Democrats must read!

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  • Libertine
    sex dwarf
    • May 2002
    • 17860

    #101
    About the numbers CET quoted: if what I think is going on here is correct, the numbers are utterly useless.

    It looks like the book he quoted used a set standard of $10M net worth for defining wealth.
    If that is indeed the case, one only has to take a quick look at the time period between the measurement of parents' net worth and that of their millionaire children. Let's put that at an average of 20 years, shall we?
    The book he's talking about is from 1998, I believe, so let's say the parents' status of "wealthy" or not was based on their net worth in 1978, and that of the wealthy children on numbers from 1998.

    $10M in 1998 has the same purchasing power as ~$4M in 1978. So, if you take $10M+ for the parents in 1978 as a standard of being "wealthy", you should use $25M+ as the standard for defining "wealthy" in 1998. Otherwise, equal or even diminished purchasing power combined with inflation will have created most of the "first generation wealthy".


    This is just one possibility - although one that seems quite likely right now - but it clearly shows why most numbers from either side can't be taken for face value without knowing the research method and such.
    /(bb|[^b]{2})/

    Comment

    • SultryMal
      Registered User
      • Sep 2004
      • 80

      #102
      Originally posted by Repetitive Monkey
      Let me give YOU some baby talk.

      No one is prevented from being successful if they have the work ethic and/or intelligence to back it up. No one can BUY laws. EVERYONE have the right to influence people monetarily or otherwise to politically campaign for them. It is NOT illegal or immoral to do something just because there are a few losers who are not able to also do it unless they put some work in.
      exactly

      Comment

      • SultryMal
        Registered User
        • Sep 2004
        • 80

        #103
        Originally posted by Repetitive Monkey
        S/he was making a point. Of course Democrats don't want to literally "punish" someone for being financially successful, but certainly they want to treat them negatively in way that others are not (higher tax percentages).
        thats, right, thank you, i wasnt being completely literal, this is just a simple story that can show the most basic form of what most democrats want, higher tax percentages for the rich

        Comment

        • bringer
          i have man boobies
          • Jul 2003
          • 13082

          #104
          Originally posted by SultryMal
          thats, right, thank you, i wasnt being completely literal, this is just a simple story that can show the most basic form of what most democrats want, higher tax percentages for the rich
          both sides play the games and someone always gets fucked
          333-765-551

          Comment

          • CET
            Confirmed User
            • Jul 2003
            • 2754

            #105
            Originally posted by BRISK
            Australia does have a bad history of racism
            Do you have a large population of black people? Were they enslaved for 200 years followed by another 100 years of legislated racism and groups like the KKK?
            Alt Journals, Blogs for Perverts!

            Fitness and nutrition writer, and UNIX/Linux Sys Ad in training

            "Just as a man who has fallen into a heap of filth ought to seek the great pond of water covered with lotuses, which is near by: even so seek thou for the great deathless lake of Nirvana to wash off the defilement of wrong. If the lake is not sought, it is not the fault of the lake."

            Comment

            • bringer
              i have man boobies
              • Jul 2003
              • 13082

              #106
              Originally posted by CET
              Do you have a large population of black people? Were they enslaved for 200 years followed by another 100 years of legislated racism and groups like the KKK?
              cry me a riverrrr
              333-765-551

              Comment

              • CET
                Confirmed User
                • Jul 2003
                • 2754

                #107
                Originally posted by punkworld
                So, someone whose parents had a net worth of, say, 5 million, is counted as "first generation wealthy" if he reaches $10M+?

                The line has to be drawn somewhere and that's simply where this author chose to draw the line of "wealthy". I've already been through this, and if you still don't get it then you're just being willfully ignorant.
                Alt Journals, Blogs for Perverts!

                Fitness and nutrition writer, and UNIX/Linux Sys Ad in training

                "Just as a man who has fallen into a heap of filth ought to seek the great pond of water covered with lotuses, which is near by: even so seek thou for the great deathless lake of Nirvana to wash off the defilement of wrong. If the lake is not sought, it is not the fault of the lake."

                Comment

                • CET
                  Confirmed User
                  • Jul 2003
                  • 2754

                  #108
                  Originally posted by punkworld
                  About the numbers CET quoted: if what I think is going on here is correct, the numbers are utterly useless.

                  It looks like the book he quoted used a set standard of $10M net worth for defining wealth.
                  If that is indeed the case, one only has to take a quick look at the time period between the measurement of parents' net worth and that of their millionaire children. Let's put that at an average of 20 years, shall we?
                  The book he's talking about is from 1998, I believe, so let's say the parents' status of "wealthy" or not was based on their net worth in 1978, and that of the wealthy children on numbers from 1998.

                  $10M in 1998 has the same purchasing power as ~$4M in 1978. So, if you take $10M+ for the parents in 1978 as a standard of being "wealthy", you should use $25M+ as the standard for defining "wealthy" in 1998. Otherwise, equal or even diminished purchasing power combined with inflation will have created most of the "first generation wealthy".


                  This is just one possibility - although one that seems quite likely right now - but it clearly shows why most numbers from either side can't be taken for face value without knowing the research method and such.
                  How about you stop talking out of your ass and actually read the book instead of sitting around trying to shoot down something that you know nothing about. I quote a couple of statistics from it, you decide you don't like it and therefore it must be discredited. How about you get off your ass and GO READ IT! Only then will you be able to speak about it with ANY authority.
                  Alt Journals, Blogs for Perverts!

                  Fitness and nutrition writer, and UNIX/Linux Sys Ad in training

                  "Just as a man who has fallen into a heap of filth ought to seek the great pond of water covered with lotuses, which is near by: even so seek thou for the great deathless lake of Nirvana to wash off the defilement of wrong. If the lake is not sought, it is not the fault of the lake."

                  Comment

                  • Libertine
                    sex dwarf
                    • May 2002
                    • 17860

                    #109
                    Originally posted by CET
                    How about you stop talking out of your ass and actually read the book instead of sitting around trying to shoot down something that you know nothing about. I quote a couple of statistics from it, you decide you don't like it and therefore it must be discredited. How about you get off your ass and GO READ IT! Only then will you be able to speak about it with ANY authority.
                    I don't want to speak about your book with any authority. I don't care about the book, actually. I am not planning on reading it, simply because I currently have a list of several hundreds of books I still have to read.

                    What I am responding to are your statements. You use a random number from a random book as an authorative source, yet fail to give a rough outline of the research method used, and your only comments on the definitions used imply a major flaw in that method.


                    I can get almost any random statistical number I want on any subject whatsoever from some book written by some professor somewhere in the world. For example, this week, I read in a book by an American professor in sociology that my country is racially almost entirely homogenous.
                    /(bb|[^b]{2})/

                    Comment

                    • Wolfy
                      Confirmed User
                      • Dec 2003
                      • 3574

                      #110
                      Originally posted by playa
                      that's a crappy analogy. It's not as simple as that.

                      remember when Kerry's wife put up her tax returns?
                      She only paid 15%.
                      actually - it was less than 13%, like 12.8 or so.

                      2.2 points makes a big difference when you are paying on over 5 Mil.

                      Comment

                      • Libertine
                        sex dwarf
                        • May 2002
                        • 17860

                        #111
                        Originally posted by CET
                        The line has to be drawn somewhere and that's simply where this author chose to draw the line of "wealthy". I've already been through this, and if you still don't get it then you're just being willfully ignorant.
                        The line has to be drawn somewhere, yes. However, drawing that line at a certain amount of money without any other specifications is fairly stupid.

                        First of all, relative wealth is a much more important factor in determining mobility within society (and that was the context in which you quoted the statistic) than absolute wealth, for obvious reasons. So, a better line would be "the richest 10%", or something of the sort.
                        Secondly, determining absolute wealth by a set amount of money instead of inflation-corrected purchasing power is positively bizarre.


                        If you're gonna use statistics as arguments, you should be able to explain and justify them as well.


                        I think the problem isn't that I'm being willfully ignorant, but that you're being unintentionally ignorant.
                        /(bb|[^b]{2})/

                        Comment

                        • Dynamix
                          G F Y not
                          • Jan 2004
                          • 2910

                          #112
                          Regardless of whether a person inherits their wealth of works for it, the point still remains: Everyone has and has had the same opportunity to be wealthy for quite some time now.

                          Second-generation wealth still comes from a first-generation who was more ambitious than a poor second-generation's parents.

                          No one will ever convince me that in today's day and age they weren't given the full opportunity so suceed, regardless of race.

                          TGPFactory Full TGP Design & Installation Services
                          ICQ 250 142 484 · AIM TGPDynamix · Email: patrick (at) tgpfactory (dot) com
                          See who I am at AdultWhosWho.com!

                          Comment

                          • Joe Citizen
                            Confirmed User
                            • Oct 2003
                            • 4552

                            #113
                            Originally posted by Dynamix
                            Regardless of whether a person inherits their wealth of works for it, the point still remains: Everyone has and has had the same opportunity to be wealthy for quite some time now.


                            This equal oportunity stuff just keeps on making me laugh.

                            Is this what they teach you Americans in school?

                            From the people who brought you 'liberty and justice for all' comes 'equal opportunity'!
                            Last edited by Joe Citizen; 11-06-2004, 03:12 PM.

                            Comment

                            • Dead13
                              Confirmed User
                              • Mar 2003
                              • 477

                              #114
                              The argument is silly.

                              If you made your money in America you will honor your country and pay your fair share. Fair share for the rich is much higher than fair share for the poor, so either get over it and honor the country that gave you the opportunity to make your money or simply move out.

                              Out of the 30 strongest nations in the world, in their rankings of taxes, America is 29th out of 30. Americans pay the second lowest taxes in the world amongst the 30 strongest nations in it.

                              30 is Mexico and I assume things are not going so well there since they get shot up everyday trying to escape over our border.

                              Anyone who argues about paying their taxes is simply ignorant and obviously has no idea how the real world is operated.

                              United we stand divided we fall, if we all do not pay our fair share this country will fall, plain and simple.

                              Maybe you assholes who do not want to pay your share of taxes can move to Mexico.

                              Comment

                              • Dead13
                                Confirmed User
                                • Mar 2003
                                • 477

                                #115
                                Originally posted by Dynamix
                                Regardless of whether a person inherits their wealth of works for it, the point still remains: Everyone has and has had the same opportunity to be wealthy for quite some time now.

                                Second-generation wealth still comes from a first-generation who was more ambitious than a poor second-generation's parents.

                                No one will ever convince me that in today's day and age they weren't given the full opportunity so suceed, regardless of race.

                                What are you 12? I'd highly suggest you research that theory a little bit more and look further than your own backyard while doing so.

                                Comment

                                • BRISK
                                  Too lazy to set a custom title
                                  • Feb 2003
                                  • 12240

                                  #116
                                  Originally posted by CET
                                  Do you have a large population of black people? Were they enslaved for 200 years followed by another 100 years of legislated racism and groups like the KKK?
                                  Are those the only factors that would determine that Australia has a bad history of racism?
                                  I post on GFY so that when people ask me what I do,
                                  I can tell them that I work with the mentally retarded.

                                  Comment

                                  • Head
                                    Confirmed User
                                    • Nov 2003
                                    • 8278

                                    #117
                                    Spreading the wealth in that fashion is a very far left idea and most liberals won't go for something like that.

                                    Comment

                                    • tony299
                                      lurker
                                      • Aug 2002
                                      • 57021

                                      #118
                                      Originally posted by 2HousePlague
                                      What if the bitch with the high grades got them because her daddy paid off the dean of the college, and the girl with bad grades got them because there was no math or science taught in her elementary school only home ec and shop?

                                      My friend, the problem with repubicans is that they want to keep what they DID NOT earn and equate "having" with "entitlement to have", such that anyone who does not have, shouldn't.


                                      j-
                                      Thank you they always try to make it on simple terms and its not simple. Also most of them dont pay their fair share to begin with.

                                      Comment

                                      • bringer
                                        i have man boobies
                                        • Jul 2003
                                        • 13082

                                        #119
                                        Originally posted by Joe Citizen


                                        This equal oportunity stuff just keeps on making me laugh.

                                        Is this what they teach you Americans in school?

                                        From the people who brought you 'liberty and justice for all' comes 'equal opportunity'!
                                        everyone has equal opportunity in this country, only different obstacles. it might be true someone coming from a rich family can get there faster and easier, but it doesnt mean a poor person cant make it there aswell. i know from reading your posts you hate this country, so if you believe this or not you will still disagree in a poor attempt to belittle us.
                                        333-765-551

                                        Comment

                                        • Joe Citizen
                                          Confirmed User
                                          • Oct 2003
                                          • 4552

                                          #120
                                          Originally posted by bringer
                                          everyone has equal opportunity in this country, only different obstacles. it might be true someone coming from a rich family can get there faster and easier, but it doesnt mean a poor person cant make it there aswell. i know from reading your posts you hate this country, so if you believe this or not you will still disagree in a poor attempt to belittle us.
                                          Wake up and take a look around.

                                          You are a victim of propaganda.

                                          Comment

                                          • bringer
                                            i have man boobies
                                            • Jul 2003
                                            • 13082

                                            #121
                                            Originally posted by Joe Citizen
                                            Wake up and take a look around.

                                            You are a victim of propaganda.
                                            no, it is you who has fallen victim to propaganda. you dont even live in this country so dont tell me what can and can not be achieved.
                                            333-765-551

                                            Comment

                                            • Ad3pt
                                              Confirmed User
                                              • Aug 2002
                                              • 476

                                              #122
                                              Originally posted by Dead13
                                              I assume things are not going so well there since they get shot up everyday trying to escape over our border.
                                              This is so not true. The fucking mexican gov't tries to sue the US because we don't have water along their migration trails. The illegals forget to bring the basic necessities for survival. some and die from dehydration and the others from hypothermia. Most certainly not from getting shot by our border patrol.
                                              Don't look here for the joke. It's in your pants.

                                              South O - World Class surfer destination since 2001.

                                              Comment

                                              • Joe Citizen
                                                Confirmed User
                                                • Oct 2003
                                                • 4552

                                                #123
                                                Originally posted by bringer
                                                no, it is you who has fallen victim to propaganda. you dont even live in this country so do`nt tell me what can and can not be achieved.
                                                I guess saying that pledge of alliegence over and over again really has warped your brain.

                                                And, no I don't live in the USA but I've spent six months there.

                                                I've seen all I need to see.

                                                Comment

                                                • Wolfy
                                                  Confirmed User
                                                  • Dec 2003
                                                  • 3574

                                                  #124
                                                  Originally posted by Joe Citizen
                                                  Wake up and take a look around.

                                                  You are a victim of propaganda.
                                                  I make over 100k a year and I did not graduate high school, nor am I a genious. I make my money because I work my ass off and I want it, and I don't fall prey to the pessimist attitude that most people let rule their lives after a few (or many, who cares?) encounters with difficulty.

                                                  You're right - he is a victim of propaganda. If he's anything like me he is also living that propaganda. Why aren't you?

                                                  Comment

                                                  • bringer
                                                    i have man boobies
                                                    • Jul 2003
                                                    • 13082

                                                    #125
                                                    Originally posted by Joe Citizen
                                                    I guess saying that pledge of alliegence over and over again really has warped your brain.

                                                    And, no I don't live in the USA but I've spent six months there.

                                                    I've seen all I need to see.
                                                    im glad you didnt like it here, i hope you never return. we need less idiots in this country, and you leaving was a start in the right direction.
                                                    333-765-551

                                                    Comment

                                                    • BRISK
                                                      Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                      • Feb 2003
                                                      • 12240

                                                      #126
                                                      I think we're all probably victims of propaganda.
                                                      I post on GFY so that when people ask me what I do,
                                                      I can tell them that I work with the mentally retarded.

                                                      Comment

                                                      • Joe Citizen
                                                        Confirmed User
                                                        • Oct 2003
                                                        • 4552

                                                        #127
                                                        Originally posted by BRISK
                                                        I think we're all probably victims of propaganda.
                                                        Some are just more brainwashed than others.

                                                        I classify anyone who believes in a laughable concept such as 'equal opportunity' as extremely brainwashed.

                                                        Comment

                                                        • Joe Citizen
                                                          Confirmed User
                                                          • Oct 2003
                                                          • 4552

                                                          #128
                                                          Originally posted by Wolfy
                                                          I make over 100k a year and I did not graduate high school, nor am I a genious. I make my money because I work my ass off and I want it, and I don't fall prey to the pessimist attitude that most people let rule their lives after a few (or many, who cares?) encounters with difficulty.

                                                          You're right - he is a victim of propaganda. If he's anything like me he is also living that propaganda. Why aren't you?
                                                          The delusionals are out running wild today.

                                                          Yes, just because you did okay that means there's equal opportunity.

                                                          Tell me, are you white? How much money did your parents make?

                                                          Comment

                                                          • bringer
                                                            i have man boobies
                                                            • Jul 2003
                                                            • 13082

                                                            #129
                                                            Originally posted by Joe Citizen
                                                            Some are just more brainwashed than others.

                                                            I classify anyone who believes in a laughable concept such as 'equal opportunity' as extremely brainwashed.
                                                            you keep saying that yet you dont give any examples of how its not the case. you think anyone who makes over 80k/year comes from a rich family? the ones who cant do it are the ones who are brainwashed. they dont even try because their community leaders tell them they dont have a chance because of where they live or the color of their skin.
                                                            333-765-551

                                                            Comment

                                                            • Libertine
                                                              sex dwarf
                                                              • May 2002
                                                              • 17860

                                                              #130
                                                              Originally posted by Joe Citizen
                                                              Some are just more brainwashed than others.

                                                              I classify anyone who believes in a laughable concept such as 'equal opportunity' as extremely brainwashed.
                                                              The concept of "equal opportunity" is indeed ridiculous, but it can easily be replaced by a concept of "sufficient opportunity". People don't need equal opportunity in life to be responsible for their own actions.
                                                              /(bb|[^b]{2})/

                                                              Comment

                                                              • Ad3pt
                                                                Confirmed User
                                                                • Aug 2002
                                                                • 476

                                                                #131
                                                                Originally posted by Joe Citizen
                                                                The delusionals are out running wild today.

                                                                Yes, just because you did okay that means there's equal opportunity.

                                                                Tell me, are you white? How much money did your parents make?
                                                                Joe, are the the offspring of an Aborigine and a marsupial? You, freak, are a disgrace to your country. You should just shut your piehole and move along. If you had some type of business in your sig i could understand why your talking so much shit. But you don't. So, what's your excuse? Did our troops off your family in Iraq?

                                                                BTW, where did you visit the states that makes you such an authority on our way of life?
                                                                Don't look here for the joke. It's in your pants.

                                                                South O - World Class surfer destination since 2001.

                                                                Comment

                                                                • Joe Citizen
                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                  • Oct 2003
                                                                  • 4552

                                                                  #132
                                                                  Originally posted by bringer
                                                                  you keep saying that yet you dont give any examples of how its not the case. you think anyone who makes over 80k/year comes from a rich family? the ones who cant do it are the ones who are brainwashed. they dont even try because their community leaders tell them they dont have a chance because of where they live or the color of their skin.
                                                                  You have shitty public schools in poor areas and better ones for the richer white kids.

                                                                  You have kids having to deal with drug addicted or abusive parents or guardians and having no choice in the matter.

                                                                  You have a society consumed by racism

                                                                  You live in a world of nepotism and old boys clubs.

                                                                  As I stated before in this thread. Anyone who believes that a child born to a poor, black, crack addicted single mother has the same opportunity as a child born to a wealthy, privileged, connected family is completely and utterly brainwashed.

                                                                  The concept of equal opportunity is a joke. The fact that you believe it makes you a joke.
                                                                  Last edited by Joe Citizen; 11-06-2004, 04:18 PM.

                                                                  Comment

                                                                  • Libertine
                                                                    sex dwarf
                                                                    • May 2002
                                                                    • 17860

                                                                    #133
                                                                    Originally posted by bringer
                                                                    you keep saying that yet you dont give any examples of how its not the case. you think anyone who makes over 80k/year comes from a rich family? the ones who cant do it are the ones who are brainwashed. they dont even try because their community leaders tell them they dont have a chance because of where they live or the color of their skin.
                                                                    When you say that "they don't even try because their community leaders tell them they don't have a chance", you are actually giving a very strong argument for his position.
                                                                    /(bb|[^b]{2})/

                                                                    Comment

                                                                    • Joe Citizen
                                                                      Confirmed User
                                                                      • Oct 2003
                                                                      • 4552

                                                                      #134
                                                                      Originally posted by Ad3pt
                                                                      Joe, are the the offspring of an Aborigine and a marsupial? You, freak, are a disgrace to your country. You should just shut your piehole and move along. If you had some type of business in your sig i could understand why your talking so much shit. But you don't. So, what's your excuse? Did our troops off your family in Iraq?

                                                                      BTW, where did you visit the states that makes you such an authority on our way of life?
                                                                      I've seen New York, L.A., Las Vegas and I've been up and down the coast of Florida from Key West to St. Augustine.

                                                                      So I've seen enough.

                                                                      What have you seen outside your country?

                                                                      Comment

                                                                      • Ad3pt
                                                                        Confirmed User
                                                                        • Aug 2002
                                                                        • 476

                                                                        #135
                                                                        Originally posted by Joe Citizen
                                                                        You have shitty public schools in poor areas and better ones for the richer white kids.

                                                                        You have kids having to deal with drug addicted or abusive parents or guardians and having no choice in the matter.

                                                                        You have a society consumed by racism

                                                                        You live in a world of nepotism and old boys clubs.

                                                                        As I sated before in this thread. Anyone who believes that a child born to a poor, black, crack addicted single mother has the same opportunity as a child born to a wealthy, privileged, connected family is completely and utterly brainwashed.

                                                                        The concept of equal opportunity is a joke. The fact that you believe it makes you a joke.
                                                                        Joe doesn't get out much. These conditions are everywhere.
                                                                        Don't look here for the joke. It's in your pants.

                                                                        South O - World Class surfer destination since 2001.

                                                                        Comment

                                                                        • Joe Citizen
                                                                          Confirmed User
                                                                          • Oct 2003
                                                                          • 4552

                                                                          #136
                                                                          Originally posted by punkworld
                                                                          The concept of "equal opportunity" is indeed ridiculous, but it can easily be replaced by a concept of "sufficient opportunity". People don't need equal opportunity in life to be responsible for their own actions.
                                                                          I agree with you and believe that the cornerstones of "sufficient opportunity" should be a well funded and effective public school system and a well funded and effective publichealth system.

                                                                          The USA has neither.

                                                                          Comment

                                                                          • Joe Citizen
                                                                            Confirmed User
                                                                            • Oct 2003
                                                                            • 4552

                                                                            #137
                                                                            Originally posted by Ad3pt
                                                                            Joe doesn't get out much. These conditions are everywhere.
                                                                            I don't remember saying that anywhere has 'equal opportunity'.

                                                                            Comment

                                                                            • bringer
                                                                              i have man boobies
                                                                              • Jul 2003
                                                                              • 13082

                                                                              #138
                                                                              Originally posted by Joe Citizen
                                                                              You have shitty public schools in poor areas and better ones for the richer white kids.

                                                                              You have kids having to deal with drug addicted or abusive parents or guardians and having no choice in the matter.

                                                                              You have a society consumed by racism

                                                                              You live in a world of nepotism and old boys clubs.

                                                                              As I sated before in this thread. Anyone who believes that a child born to a poor, black, crack addicted single mother has the same opportunity as a child born to a wealthy, privileged, connected family is completely and utterly brainwashed.

                                                                              The concept of equal opportunity is a joke. The fact that you believe it makes you a joke.
                                                                              yet people prove you wrong everyday. you think there isnt one person whos grown up in every one of your examples and made it? when people like you keep telling them they cant make it, they start to believe it and give up hope which lands them exactly where they are, nowhere. if one person made it threw your obstacle course, it would only prove that they have the oppertunity to make it. most may have a hard road to suceed, but the road isnt open to only rich white kids who two parents
                                                                              333-765-551

                                                                              Comment

                                                                              • Probono
                                                                                Confirmed User
                                                                                • Oct 2002
                                                                                • 2731

                                                                                #139
                                                                                Once more with a radical perspective.

                                                                                The rich cannot be rich without the sweat of the poor. That has never changer. Teresa Heinz Kerry does not manufacture ketchup, thousands of working people manufacture ketchup using their sweat and the capital of those who own stock in Heinz. That is the upper and the middle class.

                                                                                Do remember the primary goal of Heniz is not ketchuip manufturing but returning a good rate of return on the capital, dividends to shareholders. To do that they will pay as little as possible to manufacture the ketchup. So if there are people in timbuktu willing to work for these and freight, tarriffs and other economic forces make it more profitable to make ketchup in Timbuktu that is where they will built a plant. The only mitigating factor is government incentive to keep the jobs at home.

                                                                                Wealth is the essence of a capitalistic society and without it would would have some more egalitarian system. Unfortunately no other system seems to work.

                                                                                Even the Romans recognized the need for bread and circuses. If you forget the poor and they have no way to eat they will sieze the ketchup factory and eat fat greedy cat with lots of ketchup.

                                                                                It takes some recognition of reality to maintain social stability.

                                                                                Comment

                                                                                • media
                                                                                  Confirmed Moneymaker
                                                                                  • Apr 2002
                                                                                  • 9853

                                                                                  #140
                                                                                  Originally posted by MrPheer
                                                                                  Even though I agree with that and I'm in the top tax bracket.. I'd give up my tax cut if we could get that idiot out of the white house.
                                                                                  Agreed..

                                                                                  You also have to give large to live large.. Most people tend to forget that tazes goto schools, communities, and helping our country prosper..

                                                                                  You are paying taxes so that our country can continue to produce high educated people that you may be able to one day have on your staff.. Or you are helping pay for your friends college costs so that the tuition costs stay lower than they would without that tax money not coming in..

                                                                                  It surprises me how so many people in the upper brackets only think of their own wallet when it comes to society as a whole..

                                                                                  In the state of Oregon they proposed a tax that on average for everyone would have cost $150 per person per year. This tax failed and I now pay $1000 extra dollars per year on my wifes college tuition rather than $150 per year in tax...

                                                                                  Tax issues are touchy, I hate paying taxes, but I know that we have them for a good reason in the end..
                                                                                  I'm here for the violence!

                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                  • bringer
                                                                                    i have man boobies
                                                                                    • Jul 2003
                                                                                    • 13082

                                                                                    #141
                                                                                    Originally posted by punkworld
                                                                                    When you say that "they don't even try because their community leaders tell them they don't have a chance", you are actually giving a very strong argument for his position.
                                                                                    how so? because people put their trust in people that dont have their best interests at heart? just because jessie jackson says a poor black child who has no father figure cant make it doesnt make it true.
                                                                                    333-765-551

                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                    • Libertine
                                                                                      sex dwarf
                                                                                      • May 2002
                                                                                      • 17860

                                                                                      #142
                                                                                      Originally posted by Probono
                                                                                      Once more with a radical perspective.

                                                                                      The rich cannot be rich without the sweat of the poor. That has never changer. Teresa Heinz Kerry does not manufacture ketchup, thousands of working people manufacture ketchup using their sweat and the capital of those who own stock in Heinz. That is the upper and the middle class.

                                                                                      Do remember the primary goal of Heniz is not ketchuip manufturing but returning a good rate of return on the capital, dividends to shareholders. To do that they will pay as little as possible to manufacture the ketchup. So if there are people in timbuktu willing to work for these and freight, tarriffs and other economic forces make it more profitable to make ketchup in Timbuktu that is where they will built a plant. The only mitigating factor is government incentive to keep the jobs at home.

                                                                                      Wealth is the essence of a capitalistic society and without it would would have some more egalitarian system. Unfortunately no other system seems to work.

                                                                                      Even the Romans recognized the need for bread and circuses. If you forget the poor and they have no way to eat they will sieze the ketchup factory and eat fat greedy cat with lots of ketchup.

                                                                                      It takes some recognition of reality to maintain social stability.
                                                                                      Good post
                                                                                      /(bb|[^b]{2})/

                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                      • BRISK
                                                                                        Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                                        • Feb 2003
                                                                                        • 12240

                                                                                        #143
                                                                                        Originally posted by media
                                                                                        Tax issues are touchy, I hate paying taxes, but I know that we have them for a good reason in the end..
                                                                                        Taxes might exist for good reasons, but whether they're being spent on good reasons is another story.
                                                                                        I post on GFY so that when people ask me what I do,
                                                                                        I can tell them that I work with the mentally retarded.

                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                        • Joe Citizen
                                                                                          Confirmed User
                                                                                          • Oct 2003
                                                                                          • 4552

                                                                                          #144
                                                                                          Originally posted by bringer
                                                                                          yet people prove you wrong everyday. you think there isnt one person whos grown up in every one of your examples and made it? when people like you keep telling them they cant make it, they start to believe it and give up hope which lands them exactly where they are, nowhere. if one person made it threw your obstacle course, it would only prove that they have the oppertunity to make it. most may have a hard road to suceed, but the road isnt open to only rich white kids who two parents
                                                                                          Some people escape their circumstances yes... but not many.

                                                                                          I don't deny that it is possible for some to achieve great things against all odds but it is the exception rather than the rule.

                                                                                          Just please stop speaking shit about 'equal opportunity' because it's a ridiculous concept.

                                                                                          Comment

                                                                                          • AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE
                                                                                            best designer on GFY
                                                                                            • Mar 2003
                                                                                            • 30307

                                                                                            #145
                                                                                            Some say the end is near.
                                                                                            Some say we?ll see Armageddon soon.
                                                                                            I certainly hope we will.
                                                                                            I sure could use a vacation from this

                                                                                            Bullshit three ring circus sideshow of
                                                                                            Freaks

                                                                                            Here in this hopeless fucking hole we call LA
                                                                                            The only way to fix it is to flush it all away.
                                                                                            Any fucking time. Any fucking day.
                                                                                            Learn to swim, I?ll see you down in Arizona bay.

                                                                                            Fret for your figure and
                                                                                            Fret for your latte and
                                                                                            Fret for your lawsuit and
                                                                                            Fret for your hairpiece and
                                                                                            Fret for your prozac and
                                                                                            Fret for your pilot and
                                                                                            Fret for your contract and
                                                                                            Fret for your car.
                                                                                            It?s a
                                                                                            Bullshit three ring circus sideshow of
                                                                                            Freaks

                                                                                            Here in this hopeless fucking hole we call LA
                                                                                            The only way to fix it is to flush it all away.
                                                                                            Any fucking time. Any fucking day.
                                                                                            Learn to swim, I?ll see you down in Arizona bay.

                                                                                            Some say a comet will fall from the sky.
                                                                                            Followed by meteor showers and tidal waves.
                                                                                            Followed by faultlines that cannot sit still.
                                                                                            Followed by millions of dumbfounded dipshits.

                                                                                            Some say the end is near.
                                                                                            Some say we?ll see armageddon soon.
                                                                                            I certainly hope we will cuz
                                                                                            I sure could use a vacation from this

                                                                                            Silly shit, stupid shit...

                                                                                            One great big festering neon distraction,
                                                                                            I?ve a suggestion to keep you all occupied.

                                                                                            Learn to swim.

                                                                                            Mom?s gonna fix it all soon.
                                                                                            Mom?s comin? round to put it back the way it ought to be.

                                                                                            Learn to swim.

                                                                                            Fuck L Ron Hubbard and
                                                                                            Fuck all his clones.
                                                                                            Fuck all those gun-toting
                                                                                            Hip gangster wannabes.

                                                                                            Learn to swim.

                                                                                            Fuck retro anything.
                                                                                            Fuck your tattoos.
                                                                                            Fuck all you junkies and
                                                                                            Fuck your short memory.

                                                                                            Learn to swim.

                                                                                            Fuck smiley glad-hands
                                                                                            With hidden agendas.
                                                                                            Fuck these dysfunctional,
                                                                                            Insecure actresses.

                                                                                            Learn to swim.

                                                                                            Cuz I?m praying for rain
                                                                                            And I?m praying for tidal waves
                                                                                            I wanna see the ground give way.
                                                                                            I wanna watch it all go down.
                                                                                            Mom please flush it all away.
                                                                                            I wanna watch it go right in and down.
                                                                                            I wanna watch it go right in.
                                                                                            Watch you flush it all away.

                                                                                            Time to bring it down again.
                                                                                            Don?t just call me pessimist.
                                                                                            Try and read between the lines.
                                                                                            I can?t imagine why you wouldn?t
                                                                                            Welcome any change, my friend.

                                                                                            I wanna see it all come down.

                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                            • Wolfy
                                                                                              Confirmed User
                                                                                              • Dec 2003
                                                                                              • 3574

                                                                                              #146
                                                                                              Originally posted by Joe Citizen
                                                                                              The delusionals are out running wild today.

                                                                                              Yes, just because you did okay that means there's equal opportunity.

                                                                                              Tell me, are you white? How much money did your parents make?
                                                                                              Yeah, I am white... that should be fairly apparent from my sig. My parents made and still make shit, I make more than both of them and one of my uncles combined.

                                                                                              Is it hard to succeed? You're fucking right it is.

                                                                                              Does that mean the opportunity is not there?

                                                                                              For the record I know just as many blacks as whites who have come out of poverty in the exact same way I did. Hard work and a belief.

                                                                                              Comment

                                                                                              • bringer
                                                                                                i have man boobies
                                                                                                • Jul 2003
                                                                                                • 13082

                                                                                                #147
                                                                                                Originally posted by Joe Citizen
                                                                                                Some people escape their circumstances yes... but not many.

                                                                                                I don't deny that it is possible for some to achieve great things against all odds but it is the exception rather than the rule.

                                                                                                Just please stop speaking shit about 'equal opportunity' because it's a ridiculous concept.
                                                                                                if they didnt have an equal opportunity to make it in america escape would be impossible. how can they do something that you say cant be done? you confuse equal opportunity with equal privilege, which is something that doesnt exist anywhere.
                                                                                                Last edited by bringer; 11-06-2004, 04:35 PM.
                                                                                                333-765-551

                                                                                                Comment

                                                                                                • Wolfy
                                                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                                                  • Dec 2003
                                                                                                  • 3574

                                                                                                  #148
                                                                                                  Originally posted by AlienQ
                                                                                                  Some say the end is near.
                                                                                                  Some say we?ll see Armageddon soon.
                                                                                                  I certainly hope we will.
                                                                                                  I sure could use a vacation from this

                                                                                                  Bullshit three ring circus sideshow of
                                                                                                  Freaks

                                                                                                  Here in this hopeless fucking hole we call LA
                                                                                                  The only way to fix it is to flush it all away.
                                                                                                  Any fucking time. Any fucking day.
                                                                                                  Learn to swim, I?ll see you down in Arizona bay.

                                                                                                  Fret for your figure and
                                                                                                  Fret for your latte and
                                                                                                  Fret for your lawsuit and
                                                                                                  Fret for your hairpiece and
                                                                                                  Fret for your prozac and
                                                                                                  Fret for your pilot and
                                                                                                  Fret for your contract and
                                                                                                  Fret for your car.
                                                                                                  It?s a
                                                                                                  Bullshit three ring circus sideshow of
                                                                                                  Freaks

                                                                                                  Here in this hopeless fucking hole we call LA
                                                                                                  The only way to fix it is to flush it all away.
                                                                                                  Any fucking time. Any fucking day.
                                                                                                  Learn to swim, I?ll see you down in Arizona bay.

                                                                                                  Some say a comet will fall from the sky.
                                                                                                  Followed by meteor showers and tidal waves.
                                                                                                  Followed by faultlines that cannot sit still.
                                                                                                  Followed by millions of dumbfounded dipshits.

                                                                                                  Some say the end is near.
                                                                                                  Some say we?ll see armageddon soon.
                                                                                                  I certainly hope we will cuz
                                                                                                  I sure could use a vacation from this

                                                                                                  Silly shit, stupid shit...

                                                                                                  One great big festering neon distraction,
                                                                                                  I?ve a suggestion to keep you all occupied.

                                                                                                  Learn to swim.

                                                                                                  Mom?s gonna fix it all soon.
                                                                                                  Mom?s comin? round to put it back the way it ought to be.

                                                                                                  Learn to swim.

                                                                                                  Fuck L Ron Hubbard and
                                                                                                  Fuck all his clones.
                                                                                                  Fuck all those gun-toting
                                                                                                  Hip gangster wannabes.

                                                                                                  Learn to swim.

                                                                                                  Fuck retro anything.
                                                                                                  Fuck your tattoos.
                                                                                                  Fuck all you junkies and
                                                                                                  Fuck your short memory.

                                                                                                  Learn to swim.

                                                                                                  Fuck smiley glad-hands
                                                                                                  With hidden agendas.
                                                                                                  Fuck these dysfunctional,
                                                                                                  Insecure actresses.

                                                                                                  Learn to swim.

                                                                                                  Cuz I?m praying for rain
                                                                                                  And I?m praying for tidal waves
                                                                                                  I wanna see the ground give way.
                                                                                                  I wanna watch it all go down.
                                                                                                  Mom please flush it all away.
                                                                                                  I wanna watch it go right in and down.
                                                                                                  I wanna watch it go right in.
                                                                                                  Watch you flush it all away.

                                                                                                  Time to bring it down again.
                                                                                                  Don?t just call me pessimist.
                                                                                                  Try and read between the lines.
                                                                                                  I can?t imagine why you wouldn?t
                                                                                                  Welcome any change, my friend.

                                                                                                  I wanna see it all come down.
                                                                                                  I love that song - just wanted to hear it again. :P

                                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                                  • Joe Citizen
                                                                                                    Confirmed User
                                                                                                    • Oct 2003
                                                                                                    • 4552

                                                                                                    #149
                                                                                                    Originally posted by Wolfy
                                                                                                    Yeah, I am white... that should be fairly apparent from my sig. My parents made and still make shit, I make more than both of them and one of my uncles combined.

                                                                                                    Is it hard to succeed? You're fucking right it is.

                                                                                                    Does that mean the opportunity is not there?

                                                                                                    For the record I know just as many blacks as whites who have come out of poverty in the exact same way I did. Hard work and a belief.
                                                                                                    Tell me were you parents supportive... or were they crack addicts who beat you and told you you were worthless?

                                                                                                    Were you encouraged to make something of your life or were you thrown out of the house at 13?

                                                                                                    Was your mother a prostitute?

                                                                                                    Was your dad a drug dealer or a thief?

                                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                                    • media
                                                                                                      Confirmed Moneymaker
                                                                                                      • Apr 2002
                                                                                                      • 9853

                                                                                                      #150
                                                                                                      Originally posted by BRISK
                                                                                                      Taxes might exist for good reasons, but whether they're being spent on good reasons is another story.
                                                                                                      I totally agree with this..

                                                                                                      In my opinion they should have something of a tax optimization form that you fill out that way your taxation dollars can goto what you specify they goto..

                                                                                                      For instantce, you get a 10 category selection of tax categories like schools, weapons, community funding, etc...

                                                                                                      You would have to pick a minimum of 5 items, and specify the % you want to goto each...

                                                                                                      That way you could customize what your money goes to.. so many people have so many beliefs it would probably spread it across the board to a good amount with correct priorities..

                                                                                                      Just my opinion though.. Could be idiocy..
                                                                                                      I'm here for the violence!

                                                                                                      Comment

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