Originally posted by PBucksJohn
Your confidence in your software shows 
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If I did not have confidence in my software, I would not have it running my own affilate program. How many years experience do the NATS guys have running affilate PPS programs? Have you guys paid out tens of millions?Sig too big
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i love nats threads, the entire nats staff goes in there and hammers everyone that has a sliver of critisism of NATS, even when the thread was specifically not addressed to them
Originally posted by rounders
Bullshit, I am sick of hearing you say that. THE FACT is that when you released that program, you marketed it VERY HEAVILY with the "you cant shave with NATs" propegandaOriginally posted by PBucksJohn
Originally posted by fthylmann
the suing thing is BS, also, imo, i will believe it when i see it. let me also mention that the fallback point in all of your main arguments is that "well duh, sure you can shave using NATS if you do THAT, but if your affilite prods around a bit, they will catch you", which applies to nearly EVERY form of shave as well
Nats is good software and i am sure that you guys took steps and placed controls to ATTEMPT to prevent the people using it from shaving, but the same tirade irritates me when i see it done every week; with all due respect, you guys need to be more professional, objective and even a bit more open minded, like your competitors
now, dont attack me, attack the points, however, i have said my peace, you wont hear from me in this thread again, i spent my time typing this, try to make something constructive out of itComment
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BTW, we offer a full demo of our software to interested parties. But, due to our fraud features that we do not want leaked all over the place, demos are give on a one on one basis by Greg. They take 10-15 mins + any ?'s you may have. John is upset we have not given him a demo, we have simply been swamped with people really interested in buying the software.Sig too big
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About six months ago we started look for Affiliate software to integrate into our VOD solution. At that time the options wereOriginally posted by rounders
1) Write our own
2) NATS
3) MPA
After talking to a lot of customers we decided to go with NATS primarily based on what our customers wanted. I am not going to talk about technical strength about NATS or MPA because we never evaluated MPA as our customers were dead against using MPA.
MPA just got a bad reputation in this business with the whole MPA2 shaving function and that has left a bad taste on a lot of people?s mouth. End of the day integrity counts a lot in this business and people just don?t want to be associated with MPA even if it?s 100 times better then NATS.
Starting next month you can buy NATS and our VOD software as a package, all will work as a single system. Press coverage on our NATS deal can be found at http://www.objectcube.com/press.html
Jay
www.objectCube.com
PS: To be fare to Brad, when we decided to work with NATS, his product has not hit the market.Comment
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The entire nats staff? You think John and I are the only people in the company?Originally posted by JPeterman
And we hammer everyone that has a sliver of critisism? Not really true, we simply post our replies to that critisism. Are we not allowed to do that? So if I go and attack you in a thread thats not about you, you do not want to defend yourself?
Although, as posted earlier in this thread, we do nolonger want to talk about shaving here... tiny remark: our marketing did not start with "its impossible to shave with nats". We actually did not even say that, we simply said we have no shave feature because webmasters kept constantly asking us about it. Program owners started to pick it up and mentioned they use nats and thus "can not shave". But enough about this."Think about it a little more and you'll agree with me, because you're smart and I'm right."
- Charlie MungerComment
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"PS: To be fare to Brad, when we decided to work with NATS, his product has not hit the market."
Nothing wrong with NATS, it looks ok to me. I just can not see running a large scale operation without access to the code. NATS and ES target markets are not exactly the same. NATS can have all the guys they want at $150 a month.Sig too big
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Another drive by post by an anonymous poster. I'm not going to reply as you said you won't even be back. Plus I've replied to the same stuff 1000 times before.Originally posted by JPeterman
However, when you want to tell me who you are, who you work for/what you own and when you actually know me. Then you can comment on my professionalism. Ask our clients how professional we are. Believe it or not, we're a shining star in an industry mostly full of children.Comment
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1. We offer a shopping cart solution with MPA3 FOR FREE
2. MPA3 have had a gateway cascading (true cascading) working for a long time
Based on 1) or 2) the conclusion is: if you sell tangible good MPA3 is definite the choice.
4.) MPA3 do not hide the variables
5) MPA3 database are monitored by a third party ( clicktruth.com ). Cant not see that no other program offer that.
6) We know that bad support can destroy your biz. We are the only once that have a support center with a support ticket system in place. We also have support 24/7
I would personally not buy software WITHOUT support site and ticket system.
Feature wise we have as good as everything that the others have, it might be one or two we do not have, but I can show you at least 10 different features that we have that the others dont.
What should be of importance for future customers to know is that we have been selling affiliate softwares since 2001. We are a real company with a real support team and we always strive to please each and every customers ALWAYS!Comment
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EXACTLY!!!! Thank you .... here is someone who is a smart businessman and makes sense ..... i couldnt have said it better...Originally posted by PornGeneralBe it NATS or MPA3, shaving is going to be possible if the program owners are crooks.
I would ask to test drive both programs or demo them and find which one I felt more comfortable with.
I own AdultLounge.com and use MPA3 , i also have % interests in other affiliate programs and will be using NATS....its the owners you should get to know and not what software they use....anyone is welcomed to come over to our offices in Glendale and meet with me and my entire staff of 12 in our offices....
raffi
CEO & Founder
AdultLounge.com
WorldWideContent.com[email protected]
ICQ : 494-353-230
Follow WWC on Twitter CLICK HERE!
" CONTENT PROVIDER OF THE YEAR! " ~ 2007 , 2008 & 2009 XBIZ AWARDS WINNER!
.......www.WorldWideContent.com / www.WorldWideFeeds.com......Comment
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It is Saturday, I just came back from a beautiful day at a boatshow here in Marina Del Rey with my daughter. The sun is shining and I had another MPA3 contract in my fax. Its been a good day.
Have a good weekend everyone.
Around since 1997, and the company that introduced "Cascading Billing" in MPA3® Affiliate Management and Tracking Software
Outsourcing With A Norwegian Twist - NordBits - Inquire within!Comment
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Wonder why a potential client of yours came to us just a few days ago with true merchant account cascading being one of his number one points and you guys told him you do not have it right now.Originally posted by peter_mansion
We do not have a shopping cart solution inside NATS, we are not a shopping cart, there are big shopping cart apps out there, plenty of them which I am sure are more powerful than a shopping cart you just have "in" mpa3. And we can easily be setup to work with any of them.
We do not HIDE any variables. We cleanup the linking codes, making them SE friendly. Its rather easy to grab the data from that code.Originally posted by peter_mansion
Regarding Clicktruth, I am not familiar enough with their system to deceide if they are good or not. I just looked at the system shortly and am not sure what they exactly do to AUDIT anyone.
What exactly do you think this is: http://clients.toomuchmedia.com/ ?Originally posted by peter_mansion
Please do show everyone here the at least 10 different features that the others do not have. I'm sure everyone is dieing to know.Originally posted by peter_mansion
John and I have been doing affiliate software since at least that long also btw. But other than that, you mean that our company or Shaw Internet is NOT a real company with a real support team? You got to be kidding.Originally posted by peter_mansion
And btw, it would be sad if you would not strive to please every customers. The question is, DO you please every customer?
"Think about it a little more and you'll agree with me, because you're smart and I'm right."
- Charlie MungerComment
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I'm thinking about going to Boot 2005 in Düsseldorf this year. Just started today.Originally posted by OysteinIt is Saturday, I just came back from a beautiful day at a boatshow here in Marina Del Rey with my daughter. The sun is shining and I had another MPA3 contract in my fax. Its been a good day.
Have a good weekend everyone.
Hope you had a nice day, and congrats on the contract ;)
Have a good weekend too..."Think about it a little more and you'll agree with me, because you're smart and I'm right."
- Charlie MungerComment
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I agree Raffi, the owners are much more important in terms of trust than the affiliate program is. By far more important. But if you use an affiliate system that is totally untrusted by anyone, it does not help you a lot to gain trust in general.Originally posted by AdultLoungeRaffi
Anyway, enough about this subject, there are many more features that all these affiliate apps provide which are worth discussing and important when you deceide which one you would prefer to use."Think about it a little more and you'll agree with me, because you're smart and I'm right."
- Charlie MungerComment
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Nobody with half a brain will ever run their program on software like MPA2 or NATS since they don't come with source code, plain and simpleComment
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Do you use Windows? Do you use ICQ? Do you use an E-Mail app? Do you have the source to all of that?Originally posted by hammer2001
Why do you think you need the source? Do tell me. What good does the source do you? You want to change the app? You want to add features that you can only add by modifying the existing files?
Enlighten me."Think about it a little more and you'll agree with me, because you're smart and I'm right."
- Charlie MungerComment
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Damn! There are a lot of programs run by people who have had labotomies!Originally posted by hammer2001Comment
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I mean confidence in it being a superior product. If you felt it was you should have no problem opening up your demo instead of flashing that same screen shot again and again ;)Originally posted by BradShaw
As far as experience. You have more experience in running programs, we have more in writting and supporting software. We're a software company who bases our product on feedback from our many clients. And believe me, they are very experienced.
The input and ideas from dozens and dozens of program owners being deployed by very experienced developers will always outweigh the input of one program owner.Last edited by TMM_John; 01-15-2005, 04:05 PM.Comment
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Do you ever talk to your clients? Seems you spend all your time on message boards whoring your products. Enlighten me lol.Originally posted by Nathan
I bet they like how requests are treated cause your company is too busy serving dozens of other customers and has other priorities. Your success comes at a cost. Must be hard with 100 mom & pop programs bugging you guys on ICQ and email tickets 24/7 asking how to setup their lousy little CCBill product codes. And then all the board whoring you guys have to do explaining how nobody can shave with NATS lmao
Anybody who has some $ upfront, think about it. Buy some established source code outright and get a dedicated, loyal, local programmer in your office. No ICQ or email bullshit. Yes it sounds risky and it's so much more convenient to trust some board personas and their asskissers how great their support is. Still, you will be better off long term and never look back.Comment
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100%......waiting for someone to say that...it is so funny. Also I have been hearing more about "processor shaving" diversion of traffic before it even hits processor, please tell me it aint so?Originally posted by Dragon Curve
Also its PEOPLE who shave not the PROGRAMS...
Comment
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Ah right, so 100 one-man-show newbie programs make up years of in-depth industry experience. Might be true arithmetically, just doesn't compute in the real world.Originally posted by PBucksJohnComment
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I dont use either, I dont use any software that I have to have a subscription to or that they make it so expensive that they encourage people to buy a subscription to, make your business to exposed to problems if they go down or want to charge you more.
There are lots of good affiliate software out there you buy buy for just a few hundred dollars thats as good as NATS and MPA.
If you want a URL to what I use shoot me an email
[email protected]Muscle/Fitness Adult Affiliate Program
Since 1997 www.venuscash.comComment
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nathan or john how much do you charge to add extra features to a nats setup for a client?Comment
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Me? On the weekends. Sometimes, not often though. I do not talk to our clients often in general really, my primary job is not support or sales.Originally posted by hammer2001
Actually, they do like how requests are treated. You know why? Because our software actually is stable, efficiant and easy to use. It has a LOT of features already and the best part of it, we keep adding new features EVERY DAY. Those are features clients requested btw. Oh, and in case you did not realize, all our clients have new ideas every day, and the best and most important ones are picked and added to NATS constantly. The more clients we have, the more awesome features NATS will have and all our clients love using every single one of them.Originally posted by hammer2001
The programs you call "mom & pop programs" could very well grow to a substantial size rather fast. And with the help of our software, a lot of clients have grown their programs very nicely over the course of using it.
You seem very angry, do you have a problem with all these programs that might take traffic away from your big program? (If you even have one.)
I won't even comment on the shave remark, shows that you actually do not read.
So, you suggest that you buy a source code that, in Brad's example, took them 2 years to write, and then you hire a local programmer who first has to sit there and read and understand the source so he can even modify it without breaking something that might sit in another area of the system.Originally posted by hammer2001
Also, I find it extremely interesting that many of our clients actually had their OWN software or bought an app with source before, and at some point they noticed that it was just not cost effective for them to keep the in house programmers required and the headache was too much that it was easier to go with a solution like NATS which they knew had the backing of the community and also had the backing of a software company dedicated to make this the best product on the market in every aspect. The input of all the clients to make the product even better was of course also a "small" plus. ;)
To each one their own of course, no reason to get mad at me for anything."Think about it a little more and you'll agree with me, because you're smart and I'm right."
- Charlie MungerComment
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Dude, do you even have a CLUE who our clients are?!Originally posted by hammer2001
One-man-show newbie programs? Give me a friggin break."Think about it a little more and you'll agree with me, because you're smart and I'm right."
- Charlie MungerComment
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If its something very usefull for nats and all clients, most likely it will cost you $0.Originally posted by bigdog
We do not charge you for developing our own software. If you have a great idea, we add it free of charge.
If its something very special just for you, which we could not reuse for anyone else, then we will of course have to charge you depending on the amount of work involved. Hard to give you an exact price without any idea what would need to be added though."Think about it a little more and you'll agree with me, because you're smart and I'm right."
- Charlie MungerComment
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Mike,Originally posted by MikeHawk100%......waiting for someone to say that...it is so funny. Also I have been hearing more about "processor shaving" diversion of traffic before it even hits processor, please tell me it aint so?
Also its PEOPLE who shave not the PROGRAMS...
I'm sure "processor shaving" is something people with no other way of shaving will start to try. There is one good thing that Executive Stats and NATS have that helps to prevent or dedect that kind of stuff happening (maybe MPA3 has that too, I am not sure though). Both offer membership management, so if the app is used only for protecting the members area, the member has to be added to the app's database. So the app can find members it did not add by itself in the list of members. Not a perfect thing of course, but something you can take a look at at least.
And you are correct, like I said further up, trust in the program owners/managers is more important than trust in the software they run. But if the trust in the software they run is already non-existant, it just makes it harder to trust the owners/managers, don't you think?"Think about it a little more and you'll agree with me, because you're smart and I'm right."
- Charlie MungerComment
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Not mad at you at all. Just saying that people might better take a minute and look beyond the asskissing on the boards. Is your software or Oystein's good? Probably. Is it the lands of milk and honey? Probably not. Nothing is. The source code issue alone should scare anybody with ambitions away. You got a valid point though, it's not easy for an out-of-industry coder to dive into a 2 year old 3rd party project.Originally posted by NathanComment
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You're hilarious. I've never seen someone talk out of their ass so much in my life.Originally posted by hammer2001Comment
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You really can not imagine how many additions and tweaks we put on this app every single week. Those are worth much much more than you getting the source like it is now and changing it yourself. We can nolonger add features to yours that we do once you change the source, can nolonger guarantee that it would even WORK. What do we know what you changed.Originally posted by hammer2001
The benefits by FAR outweight the negative side of not having the source code. Especially with our fast turnaround time of features."Think about it a little more and you'll agree with me, because you're smart and I'm right."
- Charlie MungerComment
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John, thanks for your input! Say, I heard many good things about your product. Is it really impossible for a program owner to shave? Can you lay out some of the pros and cons of your system?Originally posted by PBucksJohn
You gotta love your job, whoring message boards and asking people on ICQ to post positive comments in your threadsComment
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I know, hard to beleive, but we actually do not need to do that. Our clients love our system so much, they come to these threads themself and post.Originally posted by hammer2001"Think about it a little more and you'll agree with me, because you're smart and I'm right."
- Charlie MungerComment
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Riiight.Originally posted by hammer2001John, thanks for your input! Say, I heard many good things about your product. Is it really impossible for a program owner to shave? Can you lay out some of the pros and cons of your system?
You gotta love your job, whoring message boards and asking people on ICQ to post positive comments in your threads
Welcome to my ignore. I don't waste my time on nobodies who don't even say who they are. You're nothing but an alternative personality of a competitor. Goodbye.Comment
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Haha what? Where has my affiliate code gone to? What on earth are you talking about? I could make something that emulated track.php transparently without raising a heartbeat. Let's see. track.php tracks the campaign/site/program combination from the query string and logs it. It then redirects to the site in question. Sets cookies and the like, all pretty straight forward. Anyone with 5 minutes and a brain could do that. Are you trying to argue someone couldn't easily replace track.php with their own code and make it simulate yours? Because if you are, you're a moron.Originally posted by Nathan
I am more than willing to achieve my bet. But of course, I'd need it to be sanctioned by you guys so that you couldn't turn around and badger me later.
All I sense is arrogance. If you sanction it, I could write a track.php which could easily implement shaving TRANSPARENTLY.
But since you're throwing things like "We're going to sue you!" out there - why would I bother? I just find it funny you're so naive and so arrogant.Comment
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If you had any clue about open-source you'd understand why I made that statement. Source code for a lot of things is readily available to allow third party companies to audit the code and verify its integrity and security. Thus users can feel confident that the code they are running is flawless and isn't going to break on them.Originally posted by Nathan
You seem to have very little clue about development for the guy who wrote NATS.Comment
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Again, I'll let Fabian do the tech stuff. He's asleep for the night tho.Originally posted by Dragon Curve
However, if you can help us in anyway to make things harder than we're looking to help you out also not sue you.Comment
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Here's some enlightenment for you Nathan. Linux is entirely open-source. There are programs for ICQ, which are open-source, email - open-source.Originally posted by Nathan
You know that language you developed NATS in? PHP? You may be shocked, but IT is in fact open-source!
All I sense from you, Nathan, is that you're entirely arrogant and not entirely intelligent. You are defending yourself with every inch of strength and attacking pretty much everyone in this thread.
Your posts are utter rubbish and you still won't stand up and say, yes, it is possible for someone to wrap around NATS to implement shaving. Wrapping is an idea that is years old. TCP wrapping? SOCKS wrapping? Hell, how about a kernel module that wraps system calls? IDSs etc.?
You'd have to be an utter fool to argue you can't simulate your code by wrapping around it with another file.Comment
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"Our clients love us and our features are awesome and ours is the best program in the entire world!" Grow up.Originally posted by Nathan
And as for the local programmer side of things. If you actually attended any kind of tertiary qualifications for development, you'd have been taught the term "documentation."
Most DECENT code is well documented to enable other developers to work with the same code. Thus, a new programmer will not "break" the code as you put it, but will be able to easily follow the code by using the documentation provided. This is how IT is professionally developed. Contractors come in and out; many people work on long-term projects.
You sound to me like you're self-taught and rather defensive about your skills/knowledge. Please, before you post again, it may be wise to actually research the techniques involved in development.Comment
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The point I'm trying to make is, you can make it as hard as you possibly can, but it's not impossible. Most developers could quite easily write something to shave.Originally posted by PBucksJohn
I think the point is that you guys are strongly AGAINST shaving and that you will not make it easy for anyone to do. That is a GOOD thing. However, coming in and attacking people for saying "yes it's possible to write something for shaving" and becoming incredibly defensive is NOT good.Comment
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", we have more in writting and supporting software. We're a software company who bases our product on feedback from our many clients."
What other software have you guys developed? Just curious.Sig too big
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Many many web based applications. I'll let Fabian toot his own horn when he wakes up in the morning. Affiliate software since 1997 (mostly private stuff).Originally posted by BradShawComment
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I don't think we attacked anyone for saying that. People are often quick to think a disagreement on a message board is "attacking". That's hardly ever the case from us. The only time I ever feel I'm really mad at someone is when they make it personal. Feel free to call us and speak to us or meet us in person and you'll realize what we're about like those who met us in Vegas and know us before then do.Originally posted by Dragon CurveComment
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nothing can beat a custom system
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Fabien own NATS? I am confused? I thought Nathan and John owned it. Fabien the one that sold Porn Track?Sig too big
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just do a search across the boards, lots of helpful threads already!Comment
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I agree that custom is better. But prepackaged/managed software CAN be so much easier...and faster to get... and usually cheaper.Structure Northwest :: the cure for the common code ::
AIM: Asatruel | Yahoo!: Asatruel | ICQ: 111-638-053Comment
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I don't see how an advanced custom affiliate script can be better than the one coded and supported from a company dedicated on this. I've been a client of Direct Response that operates probably the most advanced mainstream affiliate/network platform. (directtrack) These people have been developing the same product since '97, they have done innumerable upgrades/debugging, their own datacenter and so on. If someone would try to clone it he would need a huge amount of money and time and he would have to keep it supported with capable coders. Does it worth the hassle, time and money? No. What are the benefits of a custom script? To request something more to be added? This can be done too when you deal with serious companies.Comment
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If employees of either NATS or MPA3 are able to login in admin mode to obviously work the script bugs etc, what's to say they aren't lifting information out - emails of webmaster surfers etc?
What of webmaster SSN numbers, how are these protected?
just curious......
eight,eight,two,eight,eight,four,two
......Comment
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Brad
I think Fabian and Nathan are the same guy. Nathan is Fabians icq nicComment
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Originally posted by jigg
What about the billing companies? They have access too. The merc.gateways? same thing. Hosting company? Probably too. I can see the concern, but I would consider it as a big issue if it was the only one.Comment
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