So why is it accepted that dating sites shave?

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  • CAHEK
    C.C.C.P.
    • Aug 2003
    • 7437
    #51
    post 50
    Pharma from True-Meds. High converting shop in Europe and USA, fast payouts via BTC !!!

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      Comment

      • Dirty F
        Too lazy to set a custom title
        • Jul 2001
        • 59204
        #52
        Originally posted by Yngwie
        psyko514 makes some good points BUT what Batuss is trying to say is that why the hell should a company be allowed NOT to pay you for traffic that THEY WILL make money on? I don't care if they state that they don't pay for foreign traffic in their TOS. Not paying out for something THEY make money from is the same as stealing.

        If they didn't make a single cent from the foreign traffic then it would make sense that they not pay you for it. If they will actually make money from that type of traffic then it would be fair to give a cut to the affiliate who sent it to you. Saying whatever in their TOS does not mean "We can make all the money and only pay you out for what we want at any given time"

        Of course, if it was me I would stop sending traffic to them if a lot of my traffic was foreign. No point letting them cash in on YOUR work.
        Thanks, thats what i mean indeed. Terms or not. Terms shouldnt mean "we are allowed to steal".

          Comment

          • psyko514
            See sig. Join Epic Cash.
            • Oct 2002
            • 22366
            #53
            Originally posted by Battuss
            Anyway, you think this is good business ethics? You should fuckign be on my side and not on theirs. Terms or not, they simply found a fucked up way to scam affiliates and pretend theyre very generous with their payouts while in the same time theyre stealing it right back from you. Legally i cant do shit because of their terms, indeed.
            I never said anything about business ethics. I'm not even taking sides. I'm just calling it as I see it.

            What I'm telling you is that that's just the way things are and whining about it on GFY won't accomplish anything. No one found loopholes, no one is screwing anyone. You can't accuse them of stealing because they've already told you not to send your foreign traffic to them.

            If you and your neighbour sign an agreement in which he clearly says "Don't throw your frisbee in my yard" and you proceed to throw your frisbee in his yard after signing the agreement, you can't cry or whine or accuse him of stealing when he keeps your frisbee.

            Although what they're doing may suck, it is perfectly legit and legal. The fact that you were naive and made an assumption is no one's fault but your own.

            You learned your lesson, now move on. Find a program that'll pay you on all traffic, find a geo-sorting script, or just keep doing what you're doing. But for christssake, stop whining about it!

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              Comment

              • Dirty F
                Too lazy to set a custom title
                • Jul 2001
                • 59204
                #54
                Originally posted by psyko514
                I never said anything about business ethics. I'm not even taking sides. I'm just calling it as I see it.

                What I'm telling you is that that's just the way things are and whining about it on GFY won't accomplish anything. No one found loopholes, no one is screwing anyone. You can't accuse them of stealing because they've already told you not to send your foreign traffic to them.

                If you and your neighbour sign an agreement in which he clearly says "Don't throw your frisbee in my yard" and you proceed to throw your frisbee in his yard after signing the agreement, you can't cry or whine or accuse him of stealing when he keeps your frisbee.

                Although what they're doing may suck, it is perfectly legit and legal. The fact that you were naive and made an assumption is no one's fault but your own.

                You learned your lesson, now move on. Find a program that'll pay you on all traffic, find a geo-sorting script, or just keep doing what you're doing. But for christssake, stop whining about it!
                So if you read in the terms we dont pay for foreign traffic you dont assume they have no use for it so they cant pay for it? You instantly know its just to rip off the affiliate?
                Fuck, i so hope one day you will promote one of my things and im gonna make the smallest term somewhere on some page saying if your nick on gfy is psyko i will shave 50% of your signups. And you know what you wont have ANY reason to bitch because its your own dumb fault.

                  Comment

                  • psyko514
                    See sig. Join Epic Cash.
                    • Oct 2002
                    • 22366
                    #55
                    Here's the definition of the word "steal".

                    1 a : to take or appropriate without right or leave and with intent to keep or make use of wrongfully. b : to take away by force or unjust means. c : to take surreptitiously or without permission.

                    Did they force you to send the foreign traffic? Did they instruct you to send it to them? Did they take it from you without asking?

                    Nope.

                    Go find a better word.

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                      Comment

                      • psyko514
                        See sig. Join Epic Cash.
                        • Oct 2002
                        • 22366
                        #56
                        Originally posted by Battuss
                        So if you read in the terms we dont pay for foreign traffic you dont assume they have no use for it so they cant pay for it? You instantly know its just to rip off the affiliate?
                        Fuck, i so hope one day you will promote one of my things and im gonna make the smallest term somewhere on some page saying if your nick on gfy is psyko i will shave 50% of your signups. And you know what you wont have ANY reason to bitch because its your own dumb fault.
                        I don't assume anything. If the program states they won't pay me for it, I don't send it to them. I don't give a fuck if they make double the cash with it or if they redirect it to a goatse gallery. They told me they won't pay me for it, so I don't send it to them. I monetize it elsewhere. If they tell me they'll pay 50% of dialer income, I check to see what their redirects look like and if they're bad, I redirect myself and try and make 100% of the dialer income.

                        And just make sure your program terms say "psyko514" and not "psyko".

                        But I doubt the non-payment for foreign traffic term is written on a hidden page in a small font.

                        Oh, and like you said, if you put that clause in, I can't bitch cause it's my own dumb fault, right? So are you admitting that you sending foreign traffic despite their clause is your own dumb fault as well?

                        I'm confused now. Did you start this thread to whine about a sponsor program or to whine about your stupid assumptions?

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                          Comment

                          • SomeCreep
                            :glugglug
                            • Mar 2003
                            • 26118
                            #57
                            Originally posted by Battuss
                            "We don't pay for foreign traffic"

                            Ok lets see what happens.

                            Guy from Holland signs up for a free membership at datingsite X. Affiliate does not get credit because it's a foreigner. (although you can bet on it that datingsite X WILL use the email to spam....) So the Dutch guy browses around on the site and sees a hot chick. The Dutch guy pulls his cc and pays for a membership. You dont see a penny. So now datingsite X has a free email and got paid without having to share.

                            A few weeks ago a dating site told me im sending quite some foreign traffic and i wont get credit for that. At that point i had no clue they simply let the guys in and throw a huge "click here to pay for a full membership" text in their face.

                            I honestly think i lost a few 1000's in payouts this way.

                            This is simply shaving. I can't find another term for it. I think its insane. Oh wait, maybe stealing is another good term to use.
                            All affiliate programs are different. Some filter out foreign traffic, while others pay you for it. In your case, the smart thing to do would be to filter out your foreign traffic.

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                              Comment

                              • Dirty F
                                Too lazy to set a custom title
                                • Jul 2001
                                • 59204
                                #58
                                Psyko, stop being a cocksucker. You know what the fuck im talking about.
                                The term is there because they dont want to pay for foreign emails if youre with the pay per free signup program. I totally accept that. Because at that point they dont know if that customer has a credit card. But im not on the fucking pay per free signup program. I get paid when someone signs up. So this term is totally useless with my program. Yet they keep it there and we both know why. This shouldnt be accepted and thats why im posting this to make people aware. These companies are ripping you off for 1000's simply because you didnt read the terms right. Business shouldnt be that way and you shouldnt defend it.

                                  Comment

                                  • Dirty F
                                    Too lazy to set a custom title
                                    • Jul 2001
                                    • 59204
                                    #59
                                    Ok, gonna eat. Cant wait for your next post where you defend the scammers because they have bullshit in their terms.

                                    "Yes theyre allowed to shave you and 1000's of other people because their terms says so".

                                      Comment

                                      • Theo
                                        HAL 9000
                                        • May 2001
                                        • 34515
                                        #60
                                        Can anyone else verify that AAC doesnt credit sales for the non-US traffic on their PPS program? I've read the opposite.

                                          Comment

                                          • Webby
                                            Too lazy to set a custom title
                                            • Oct 2002
                                            • 14956
                                            #61
                                            Battuss:

                                            Take up that prior stuff about AFF.

                                            I have no ulterior motives to recommend them other than been doing biz with them since... around 1995-96. They are one of the rare sponsors (those you can count on one hand) that are stable, have their act together and pay like clockwork.

                                            BTW.. Not that other sponsors are not the same as AFF - just that AFF have a track record dating back to almost the start of the "commerical net".
                                            XXX TLD's - Another mosquito to swat.

                                              Comment

                                              • psyko514
                                                See sig. Join Epic Cash.
                                                • Oct 2002
                                                • 22366
                                                #62
                                                Originally posted by Battuss
                                                Psyko, stop being a cocksucker. You know what the fuck im talking about.
                                                The term is there because they dont want to pay for foreign emails if youre with the pay per free signup program. I totally accept that. Because at that point they dont know if that customer has a credit card. But im not on the fucking pay per free signup program. I get paid when someone signs up. So this term is totally useless with my program. Yet they keep it there and we both know why. This shouldnt be accepted and thats why im posting this to make people aware. These companies are ripping you off for 1000's simply because you didnt read the terms right. Business shouldnt be that way and you shouldnt defend it.
                                                I'm not defending anything. I'm simply saying it is what it is. You don't like it? Do something about it.

                                                You're not making people aware of anything because for some reason, after a dozen posts of calling the company in question theives, you've still yet to name them. Why's that? Afraid to be accused of libel? Planning on sending more traffic to them but afraid they'll cancel your account?

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                                                  Comment

                                                  • Dirty F
                                                    Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                    • Jul 2001
                                                    • 59204
                                                    #63
                                                    Originally posted by psyko514
                                                    I'm not defending anything. I'm simply saying it is what it is. You don't like it? Do something about it.

                                                    You're not making people aware of anything because for some reason, after a dozen posts of calling the company in question theives, you've still yet to name them. Why's that? Afraid to be accused of libel? Planning on sending more traffic to them but afraid they'll cancel your account?
                                                    Libel? What because im telling the truth? And no im not sending them 1 more hit.

                                                      Comment

                                                      • psyko514
                                                        See sig. Join Epic Cash.
                                                        • Oct 2002
                                                        • 22366
                                                        #64
                                                        Originally posted by Soul_Rebel
                                                        Can anyone else verify that AAC doesnt credit sales for the non-US traffic on their PPS program? I've read the opposite.
                                                        If he's talking about AAC, then their terms make no mention of not paying on non-US traffic on their PPS program.

                                                        So if Battuss is talking about AAC, then he's got a valid beef and he should do something about it. Cause in this case, it would seem as if he's getting fucked, along with others as well.

                                                        Battuss, are you talking about AAC? If so, fight the good fight because it would appear as though something is sketchy since the terms make no mention of not paying on non-US signups on PPS.

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                                                          Comment

                                                          • psyko514
                                                            See sig. Join Epic Cash.
                                                            • Oct 2002
                                                            • 22366
                                                            #65
                                                            Originally posted by Battuss
                                                            Libel? What because im telling the truth? And no im not sending them 1 more hit.
                                                            Here's my stance.

                                                            If the terms say they won't pay on foreign traffic, then they're not shaving/stealing. Yes, it sucks ass and means you gotta take the time to geo-sort, but that's life.

                                                            If the terms make no mention of non-payment for foreign traffic and yet they still don't pay you for foreign signups, then definetly something is sketchy to say the least.

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                                                              Comment

                                                              • Webby
                                                                Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                • Oct 2002
                                                                • 14956
                                                                #66
                                                                I'm not defending anything. I'm simply saying it is what it is. You don't like it? Do something about it.
                                                                Hear what you are saying psyko!

                                                                There are two sides to the coin... First is, some sponsors use far too much small print (chances are half of that is probably "illegal" anyway). There is nothing wrong with small print, but if it contains terminology designed to scam or manipulate affiliate traffic - that ain't good for anyone.

                                                                On the webmaster side, there are scammers as well, tho they come and go like the tide. It is not unreasonable for a sponsor to protect against scammers.

                                                                Bottom line is... if a sponsor accepts an affiliate's traffic and tries to null that but then take the benefit of that traffic and earn from it - that don't sound too reasonable! :-) Some call it fraud.

                                                                Sure.. there are two solutions, use your feet and walk along to another sponsor, else actually start a court action tho it's often hard to prove stats 100% in court and it has been known for sponsors to use that :-) Unless ya have time to waste - move on to hopefully more honest sponsors.
                                                                XXX TLD's - Another mosquito to swat.

                                                                  Comment

                                                                  • 2HousePlague
                                                                    CURATOR
                                                                    • Jul 2004
                                                                    • 14572
                                                                    #67
                                                                    Originally posted by Webby
                                                                    Battuss:

                                                                    Take up that prior stuff about AFF.

                                                                    I have no ulterior motives to recommend them other than been doing biz with them since... around 1995-96. They are one of the rare sponsors (those you can count on one hand) that are stable, have their act together and pay like clockwork.

                                                                    BTW.. Not that other sponsors are not the same as AFF - just that AFF have a track record dating back to almost the start of the "commerical net".

                                                                    Thanks, Webby. I appreciate that very much.

                                                                    Let's be in touch.

                                                                    j- (Jack Mardack, GM)

                                                                    ICQ: 222141571
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                                                                    tada!

                                                                      Comment

                                                                      • Webby
                                                                        Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                        • Oct 2002
                                                                        • 14956
                                                                        #68
                                                                        Thanks, Webby. I appreciate that very much.
                                                                        Most welcome Jack! :-)
                                                                        XXX TLD's - Another mosquito to swat.

                                                                          Comment

                                                                          • Part-timer
                                                                            Confirmed User
                                                                            • Jul 2003
                                                                            • 419
                                                                            #69
                                                                            Originally posted by Battuss
                                                                            "We don't pay for foreign traffic"

                                                                            Ok lets see what happens.

                                                                            Guy from Holland signs up for a free membership at datingsite X. Affiliate does not get credit because it's a foreigner. (although you can bet on it that datingsite X WILL use the email to spam....) So the Dutch guy browses around on the site and sees a hot chick. The Dutch guy pulls his cc and pays for a membership. You dont see a penny. So now datingsite X has a free email and got paid without having to share.

                                                                            A few weeks ago a dating site told me im sending quite some foreign traffic and i wont get credit for that. At that point i had no clue they simply let the guys in and throw a huge "click here to pay for a full membership" text in their face.

                                                                            I honestly think i lost a few 1000's in payouts this way.

                                                                            This is simply shaving. I can't find another term for it. I think its insane. Oh wait, maybe stealing is another good term to use.
                                                                            I had the same broblem but after started to send my foreigen traffic to the sponsor who gladly pay me from signups from every country, i got good increase in my signups (my sponsor convert foreign traffic very well) and same time i did not see drop in sales in my dating sponsor who pays only US traffic.
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                                                                              • BruceM
                                                                                Confirmed User
                                                                                • Jul 2001
                                                                                • 4084
                                                                                #70
                                                                                Originally posted by 2HousePlague
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                                                                                  • jimmyf
                                                                                    OU812
                                                                                    • Feb 2001
                                                                                    • 12651
                                                                                    #71
                                                                                    Originally posted by Battuss
                                                                                    Give me 1 reason why they shouldnt pay out on a brazilian dude who paid 40 bucks for his membership. Give me one good reason.
                                                                                    he just does not get it.. I'm with you 100%
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                                                                                      • AlexShark
                                                                                        Confirmed User
                                                                                        • Nov 2003
                                                                                        • 477
                                                                                        #72
                                                                                        I am with Battus.

                                                                                        A solution would be if the sponsor gave the affiliate the possibility to chose an url where to redirect the foreign traffic. This would be fair.

                                                                                        Moreover I guess the majority of women in dating sites are from East Europe.

                                                                                          Comment

                                                                                          • Dirty F
                                                                                            Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                                            • Jul 2001
                                                                                            • 59204
                                                                                            #73
                                                                                            Im amazed so few people have something to say about it.

                                                                                            Looks like i can open a program, convert your traffic and dont pay shit because something in the terms says i dont have to pay you.
                                                                                            I wonder how many people would come bitching on gfy if they didnt get their money.

                                                                                              Comment

                                                                                              • detoxed
                                                                                                vip member
                                                                                                • Jan 2003
                                                                                                • 17798
                                                                                                #74
                                                                                                well... too bad. if they dont pay for it, its in their terms, and you agree to that when you signup. its not shaving. you think the fortune 500 companies are shaving when they have certain things in their contracts with other companies?

                                                                                                of course not. so why is this shaving?
                                                                                                shaving is when someone secretly cuts a % of your sales or clicks and does not inform you of this.

                                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                                  • d00t
                                                                                                    Confirmed User
                                                                                                    • Sep 2002
                                                                                                    • 3766
                                                                                                    #75
                                                                                                    shaving is soo 1999 - real sponsors dont need to shave and I can prove it.

                                                                                                    If your sponsor is shaving, ditch them. Simple.


                                                                                                    After all, they NEED you.

                                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                                      • Odin88
                                                                                                        Confirmed User
                                                                                                        • Jul 2003
                                                                                                        • 3267
                                                                                                        #76
                                                                                                        Originally posted by Battuss
                                                                                                        Give me 1 reason why they shouldnt pay out on a brazilian dude who paid 40 bucks for his membership. Give me one good reason.
                                                                                                        Higher fraud? Higher charebacks? Less retention? I think they should be paying on more than just US traffic, but I don't blame them for ignoring Russian, etc traffic and not paying out to affiliates even if they do signup.

                                                                                                          Comment

                                                                                                          • d00t
                                                                                                            Confirmed User
                                                                                                            • Sep 2002
                                                                                                            • 3766
                                                                                                            #77
                                                                                                            Originally posted by Odin88
                                                                                                            Higher fraud? Higher charebacks? Less retention? I think they should be paying on more than just US traffic, but I don't blame them for ignoring Russian, etc traffic and not paying out to affiliates even if they do signup.
                                                                                                            Easy solution.

                                                                                                            50/50 on shady countries

                                                                                                              Comment

                                                                                                              • Odin88
                                                                                                                Confirmed User
                                                                                                                • Jul 2003
                                                                                                                • 3267
                                                                                                                #78
                                                                                                                Originally posted by d00t
                                                                                                                Easy solution.

                                                                                                                50/50 on shady countries
                                                                                                                Actually I was going to suggest that in my post above also. It is a reasonable solution for sure.

                                                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                                                  • pxxx
                                                                                                                    First African GFY Member
                                                                                                                    • Mar 2004
                                                                                                                    • 12114
                                                                                                                    #79
                                                                                                                    Originally posted by Yngwie
                                                                                                                    psyko514 makes some good points BUT what Batuss is trying to say is that why the hell should a company be allowed NOT to pay you for traffic that THEY WILL make money on? I don't care if they state that they don't pay for foreign traffic in their TOS. Not paying out for something THEY make money from is the same as stealing.

                                                                                                                    If they didn't make a single cent from the foreign traffic then it would make sense that they not pay you for it. If they will actually make money from that type of traffic then it would be fair to give a cut to the affiliate who sent it to you. Saying whatever in their TOS does not mean "We can make all the money and only pay you out for what we want at any given time"

                                                                                                                    Of course, if it was me I would stop sending traffic to them if a lot of my traffic was foreign. No point letting them cash in on YOUR work.
                                                                                                                    I was reading through the thread, and this post basically stated my thoughts.

                                                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                                                      • skillfull
                                                                                                                        Confirmed User
                                                                                                                        • Apr 2003
                                                                                                                        • 4716
                                                                                                                        #80
                                                                                                                        Originally posted by Odin88
                                                                                                                        Actually I was going to suggest that in my post above also. It is a reasonable solution for sure.

                                                                                                                        this is the ONLY solution to that


                                                                                                                        anyway, if i woudl own a sponsor, i would love too much my webmasters to steal any cents from them, just too much people who dont fucking care
                                                                                                                        mind at underdark dot cc
                                                                                                                        SEO Analyst
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                                                                                                                          Comment

                                                                                                                          • myjah
                                                                                                                            Back in the harbor
                                                                                                                            • Sep 2003
                                                                                                                            • 11482
                                                                                                                            #81
                                                                                                                            Originally posted by Soul_Rebel
                                                                                                                            Can anyone else verify that AAC doesnt credit sales for the non-US traffic on their PPS program? I've read the opposite.
                                                                                                                            AAC pays for all US verified emails if you are paid per email. We pay for ALL signups no matter where they come from.
                                                                                                                            VP of Marketing
                                                                                                                            AVN Media Network
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                                                                                                                              • psyko514
                                                                                                                                See sig. Join Epic Cash.
                                                                                                                                • Oct 2002
                                                                                                                                • 22366
                                                                                                                                #82
                                                                                                                                Originally posted by jimmyf
                                                                                                                                he just does not get it.. I'm with you 100%
                                                                                                                                I get what he's saying.

                                                                                                                                My point is there nothing that can be done about it, so why bother whining?

                                                                                                                                As Run DMC once said, "It's like that and that's the way it is".

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                                                                                                                                  • Doctor Dre
                                                                                                                                    Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                                                                                    • Jan 2001
                                                                                                                                    • 51692
                                                                                                                                    #83
                                                                                                                                    Originally posted by bdld
                                                                                                                                    perhaps so they can afford high payouts.
                                                                                                                                    The first month often pays 90 % of the payout ... dating sites are expensive
                                                                                                                                    Originally posted by rayadp05
                                                                                                                                    I rebooted, deleted temp files, history, cookies and everything...still cannot view the news clip. All I see is that fucking gay ass music video from "Rick Roll". Anyone else have a different link to the news clip?

                                                                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                                                                      • Doctor Dre
                                                                                                                                        Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                                                                                        • Jan 2001
                                                                                                                                        • 51692
                                                                                                                                        #84
                                                                                                                                        Originally posted by slapass
                                                                                                                                        You are complaining about a non issue. It is not illegal if they tell you. It is such a small percent of traffic that has your undies in a bunch I would not worry about it. Do they pay you well for your traffic. That is the question you need to answer.
                                                                                                                                        small % ?!? r u on crack ?
                                                                                                                                        Originally posted by rayadp05
                                                                                                                                        I rebooted, deleted temp files, history, cookies and everything...still cannot view the news clip. All I see is that fucking gay ass music video from "Rick Roll". Anyone else have a different link to the news clip?

                                                                                                                                          Comment

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