Epoch turn off the SCRUB!!!!!!!!!! - GoFuckYourself.com - Adult Webmaster Forum

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PR_Dave

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#1

Epoch turn off the SCRUB!!!!!!!!!!

11-22-2004, 03:41 PM

Epoch turn off the SCRUB!!!!!!!!!!

Anything using Epoch as primary is doing complete ASS this last week.

Anyone from Epoch care to respond.

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aico

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#2

11-22-2004, 04:19 PM

agreed... my epoch sale went to shit last week.
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#3

11-22-2004, 04:28 PM

I was just about to post the same thing... Only I was going to ask CCBILL what the fuck... Zero sales in two days is possible for me as an affiliate but not normal. Especially when I sent more than my usual ammount of hits to them... Something is definately up.
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#4

11-22-2004, 04:30 PM

yep....been about a week now

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#5

11-22-2004, 05:14 PM
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#6

11-22-2004, 05:19 PM

Actually sales are finally picking back up for me, first 3 weeks of November were terrible though.

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#7

11-22-2004, 05:50 PM

same here about a week ratios gone to hell
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#8

11-22-2004, 05:51 PM

They're my primary processor and I've had a few different issues with them this week.

So called "scrub" being one of them.

Spend you some brain.
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Ray@TastyDollars

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#9

11-22-2004, 07:44 PM

Im about to drop one of my biggest sponsors very very soon. Would be a shame if it were caused by some lost data or high scrubbing...or some shit like that.

ps. NA, Im not talking about you, I said one of my biggest..NOT my biggest ;)

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#10

11-22-2004, 07:50 PM

Been talking with a few different sponsors. Seems like a week after the IBill exodus the scrubbing pick up a bit in both ccbill and epoch. Our hunch is that it had to do with both of them picking up some major clients which increased their risk load. Seems to make sense as well as following the time line.

I would be lieing if I said he havent noticed a bit of a slowdown. Last week was down for sure, but now this week our sales are double what they were this time last week. Thats in both Epoch and CCbill. I'm very please with both so far this week.

Thats just a few of us program owners theory for what its worth.

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#11

11-22-2004, 07:53 PM

Sales were fucking great today

Originally posted by rayadp05

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#12

11-22-2004, 07:57 PM

Originally posted by PerfectionGirls
Been talking with a few different sponsors. Seems like a week after the IBill exodus the scrubbing pick up a bit in both ccbill and epoch. Our hunch is that it had to do with both of them picking up some major clients which increased their risk load. Seems to make sense as well as following the time line.

I would be lieing if I said he havent noticed a bit of a slowdown. Last week was down for sure, but now this week our sales are double what they were this time last week. Thats in both Epoch and CCbill. I'm very please with both so far this week.

Thats just a few of us program owners theory for what its worth.

We noticed the exact same thing here too.. The last two days rocked though

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chowda

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#13

11-22-2004, 08:09 PM

im not familiar with epoch's stats screen.. does it show how many clicks im sending?

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#14

11-22-2004, 08:33 PM

i did notice their verification process is a little tougher now, which i find to be good.. reduces fraud
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#15

11-22-2004, 08:43 PM

Scrubbing has been hellacious the last week or so. It was posted about a week ago that it was evident. This was about 6 in the evening.. within the next 6 hours though somehow sales had tripled with nary a transaction denied. Stayed ok for another day and now it's back in the shitter. Those program owners, employees and affiliates that count on transactions being approved are not getting what's due them for the hard work and effort they are putting into their promotions. It's a shame when people's earnings are controlled by a third party that's paid to process transactions and not decline the majority of them.
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#16

11-22-2004, 10:04 PM

They scrub each webmaster differently so no one can really make sense of it. They also scrub each sub account differently. I have my sites set up on a different casgade and notice it with ccbill and epoch. One day I'll get the scrub on sub 01, the next day sub 02
But keeping your sites on different casgades helps stay one step above the scrub.
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#17

11-22-2004, 10:09 PM

sales have been great here.

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#18

11-22-2004, 10:12 PM

Originally posted by Doctor Dre
Sales were fucking great today

they were great for me yesterday, normal today

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#19

11-22-2004, 10:17 PM

isn't posting this like branding yourself as someone with cheating traffic or the like?

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#20

11-22-2004, 10:27 PM

Weird shit happen sometimes with ccbill ... could have lot of traffic and good tgp post but no sign up for 3 or 4 days ... then for no reason I got 10 - 12 sign up in the same day 1 week later ! Seems that they turn off the processor for few days sometimes !

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#21

11-22-2004, 10:29 PM

anyone here know off hand if ccbill and/or Paycom will take a card from Israel?
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aico

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#22

11-22-2004, 10:38 PM

My Epoch sales today were almost better than all of last week... so something had to be up last week.

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#23

11-22-2004, 10:39 PM

why do you ask them to respond here? this isnt their website. If you want a response from them email them.

BTW just recently I have been seeing allot of signups from countries who I had not gotten signups before in the past, russia, estonia, romania and some midle eastern countries to name a few... I have alsys got signups from Israel.

Originally posted by Nutella

Anyone from Epoch care to respond.

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#24

11-22-2004, 10:41 PM

Originally posted by venus
BTW just recently I have been seeing allot of signups from countries who I had not gotten signups before in the past, russia, estonia, romania and some midle eastern countries to name a few

those are probably going to come back and bite you in the ass with a chargeback or fraud

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#25

11-22-2004, 10:47 PM

thats what I initially thought a few months ago, but they seem legit, especially a guy from Russua who has joined my site several times over the past 6 months.

for places like this I always match the IP / host name to the country given by the customer, its good for fraud screening, I have caught allot of fraud attempts by people who say they are from, say the UK, but their hostname is like in india or something.

Originally posted by Easton
those are probably going to come back and bite you in the ass with a chargeback or fraud

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#26

11-22-2004, 10:59 PM

Originally posted by SleazyDream
isn't posting this like branding yourself as someone with cheating traffic or the like?

NO. For a smart guy like you this should be obvious.
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Alex From San Diego

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#27

11-23-2004, 09:09 AM

My question to paycom is what is an acceptable percentage for decline ratios on trial joins as well as rebills?

They will never answer this question because I have posed the question in emails, phone conversations and at shows and I am still waiting.

We alll know it is a numbers game and the company that processes the most with them has, lets say the dial is turned down a bit. They compensate for them by turning the dial up for the companies that don't process quite as much and this keeps the processors merchant account under the 1% threshold

It is the pecking order or the natural progression of shit rolls down hill.

You can ask them 100 times do you have various scrubbing parameters based on the number of joins a company processes. Of course they will look at you like you are some kind of dumb ass and will regurgitate the company SOP answer for that question,

"I have no idea what you are referring to."

What is the solution to the inconsistency?

One, is to obtain your own merchant account.

Two, is to cascade multiple processors and switching prrmary and secondary on a as needed basis.

We are choosing to obtain our own merchant account and make that the primary and whatever gets declined, we will just throw what crumbs are left to the remaining 3rd party processors.

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Rand

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#28

11-23-2004, 10:03 AM

For the record......

Epoch has made NO across-the-board changes to filtering or fraud scrubbing in a very long time. Certainly not in recent days or weeks.

Overall sales are up, not down.

Some specific programs may have had adjustments made to them depending on credit/chargeback issues but that is standard operating procedure and the job of your IPSP to help sites remain within required ratios.

There are a lot of factors that can affect sales and a good majority of them have nothing to do with your IPSP. If you're seeing a decline I would look at all aspects of your business and see if you can find a commonality or trend. But I can assure you, Epoch has not tightened it's scrub. We have no reason to.

Last edited by Rand; 11-23-2004, 10:04 AM.

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#29

11-23-2004, 10:27 AM

Originally posted by venus
why do you ask them to respond here? this isnt their website. If you want a response from them email them.

A lot of the times you'll get a smarter more intellegent response here from Rand than you will by emailing support. I suppose you could just email Rand however.

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Alex From San Diego

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#30

11-23-2004, 01:04 PM

Originally posted by Rand
For the record......

Epoch has made NO across-the-board changes to filtering or fraud scrubbing in a very long time. Certainly not in recent days or weeks.

Overall sales are up, not down.

Some specific programs may have had adjustments made to them depending on credit/chargeback issues but that is standard operating procedure and the job of your IPSP to help sites remain within required ratios.

There are a lot of factors that can affect sales and a good majority of them have nothing to do with your IPSP. If you're seeing a decline I would look at all aspects of your business and see if you can find a commonality or trend. But I can assure you, Epoch has not tightened it's scrub. We have no reason to.

What are those parameters within your SOP for the "ADJUSTMENTS?"

Is it less than .003% CB ratio.

What is the Paycom formula?

As for CB and Credits, I personally think your billing support team lets the consumer walk all over them and doesn't take a strong enough stance.

Case in point:

I had a male call my office the other day and ask what this charge was on his CC. I responded with, you have joined a site of ours. Of course he said, I never joined a adult site in his life. Wanted to know how to reverse the charges. I politely said, no problem but I will have to refer this account to fraud investigation so we can identify the actual location of this transaction and hopefully it will assist you in finding the person who unlawfully used yoour credit card.

His response was, "I don't want to get anyone in trouble so please don't credit the charges back to me but can you please cancel the membership."

Would Paycom's billing support team go through that extent or would they just say sure, here is your money.

You know dam well in my case that this fool was trying to pull a fast one. How many others claim they have no idea about joining this or that paysite. My bet is half the CB and credits could be eliminated just by the billing support team doing their job.

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#31

11-23-2004, 01:53 PM

Originally posted by Alex From San Diego
What are those parameters within your SOP for the "ADJUSTMENTS?"

Is it less than .003% CB ratio.

What is the Paycom formula?

As for CB and Credits, I personally think your billing support team lets the consumer walk all over them and doesn't take a strong enough stance.

Case in point:

I had a male call my office the other day and ask what this charge was on his CC. I responded with, you have joined a site of ours. Of course he said, I never joined a adult site in his life. Wanted to know how to reverse the charges. I politely said, no problem but I will have to refer this account to fraud investigation so we can identify the actual location of this transaction and hopefully it will assist you in finding the person who unlawfully used yoour credit card.

His response was, "I don't want to get anyone in trouble so please don't credit the charges back to me but can you please cancel the membership."

Would Paycom's billing support team go through that extent or would they just say sure, here is your money.

You know dam well in my case that this fool was trying to pull a fast one. How many others claim they have no idea about joining this or that paysite. My bet is half the CB and credits could be eliminated just by the billing support team doing their job.

But surely 99% of chargebacks phone VISA.....not Paycom???
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#32

11-23-2004, 02:00 PM

Originally posted by cafeaulait
But surely 99% of chargebacks phone VISA.....not Paycom???

I think Visa's policy is for you to contact Paycom first. However, if you tell them you have and they didn't help, then Visa will pretty much charge it back. I could be wrong, I'm not 100% on this.

.
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#33

11-23-2004, 02:47 PM

Originally posted by Alex From San Diego

Case in point:

I had a male call my office the other day and ask what this charge was on his CC. I responded with, you have joined a site of ours. Of course he said, I never joined a adult site in his life. Wanted to know how to reverse the charges. I politely said, no problem but I will have to refer this account to fraud investigation so we can identify the actual location of this transaction and hopefully it will assist you in finding the person who unlawfully used yoour credit card.

His response was, "I don't want to get anyone in trouble so please don't credit the charges back to me but can you please cancel the membership."

Would Paycom's billing support team go through that extent or would they just say sure, here is your money.

You know dam well in my case that this fool was trying to pull a fast one. How many others claim they have no idea about joining this or that paysite. My bet is half the CB and credits could be eliminated just by the billing support team doing their job.

Here's an example of a credit that was given on our account. I emailed paycom about it, but their response was that he probably would have tried to charge back.

---------------------------------------
Example member id: 84747945

Customer orders at 7:16pm, and then proceeds to upgrade his membership at 7:36pm.

The customer then calls at 4:04am the next day (about 8 hours later) and inquires about a $29.11 charge on his credit card he claims he didn?t make. He didn't complain about the trial charge, only the upgrade charge.

It?s more than obvious that the customer willingly upgraded his membership (signup IP and upgrade IP match, 20 mins difference between order time and upgrade time), be he was still given a refund.
--------------------------------------

Paycom's response:

Customer someone else in the house might have done the upgrade, customer would probably have gone to his bank on the charge.

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#34

11-23-2004, 02:53 PM

Originally posted by Alex From San Diego
What are those parameters within your SOP for the "ADJUSTMENTS?"

Is it less than .003% CB ratio.

What is the Paycom formula?

Adjusting the scrub rate on a particular site has little to do with a magic number. Although, the intended goal is to remain within all required card association ratios.

The decision to adjust a scrub has more to do with seeing unusual activity paired with an increase in customer service calls and/or an increase in credits or chargebacks. It's even more than that, say for example, if the calls were about a server or technical problem, our tech suppport would be in touch with you. We wouldn't be adjusting your scrub. The specifics about why we do what we do are not going to be discussed here or anywhere else. It is our banking relationships we must maintain and our client's portfolio's that we must protect.

As for customer service, our 24/7/365 billing support center has been in operation for nearly eight years and takes thousands of calls every day. Our scripts have been adjusted, evaluated, re-adjusted, re-evaluated, improved upon and tweaked to the point that each new employee goes through a rigorous training of two weeks before they ever speak to a customer. You would have to prove it to me if you think you can find an area where Paycom's Billing Support is not doing exactly what they should be. There is always room to improve, but with the data we have, the banking relationships we've made, and countless number of phone calls we've received, I really think those guys have it down to a science.

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Rand

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#35

11-23-2004, 03:03 PM

Originally posted by Jay[neX]

Example member id: 84747945
It?s more than obvious that the customer willingly upgraded his membership (signup IP and upgrade IP match, 20 mins difference between order time and upgrade time), be he was still given a refund.

None of that makes any difference if the CSR believes that the customer will call their bank and charge back the transaction. The bank, Visa, no one wants to hear an explanation or will accept any proof otherwise because this is a card-not-present transaction. It's high risk. Coded 5967 by Visa. It is the business you are in. High-risk means high gain but it also means that not everything is fair. Then again, life isn't fair either.

If the customer charges back, you're out the charge plus the chargeback fee and you have a strike toward your ratio.

That's just the way it is.

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OWNED

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#36

11-23-2004, 03:24 PM

I agree. This is fucking bullshit.

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#37

11-23-2004, 03:36 PM

"None of that makes any difference if the CSR believes that the customer will call their bank and charge back the transaction. The bank, Visa, no one wants to hear an explanation or will accept any proof otherwise because this is a card-not-present transaction. It's high risk. Coded 5967 by Visa. It is the business you are in. High-risk means high gain but it also means that not everything is fair. Then again, life isn't fair either."

Rand is dead on the money here-
High Risk is High Risk...

and life isn't fair.

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#38

11-23-2004, 03:43 PM

Originally posted by Alex From San Diego
What are those parameters within your SOP for the "ADJUSTMENTS?"

Is it less than .003% CB ratio.

What is the Paycom formula?

As for CB and Credits, I personally think your billing support team lets the consumer walk all over them and doesn't take a strong enough stance.

Case in point:

I had a male call my office the other day and ask what this charge was on his CC. I responded with, you have joined a site of ours. Of course he said, I never joined a adult site in his life. Wanted to know how to reverse the charges. I politely said, no problem but I will have to refer this account to fraud investigation so we can identify the actual location of this transaction and hopefully it will assist you in finding the person who unlawfully used yoour credit card.

His response was, "I don't want to get anyone in trouble so please don't credit the charges back to me but can you please cancel the membership."

Would Paycom's billing support team go through that extent or would they just say sure, here is your money.

You know dam well in my case that this fool was trying to pull a fast one. How many others claim they have no idea about joining this or that paysite. My bet is half the CB and credits could be eliminated just by the billing support team doing their job.

We have an IP address on everyone that should be used as a scare tactic for those who want credit or chargeback. Just a thought

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Rand

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#39

11-23-2004, 04:09 PM

Originally posted by Pornkings
We have an IP address on everyone that should be used as a scare tactic for those who want credit or chargeback. Just a thought

Yes. We track IP's as well and we incorporate that into our scripting for customer service. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. There are other things we use as well that make people reconsider calling a charge fraudulent. A cancellation is much better than a credit or chargeback.

Last edited by Rand; 11-23-2004, 04:11 PM.

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