Livebucks Fucking Over Webmasters!

Kev, Mariah has her own site www.mariahxxx.net and had a livebucks link in her member's area. This guy is well known to camgirls, communicates with many of them and has spent tens of thousands on private cam sessions. Not sure why you created some wild collusion scenario. Go read the thread on the other board mentioned, a well known individual has also had a very negative experience with livebucks. The board owners also removed them as an advertiser.

I've met Mariah, and she's friendly with people I trust, so Itracked down her stats screenshot:

Rewrite it in normal letters, please

She stated how she knows the guy several times, fellas, put your reading glasses on...He was a member of HER site, and a frequent camshow customer on Private Camz.

Who cares?

She offered the guy KICKBACKS for joining the LiveBucks program, find me ANY sponsor that allows you to give the surfers kickbacks on your referral fees.

I guess we should all go signup to a PPS sponsor and offer the surfer $10 for every $2.95 membership they buy. Hell, as an affiliate we're still making $25 on the deal.

See where im going with this?

Regards,

Lee

Lee, you are making an ASSUMPTION that is completely unfounded.

I AM REALLY SORRY TO HEAR THAT AND IM SURE THEY WILL WORK IT OUT AS THEY ARE TOP NOTCH GUYS

What the fuck are you talking about, do you have one shred of evidence that this occurred? Gee Lee, got anymore lies you want to pull out of your ass? You act like livebucks has some stellar reputation for which they most certainly do not. Get out and read the boards and talk to webmasters, Mariah isn't the first webmaster they have screwed over and she won't be the last.

Yes, I did not read her post on another board. Call it ignorance on my part, but I'm going on what she posted here. If I'm going to rant & rave about someone, I'd post the exact story up front - not the way she did.

If you follow her posts exactly, I'm sure you can see how the inference can be made.

"I know this guy from chatting with me on another cam site"
"I'm a webmaster for LiveBucks"
"He went to LiveBucks using my link, ref. ID, whatever"
"He bought a LOT of time on LiveBucks and I know it was him when I checked my stats"
"He told me he was buying these chats and didn't charge back"

Now, others (like you) are coming along in filling in the blanks and doing her work for her i.e. explaining, posting screen caps, etc.

In any event, anyone reading this thread can only go by what she's saying HERE (why should we run around searching - she's the one with the issue!)

.. and from what SHE has said, it's still far from clear.

But to be honest, I really should just bow out of this. If I was mistaken, fine and I'm sorry to her, I was only going by what I read, again *here* and from her mouth, not others.

Whether she is in the right or not, obviously she's dealing with LiveBucks and her lawyers and it will all get sorted out eventually.

Not to mention that they told her she did nothing wrong, that the customer was charging back, then they said it was fraud, and it's a revshare program, NOT a PPS, so even if she was offering kickbacks, which no one at Livebucks suggested she did, it would come out of her percentage, not theirs, so it wouldn't hurt them (Not that that makes it right, by any means, but this is just a hypothetical arguement anyway). But, again, I do not believe she was offerring kickbacks, she was never accused of offering kickbacks, and Livebucks gave two other reasons for not paying her.

I posted the screencap for her because she doesn't have enough posts to post images or links yet.

European Lee's word is worth shit anyway, everybody knows he fucked/cheated BlueDesignStudios.
He makes a perfect candidate for anyones ignore list.

Fair enough, I understood she couldn't post pics from her earlier post. I never claimed she was lying about her stats, for what it's worth.

But in what I hope(!) is my last post on this topic, let me explain a scenario - regardless of what happened in this case.

I'm a cam performer and I realize that some of my customers are "whales". I get a nice cut from private sales on site A. But being ingenious, I also realize that I can make even more money on top of my cut with these guys by referring them to this (or other) cam sites, including my own.

Perhaps I offer live chat on my personal site as well.

I sign up as a webmaster with a few cam programs, build a personal site and tell my whales about it in my chat room. They follow the link and chat with me on my site and/or follow the links I put up (with my aff. ID) to other cam sites.

Now, I'm making 100% on chats through my personal site - better than the cut on site A, obviously - and possibly a webmaster cut for referring them to Sites B, C, etc.

As a site owner, obviously, this is the reason I have a TOS with my performers. To prevent them from "stealing" customers to their own site and/or referring them to others. If a performer sends a URL or personal information to a customer in a chat room, it's a violation of our TOS.

Now, if this whale found me originally through my personal site that's fine and technically not a violation of any TOS. I brought in a new customer to Site A, B, C, whatever and I deserve a cut. Possibly, I have an agreement that performers can't get a cut for referrals, but that's another story!

However, *if* this whale met me on a cam site and *then* I refer him, directly or indirectly, from a chat there then obviously Site A's owners won't be too pleased - they lost a whale because of one of their own performers.

So, after all that, I obviously don't know exactly what happened in her case. If she would like to clarify *exactly* how she originally met this whale, and *exactly* how she referred him to LiveBucks then that would probably make things much clearer.

If she posted all this somewhere else, fine, but it's not my responsibility to hunt it down. And if she really did nothing wrong at any level, and her story is accurate, then she's probably going to come out of this on the winning side and good luck to her.

Perhaps the LiveBucks people would post their side and put an end to the story - they are obviously in the best position to dispute (or, perhaps, agree).

I do understand what you are saying, but just the fact that they initially said he was charging back, and then stated it was fraud that would be investigated and it would take 90 days, tells me that it's most likely not any fault of hers..in fact, she stated the owner of the program specifically told her SHE did nothing wrong, that the customer did.

Why are all your posts in this thread filled with wild speculation, none of which has been stated by Mariah or livebucks as happening. Its been stated a dozen times in this thread, the whale came from a livebucks link inside the member's area of her site www.mariahxxx.net Most likely the customer became a member of Mariah's site from her many shows she does on camz and ach. Then the customer ran up a large amount of privatefeeds (livebucks) private sessions over a month long period. Two days before Mariah was due an affiliate check, they said the customer would be charging back and she wouldn't receive anything. Two weeks prior to this they informed her that she would only be receiving 20% commission instead of the tiered payout because most of her affiliate earnings were from one customer. When pressed on the boards, livebucks then said they would pay her out at the stated % on their site after all. They said the bank would investigate the chargeback and would need 90 days before they could release the funds assuming the chargeback wasn't legit. That 90 days ends the end of this month.

I have no problem with a sponsor not paying an affiliate because of a chargeback, but don't tell your affiliates that they have nothing to worry about because you absorb all chargebacks and then not pay them because of it. Also, Mariah isn't the first affiliate who has stated that livebucks tried to pay them at the lower tier even though their earnings qualifed them for a higher %. Kev, just comment on what we know happened, when you launch into wild speculation all you do is feed the trolls like Lee.

very interesting read I am so far convinced that you are not lying... and you should not miss out on money that you make them

Euro Lee has to be the biggest dumbshit I have ever seen in my life.

P.S. for the mentally challenged. Lets assume your bullshit scenario were true and she gave a surfer kickbacks. There isn't a cam sponsor in the world paying revshare that would give a flying fuck. They cam sponsor makes their cut regardless of what you do with yours. This isn't some PPS program. You are all a bunch of idiots. Brilliant fucking scam, "go spend $10,000 a month here and I'll give you $1000 back. We'll fuck that sponsor good".

Remove heads from asses.

STFU FOOL!!!!!!!!!!

w0rd to that

Removing livebucks links immediately

scamming sponsors suck, to quote Quagmire, "rotting whales cocks"

1. Apparently, you read my posts but missed the point: It's obvious he came to LB from a link on her site.

2. That doesn't explain the whole picture, something you are clearly failing to acknowledge. If the whale went to her site after chatting with her on PrivateCamZ then exactly how is my post above "wild speculation"? That's the exact scenario I described!

btw. "Most likely" (your words) is speculation too, isn't it?
Most likely is also far from fact. Is that what happened or not?

So far you, nor her, nor anyone has explained *here* how she knows that it was him that signed up on LiveBucks? Simple question. Still no answer. If someone can clearly, simply connect the dots to *exactly* how this unfolded - without speculation, of course, I'd love to hear it.

For the dozenth time: If she's only an aff. with LB then how does she know he followed a link from her pay site to LiveBucks and signed up? I've stated before, in LiveBucks stats all you have is a customer ID - no nickname, no real name. Unless ... never mind, that's speculation

So clearly, if you want to even try to understand my skepticism, it is simple. And here I am going by stated facts only, feel free to correct me:

1) Cam girl sends a customer (a "whale") from Site A (where she's a performer) to Site B (her own site, where there is a link to ...) Site C (where she's an affiliate) and she rakes in 40% in revshare (or so she expected).
2) When Site C doesn't pay she contacts said whale personally and asks him about it which means ...
3) Somehow, she knows that all those purchases on Site C are his. How?

Okay, so back to a question I've raised repeatedly but I haven't gotten a straight, direct, non-speculation answer ... (see point #3 above)

If I'm a total idiot, fine, but still after all these posts and your explanations, and others, it is still far from clear - feel free, anyone, to spell it out in excruciatingly plain english ... take away the speculation that you, I and others have and the dots still aren't connected.

So, instead of supposing and speaking for her further (everyone, myself included), I would really love Mariah to explain exactly how this whole scenario happened or LiveBucks. Until then, nothing is fact. And if she or they don't want to, for any reason, I don't blame them. It should be taken "offline" and left there. And after it's sorted out if they want to come back and post the results, great.

Now I really, really want to let this go so please unless anyone plans on literally spelling out E X A C T LY what happened - from FACTS only, my opinion is reserved until it's ever resolved and published.

(And please don't say the obvious: That all the FACTS have been totally/completely explained *here* on GFY. If you believe that to be true, see last paragraph and I'll eat my words. )

Good lord I am going to rest now....

Great contribution to the thread.

When you hit puberty and have something intelligent to say, come back and
post it, k?

Dammit dude connect these dots.

Customer you talk to spends $10,000 a month on site a.
Same customer quits spending $10,000 a month on site a but look you have a referral to site b. spending $10,000 a month now.

IM to customer you talk to: Hey, did you sign up to site b from my website?
Customer: Why yes, yes I did.
IM to customer: Why thank you, I really appreciate at that.
Customer: You're welcome, I love the cams!

Now I will go search for the 8th wonder of the world.

Oh god, your head is so far up yours ... I have a cam girl who sends my customers of to her own web site and I'm happy about it? That's why they have a TOS ... most are something like "you can not give out personal info to customers incl. phone, email, urls, etc." Why do you think they have that provision? Just for the girl's personal safety?

And it's not about fucking the sponsor over - it's about deliberately baiting and switching "whales" from one site to another.

Wake up.

= Speculation. Sounds very good, but that's not fact.
A few holes in that scenario, but it's not worth bickering ... when/if she confirms it, then fine, until then you're assuming/guessing too.

WAIT A MINUTE..Private Camz is specifially for girls who have their own sites. Completely different model then you are running. You have to have a website to do AmateurCamz shows, and you have to do the AC shows to host on PC. k?

Secondly, with regard to your earlier question about how she knows it is the same guy, she said she noticed the PC sales stopped at the same time the LB sales started, so she asked him, and he told her he had switched over.

Kevsh - What a lot of webmasters don't realize is that models do talk to their customers regularly. I have plenty that tell me about other cam shows they see, their favorite web girls (well, 2nd favorite) & so on. She may have been fishing for information, but it wouldn't sound out of the ordinary to the whale to ask him, "Who's your favorite girl over at LiveBucks? Candy looks really cute! Have you bought a show from her?" & so on.

Get off the meds, booze, crack, or wtf ever it is that is clouding your thoughts to the point of retardation. I won't respond again, this is just silly.

thats scummy

I know I am getting old ( 50+ ) and as a senior member of this board I sort of like to ask you not to type CAPSLOCK that is sort of hurting my vision and makes me wanna puke since I realize I am over 20+.
ok sorry back to the very important info within this thread.
soory for the remarks, just go on.

I feel like i keep having to hold you to the facts, nowhere did she ever say the customer came to her site via privatecamz, stop just making up things. She simply said that he was a well known whale over at privatecamz. Kevin, take some time and actually read the intial thread on the other board that she referred to in the intial post and stop misinterpreting what happened.

The bottom line Kev is that livebucks has never said any of your speculation is the reason for her not getting paid, so why do you insist on making up some scenario instead of commenting on what happened? The issue being discussed has nothing to do with how she acquired an affiliate referral, it has to do with a sponsor withholding payouts because of a chargeback when they tell their affiliates they absorb all chargebacks.

Yeah I was going to mention that even if Kev's scenario occurred the sponsor still pays out the exact same amount, but there's no point in even discussing that because neither Mariah nor Livebucks has said that occurred. I have no idea why Kev won't comment on what we do know but would rather speculate on something both parties have said didn't happen.

ok, here's the scoop...This guy was a member of my site for several months....he found me on privatecamz because when you login to privatecamz the "Live Now" button shows your free vid feed on your site! He came into chat and spent a lot of $$ with me....he told me he is always on and spends like crazy! Also on PC next to each customers name is a # showing their amount of "chips" and his was over 15,000!

He also bought shows at a rate of $37.50 a day (thats my cut) and did so for months, then that number doubled, then doubled again. then one day i start getting emails from livebucks saying I had referred sales, and there were no more Privatecamz purchases.

I put 2 and 2 together and said, "hmmmm, I bet its the same guy!" So I sent hiim an email and asked him and he replied and said yes, he visits several live cam sites, and has been a steady customer of ifreinds, camcontacts, interclimax shows, and others since 1999.

On my site I have a live show page with nothing but links to upsell sites like livebucks, bigcashcrew, webcamcash, ifriends, and others....he clicked that link on his own and liked it, and spent his money. I never once suggested any of the links because quite honestly I have no idea who pays what, I figured they were all pretty similar.
And if I wanted the guy to buy from a certain site, why wouldnt I choose one of the sites like imlive or ifriends that pays $100 per sale or whatever? Ive seen programs with huge payouts and would certainly steer someone to them first.

You know what they say, never assume or....

They fucked me out of the money, wont show me proof of any dispute or even return emails at all. they said they absorbed all chargebacks and refunds and then went back on their word.

Where the fuck is the logic in arguing with me on this? The facts are quite clear and documented if you take the 5 minutes to look it up on gg n j...which I would do before accusing someone of fraud.

Thanks again...and fuck LIVE BUCKS and Karl Hamilton.Liars and thieves...

how do you know he didn't charge back - because he said so? and if he made thousands of dollars of purchases knowing he would later charge back, how would that not be fraud?

i'm not saying he DID charge back but i'm saying he may have. i used to manage a strip club and guys pulled this shit periodically when they overspent over a period of months or lost interest in the girl they had been spending to impress. needless to say is that they always told the girls they didn't charge back, but their banks told us a different story.

i kept getting emails saying the sales were still going on for weeks! The same customer #!!! He spent like that for months on PC....and even if he did, which I dont think he did, they said, "we eat all chargebacks and reunds"

so wtf does it matter if he did or not? it just makes it worse that I dont think he did.
If he faxed his id, copy of his credit card how could he chargeback? makes it tougher for sure.
They lied from day 1,,,,why would I think differently now?

He may have charged back, but livebucks was promoting itself to webmasters on another board by saying they absorb all chargebacks so the affiliate need not worry.

it doesn't make it tougher for him to chargeback. it doesn't stop him from charging back at all. it only means that it can help to dispute the chargeback by the merchant and even then, its a tough thing to fight and the bank is usually going to side with the cardholder (their client)

there is a lot of chatter here and its all one sided.

on top of that, people fax photoshopped/fake ID's in all the time as well. you know nothing about the other side of running a cam business.

a quick clue for all of you who seem to know nothing about credit card processing. it doesn't matter if you think its fraud or not. the burden of proof is on you and the bank is almost NEVER going to listen to you and side with you against their own customer.

have you heard of a little policy called "zero liability"? the bank doesn't have to listen to you. they don't have to care or care that you were scammed. they don't have to investigate. they don't have to do anything. the most effective way to fight a chargeback is to scare the individual into calling his bank and reversing it... which is tough to do as well. other than that... what are you going to do? call your local police department and report the 1,000,000th credit card fraud report for that afternoon?

there is a reason no one fights chargebacks. there is a reason that no one is being arrested for fraud related to 1000's in chargebacks for porn sites.

Thanks captain obvious, we are all aware that a chargeback may have occurred, but the sponsor has said that they set their payout % so as to include the absorption of chargebacks and the affiliate will be unaffected.

Just give up man, these people are like the ones on TV saying aliens abducted them.

Yeah, can't believe I've even wasted this much effort, its as if they're responding without having read the thread.

Like anyone takes your word these days. You are a liar and a thief.

thanks for the feedback and support..well most of ya!

appreciate the feedback, good and bad.

just wanted to give people who might end up like me in this a heads up...didnt want to start the webmaster version of Biggie vs. Tupac!

Anyway, i'll post any results and let you guys know whats up.

they suck and I hope the ones who do promote this piece of shit site see the reason I brought it up....shouting in caps or not.

Again, appreciate it and have a great March!

xoxo
Mariah

bump for drama! :D

Whats the update on this mariahxxx?

I don't know the in's and out's of this particular issue so I can't comment because I don't know the facts. I do know that every story has 2 sides.

My own experience with Karl and LiveBucks is that they are genuine guys and great to work with.

I would personally recommend them.

BTW - I hope that you do resolve your problem, I can fully understand your frustration.