15-048600-8 -signed on July the 30th of 2004- was ordered by the Director of the Panamanian Regulatory Council of Gaming, Mr. Raul Cortizo Cohen, there still are some areas that remain unclear.

How many players will be paid? How much will they be paid?

What about the other players? Will they ever receive what?s owed to them?

How will the gaming licenses will be issued now?

Some of these questions have been addressed in the resolution issued by the Regulatory Council of Gaming of the Republic of Panama (English translation for ?la Junta de Control de Juegos de la República de Panama ) While this document successfully addresses some issues, many players were left in the dark as it was redacted in Spanish and written in Legal terms. In an effort to shed some light on this subject, I have created a translation of this document. Please visit this link (http://www.sportscrew.com/review/panama.php)) to read it.

After having studied the document, I have drawn some conclussions and I would like to bring them forward for further discussion. These are my conclusive statement drawn from this document:

1. The parties involved in or affected this conflict are:
A. The Regulatory Council of Gaming of the Republic of Panama or ?la Junta de Control de Juegos de la República de Panamá?: this institution represents the Government of Panama and it?s the responsible for regulating all gaming activity in that country
B. International CYBERGAMING Corp: the Corporation to which the Regulatory Council of Gaming conceded a gaming license. This license encompassed 10 licenses for online sportsbooks and 10 for online casinos; but they were not given the power to issue sub-licenses to 3rd parties, without the explicit authorization of the Council.
C. Corporacion Britania S.A: legal inscription of the company that actually run BetPanam.
D. The players who are owned monies

2. The Regulatory Council of Gaming of the Republic of Panama or ?la Junta de Control de Juegos de la República de Panamá, denies any direct responsibility for the pending funds. They argue they never authorized BetPanam ?registered as Corporacion Britania S.A- to operate as an online sportsbook in or from within the Republic of Panama. The further state that ?in order to operate online gaming systems in or from within the Republic of Panama it is required the subscription of a contract with the Government of Panama ?represented in this case by The Regulatory Council of Games- in virtue of which there will be issued the gaming licenses in favor of the Administrator/Operator and NOT of a third party as International CYBERGAMING Corp., has intended to construe; and in this case the Administrator/Operator was clearly warned at the moment of signing contract #375 (refer to clause #4 of the clause).?

3. The Regulatory Council of Gaming of the Republic of Panama or ?la Junta de Control de Juegos de la República de Panamá? claims that ?in order to fight the pernicious effect that this conflict might have had in the reputation of our jurisdiction and the impact it might have on the image of our growing online gambling industry, the Regulatory Council of Games of the Republic of Panama is now faced with the following choices: to determine its intervention on this conflict or not or rather delimitate its field of action regarding this conflict with International CYBERGAMING Corp., Corporacion Britania S.A. and/or BetPanam.?

4. William Commee was the registered director and general manager of International CYBERGAMING Corp. The company that is ultimately responsible for the monies owed to the bettors registered at BetPanam. Chester Hunter figures as the legally registered Risk Manager for Corporacion Britania S.A or BetPanam.

5. William Commee was never explicitly authorized by the Regulatory Council of Gaming to issue any form of sub-licenses. Furthermore, as of January the 25th, 2005 the Regulatory Council of Gaming of the Republic of Panama has ?restrict[ed] the Concession Contract #375 in favor of International Cybergaming Corp., to 2 licenses: one to be used as an online sportsbook and one to be used as an online casino.?

6. The Director of the Regulatory Council of Gaming of the Republic of Panama or ?la Junta de Control de Juegos de la República de Panamá?, Raul Cortizo Cohen has ordered ?the release of the Bond # 15-048600-8 signed on July the 30th of 2004 and due to be released on January the 25th, 2005 consigned in absence of an escrow account by International Cybergaming Corp., through Corporacion Britania S.A. with Aseguradora Mundial, S.A.; so that, using the same system used to make the deposits, the latter assumes the fulfillment of the obligations according to the attached inform by the Regulatory Council of Games?

7. Through this resolution the Regulatory Council of Gaming of the Republic of Panama or ?la Junta de Control de Juegos de la República de Panamá? has demmanded ?from International Cybergaming Corp. and from Corporacion Britania S.A., according to the statistical report presented by the Regulatory Council of Games in the Annex #1 of this Resolution, the payment of the owed monies to the 35 players who proved they had an active balance at www.betpanam.com , by presenting their respective balance sheets.? This amount of 35 players is by no means the totality of bettors, owed monies.

8. While Roberto Castiglioni ?owner of theoffshorewire.com- has made this document available to the public, the document itself does not mention Mr. Castiglioni as a determining or eeven invloved party in the process.

In short:
? Some players will be paid some of the money. The large majority of the monies owed to bettors has yet to be settled.
? William Commee never had autorzation to issue or negotiate any sub-licenses
? This document fails to explain what will be done with the total amount of funds contained in the Bond # 15-048600-8 signed on July the 30th of 2004 and due to be released on January the 25th, 2005 consigned in absence of an escrow account by International Cybergaming Corp., through Corporacion Britania S.A. with Aseguradora Mundial, S.A.

Please visit this link (http://www.sportscrew.com/review/panama.php)) to read the translation of the resolution issued by the Regulatory Council of Gaming of the Republic of Panama.

Peace out

Dude, this would not be money from sportsbooks. Mostly it is mainstream advertising.

Hear ya!! :-)

This has really little to do with banking in Panama. It's the usual problem with sportsbooks that exists.. hell.. almost everywhere.

The govt of Panama does have a severe problem with situations where funds are moved that in several instances are "illegal funds" and reach levels far more than $400,000 :-) Rest assured, there are always two sides to a story:-) The same or similar situation has risen in several places with sportsbooks and gambling - not that genuine gambling operators are messed with - but always other reasons, often unsaid, but well-known :-)

Pamama wants to develop it's international banking status - not kill it and this allegation of "stealing" from some casino operator has nada to do with banking. Legitimate banking in Panama is OK - otherwise major banks would be out of the place in 48 hours.



PS... Rest assured on the gambling article.. there is more in the background and you can guess who is pulling some strings on this and interested in "interviewing" the operators. It's always the same, - just different faces and locations :-)

I will add this... NEVER put all your eggs in one basket anyway. Spread your money out just in case, becuse you just never know.

Exactly!

And don't rely on anyone for anything :-)

BTW.. Same goes for "legitimate" payment processors, merchant account gateways or any other bullshit names. Bottom line - they hold your money and that it better off in your hands and pasted behind wallpaper than any bank :-) As long as you have decent home insurance

Hi Slapass,
In 2 weeks I will be living in Vanuatu http://www.mapsouthpacific.com/pacific/index.html
One of the reasons is because Vanuatu does not having any taxes other than customs duties and stamp duty and Vanuatu has not entered into any Double Tax treaties with other countries.

They have a "Mutual Assistance in Criminal Matters Act" which contains a procedure for co-operation with foreign investigators, and the "Serious Offences (Confiscation of Proceeds) Act" has anti-money-laundering provisions which could encompass fiscal crime but other than that tax evasion is not a crime in Vanuatu, since there are no tax laws, and the Vanuatu authorities are unlikely to assist an investigation into a tax matter.

Because I am Australian, for me to avoid paying tax on money I have earnt overseas I need to cut my ties with Australia and have no residences there nor dependents still living in Australia.I think this is probably similar to US law.

I love my lifestyle in Oz but the minimun tax I can get away with is 30%. Thats a big incentive for me to move but not reason enough if it was the only one.
Our deciding factor is that my wife is melanesian and it gives me and the kids an opportunity to experience the melanesian lifestyle.
Cheers.

Are you able to get any decent internet access there?

They only have one isp and they do have broadband.I am not sure how good it is but it could be no worse than what I am using here in oz where the best i can get in my town is 33.3 Kpbs dial up

WTF? Do you live in some small town?

If you are a US Citizen you can only have $72,000 of your income per year as not taxable overseas. Everything after that is taxed.

Yes on the sunshine coast. http://www.sunzine.net/suncoast/welcome.html

about the only place on the sunshine coast that can't get broadband and the dial up is hopeless.The government has now offered "HIBIS" which is a subsidy for Telstra to supply broadband by satellite.
too late for me now.

define stable banking country please

very informative thread (mostly thanks to webby)

swami please check this thread:
http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showth...54#post6595554